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SELYA
02-22-2002, 12:47 PM
Hi guys....I've just watched the teaser ~30 times...and theres a moment when Kyle fights some kinda jedi in the place where Vader and Luke fought in 5th ep.......The enemy throws the saber at Kyle and he blocks it....So....What happends after? Is the saber destroyed or does it go back to the owner? There is some kinda blast....so i wondered what could it mean...Remember 1st episode? Ob1 destroyed one part of the Maul's saber....

Agen
02-22-2002, 12:57 PM
Well i think that's a perfect idea but not in the way you are thinking. when someone blocks the thrown saber it gets blocked and the owner uses the force to get it back. Oh yeh, Obi got maul's saber into cos' he put it through the middle (handle).
But it would be great if you were in an intense fight and you were lightning them and then you foirce pushed them(just an example. ithink they should drop their saber and it would be handy if u could stamp on it. Of course when u respawn it comes back :)

Belgirion
02-22-2002, 03:59 PM
also boc crushed kyles lightsaber with a rock in JK

Emon
02-22-2002, 04:42 PM
Actually, the saber isn't gone or destroyed. If you look closer, you'll notice it does infact retract to it's onwer. It's hard to see because of the glow panels on the floor and the smoke from the hit, but it's there.

simon says
02-22-2002, 05:06 PM
I think they won't have destructible sabers, or they'd have to make all weapons destructible. But I think that after u throw ur saber and someone blocks it, it shouldn't come back to your hand automatically. Ud have to use force pull or just pick it up.

Sturmgewehr
02-22-2002, 05:36 PM
I think the way it will be is if you block someone saber throw, it will still come back to them. I think I remember reading that if you Force Push someone's saber throw, then they'll have to pick it up themselves or force pull it back.

oki-wan
02-22-2002, 05:46 PM
remember that force saberthrow is basically an active forcepower, and as such, you always control the force while using it

(how do lightsabers work btw? i doubt it's possible to activate it and just lay it on the table for a while.. does it require some sort of connection to the force?)

anyway, the way i see it you don't just activate the saber and throw it (this is a very controlled throw, not affected by gravity etc), and since you're always controlling it, you also have the means to pull it back automatically

Agen
02-22-2002, 06:05 PM
Good points, but i can't get in from IE5 i'm in netscape and seeing java and html everywhere so bear with me.

simon says
02-22-2002, 06:11 PM
You don't need force to use a saber. It's just a battery and some lenses and a crystal or something. Han uses Luke's in TESB.

oki-wan
02-23-2002, 02:44 PM
activate the saber, drop it blade-down on the floor and watch it fall? :D

Pedro The Hutt
02-23-2002, 09:22 PM
(I don't think that will happen since the hilt is a bit wider than the blade, so the hilt will keep it from falling to the centre of the planet)
And my opinion.. about the destructable saber's thing.. well it wouldn't be quite fair to cut someone's saber in half just because he lobbed it at you. And if you're going to make them destructable then they'd have to be destructable at all times, including when their owner is holding them.. but that would require some precise hitting.. and you'd cut their hand of along with the hilt anyways ^.^ So I just think that for the sake of keeping things fair that sabers should be indestructable. (especially concidering it's practically the only weapon I use in regular JK, just ask Oninosensi he'll agree on that lol)

MikeC
02-23-2002, 09:48 PM
Have you played Mysteries of the Sith? It has Force Saber Throw in it.

The way it worked in MotS is the saber would automatically return to you after you through it (don't gripe about how that's not realistic, it's just got force pull stuck in there with it automatically).

If you read the EU books, you don't have to have the force to use a lightsaber. I think somebody already mentioned Han using Luke's saber in ESB. What the books describe is using the force is required to make a lightsaber. It also talks about a bond between a saber and its maker so a person using their own saber has an edge over somebody using one they didn't make.

Syko
02-23-2002, 09:55 PM
Yeah, there are some other questions I've always had about sabers and their use. First, why is it that the FIRST time someone draws their saber, the blade comes out slowly and all dramatic-like. After this, they can hit the button and have it immediately out. Hmm... Second: is there some connection between the user and the saber? Because whenever someone dies, their saber turns off... (except in the Phantom Menace game but oh well.)

