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Indy4
02-22-2002, 10:46 PM
how will glass interact with the surroundings?

SEYA

Syko
02-22-2002, 11:53 PM
How do you mean? usually it just breaks when you shoot it or something, and it's transparent. i'm not sure if i understand the question...

Brick
02-23-2002, 12:09 AM
I doubt we'll see much breaking glass in the game. Star Wars glass is actually transparasteel. Not much shattering involved there.

Cyclone
02-23-2002, 12:09 AM
It all depends on how the mapper creates the map. A pane of glass can either be as indestructable as a stone wall, or very fragile. Usually they are created as entities in the map. If health is assigned to the entitiy, then enough damage has to be applied to that glass inorder for it to break. Its that same thing that would be done to create a breakable box or crate.

So how will glass be handled? Any way the mapper wants is how. The engine is flexible.

Cyclone

Darth Lunatic
02-23-2002, 12:14 AM
What Brick said.

Brick
02-23-2002, 12:30 AM
Good answer, Darth Lunatic. In fact, just the other day I was thinking to myself, "That Darth Lunatic is one hell of a smart fella."

Really. I was.

Darth Lunatic
02-23-2002, 01:03 AM
LOL

Pogwaffle
02-23-2002, 01:56 AM
What a lightsaber do to glass ???

Brick
02-23-2002, 02:05 AM
Realistically, it would probably melt it.

I should also counterpoint myself by noting that in ESB, Vader broke glass when he was using the Force to throw stuff at Luke.

CaptainRAVE
02-23-2002, 06:14 AM
Actually the glass will be breakable. It was one of the first thing Raven said after the E3 demo that things like glass etc would be breakable. There are many more things that can be interacted with also.

MikeC
02-23-2002, 12:12 PM
There was breakable glass throughout Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith. It's an adjoined surface with a cog attached. Really easy to do.

I assume JO will have the same thing (however the new engine will handle it).

T-Dogg
02-23-2002, 12:57 PM
As far as I know, the Quake III engine didn't originally support beaking glass, but Raven added the feature for SOF 2 and now for Jedi Outcast. You can see glass breaking in one of the early screenshots (Kyle force-pushes a stormtrooper through it).

CaptainRAVE
02-23-2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Brick
I doubt we'll see much breaking glass in the game. Star Wars glass is actually transparasteel. Not much shattering involved there.

Well that was a big argument when Raven announced some of the features along with the announcement of JK2. But it looks like they've gone and done it anyway :p

StormHammer
02-23-2002, 08:10 PM
Yeah...in the early E3 footage (Videogamegal.com) they showed off lots of breaking glass. I don't think all things transparent in the Star Wars universe are necessarily transparisteel, either. On Bespin in ESB during the Vader/Luke duel that big window just shatters when hit by flying debris...not much like transparisteel, IMHO. :)

As for the lightsaber just melting glass...well, maybe if it was moving slowly enough. But a lightsaber is also somewhat solid...and I reckon any solid or semi-solid object moving at speed against a pane of glass is going to shatter it...superheated or not.

I doubt we'll be able to just melt holes (that stay) in the glass we come across in the game, at any rate. That's getting into GeoMod territory... ;)

Brick
02-23-2002, 10:26 PM
Not to sound argumentive, StormHammer, but I think that the intense heat of a lightsaber would melt through the glass before it had a chance to break, just like it melts through walls. It's a beam of intense energy, not a club.

Anyhoo, I figure that since Vader broke the glass in ESB, not all glass in SW is transparisteel. I actually can't rememer if transparisteel was actually something in the movies or something made up in the EU. Whatever the answer, I'm sure that the breaking glass in JO will fit in just fine.

Lightlance
02-23-2002, 10:39 PM
Quote: Not to sound argumentive, StormHammer, but I think that the intense heat of a lightsaber would melt through the glass before it had a chance to break, just like it melts through walls. It's a beam of intense energy, not a club.

Actually a lightsaber blade isnt meant to give off any heat atall, it is pure energy and in the same way you dont get heat from a battery you shouldnt get heat from a lightsaber, the only biproduct of the energy is the light it emmits. Not exactly sure where i got read this but im pretty sure its the accepted theory.
:)
The fact it melted through a wall in episode one was either due to some kind of manipulation of the force, or an inconsistency with the other starwars material.

