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View Full Version : Cutting through Steel poles??


M@nd@lori@n
02-25-2002, 10:17 AM
I notice in the large trailer to JK2 which was at fileplanet but now I can't find it, Kyle ran pass what appears to be a tall lamp post structure. I know they said that the lightsaber leave burnt marks on walls and that the environment is more interactive but can you cut through the "lamp post" and have it fall apart,just like Vader did in Bespin against Luke in E.B.S.??:confused: :fett:

The Truthful Liar
02-25-2002, 10:20 AM
Ya, I am pretty sure you do.

The 'others' ;) will know into more depth though.

Cheers ;)

Pedro The Hutt
02-25-2002, 10:21 AM
Well they said that there'll be alot of objects you can interact with, so I guess that large steel poles will be part of those things. (hehe, would be cool to cut down a tall pole and then force pushing the thing into a squad of stormtroopers. )

The Truthful Liar
02-25-2002, 10:26 AM
Sounds like fun :D

Cheers ;)

nykel007
02-25-2002, 10:47 AM
Have the pole fall on the Stroppers.:D

thrEEpaGe
02-26-2002, 10:11 AM
you guys are completely wrong...you wont be able to cut through lamp posts and have them fall off....i am quite sure of this....if they do have it, it will be cool, but i really really doubt that....they controllability of the environment wont be that good...you guys are getting your hopes up too much

Pedro The Hutt
02-26-2002, 10:20 AM
Or you're being a pessimist ;) Have some faith in LEC & Raven.

db6
02-26-2002, 10:27 AM
In Jedi Knight, Kyle could throw certain crates at opponents: this was a way to interact with the environment in JKI. I imagine that JK2 will offer similar interaction, maybe cutting certain lamp-posts in some levels would have a similar feel to throwing some crates in JK.

Swoosh
02-26-2002, 10:33 AM
I believe in one interview Raven stated that if you saw it in the movies, then you will probably be able to do it in the game (or something to that effect). Since Vader did this in the movies, sounds like it is a possibility. But, if it doesn't happen, I won't be too sad either.

Swoosh

Cyclone
02-26-2002, 10:44 AM
A mapper can specifically make a object "destructable", but its not likely that they will. This would require the object to be an entity vs just a regular brush. One or two of them, no biggie. Hundreds in a map, big deal.

You won't be able to saber everything you see and expect them to behave accordingly. Just like in other Q3A engine games, you can fire rockets into a wall all day and there will be no damage.

Quit trying to make up things to dissappoint yourselves with. I can see the "Raven make worlds destructable" petition that will be in the works. geeze.

Cyclone

Jedi Howell
02-26-2002, 11:15 AM
any1 here a level editor? any1 here ever played Half-Life? if the answer 2 1 of these questions is yes, then ull know:

breakable objects are easy as hell to do
breakable objects that can be interacted with after breaking are probably not
breakable objects will probably not have any effect on opponents
u will almost definitely see cool effects when chopping down lamp poles

jh

GAT
02-26-2002, 02:59 PM
This is off topic, but would they really use steel in the Star Wars Universe? Wouldn't it be durasteel or something?

I was just curious...

GAT

Ulic Quel Droma
02-26-2002, 03:43 PM
Who really cares if its steel? :P

that would be awesome if you could cut a pole that fell down and smashed through a barracks wall only to show a sith and storm toopers :p

Gabrobot
02-26-2002, 05:31 PM
... you can fire rockets into a wall all day and there will be no damage.

In Red Faction, you can make tunnels by slamming rockets into walls.:cool: It can be done.

Lord_FinnSon
02-26-2002, 05:42 PM
While I think Raven will make most loose, small objects(except guns) destructable, they will probably add only few bigger "objects" like lamp posts into that list to strengthen the image of interactive environment. I don't leave out the possibility that they might also let you destroy certain parts of bigger structure if there is some purpose to do so; I remember one instance in EF, for example, where you had to blast one pilar bringing part of the catwalk down, so that you could take shortcut to upper level. You still leave only scorch marks and blaster burns to walls and floors though(and even they will fade away).

