View Full Version : What in the world?!
02-20-2002, 01:31 PM
I tried a landmass random map and with conquest and 200 max against computer on moderate...well, I keep losing to Tech 3 rushes...I recorded a game to see what the enemy was doing, and they spend like 10 minutes just building workers and getting food and carbon...and when their workers get to 30, they start making trooper recruits...I tried this and I got to tech 3 like 3 seconds after they did, and I had like 10 trooper recruits and 5 aa troops, and i get rushed to death, they come in and wipe out my stormtroopers and I don't even have a turret, so i quickly exit cause it's a waste of time and frustration when they come and blow the crap out of my command center...
I found that by rushing them asap, by seeking out their barracks and killing any trooper recruits that i could prolly win that way....
02-20-2002, 01:35 PM
So don't build the 5 AA troops. Build another 5 regular troops, for 15 total, and you'll probably stop his rush.
If you do exactly what he does, exactly as fast, it's mathematically impossible for him to beat you with a rush.
02-20-2002, 01:53 PM
Incidentally, what are you doing not having even a single turret, all the way into TL 3? The instant I enter TL 2, and I mean that instant, I immediately build a new worker, and turn him into a dedicated, permanent wall/turret builder, and start him working on that.
Don't worry about what the computer does. The computer's good at rushes but sucks at long-term, balanced economies. You don't need to match him unit-for-unit (and in fact, since you're a human, you probably can't be fast enough to do so). What you want to do is let him go his own way, and build up a nice, turret/wall based defense. Build two turrets in each "gap" between the trees/cliffs/etc, a little further apart than the size of a gate. Then put a gate in between and just "outside" them, and then a wall to finish off either side of the gate. Do this in all the gaps. Put a couple of troops there to backup the towers, but put most of your troops in the spots that don't have towers yet... shift your defenses this way until you are surrounded by gates, walls, and turret pairs (that can cover/support each other). Then distribute your forces along the most likely attack vectors evenly, until you see which way he is coming.
Even if he gets to T3 before you do... he can't blow away gates, walls, and towers, and your units, fast enough, to beat you... So instead of racing him, get a nice, solid econ going.
I often lose getting to T2 or T3 to the computer... but I almost always beat it to T4, because it wastes itself in a stupid series of attacks. Also, the computer doesn't upgrade its units and especially its workers, enough. If you do that, your workers will easily do as much as 2x as many workers for the computer -- meaning you can use all the "spare" units as military units, giving you a larger army and, therefore, ultimately a win.
To stop the T3 rush with troops, what I do is, while I'm waiting for T2 to develop in my CC (and therefore unable to build workers), I queue up 10 troopers (usually 4 of them mounted). Then during T2, I build 8 more, one of each of the 4 unit types... and maybe a couple more AA depending on who my enemy is. By the time I click "T3" I have 20 troops... and they all get upgraded long before T3. So any computer enemy who waited until T3 to attack me would face turrets, walls, and 20-25 military defense units... The computer can only field a force powerful enough to over-run that maybe once every 10 times I play.
02-20-2002, 04:45 PM
Well, i feel sorta cheap since i turret rushed...but who cares.
I played a random map landmass conquest on a 4 player size instead of 6 players...I was amazed to find myself starting with like 20 nerfs....which basically gave me control of when I teched..
I think I'll practice rushing for a bit, then when I get really good at rushing, i'll practice defending against rushes. or something like that. :D they surprised me by taking ALL their workers and taking out one of my turrets...
I won by putting my stormtroopers in front of their barracks and blasting everything that comes out. oh, also, i built mounted troopers, and they helped as well...i love this game. :D
02-20-2002, 07:14 PM
The near-infinite # of permutations you can use as a strategy, is one of the main strengths of this game.
02-20-2002, 07:54 PM
well, right now I have a feeling i'm going to win, I'm playing a landmass conquest vs wookiees...and we're separated by a 'bridge' or shore forgot the name of it. I massed like 4 turrets there, and put a shield generator, barracks, power core, and aa turrets. So far i survived like 3-4 waves. You're right about the trooper upgrades!! I thought i wouldn't survive 2 attacks, but i did, thanks to the troopers. Now I'm going to plant turrets along the coast so they'll probably end up using artillery...
02-20-2002, 10:22 PM
Do the research center upgrades too... they make towers really powerful and nasty.
In fact, in general, you want to do all the upgrades eventually. By the time I really go "at" the enemy, I usually have completed over 90% of the total possible researchable upgrades... There are a few I hardly ever get, either because they are for units I rarely use (like artillery) or because they are just things I never get, like the Bothan Spynet. But otherwise, I upgrade like crazy, and in a long, drawn-out game of attrition, that'll give you the win almost every time, because each of your units is pound-for-pound, better than the units of the guy who didn't do the upgrades.
And in general, the computer does not do enough upgrading.
02-21-2002, 08:33 AM
I like to build tower defenses, as well.
At level 2, I built the Jedi temple and war center. At level 3, I built the fortress near my tower blockade (it adds firepower and pumps out both bounty hunters and special troops) and the research center. I immediately use the research center to upgrade my towers and I use the war center to upgrade my troops a little.
Don't forget to place at least one trooper into each turret so that you get the double shot for that turret and still give that trooper extra protection.