Bio Warrior
02-23-2002, 10:55 PM
or it could have been friction

StormHammer
02-23-2002, 11:16 PM
Or it could have been a Monster of the Id...

I thought Forbidden Planet the moment I saw that scene... :rolleyes:

Brick...hey, I have no problem if you disagree with my opinion. It's just an observation...a possibility...and it's not set in concrete. :D The fact is...nobody really knows...because it's Science Fiction... ;)

TheBlueFlamingo
02-23-2002, 11:17 PM
what about thoes screen map thingies? theones in the controll rooms. They hava already shown pics of them broke, and i just assumed that they were glass, at the start of ESB on hoth when Leia is talking to someone aobut luke or han i dont remember they are looking at thoes things. So i assume that they are glass and they are breakable, they have already shown screens. SO maybe there is transparasteal and glass, two diffrent things in the SW universe similar physical properties diffrent chemical properties.

TheBlueFlamingo
02-23-2002, 11:20 PM
Also, i thought light sabers were just that, light, and light gives off heat so thats why i thought they melted stuff because they are bright and give off a lot of heat. but if it gave off to much heat you probably wouldnt be able to be around it too much, might get a tan.I dont know, just a thought.

Brick
02-23-2002, 11:45 PM
The only biproduct is the light? :eyeraise: If that was true, the lightsaber would just be a really hard glow rod. I sincerely doubt that it was created just to help land planes.

The "heat" is part of what makes it a dangerous weapon. If it was just more dense than any physical material, then it would require that the user be amazingly strong, stronger than even the Force could make him, so cut through something like a blast door. And frankly, what George Lucas says goes! If Qui-Gon used the lightsaber to cut through the blast door in Ep1, then it wasn't the Force that heated the lightsaber, it was the heat from the lightsaber itself. It's what makes it dangerous. :slsaber:

Ah, yes, and if I remember correctly, Maul's lightsaber left a scorch mark when it came out of Qui-Gon's back.

There is really no right answer, short of getting an exclusive interview with George Lucas, during which he'd probably tell us all to get a life.

Whoops, I'm getting further and further off topic... Would I do that :naughty:

Um... LOOK! A THREE-HEADED MONKEY! :3headed: *Brick flees in terror from encroaching shadow of moderators*

JR2000Z
02-24-2002, 12:06 AM
Well, if blaster fire is hot, wouldn't it also burn trough the glass?

Brick
02-24-2002, 12:29 AM
JR2000Z: Yup. It should in reality, anyway. We don't get to see this in games often, and it confuses people because of that.

StormHammer: You replied while I was typing up my last reply, so I didn't get to reply to you... the second time, anyway (you follow that? Me neither...) I wouldn't worry to much about ol' Brick... I've never been involved in a forum argument or flame war, beyond shutting them down in the forums I moderate. I like an occasional friendly debate, though. It gets me excited, and I really get into my posts. I understand perfectly about accepting that you simply don't agree with someone's opinion. I also believe that it can be productive to exchange information ;)

Chanke4252
02-24-2002, 06:21 AM
Well, since heat and light pretty much go hand in hand then a lightsaber should give off heat. But maybe its magic jedi heat or maybe they wear alot of sun screen or heat resistant clothing? I dont know, but I do know this......LIGHTSABERS ARENT REAL, therefore it isnt very constructive talking about their actual physics. If everything in starwars had a legitimate scientific explanation then im sure that by now we would have to pass laws to ban lightsabers from schools. COME ON PEOPLE IT ISNT REAL!!!!

Qel
02-24-2002, 06:28 AM
Didn't anyone here ever play RTCW...that had breakable glass!!!

Qel

Lightlance
02-24-2002, 09:22 AM
Quote: The only biproduct is the light? If that was true, the lightsaber would just be a really hard glow rod.

No your missing the point, it is still energy, not just a hard rod it is a massless vortex of energy that when comes in contact with physical objects excites the molecules thus giving the cutting effect.

Quote: The "heat" is part of what makes it a dangerous weapon. If it was just more dense than any physical material,

It isnt dense atall its massless ie weightless, this is what makes it so dangerous to an untrained user.

If you`d like to read more on the "Physics" of lightsabers, this website is really good and although its only a fictional weapon, i find this site describes the most likely way it works and functions.