-Syko

Pedro The Hutt
02-23-2002, 10:02 PM
Well usually a saber comes out slowly, but in the films it isn't always like that for special effect limitations and stuff ^.^
Well you could say there is a connection, but that's more like what MikeC said about a Jedi using a saber he made himself having an advantage over someone using a "borrowed saber" (which makes sense, they made it themselves and have customised it entirely to their needs.. compare it a bit to a swordsman forging his own sword out of raw iron... he makes it to fit his own needs and what he looks for in a weapon, and also that when you've been using the same weapon for a long time you grow used to it.. a bit like me feeling a bit alienated from a game when I have to use a joypad/keyboard that isn't the one I'm used to) But anyways no, it's not that the saber goes out because the user dies, it's because the user lets go of the activation button.. well there are sabers that use an on/off switch instead.. so those would stay activated even if the user drops it.

Cox
02-24-2002, 11:17 AM
I was wondering if in mp u will be able to ccustimize, not only ur blabe color. but also ur handle. So not everyone in the world playin jk2 will have the exact same light saber......

CaptainRAVE
02-24-2002, 11:19 AM
Thats a common question. We're not expecting to be able to customize the handles though :(.......but im sure there will be many mods for different handles ;)

Thrawn
02-24-2002, 12:32 PM
All lightsabers have a special crystal in them, where they draw their power from. They're activated when the user puts his finger on the activation button. If one jedi is struck down, the saber will turn off because they aren't holding the button down anymore. Also, there is an option to lock the saber in "on" mode, where it will stay on no matter what.

CaptainRAVE
02-24-2002, 12:37 PM
....like we saw in the trailer when one of the reborn was killed. The lightsaber stayed on while it was on the ground....it probably would shut off, but the movie didnt show the scene long enoguh :(

Pipe Smoke
02-24-2002, 01:03 PM
Saber throw was lame in MOTS, it'll probably be lame in Outcast... unfortunate that they're including it.

Really unfortunate.

But the game will still be the bomb.

Just another stupid move for people to try on me and fail, and I'll still be using good old fashioned normal saber skills to take them all out, just like I did in JK.

As for the trailer, you guys talking about the PC Gamer UK disc one? is that on any discs for PC Gamer US? if so what edition? if not, where can a person find that video?

lonepadawan
02-24-2002, 01:30 PM
Umm no saber throw in this game will not be lame newbie it's incredibly fast, controlable in mid-air and is secondary attack for the saber.
No you don't need force to use the saber but there is a passive power, the more stars or power on it, the better you block, swing and throw.

Corship
02-24-2002, 02:53 PM
Saber Throw lame???

Of course its lame if you throw it at an opponent directly facing you. I think the saber throw will be useful if you are out of force power, or if your enemy is preoccupied i.e. he/she is fighting another jedi, or is trying to jump/run away from you.
Also im sure the throw will have many uses in SP, and does look cool. :cool:

Personally I hope that the saber will be indestructible and will always return to its owner, lets not make the gameplay to complex/slow, its a FPS not a RPG. Besides control of the saber should be second nature to a jedi, even a untrained Luke could retract his saber in the ice cave.

CaptainRAVE
02-24-2002, 03:22 PM
LAME!!!!!!! If you read about how it worked you reallllllllllyyyy wouldnt call it lame ;)

xwing guy
02-24-2002, 03:40 PM
No you don't need force to use the saber but there is a passive power, the more stars or power on it, the better you block, swing and throw.

You don't use force stars in JK2.

Saber throw was lame in MOTS, it'll probably be lame in Outcast... unfortunate that they're including it.

You obviously haven't played MotS with SBX v. 3.0, the saber throw is cool then and it can be controled.

CaptainRAVE
02-24-2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by Pipe Smoke
Saber throw was lame in MOTS, it'll probably be lame in Outcast... unfortunate that they're including it.


