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grumpycrab
02-18-2002, 06:50 PM
Chaps - I'm going to flamed for this but I don't care. I think there is a big danger of JKII being over-hyped.

For starters JKI is in my top-5 best games of all time...so you know where my loyalties lie.

You are the experts so please tell me how it took Raven only 12 months to produce this game. There is a strong rumour that levels from old JK (and DF?) have been used in JKII. The question is what does "used" mean. Is it "ported", "copied" or what?

See the following link for details...
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/previews/previews_story.php?id=25154

The PCGamer (UK) review doesn't help. (See thread of same title). How the hell can they have reviewed the finished article?
Does anybody seriously think this game will appear in April. Add a couple of months at least.

I'm sure it will be good. But better than JKI? I reserve judgement at this time.
--
Grumps

dazilla
02-18-2002, 06:57 PM
Maybe you're right, but from what I've seen, I doubt it. I liked JK, but I've noticed that everything that I found wrong with JK they've improved on, and yet not removed anything that I liked about it...also, with graphics like that, even just an upgraded version of JK would be nice!

Uber_Saber
02-18-2002, 07:00 PM
What they did was incorporate a few techs of Raven's into a Q3 engine, and saved themselves a lot of trouble. ;)

As for that article, where did it say that levels were borrowed from DF and JK? They probably only resemble those levels in that there's a bit of search for the key sort of play.

And you can't believe everything you read. :D

Moses
02-18-2002, 07:00 PM
First of all, welcome to the forums! With any luck Stormhammer will give you your chocolate Jedi medallion anytime soon.

In relation to your post, I understand where you are coming from, but I don't agree. I've personally been watching this game since immediately after its announcement at E3 last year, and this whole time it hasn't seemed "rushed". The reason I think it took so little time to create was that the engine was already made. As you probably know if you've been listening to the posts or read up at all on JK2 it will be using a modified Quake 3 Team Arena engine. Since this was already created, that took a lot of time off development. True they modified it a tad, but modifications and starting from scratch are two totally different things. In regard to them using the same levels in JK2 as JK1, I think what that means is that adventures will take place in some of the same places. Most notably Nar Shaddaa. I think in the voice chat it said that you will see never before seen areas of this vertical city. So by "using same levels" I think it means we might see some of the same areas, but mostly new stuff on the same general location.

grumpycrab
02-18-2002, 07:02 PM
Hey I didn't get flamed! (I'm waiting...)

One good thing from the PCGamer review was that they said the game was "not too short". These days (MOHAA is a prime example), more than 10 hours gameplay is unusual. But did PCG actually play all the game (or all of what they reviewed...?)

--
Grumps

simon says
02-18-2002, 07:07 PM
We have no knowledge of how MUCH of the game they got to play, (am i wrong?), but we do know that it was a beta, even pre-beta copy, so some things were bound to be strange/seemingly wrong, bugs etc, so there is still room for improvement of any problems. I think they said that the game was 'not too short' not because they got to play it all, but because of the promised 24 levels.

grumpycrab
02-18-2002, 07:08 PM
"First of all, welcome to the forums! With any luck Stormhammer will give you your chocolate Jedi medallion anytime soon. "

Why thanks Moses, that's the most polite greeting I've had for months! (Sorry for this Off Topic rambling)
--
Grumps

Redwing
02-18-2002, 07:58 PM
Raven has not re-used JK levels. What they are doing is using locations that have been seen before (like Nar Shadda) but different parts of these locations. Listen to the XGR interview.

Also, like "simon says" pointed out, PC Gamer UK reviewed an early beta copy (over a month old), as confirmed to us by one of the Raven developers.

BTW, you're a grumpy crab.


;)

digl
02-18-2002, 08:21 PM
welcome grumpycrab

I agree Redwing
Saying they are reusing DF/JK levels is the most ridiculous thing Iv read in this forum

I understand what you mean about over hype though, just look at Ep I, but I cant understand why someone can believe that they are reusing levels, that just doesnt make sense, everyone would notice it inmediatly and the game would be killed by reviewers

[SWS]Strider
02-18-2002, 08:47 PM
Yah welcome Crab. Hope you enjoy your stay. We would never think of flaming you (until you get into our little trap, muhahhaah). No, really though. Welcome to the forums.

