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View Full Version : Will the forces be unbalanced?


lonepadawan
02-16-2002, 03:35 PM
In JK forces were unbalanced. Most Light jedi powers are stopped by seeing. Healing is useless in a saber duel. Absorb is about the only good power. I know. I just about always play light.
A darkie could have you imobilised and cut you down (And now slam you against a wall. Nock you off with a huge blast of force destruction, lightning you to death and instantly kill you with crates.
As yet not one light power has been unveiled to us. So once again I think the only way to win is to go dark.

JPMaximilian
02-16-2002, 03:44 PM
I think Raven looked at JK and is going to have balanced Multi-Player in JK2. In JK the light side is still pretty good, it is harder to master though, you can't just blow stuff up with brute force, but I think thats the idea behind the light side.

Eternity
02-16-2002, 03:51 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there any light and dark? I thought that there was just force powers this time around--no choosing.

Lord_FinnSon
02-16-2002, 03:53 PM
"I'll never turn to the dark side!" :luke: Few previews said that there will be some Force powers exclusively for MP, so I'm sure they include also light side powers which will make gameplay much more balanced.

lonepadawan
02-16-2002, 03:53 PM
I know. Like I said I alway play light. (For reasons of moral, which I know any elite person hates) but just about everyone else uses dark, and it gets very annoying to be gripped and slashed for the 40535252525252351234123123123 th time running. Now someone will come along and say I'm rubbish. Bet you any money you like.

StormHammer
02-16-2002, 04:14 PM
Didn't it say in a preview somewhere that you will be able to choose Light or Dark in MP play? If that is the case...then surely Raven have taken a good, hard look at how Dark and Light side force powers are balanced? I seem to recall mention in an interview that for every force power there is a counter-measure. How effective these will be is uncertain until we actually start playing the game...but considering it's importance in terms of gameplay, I would imagine it is one of the major focuses during play-testing.

I'm more worried about whether some of the Force-users will be unbalanced. :D

Dan12R
02-16-2002, 04:38 PM
If anything, I thought that the dark was the weaker side. After I became good with the light side, not many could take me down with dark powers. It does take more skill. It's not just, pull the trigger and watch them die. Force Absorb basically shut down all the dark powers and it protects you from having your weapon stripped from you. So while I'm holding my saber, I've got guys with guns who can't hang on to them. Once they have nothing but their saber, I back up and blast them with a concussion rifle or something. If they already have the saber, I just run, dropping seq. Charges until I get a good distance and blast them with once again, the concussion or the rail. Plus, while their force powers are useless, I've still got Blind, presuasion, and healing. Skill is key to the light powers and once someone becomes good with them, they can be deadlier than the dark.

lonepadawan
02-16-2002, 04:41 PM
But what about light saberists?

digl
02-17-2002, 06:14 PM
lonepadawan, you are not the first saying the game will be unbalanced
IMHO, saying this now doesnt make much sense at all. We dont know the 16 force powers (7 passive, 7 only available in mp)
without knowing all of the powers, and more important, how they work, we cant assume how the game will be.
Besides balancing gameplay is one of the most important things, so thinking that Raven wont work on game balance is thinking they wouldnt care for gameplay, which is in the end the most important point of a game

As yet not one light power has been unveiled to us. So once again I think the only way to win is to go dark.
heal, absorb and drain

This is contradictory, you say dark is better because they havent announced light powers?:confused:

JaG|Kaiser
02-17-2002, 06:23 PM
My guess is yes. But isn't it all pointless speculation at this point?

JR2000Z
02-17-2002, 06:25 PM
For me, obsorb is pretty useless. The odds of someone relying on dark force powers is slim compared to blasters/lightsabers.


Protection is usefull but its way over-rated.