After this post tell me if you still think throw is going to be lame....
At the 1st level of power it will just function like in MOTS
At the 2nd level it will be controllable in mid air
At the 3rd level it will seek out enemies by it self
Also it can get knocked out of the air and will sometimes need to be force pulled back to the user. It will also look cool because of the graphics.

After reading this you can understand how it will be one of the coolest force powers :D

Moses
02-24-2002, 03:49 PM
Just for the record, in one of the books (the one where the Solo kids were kidnapped) a dark Jedi has a saber that must be turned on using the Force. Therefore only force users can use that lightsaber, but for the most part there is a button which must be held to keep it on and a switch which keeps it on until switched off.

CaptainRAVE
02-24-2002, 03:51 PM
Which book was that?? I can remember the lightsaber, but not the book. Its been a while since I read all the books.

Obi
02-24-2002, 04:14 PM
<font color=cbcbff>

<b>The reason for the dramatically slow ignition in some scenes?</b>

Anakin's lightsaber, Obi-Wan's ANH lightsaber and Luke's RotJ lightsaber all have an "activation matrix" as opposed to a on/off switch. The activation matrix is like a sensor strip as opposed to a button. When they slide their thumbs along the strip, it ignites the lightsaber. The slow ignition in some scenes(for example Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader in the death star) vs the extremely quick ignition in others (for example Luke on the second death star when he "lowers his defenses" and is forced to defend himself quickly when attacked by Vader) is probably due to the speed at which they use their activation matrices.

<b>Why does the lightsaber turn off when it leaves it's user's hand?
</b>

This actually doesn't have anything to do with holding down the button or using the force. It is a safety measure that some(but not all) jedi install into their handles called a "deadman" switch. Obviously, when the saber leaves it's user's hand, it is uncontrolled and dangerous to things around it. For this reason, the deadman switch was developed to turn the lightsaber off when it leaves it's user's hand. The switch is a sensor in the handle of the saber that through heat or pressure or other means is able to detect when it is being held and when it is not. Most lightsabers with this option(for example Luke's lightsaber from RotJ) have switches with which they can lock the lightsaber on. This is convienient for Luke because he likes to throw his all the time. With it locked on, it won't turn off while it is in flight.

Pipe Smoke
02-24-2002, 04:28 PM
newbie eh?

Well to these boards perhaps. I'm not going to shed any tears over that distinction though.

But a newbie where it counts? in the game? or the community at large? not by a long freaking shot.

Ok, you guys are happy about the saber throw, I am nothing worse than basically apathetic toward it... so, we're fine. It *was* lame in MOTS, I know that much. I think the fundamental concept of throwing a saber is lame from the core, but since I won't be using the power... it's no skin off my back. My (dying) opponents are more than welcome to use any and all means they can come up with to attempt to stave off their incoming demise... all but the most ridiculous hacks have never proven very effective in this so I'm certainly not concerned about someone tossing their saber at me.

Now what I'm wondering is, how of all those responses why not a single link to that video? :) I mean, if you want to convince me that saber throw is the bomb... that'd probably be a good way to do it :D

(btw, some of you need to quit taking me so seriously, i'm just fooling around with all the self-agrandizement)

TarlSS
02-24-2002, 11:52 PM
Well...really, There wouldn't be much of a conceivable reason to throw your lightsaber in a fight, unless you were desperate or something. Without your saber, you have no weapon in hand, and as well cannot block shots, or other sabers. I mean, the only instance I recall a saber being thrown in Star Wars is when Vader threw it to cut down the bridge Luke was on in ROTJ. It's as logical as throwing a sword. You could do it, but there isn't much reason too, as it leaves you quite vunerable

lonepadawan
02-25-2002, 08:27 AM
Pipe Smoke- you really reckon your "It" don't you?
Saber fighting isn't going to be run-slash-hack. Have you played the game yet? Do you know your going to be the best?
Killing your huge ego may be even more difficult than killing you.