Strider

Eternity
02-18-2002, 09:02 PM
First off, do you want to be flamed, or something? I noticed the 'well, you guys are the experts' jibe, among other things. However, I think you would have to be dissapointed, cynic. In my experience, these forums are great, intelligent, and actually nice to noobies. :D


You are the experts so please tell me how it took Raven only 12 months to produce this game. There is a strong rumour that levels from old JK (and DF?) have been used in JKII. The question is what does "used" mean. Is it "ported", "copied" or what?

This isn't true. I think he might have picked this one up from someone saying a screenie looked a lot like a old level in JK1. It was a comment, and it's false. It might look a little like it, but it isn't it in any way.

the PCGamer (UK) review doesn't help. (See thread of same title). How the hell can they have reviewed the finished article?
Does anybody seriously think this game will appear in April. Add a couple of months at least.

Whoa, somebody is really trying to spread some discontent, or at least some attention with that one. :p I agree with you, but not on the fine details; the didn't finish the completed article, it was only a beta. To be even more specific, they complained as a major factor that enemy AI could be dispatched with a sabre throw to the back, which is now being worked on. I can't see why Raven would let PC GAMER review JK2 in the state it was at in the time. I am certain it would have gotten a higher score if they sent a 'gone gold' copy of the game.

Welcome to the forums, maaaan.

Wacky_Baccy
02-18-2002, 09:05 PM
Welcome to the forums, grumpycrab - make yourself at home, and enjoy your stay :)

In addition to the Choclate Jedi Medallion from StormHammer, you will also likely get an Official Lucasforums Welcome Giftbasket from Boba Rhett, when he stops by.

Back on topic, I agree with the others - Raven have used a lot of the technology that they developed for Elite Force and SoF2 in JKII, which has really cut down the development time - they aren't rushing things, believe me.

As to the levels being 'copied', I totally agree with Redwing - it's the locales that are being re-used, not the actual levels.

Sounds Risky
02-19-2002, 12:36 AM
Well I'm not worried about the game being over-hyped for me, I'm looking forward to Jet Set Radio Future more. I'll probably get Jedi Outcast within the first week because my friend wants to play multiplayer with me. Otherwise I could wait.

Omne
02-19-2002, 12:54 AM
JK II won't be overhyped. Well, it may be massively hyped up, but I'm confident it will meet the hype, and surpass my expectations.

Darth Lunatic
02-19-2002, 01:04 AM
Never have high expectations of anything, then you'll never be disappointed.

I think people who will be diasppointed with the game will be people who werent huge fans of the previous Jed Knight games.

Trick is to know what to expect, and i think i have a pretty good idea of the game will be like. So no amount of hype will change my point of view.

Moses
02-19-2002, 01:18 AM
On the same note, if you never have high expectations you will be an eternal pessemist and not very fun to be around.

Sounds Risky
02-19-2002, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Darth Lunatic
I think people who will be diasppointed with the game will be people who werent huge fans of the previous Jed Knight games.


Damn, I guess I won't like Jedi Outcast then . . .

Originally posted by Moses
On the same note, if you never have high expectations you will be an eternal pessemist and not very fun to be around.

Hey, I'm fun as hell to be around!

Hehe.

StephenG
02-19-2002, 01:56 AM
i think this game will appeal to young and old broods.

Darth Lunatic
02-19-2002, 02:58 AM
It is true, i am an eternal pessimist. Too many times have I had extremely high expectations of something and have been let down. Lesson is never have high expectations.

I didnt say you won't like it OCH, i just suggested that you (people like you) may be disappointed. That is of course if you believe all the hype you've heard. Building it up to be the most groundbreaking event for a long time. IT is a groundbreaking event for old fans of the games, but it's just another 1st/3rd person game for a lot of people.