Moses
02-26-2002, 06:02 PM
I wish I had a lightsaber to cut down trees with instead of a hacksaw. That would make my life of yardwork a lot easier. :D

I think that lampposts will be destructible but not walls, buildings, etc. I mean, I'm sure you will be able to shoot out the light inside the lamp, but I don't really see what use slicing through a lamppost has, except that it looks pretty cool.

acdcfanbill
02-26-2002, 06:28 PM
it was cool in the MotS MP you could cut the poles at bespin... the same place darth did... i wonder how much stuff will be able to be cut in MP?

Qel
02-26-2002, 06:38 PM
I hope so we can cut stuff up...like a hot knife through butter....

Qel

GlobuleSO
02-26-2002, 08:40 PM
Yeah, what Cyclone said.

It would be very easy for Raven to make metal pole "entities" that can be cut in half (interacted with). However, entities like this tend to hurt framerate, so you wouldn't see a whole ton of them.

Has anyone played Obi-Wan for X-Box? Despite some of the really negative reviews, this game does get a lot of things right. For example, there are some objects in the game that look like metal poles that have energy inside them; you force-push them into enemies, and when it hits, it will blow up, killing pretty much anything.. then you have this blown-up metal pole, which you can force-push around some more to kill even more baddies.:D There's a lot of other neat stuff; you can, for example, slam battle droids into a wall or crate and they will smash into peices; you can slice them in half; cut their heads off, etc, depending on where your saber hits 'em. It's great fun!! Probably one of the best moments was when I was in a hallway with about 15 droids in front of me; I did saber-throw and took half of them out flying AWAY and the rest on the way BACK. it was SWEET!

Ulic Quel Droma
02-26-2002, 08:52 PM
why waste your money on a console? :p
PC's better

anyway wouldnt it be funny if a sith took a swing at you and you ducked and it took out a poll wich then fell over on the sith killing him :D

or how about you force grip someone and throw them through glass? :P :P eh eh?

just getting my hopes up i spose :P

StarScrap
02-26-2002, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by AB_Legion
Ya, I am pretty sure you do.

The 'others' ;) will know into more depth though.

Cheers ;)

Dangit, I used to be one of those 'others'. And then I started getting projects in school. :(

or how about you force grip someone and throw them through glass? :P :P eh eh?

This is off topic, but I just thought of something. Pick up a stormie with grip, then use push to send the stormie out over a drop, then let go of grip. :):):):):)

Moses
02-26-2002, 11:20 PM
Why wouldn't you just grip him and hurl him over the edge with grip? You can do that with level 3 grip. :)

Cyclone
02-27-2002, 12:10 AM
Jedi Howell:

hehe, I have made plenty of Half-Life maps www.planethalflife.com/jailbreak I'm that Cyclone and I made practically every map for that mod, although its been a while :D

So I know what you are talking about. breaking boxes to get healths and all that. But what Valve made HL map allowed you to destroy every wall, stair or other equipment in sight? None of them.

The id engines are not designed that way, JKII uses an id engine.

I stand by my post.

Cyclone

Naphtali
02-27-2002, 05:05 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ulic Quel Droma
[B]why waste your money on a console? :p
PC's better


Because a pC engine is just a PC whereas a gaming console engine is designed soley for games. PLus they have better games

:confused:
then you dont have to always upgrade every year or 2 when a console will last 5 to 7 years.

Outlaw
02-27-2002, 08:38 AM
Globule, your right. Obi-Wan has great gameplay. You really feel like a jedi in that game! Jedi Knight 1 was considered one of the best shooters of all time, and deserves it. Obi-Wan clearly has superior gameplay and graphics yet it recieves no respect. To this day I don't understand why Obi recieved such poor reviews. I'm sure Jedi Outcast will, however, dethrone most other Star Wars games when released.

Pedro The Hutt
02-27-2002, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Cyclone

The id engines are not designed that way, JKII uses an id engine.

I stand by my post.

Cyclone

One thing though..... Raven seriously modified that engine ^.^ But heck, let's just wait and see untill we have that game now lol.. this discussion can go on for weeks ^.^

Desslock
02-27-2002, 09:57 AM
Howell:

-Breakables are easy to do, but difficult to master.
-They can have a huge impact on other people.
-If you gib something in the game world, its not meant to be put back together. You can reset breakables, but why would you want to in the middle of a game?