Ways to protect against the long-distance cannons hitting your turrets:
1) Use some aircraft to specifically target the cannons, if you build an air base. The cannons usually aren't protected by AA.
2) Build some destroyer mechs specifically to run out and beat on cannons.
3) Upgrade your turrets to the point that they have the range to hit those cannons back.
02-21-2002, 09:53 AM
Ya, i always put at least 3 troopers in each turret. and what helps sometimes is by throwing a wall up in front of them, that way the mounted troopers will be wiped out before they reach the turrets. I think I might build a seaport so i can start patrolling the river. Maybe with some artillery ships.
02-21-2002, 11:20 AM
Well, I usually end up with 12 or so turrets, so if I put 3 troopers in each, I wouldn't have enough pop. to get the size invasion army I usually like :cool:
But yes, putting troops in towers and doing the things SirKai suggested are mostly good. Except, I don't think turrets can ever hit canons, even with full upgrades, if the canons sit out at maximum range. That's sort of the point of canons, isn't it? That nothing can hit from the range they can... which makes up for their slow movement and the packing/unpacking thing.
02-21-2002, 11:44 AM
In that one mission i lost to the gungans, i used air to take out their artillery. they rarely took aa troopers outside their base, and even when they did, 3/4 the time they didn't come with the artillery.
02-21-2002, 02:40 PM
I won! that was pretty easy...I pummel dropped 2 of their command centers, one of the command centers barely survived, like 120 hps, they built one near my base, i eventually built about 10-15 upgraded atpts and 4-5 atst prototypes, and since they kept harrassing me with air, i built about 20 at-aas. I went in, took control of the place near my base, built 2 aa turrets close to my turrets, just in front where the air kept coming, and then I moved all my units, the atpts, atst prototypes, and ataas, and stopped a distance from their command center outside their wall, and i got out 2 pummels, took that base apart, went for their wall, took it down, brought my strike force behind them, had the pummels take out the command center, while my strike force provided cover, then i took my worker, put a fortress in place of their command center, and a command center of my own right next to it, pumped out about 10 dark trooper phase 2, and took the pummels destroyed their turrets, and my strike force took out everything that got thrown at the fortress, and the enemy resigned! game lasted 4 hours.
02-28-2002, 08:55 AM
The best stragies is to attack the computer as earliest as you can. Just build sufficients defense until you can get up to 5 or 6 pummels and then have 3 or 4 Jedi or Sith and then build just 5 anti air troops. then build 4 transport then load all those units up. Now do a recon on your enemy base. If he has Anti air defense then a change of plans.
Build a couple of fighters to stay in front of the transport. Then go. Have the fighters go first to bear the blunt of the anti air turrents while your transport drops and then you got the game beat. Nothing can beat a fully upgraded plummels.
If he has no air defense in the back and you can sneak back there then do that instead. I done it so many times that it is not even funny anymore. People tends to build up defense the line that is facing your base and they never think about the back. hehehehe they say that was not fair and I just say "Sucks to be you" hehehehe :p :p :)
02-28-2002, 11:33 AM
Well, if they are used to playing against the computer I can see only putting defenses on the main attack vectors, because in most games, the computer picks one path to you and obsesses on it. I have on occasion been surprised (and smacked) by the computer going around and finding a back door, but that happens maybe once ever 7 or 8 times I play, at most. Thus the computer can lull you into a "lazy" defense if you are not careful (after some back-defense devastations, I have just taken to making sure my entire base is surrounded and defended, now, and so that doesn't happen any more).
Your strategy is certainly workable (pummels going around behind his base) and I have used it on occasion. But I like to vary what I do, just because I get bored always using the same strat.
03-01-2002, 09:43 PM
Do what I did when I was wookies(randomed to it). I attacked a naboo computer(on easy) with like 20-30 troopers and 2 jedi knights and 2 artillery. He attacked with a few fighters, and boy that pissed me off cuz I almost lost a trooper or 2(keyword: almost cuz I get raged otu when they do that unfairness to me). So I build 2 anti-air mobiles real quick(they're the best cuz they have 125 hp,practically invincible against fighters) and sent a few workers to build an anti-air turret right by his airbase(that's the unfairness I do). Then I moved through his base with my troopers,jedi,and AA mobiles and a turret or 2(to stop roaming enemy workers on his little peninsula). Then I sent in 6 fighters from an airbase to his base and destroyed like almost all of his fighters(again I use the unfairness on them). After a while of raping(in other words:utterly destroying) his base,he surrendered, even though I would've won the battle soon anways. So maybe that would work. Just be unfair and a really 'lame' player as some might say. BTW I always do that(a turret or 2 in his base followed either by the big attack force,usually of mechs but for wookies I used their strength, or else the villager destroying fighters. Usually both). Maybe that would work. Since I know you use Empire a lot (judging by awesome screenshot in his sig) the trooper attack would do fine. And oh yeah, Jedi don't stand a chance against those 30 troopers firing at once hehe :D
03-20-2002, 01:42 AM
if you realley want to survive the early ai rushes take advantage of its stupidity if u have like 3 to 4 troopers send them in the middle of the map so when he rushes his guys will just keep walking to your bas and buyt the time he reaches your your 4 troopers knocked out like 5 of them so he gets slaugterd when he attacks you.:ewok:
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