Lt. Durden
02-19-2002, 03:05 AM
Dunno if you knew this, but Rogue Leader for the game cube was produced in under 10 months, and that's while creating an engine. When you have a bunch of dedicated guys being PAID to do this stuff, with an already existing engine, things go much smoother. I'm sure it will be out late march, early april.

Darth Lunatic
02-19-2002, 03:22 AM
Ok.....
:3headed:

Sounds Risky
02-19-2002, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by Darth Lunatic
it's just another 1st/3rd person game for a lot of people.

You're right. I'm sure it'll be fun, but it's no Halo, that's for sure.

Darth Lunatic
02-19-2002, 06:46 AM
Exactly.

GonkH8er
02-19-2002, 07:21 AM
Oh ye of little faith. :)

grumpycrab
02-19-2002, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Eternity
First off, do you want to be flamed, or something? I noticed the 'well, you guys are the experts' jibe...
A bit of paranoia here Eternity - you guys DO know more about the game than me. I've only picked up on the game since the PCZone (UK) magazine preview which talks about the reused levels. From your replies it looks like there's been a major misunderstanding of Graham Fuchs (Activision) comments about the level re-use.

One thing which annoys me (a bigger issue in the US than UK) is that PCGamer (UK) say "We only review finished games". This is quite obviously untrue. I guess if I just treat it as a PREVIEW then it makes life much easier.

As regards the release date, I was talking rubbish. I have no idea when the game will come out. But better when it is really finished with the minor problems sorted.

May the hype continue...
--
Grumps

Moses
02-19-2002, 11:42 AM
...and grumpycrab returns to the lightside! Welcome back my friend!:)

qtseng
02-19-2002, 01:19 PM
Those Raven guys are very talented with the Q3TA engine. They've been working with it for quite a while now.

I'm not surprised that JK2 took so little time.

StAtilXl
02-19-2002, 01:27 PM
When they talk about "reusing" lvls they mean locations i think...
like Nar Shadda etc from JK.

JaG|Kaiser
02-19-2002, 01:52 PM
Hype? Don't believe the hype!

I'm looking for a game that advances what JK brought to the table. I want MP that was just as fun as JK, but with the Q3 network setup, not the grabage that went on in JK. I want dedicated servers. I want the ability to change my lightsaber color.

StAtilXl
02-19-2002, 01:56 PM
yeah JK ran really laggy and still does even with every1 with DSL/CABLE
mostly because of zone lag...
im looking forward to less lag with the Q3ta way.

Sturmgewehr
02-19-2002, 02:27 PM
JK was even laggy on a LAN. QIII will be so much better.

Dan12R
02-19-2002, 03:42 PM
I don't know how this game could be over hyped. For me, this is THE game of the year. I'm not the biggest video game guy, but I loved JK. I'm ready for some more. I can't think of another FPS that I like. I've played quite a few but there's not one that I like like JK. With all of the new features and stuff, I can't wait until this game comes out.

sanpilou
02-19-2002, 04:10 PM
:rolleyes: ok, ill explain everything..........in video games, the thing that takes the most time to create is the 3d engine and codings.....for jk2, almost all of these were made, they just modified the Q3A engine and added some new codes for the saber. All that they needed to do was the levels and models, wich arent that long to make..........so before saying that jk2 might su***, think further than your nose.

Agen
02-19-2002, 06:23 PM
That's pretty damn right sanpilou. Welcome GrumpyCrap. Have a Newbie Spoon Replica Gift.




you guys DO know more about the game than me. I've only picked up on the game since the PCZone (UK) magazine preview which talks about the reused levels

I saw it on their forums that Graham Fuchs made a mistake in what he said. He Sincerely Regrets it....... :cool:

StarScrap
02-19-2002, 08:12 PM
...what locations do you guys think will be reused. We're pretty sure on Nar Shaddaa, but what about the other places? I don't think we'll see the Valley of the Jedi. Let's see, what were some others....hmm. There's the ever-famous miscelaneous refuling station, we can pretty much be assured of one of those. An ISD would probably be a good bet too. Anyway, opening it up...