Eternity
02-27-2002, 04:10 PM
that would be awesome if you could cut a pole that fell down and smashed through a barracks wall only to show a sith and storm toopers

As someone has mentioned, get Red Faction if you're into that. It's been done, and it's been done well.

I very much doubt much interaction with the enviroment will take place. I'm thinking Raven isn't going to go out of the norm, here; they are making a solid shooter here, on a deadline. Nothing unique, except for the light-sabre.

Good thing I'm not expecting anything else. 0_0. They better have good maps and smart AI, though.

Redfox_20
02-27-2002, 04:30 PM
As someone mentioned earlier-

Red Faction introduced "Geo Morph" technology in 3D gaming engines. You were able to shoot a rocket at the wall/floor and a hole would be created. If one was bored, they could go for hours making an undergroud "cave" using grenades, mines, and rockets.

Some of the multiplay maps relied on the use of this technology to get from place to place. For example, you started out in a small room which has walls MEANT to be destroyed, providing access to an outer area.

Sure, this may be the Q3 engine that doesn't incorporate that, But i am sure that THQ, Volition, and the makers of red faction aren't holding the rights to this technology exclusively.

As they say- its BASED on ID's and Raven's 3d engine, but its not exactly the same. I sure am hoping to see something like this in JKII, mainly because it excites me and provides a WHOLE different level of gameplay.

Cheers
Redfox

X-Vector
02-27-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Eternity
I very much doubt much interaction with the enviroment will take place. I'm thinking Raven isn't going to go out of the norm, here; they are making a solid shooter here, on a deadline. Nothing unique, except for the light-sabre.


Well, the force powers are pretty unique for an FPS as well (although credit should go for LEC for those features - JK did it first), but I agree with the rest of your points.

JO is not DNF, Raven have never claimed their game will major on interactivity so it's not very wise to expect too much in that area.
There'll probably be some items that can be smashed up or cut through, but they'll be recognizably destructable and used as a means to an end (to allow progress into areas that are otherwise inaccesible most likely).

scubactor
02-28-2002, 01:05 PM
Cyclone, perhaps you don't realize that Jedi Outcast and Half-Life are absolutely nothing alike, so the fact that you make Half-Life levels doesn't make you any smarter, especially considering they use two completely different engines. Nobody ever said anything about knocking everthing into stormtroopers, he just said that it would kick ass to be able to cut poles down. If you think that the Quake III engine is too limited you're very very wrong. Destructable environments would be incredibly easy to create. Ever played Elite Force? Which just happens to be Raven Software. Of course it would be possible to cut down poles, down think that it's something that's limited by the power of the software, or especially the engine. If they have the Saber leave permanent scars on the walls, I'm sure they can do much more with the environment.
Redfox is right about the Red Faction technology, which doesn't cause any hit to fram rate, contrary to what some people think. But it's Geo-Mod, not Geo-Morph.

X-Vector
02-28-2002, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by scubactor
Cyclone, perhaps you don't realize that Jedi Outcast and Half-Life are absolutely nothing alike, so the fact that you make Half-Life levels doesn't make you any smarter, especially considering they use two completely different engines. Nobody ever said anything about knocking everthing into stormtroopers, he just said that it would kick ass to be able to cut poles down. If you think that the Quake III engine is too limited you're very very wrong. Destructable environments would be incredibly easy to create. Ever played Elite Force? Which just happens to be Raven Software.


I've played EF, it's not a bad game by any means but it contains almost zero interactivity.
There's a number of consoles to activate, there's the odd elevator button to push, but that's about it.
Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Medal of Honor: Allied Assault are two more examples of Q3 powered games that score low on the interactivity chart.
Ironically, the game that originates from the older Quake I tech (but at the same time features by far the most radical engine improvements), Half-Life, is clearly the most interactive of the lot.

Cyclone
02-28-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by scubactor
Cyclone, perhaps you don't realize that Jedi Outcast and Half-Life are absolutely nothing alike, so the fact that you make Half-Life levels doesn't make you any smarter, especially considering they use two completely different engines. Nobody ever said anything about knocking everthing into stormtroopers, he just said that it would kick ass to be able to cut poles down. If you think that the Quake III engine is too limited you're very very wrong. Destructable environments would be incredibly easy to create. Ever played Elite Force? Which just happens to be Raven Software. Of course it would be possible to cut down poles, down think that it's something that's limited by the power of the software, or especially the engine. If they have the Saber leave permanent scars on the walls, I'm sure they can do much more with the environment.
Redfox is right about the Red Faction technology, which doesn't cause any hit to fram rate, contrary to what some people think. But it's Geo-Mod, not Geo-Morph.