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

O well just a thought im not trying to start an argument


:p

Pedro The Hutt
02-24-2002, 09:29 AM
Naw.. that site owner assumes too much.. he has written anything on that site based on his own opinions and views. (also the way he trashes the ways of some of the Jedi's fighting styles isn't pretty anymore)

Lightlance
02-24-2002, 09:42 AM
True he may assume to much but if you can show me a sight about lightsabers that doesnt rely on speculation i`ll be suprised (and quite in your debt). With the available material in my opinion this is a good sight.

Agen
02-24-2002, 09:59 AM
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/images/screens/61.jpg

Well if you think about it. if you were the guy with the blue sab dancing and you looked down with the saber cutting through and then you walk in a circle causing your saber to make a circle so if it went right through the bit of glass would fall right through.. correct? also you could cut the whole square out with your saber by ealking round. That is more like the GeoMod Engine tho. also in jk when you hit glass is shattered as if you hit it with a baseball bat, but if you think bout it no-one knows if that's what wpold happen because it is s-f and them olecules may try to go against each other causing it to shatter rather than melt.

Tre Lightshadow
02-24-2002, 11:10 AM
Maybe a lightsaber is somewhat like a real-life laser. It does carry heat (because it is condensed light) but the heat doesn't stray to far from the beam because it is so condensed. A lightsaber is even more so, the beam is only about a meter long, so the heat wouldn't stray too far from the light, especially if it is like a condensed laser. The melting could also occur from friction, I beileve this was stated. The lightsaber would produce high frequncies, it is light, and by moving molecules that fast, it would create heat on the door's molecules, therefore melting it.

Thrawn
02-24-2002, 01:25 PM
I agree with Tre. It's the best reasonable solution.

Lightlance
02-24-2002, 08:01 PM
Nice theory Tre Lightshadow, thats pretty much what i was trying to get across only in a different fasion, but yeah that sound plausable. Top Bannana.
:)

txa1265
02-25-2002, 08:00 AM
I don't know if anyone has checked out the most recent SoF2 video trailer - at about the 27 second mark it shows some really cool shattering glass windows - the best I've ever seen. Raven (Ken?) very recently talked about that being something also used in JK2.

Mike

Desslock
02-25-2002, 08:14 AM
Also take note that when Obi Wan chopped of the alien's arm in the cantina in Ep4, the arm didn't spray blood everywhere. Its some word that where you put heat on a laseration or something that it stops the bloodflow. I think its clot but Im not sure.

By the way, if the blade is pure energy, then friction wouldn't matter if Im correct because energy doesn't have a physical surface so it doesn't create friction. I am probably wrong on this, but if not, woohoo :) I haven't had physics yet...

Imp Destroyer
02-25-2002, 09:22 AM
the Lightsaber is pure enery!!!
what happens when you try to put to much energy through a small wire? it gets hot, that is similar to how a lightsaber works!!
it adds energy to any matter it comes in contact with and heats it up that way, the air surrounding it doesn't get hot because the air right at the surface of the blade becomes ionized and acts as an insulation
or something like this, i just realized that several times Jedi have used their lightsabers underwater and the water has not gotten hot, oh well

Fardreamer
02-25-2002, 09:47 AM
Argh. Another one of these arguments. Think about like this: a lightsaber is a high-powered, energy- or plasma-based chainsaw. The blade particles are emitted and then loop back. The blade DOES NOT emit heat, only light, otherwise it would undoubtedly kill anoyone within quite a large radius. When the blade passes through matter, it causes friction. Heat is the byproduct of friction, so that's why you see scorch marks and molten steel. Similarly, the blade causes sparks when it hits hard surfaces - did you ever try grinding a chainsaw against a metal plate?

This explanation accounts for all effects seen in the movies.

Fardreamer
02-25-2002, 10:02 AM
Another obvious reason that the blades are more than just "hot light" is that the blades collide which each other, and emit sparks as they do so. No form of light or heat would do that.

UniKorn
02-25-2002, 11:53 AM
To get back to the original question : how will glass interact with your surroundings.

1. When you are standing at 1 side of the glass, you will be able to see the other side.
2. Some glass can be shattered, some cannot. The mapper decides which glass you can shatter.