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View Full Version : The trouble with defend-and-build


SirKai
02-26-2002, 10:01 AM
I found a problem with the defend and build strategy while playing the computer. That is the strategy where you build up defenses first to fight off opponent attacks and then build a large bad guy-stomping army.

Last night, for the first time, I tried playing the Rebs and I built up a sizable air force. Before I could even attack the computer at his own base, he gave up. What?!?!?! I'm playing moderate level, I should at least get the chance to blow something up before he quits on me. I didn't even get to see what a fully upgraded air force can do.

This has happened to me several times when I played Empire and Trade Federation, too. Attacking earlier with a smaller force doesn't do it for me because then I actually give the computer a better chance at defeating me ... and the explosions aren't big enough *evil grin*.

Besides the obvious "stop playing the stupid computer and play a real person" solution, how do I stop the computer from giving up before I've even gotten to blow something up?

SirKai

Chessack
02-26-2002, 10:27 AM
I have never, ever had this happen, and I've easily played 40 or 50 defend-and-build games.

What were the victory conditions? Had you perhaps captured all 5 holocrons, and were only 2 days from winning? I have had the computer occasionally resign under those circumstances, which is certainly understandable.

Did you perhaps have an ally? I know one time, while I kept one computer enemy busy, my computer ally nailed the other guy, forcing him to resign without me firing a shot at him. The computer then joined me against enemy #2, and that resignation happened really quickly too. That's going to happen sometimes in 2-on-2 play.

But having it resign without me doing a single thing to its civ? Never, ever had that happen to me.

SirKai
02-26-2002, 03:14 PM
It's always on 1 vs. 1 against the computer on moderate level. I usually capture 3 or 4 of the 5 holocrons. I've only won 3 times from having all 5 holocrons and the computer didn't give up then. My guess is that it keeps slaughtering its forces on my defenses and then, at some point, realizes that I have so many more game points than it does that it gives up.

Bear in mind that it is probably an equation that determines whether or not to give up and the equation may run differently on your computer than on mine.

There was one game (only happened once) where he gave up with ANYONE firing a SINGLE shot. There was another one where I didn't win until I destroyed his last stinkin' building. For reference, I'm using a Pentium III equivalent (I think) running Windows XP.

Chessack
02-26-2002, 03:52 PM
Can't see why it'd give up without any combat at all. When you say "Didn't fire a shot", do you mean that literally, or just that you killed all his attack forces without attacking him back?

My experience has been the computer resigns way later than any human ever would. I'd find it odd if that changed from PC to PC.

SirKai
02-26-2002, 04:56 PM
Honest to goodness, on that particular game, we never exchanged shots. His troops never came near my base and I never ventured near his.

I always play Random Maps or Savannah. I thought winning conditions just meant beating the tar out of him or having the holocrons or protecting a monument but appearantly another game winning condition against the computer is ... collect enough resources and build enough troops to scare the poop out of him.

*grin*

SirKai

Artorius
02-26-2002, 05:05 PM
I played a 1 on 1 on Endor, small map the other day on Hard vs. the computer. I was Empire vs. the computer's Rebels.

It put us on opposite sides of the map, and separated us with trees. There was no contact until I built an airbase. I sent over three fighters for scouting purposes, killed maybe ten of his units and the computer surrendered.

Not only had it not built any AA troops, it hadn't built an airbase, any AA towers or even a fortress, though it was at tech 3. I think it knew it was beaten because even if it had started building AA I had the initiative and could keep throwing fighters at it and keep it from getting an airbase built.

But as Chessack said, there are other times when the computer has refused to resign until I killed its last worker.

Chessack
02-26-2002, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by SirKai
Honest to goodness, on that particular game, we never exchanged shots. His troops never came near my base and I never ventured near his.

How odd. I wonder if a Rancor killed off all its early workers and its scout, and after the last one died, and it couldn't get any more food to build more, it just gave up.

In 2v2 this wouldn't happen (which is maybe why I haven't experienced it), because the computer could get its ally to trade some food to it, enough to get its workers going again.

Supreme Warlord
02-28-2002, 08:35 AM
Man the computer player never does that for me. Not under any condition. They say to me that They will kill me and blah. How do I know what they say? well they send troops and defy my authority...:D Lucky yall they gave up for yall but for me I have no luck with the computer and they defy my authority. Bunch of punks I will wipe them off the face of whatever planet we are on. :p

Chessack
02-28-2002, 11:26 AM
Heh. I like your spunk, Warlord.

I agree, I have rarely seen the computer resign until it had just absolutely nothing left (no workers, no food left to build workers with, etc).

DarthNoodles
02-28-2002, 09:08 PM
I've seen the computer resign many times (it's so easy to do) and it always seems to resign when it has no more workers and no more command centres left. It's quit when it had production facilities left (fortresses even).