Actually you would be surprised about how similar HL, Q1, Q3, Q3A, EF, HexenII, HereticII engines are. They use the same brush system to create worlds, they have the same map leak issues with the void, they use entities for all such items. You can actually remove the textures and enties from a map on one engine and import the map into a new engine. This why the same Radient editor can be used for all Id engine games (with certain game specific tweaks of course). So the fact that I did make Half-Life maps (and Quake II and Quake III) maps does make me smarter, because I know the limitations where you can just speculate.

I like how you say that it would be incredibly easy to create destructable environments in the Q3 engine. Oh yeah? Where do you see that? Not in RCTW, not in EF. Sure there are a few "blow up the doors or crypt" in a few select objectives. But not the regular world where every wall is fair game. It just doesn't happen because the engine is not designed that way. JKII uses that engine. You will not be able do it in JKII.

The changes made to id engines are usually outside of the world building code. Sure Valve added beam effects, Q3A introduced shaders, SOF introduced Ghoul on the models. Those aren't the kinds of tech improvements that even open up the possiblity of "destructable worlds". The saber scars are nothing more than the same decal technology that Valve used in HL to put blood on the walls, or Q3 Used to put bullet holes on the walls. That is not a Raven inovation. So like I said in my original post the mapper can intentionally make certain objects destructable, but they won't make the entire map destructable.

One of the first things you learn about making maps is leaks. Every map is a sealed environment. The sky is just as much of a brush as the floor. The just have different properties. Out side of this sealed map is the "Void". If at any point an entity in your map can see the Void, then you have a leak. Leaks are a no no. So you can see how a perimeter brush can not be an entity or else it would "leak". Only entis can be destroyed. Also in the past, entities would not be included in light calculations. That is why you would see light shining through a doorway even when the door was closed. If you make every wall out of entities, then there would be no light blocking or vis blocking and framerates would go nutz.

My experience has made me smarter than you :P , and your jump to try and use rationalization instead of knowledge makes you a stupid dummy head :D

Cyclone

PS: Ef was a lot of fun. I really liked the "evil parallel dimension" star fleet ship that was part of the bunch that was put together by the scanvengers. All they needed was an Evil Spock in that map. Hmm, don't recall any destructable levels in that game...

PSS: Still smarter than you :P

Jolts
02-28-2002, 06:17 PM
diss

X-Vector
02-28-2002, 06:34 PM
missed

Cyclone
02-28-2002, 09:14 PM
Pissed?

GlobuleSO
03-01-2002, 12:28 AM
kissed

Kurgan
03-01-2002, 12:57 AM
Dark Forces 1 had a TON of destructable objects.. but of course, they were just texture decal changes (ie: shoot the lamp, and it goes dark), and cracks in walls you could blow up (much like the "slashable grates" in JK/MotS).

I imagine they will make some use of destructable/interactive objects, and the more the merrier I say, but I wouldn't expect anything on the level of <i>Red Faction</i> (and even that game had limits).

Cyclone
03-05-2002, 02:58 PM
This taken from Raven Chat: Raven Chat (http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/depart/mar02/jedilog.html)

Drew Carey: How complex is the damage system for the environment? Will I be able to knock parts of building and structures by waving my saber or perhaps shooting at them?

Kevin S: Certain things are destroyable, but you can't just wreck everything in sight.


Just like I said.

Also, this little bonus since you tried to hammer me

scubactor: Are there any plans for an expansion pack in the works?

Graham F: How about we finish the main game first? :)

Ooooooo, now that was being dissed!

DaAan
03-05-2002, 08:08 PM
i downloaded an E3 "interview" yesterday, and the guy playing one of the builds force sabre throwed, his lightsabre at a bridge type strcuture to make it fall down. so yeah cutting through stuff will be in.
he also shot some pipes with a storm trooper rifle so yea tis possible

M@nd@lori@n
03-08-2002, 09:54 AM
Koool Drool....thanks for the info.That is something to look forward too.