Pedro The Hutt
02-25-2002, 08:54 AM
Naw, killing him in JK/JO will also kill his ego, so they're equally as hard ^^"

The Truthful Liar
02-25-2002, 10:02 AM
lonepadawan:

[quote]Pipe Smoke- you really reckon your "It" don't you?
Saber fighting isn't going to be run-slash-hack. Have you played the game yet? Do you know your going to be the best?
Killing your huge ego may be even more difficult than killing you.[quote]

LOL :D

I think we're getting alittle 'off' subject here though, aren't we?? :p


I propose JK2 Will be great - Nuff said

Cheers ;)

The Truthful Liar
02-25-2002, 10:06 AM
I messed up on the quote thingy....

oh well :D

Pipe Smoke
02-26-2002, 12:23 AM
You want the real truth?

Yes.

Yes, I do think I am the greatest Jedi Knight player to ever live.

And my brother is the second greatest.

Or we were... and we shall be again. I promise you.

Making the saber combat more complex in JO will only give me more opportunities to display my unbelievable skill. Just you wait and see.

Sturmgewehr
02-26-2002, 12:52 AM
AB_Legion, you just forgot a / in the last part of the quote. The second guote thing should be [/quote]. :)

The saber throw in JKII should be significantly better than MotS. So much so that a comparison between the two would be useless. I think anyways...

Pipe Smoke, you're such a kidder. :p

lonepadawan
02-26-2002, 12:48 PM
at least we HOPE he's kidding....

[SWS]Strider
02-26-2002, 01:16 PM
IMO there will always be somone that can beat you. Never get to cocky. Better to be deadly and no one know it. Then to be claim to be deadly and eveyone know your not. Let other people make the descions. Trust me, hearing somones good from another person is much more impressive than the person telling me that themselves. So Pipe Smoke, I have no doubt you will be a great saberist, just be careful what you claim.

Pipe Smoke
02-26-2002, 06:49 PM
Well Strider, normally that would be a good common sense bit of advice...

but I'm afraid my skill is so incredible as to make even me unable to deny it.

Sorry :)

So, into the LOTR movies eh? what sites for them do you visit?

[SWS]Strider
02-26-2002, 06:59 PM
Hehe we will see. LOTR is a good series. I read the books and loved them long before I knew about the movies. I normally visit theonering.net and that's about it.

lonepadawan
02-27-2002, 12:27 PM
LOTR rocks- They did a really good job with the films and now I'm just waiting for the JK TC to come out.

sullen
02-27-2002, 03:33 PM
There is a lot of theory on Lightsabers floating on the next, the first is actual construction, the second deals with the physical properties of the blade itself.

Building a lightsaber, or in fact wielding it, does not require the force. Indeed, saying so is alot like saying only a Marine can wield an m-16. They may be extremely adept at using one, but they are not the only ones with providence over the equipment. Neither does the weapon make the Marine(try telling a Marine that he/she's nothing without the gun).

A lightsaber, in a basic form, consists of the handle(duh) a power cell(the provider of energy) power conduit.... the focusing crystal(s)[there can be up to three in individual lightsabers, the ones with multiple crystals can actually adjust their length(think Darth Vader)], and a lens assembly, which bends the beam of light into itself giving the end of the lightsaber a "rounded" look. The beam of light isn't hot; it mearly moves the particles around it at a super-fast rate of motion. This is evident when Qui-gon jams his lightsaber into the blast door... The lightsaber isn't melting the door, it's melting itself.

what does all this mean? If you dropped a lightsaber "straight down" the ground would eventually swallow it. Why are Jedi adept at wielding a lightsaber? The blade has no weight. Try swinging your hair brush....Easy right? what about stoping it? imagine a three foot blade comeing out the end... without the force, without the "instict" it's all too easy to cut your own arm off.

I know, too much information, but hey, I think that the lightsaber, and the qualities they represent, is the single most interesting piece of technology in the SW universe.