Zodiac
02-17-2002, 06:53 PM
I think the forces will be more balanced. If they're not, you could then always just play no force lol. :D

OnlyOneCanoli
02-17-2002, 08:55 PM
Oh, please. The forces were very balanced in JK. You just needed to learn how to counter dark side forces. I hope JKII is just as balanced as its predecessor. But as of right now I can't see this being more than just speculation. But I have faith in the folks at Raven.

Redwing
02-17-2002, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by digl
heal, absorb and drain


Are you sure drain will be a Light power? It seems more of a Dark power to me...

digl
02-17-2002, 10:31 PM
Im not sure at all :o
I imagine it could be light, because the powers have been described as defensive light side and offensive dark side

Redwing
02-17-2002, 10:42 PM
Well...drain is kind of an "iffy" power. It steals your opponent's Force mana and adds to yours from it, which could fit either the leeching nature of the Dark Side, or the defensive nature of the Light Side.

Personally, I'm hoping it will be a Light power :D

digl
02-17-2002, 10:48 PM
or maybe a neutral one?

Redwing
02-17-2002, 10:55 PM
Hmmmm. Possible, but in JK all the "dramatic" powers were split between sides. Basic skills like run, jump, see and pull were neutral. Of course, just because that's how it was done in JK doesn't mean that's how it'll be done in JKII.

DeathBoLT
02-17-2002, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by lonepadawan
In JK forces were unbalanced. Most Light jedi powers are stopped by seeing. Healing is useless in a saber duel. Absorb is about the only good power. I know. I just about always play light.
A darkie could have you imobilised and cut you down (And now slam you against a wall. Nock you off with a huge blast of force destruction, lightning you to death and instantly kill you with crates.
As yet not one light power has been unveiled to us. So once again I think the only way to win is to go dark.

Well I'm pretty sure increased lethality of the lightsaber is going to aid in balancing the force.. between the bit about it being easier to hit someone with and saber throw(now only thing you need to do is close with them close enough to launch your saber) you're going to be alot more powerful when going agaisnt darkies, gunners, etc.

I worry about drain.. I suppose it depends how badly it leeches someone's powers and if how fast a ffer could have restored mana(it seems like it restores it pretty quickly but having no force just when you need it the most sucks hehe)

digl
02-17-2002, 11:21 PM
hmmm
how could drain be countered? or what will you need to drain someone? be very close to him? stay still?

and about mind trick...
will it be neutral in mp or light?
get invisible and grip somone would be a good combo
although we dont know how will sense (passive?) and seeing work

Moses
02-18-2002, 12:05 AM
Seeing is going to allow you to see through walls. I think that was on the audio chat.:)

digl
02-18-2002, 12:12 AM
I remember that, but I think that wont be the only way It will work
and besides we dont know exactly how this wall through looking will work

Moses
02-18-2002, 12:17 AM
Well it obviously can't be the same as in JK because there is no map to look at. I think that the walls will become semitransparent and you will be able to see through them. The more stars you allot, the farther away from you walls become transparent.

I agree with you though, I think there should be some sort of "Jedi is over to your left" signal or something. But on the other hand, just making the walls transparent and letting you look around would be sort of like "searching the area with the Force"

Belgirion
02-18-2002, 12:17 AM
there arent any 'definate' sides in JO. I think the forces will be more like MOTS where all force powers are available

digl
02-18-2002, 12:20 AM
Belgirion, there will be 'definate' sides
check the divisions of power column by Vagabond, search for it in the jediknightii.net news

remember there is the passive force sense
I have no clue of how this will work
there have been lots of ideas for it here, but no word from raven or lec about it yet

Moses
02-18-2002, 12:26 AM
Belgirion, there will be Light and Dark distinction in multiplayer, but you are right, in SP it will be like MoTS.

Digl, I'm really excited about the passive force powers. All I can think of at the moment is Sense. I think that is one of the things Raven is going to leave in as a suprise for us though. As far as I can remember, there hasn't been anything like that in a FPS game. Don't get me wrong, I haven't played every title by a long shot, but I haven't even heard of anything like Force Sense implemented into a FPS game before. It will be cool to see how it works.