It seems to decided that since it can't produce anymore workers and has no more to get resources then it will eventually run out and so it quits.

I tend to play DM with conquest as the win type. I HATE somebody winning with a monument or the holocrons (seems very cheap to me).

Bye,
DarthNoodles

Supreme Warlord
02-28-2002, 09:24 PM
Hey I am a very sore loser if I cant win so what I do is do those mom. or the Holocron just to get the victory. Beside it get to these people that I want to defeat:D j/k I do think they are cheap but so people like the one I describe up there are like that and so that why we have them(meaning we have sore loser in the team that made this game hehehehehehe;) )

Artorius
03-01-2002, 10:49 AM
Has anyone ever had a computer ally tribute them? It's never happened to me, my ally usually just yells for help and calls for attacks.

Sometimes, frankly, they appear to just sit there.

Chessack
03-01-2002, 10:59 AM
Spontaneously, no. But they will give you stuff if they have it to spare, and you ask them for it.

Also, they will tribute everything they have left if they resign. Which of course usually isn't much.

Artorius
03-11-2002, 01:36 PM
I must be missing something then, how do you ask the computer for tribute? Is there a command button I'm missing or something?

Chessack
03-13-2002, 10:41 PM
Yes, you can. In the communication menu, where you would communicate with other players, you can also ask the computer for tribute. Sometimes he gives it, sometimes he doesn't. Like with real players, it depends if he has it to spare.

qui-gon-jon
03-14-2002, 03:56 PM
i was playing a game 2-3 vrs. computer and my ally kept giving me every resource it had hundred by hundred till it had none left.and when it got more it kept giving me more covering the whole screen with that message and it didnt even resign.This only happened once though.

Artorius
03-18-2002, 02:06 PM
Chessack, thanks for that tip. I never noticed the Orders box before. Very helpful.

I've had the computer give me a lot of resources before, I think when it decides it's not going to do any more upgrades it frees up some resources and so gives them to the player.

Rogue15
03-19-2002, 09:46 AM
I'm playing this 4 ffa against computer, it's me, empire ,royal naboo, and wookiees, i have it so u can ally, etc.. well i try to form an alliance with the empire, and help defend it against the naboo, and i'm pumping out loads of destroyer droids and aats, and they come and try to get past my 3 fortresses which are protected by a shield, and i'm like 'YOU STUPID IDIOTS U SHOULD'VE ALLIED WITH ME!!!!!' and i storm their base and wipe it out with only losing like less than 1/4 of my stuff, the naboo attacks too, so i'm attacking them as well, and then they send bounty hunters up near my base...so i bring my droidekas and attack them, and am like yay! cause the empire resigned, stupid traitors hehehe! and i do a small alliance with the wookiees, but they set to neutral or something cuz they're not attacking me when i'm using some of their nova, so i decide to build a fortress near their wall just in case...and i have 2 fortresses with shield generator a bit to the right of my base (wookiees are on right side of map and naboo are on bottom right of map). And so the naboo comes with air, and tries to attack...LAME!!!! they lose all their fighters hehehe and i have like 20 troops in the fortress and they bring their pathetic mounted troopers and get all wiped out even their stupid strike mechs get wiped.

So i take as much droidekas as possible, i have some left over, and i go and kill some of naboo boy's production stuff and go into his base and kill the power core to the shield generator which is surrounding his command center....so my droidekas get wiped out of course by the naboo's air...and i decide it's time to teach them a lesson and pummel drop 15 pummels outside their base, get in, take out the command center and of course the pummels get destroyed cause lots of stuff in the way. Then the wookiees get ticked off and start attacking, they lose of course mounted trooper vs heavy droideka is kinda sick if u ask me.

then i build a load of aats and staps fully upgraded, btw. and storm naboo's base, take out their 2 airbases, and as much other stuff as i can with the aats and i use the staps to destroy their workers...the air's attacking, but they're not fast enough and they don't have too many only like 10-20 and i think i'll win it...i had to shut it down to get some sleep...anyway, that's the most successful 200 max pop moderate difficulty i've played...funnest too!!!

LSF_Ewok
03-20-2002, 01:49 AM
i know what hes saying i was playing 3 on 3 vs com on hard. in the beginning i knocked out one player and i was basicly toying with the other guy for the rest of the game i then kicked his ass and knocked out 90% of his base and he didnt surrensder whil the other rebel alliance dude had the highest score my allies didint even get into his bas and he just resigned out of nowere i then built a monument for fun left the game on while i ate dinner and when i came up it was ovefrr i had won pretty wierd occureces must say.:ewok:

_Xenocide_
04-06-2002, 03:49 AM
This War Room Strategy seems very focused on computer opponents.

Chessack
04-06-2002, 10:15 PM
That's cuz SirKai and I do a lot of the posting and we don't MP very much. :D