MrRelish
02-27-2002, 05:39 PM
Well, technically, it does have weight. Minimal weight, but weight. Just like the light saber is NOT made out of light. If ya look closely, you'll notice the lightsaber deflects light. Can light deflect light? no. it can't. Therefore, it's not light. it's called a LIGHT saber because it EMITS light. That is why it should cast a shadow (that is for the raven guys, if it's not too late to put saber shadows into the game). The blade has to have weight, it'd be impossible to use without it. Ever try holding a hairbrush and pretending there is a sword coming out of it? it's impossible to feel. One needs feedback to know how one is using a weapon, without it one is useless. Proof is in the jedi activites, notice many jedi spinning their lightsaber by the handle, near the blade end. Try that with a hairbrush, notice how you can't spin nothing? Thats why it's like that. The blade itself has some mass to it, even if not much. Thats all my rambling on the topic, thanks a bundle.

Lord_FinnSon
02-27-2002, 06:09 PM
Can light deflect light? no. it can't. Therefore, it's not light. it's called a LIGHT saber because it EMITS light. That is why it should cast a shadow (that is for the raven guys, if it's not too late to put saber shadows into the game).
We have gone through this discussion earlier and ChangKhan(one of the "Raven guys") gave quite good explanation why sabers don't cast shadows. You can read it right here (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30772&perpage=40&pagenumber=2)

Pipe Smoke
02-27-2002, 08:28 PM
theonering.net? excellent! that is what I wanted to hear.

That's where I'm from, been with the site for like 3 years now.

FOTR was awesome, so shall be Episode 2 and 3... and TTT and ROTK, both series are the bomb.

I hope EA's FOTR game comes to PC as I've heard, it looks like it might be pretty cool.

I am so incredibly glad JK2 is being made, JK1 was one of my favorite games of all time, I have such incredibly fond memories of it especially the multiplayer... even if it was chalk full of hackers.

And I mean *bad* hackers.

Anyone remember the fully-automatic unlimited-ammo concussion rifle? with increased power to boot? or the "fade to black" hack where they made you die over and over for eternity?

Sheesh.

I haven't ever seen such outlandish hacks in any other game.

But it remains some of my fondest memories.

So, naturally I was on the look out for it's successor. When I first heard about Obi-Wan I thought that might be the one, but my interest dropped pretty quickly, and the consoles can have that stinker... I don't care.

So then I was in despair but I found out about New Legends, and it was having trouble getting a publisher. But then it got one and I was like "YES!!! Justin Chin!!! this is the true spiritual successor to JK even if it has regular swords rather than lightsabers!!"

And I was seriously pumped for it.

Then X-Box evilness consumed it.

And once again I was in despair.

Then Raven, my long time favorite company... ever since I found Heretic back in the day, took up the torch and looks to be making a game that will be worthy to the original in every conceivable way! and better it in many respects!

I just hope the multiplayer can match the feel, I think the single player is going to be leaps and bounds better, but I hope the physics and the pace at which you run and stuff, and just the feel of the levels and such... match JK1 fairly well, and don't feel like Quake 3.

Quake 3's engine has lead to a lot of great games, but the game itself sucked.

I did love Quake 1 and 2 though, 1 especially.

Well anyway, I couldn't be happier about how things have gone, even if I do still lament the loss of New Legends.

Raven, thank you so much for not caving to the evil console crap, although feel free to port or do symeltaneous releases for those stupid things if it pays the bills, at some point in the future... just don't stop doing PC versions, and don't let the PC version's quality suffer for the other being made.

And also thanks for always responding to my e-mails over the years, even if not so much nowadays as back then.

Well there you have a big long babble from me, for no apparent reason. I'll end it by once again stating that I am going to be the saber master :) I always used the Jerec skin, I wonder what I'll use now... maybe just good old Kyle.

Naphtali
02-28-2002, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by CaptainRAVE
Which book was that?? I can remember the lightsaber, but not the book. Its been a while since I read all the books.

Its already proven that you dont have to be a force user to activate the lightsaber, forget the books when done wrong they mess themselves up. The ESB han solo.

Aslo rave i think he meant that the person use the force to activate the swicth fipping or pressing the button.

MrRelish
02-28-2002, 08:19 PM
Well, this is pretty pointless, since light sabers really don't exist, but I think everyone should check out :

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

That has a GREAT amount of information. Even though it's all speculation, it makes a lot of sense. Check it out gang.

That is all.