The other things I think might be considered passive are deflecting lightsaber bolts back at the attacker (originally it said this would take a concious decision but we haven't heard any more of that in months), wall walking (we know it takes Force, but we don't know it's considered "passive"), and the lightsaber having "a mind of its own" during level 3 saber throw (though that's a long shot :D)

Obi
02-18-2002, 12:55 AM
<font color=cbcbff> I'm sorry, my friends, but if you say the force was perfectly balanced in JK, you don't know your stuff from the light perspective. I'm very good with the light side, I've played with it for 5 years. The dark side is quite overwhelming. Particularly overwhelming is grip and it's uncounterable ability to immobilize you(yes, even with absorb on). You can't just turn on speed and jump out of view. That almost never works, you end up hurting yourself, and due to lag and opponents who know how to turn toward you to avoid losing sight of you, that "strategy" is not very effective. If your opponent has force sight on, it's a very difficult battle to win.(And this is for lightsaberists. Don't assume that we can just "pull a conc and shoot him". I'm talking about lightsaber duels.

Spaceball_One
02-18-2002, 01:23 AM
id imagine that FORCE SEEING would be like the infamous WALL HACK in COUNTER-STRIKE. for those of you who don't know what that is, its pretty self expanitory... its a hack that allows cheaters to see their opponents through walls. i saw someone use it at a lan once and the way it looks is you can simply see opponents through walls... id imagine that FORCE SEEING would be made along those lines. theres another wall hack in CS where above each player, teammates included, was a bright colored line coming straight up out of their head, with a big point attached to it, and their name written next to it. i think it also had their distance underneath that, but you could see these line/point/name things all around you so you knew where someone was.

however, i personally hope that it isn't to that extreme, because if it was, SEEING would be nothing more than a JK version of the CS wallhack, and nothing but a dignified way of cheating. hopefully there will be some limitations, like you can only see through walls within a VERY small radius, or maybe the screen flashes very quick images of different places around the map (like a surveillance cam) so you can see where everyone is (like when you first get into a server on CS, only the time between each different location is very fast) i don't know... something cool and not just seeing through walls.

DeathBoLT
02-18-2002, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by Obi
<font color=cbcbff> I'm sorry, my friends, but if you say the force was perfectly balanced in JK, you don't know your stuff from the light perspective. </font>
Actually, when I play to win in tourneys, etc. I play as a lighty. I've gone agaisnt very good dark players, some of which were the upper upper crust of bgj ff sabers, and I can assure you, light is much easier to use, especially if you're good at nf sabers.

Redwing
02-18-2002, 04:09 AM
I agree. As a newbie at Jedi Knight (which I never really got past, since I got the game only last summer) I found it much easier to play the light side than the dark side. I mean, light side you can heal, vanish, absorb (and stop pull) and blind (with a nice long range compared to the infamous Grip)

I think the advantage of the Dark Side is its demoralizing factor on new or relatively new players. I mean, grip is easy to break with three of the four light powers---persuade drops the grip, blinding does it quite effectively with tiny mana loss, and absorb will just soak up the power into you, while you can pull out a gun and blast your attacker (who can't pull it) But players, I've seen, often just panic while being gripped, and don't even think about countering it. Thus we get a pretty big difference in opinion between hardcore players (who view the game more coldly and rationally, if you will) and casual players.

digl
02-18-2002, 12:42 PM
Moses, you are right about block, I think that is a confirmed passive power
I dont think the other you mention are passive powers tho

Spaceball, Iv never seen that CS hack, but I imagine It can be something like ASUS cheat drivers, I never tried them but Iv seen shots
Seeing will have limitations Im sure of that. Probably seeing through walls will be only possible in the higher seeing level, and will let you see a very small radius as you say, or maybe just through the wall you are aiming at