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View Full Version : Complexity of Boss levels


JediArs
02-26-2002, 03:04 PM
I'm hoping the boss levels will be MUCH better that JKI. There should definately not be one big room but rather a huge level where you could go in different places (like MP I guess, but better effects). I think there should also be different ways of killing the boss say, with traps? It seems like the reborn won't really be that much of bosses so a boss will have to be a more sophisticated and powereful Jedi (remember the statues in MOTS?) And above all, the AI and movement of the boss should be very good. I'm sure it will be (as seen in the trailer). The image of Maw flying around and Boc.......Boc jumping around like a lunatic (that was kind of cool, original and different). But Jerec! He jus floated around in a huge room! After all those good fights......it came to that!:mad: I am very confident JKII will be a great improvement. There is so much hype......:cool:

Ulic Quel Droma
02-26-2002, 03:50 PM
Well im guessing when you do fight a boss it will WAY differnt compared to jk1 just because of the improved light saber effects

i think he best battle i had on jk1 was vs Sarris when yun kills himself but thats about it but lets not forget that its a game made in 1997 :P:lightning

Rogue15
02-26-2002, 03:53 PM
I thought the battle with Maw in jedi knight was the BEST, i liked how he went through the doors and the battle ended on that circular platform, that was sweet. and with Dark Mara in MOTS (2 ways to kill her, first time, i force pushed her into the water and she drowned!!!!) I hope there's more than 1 way to kill each boss in jk2.

StormHammer
02-26-2002, 03:54 PM
I guess you're picking up on the comments I posted in this thread (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33143)? ;)

If I think of anything else...I'll post it here, though. :)

JediDante
02-26-2002, 05:14 PM
I just hope it makes you feel as if you were in a SW movie.

Moses
02-26-2002, 06:11 PM
Oh, and THAT'S not a tall order in itself! :rolleyes:

If you think about it, Raven put all this extra development into JUST the lightsaber, I'm sure they will follow up with giving us great ways to show it's power.

JR2000Z
02-26-2002, 07:11 PM
What I hated about the boss levels is justs its 'kill kill kill'.

I want some stratagy put into it. (Kinda what JediArs said.)

Bowen
02-26-2002, 07:39 PM
I think it's wrong to just kill in the game. There should be love and respect and we should all hold hands and sing....hehe....J/K...I liked the last few levels in MOtS. It was really cool that to beat Kyle, you had to put your lightsabre down because you couldn't beat him....he was too powerful. I'm glad that kyle has both dark and light Force powers like in MOtS!

SaberPro
02-26-2002, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Rogue15
I thought the battle with Maw in jedi knight was the BEST, i liked how he went through the doors and the battle ended on that circular platform, that was sweet. and with Dark Mara in MOTS (2 ways to kill her, first time, i force pushed her into the water and she drowned!!!!) I hope there's more than 1 way to kill each boss in jk2.

Yeah, more than 1 way to kill bosses (drown, Force Powers, blasters, Force Push into a wall...etc), AND NEW CUTSCENES for how they are destroyed :)

They would be nice :)

TIE
02-26-2002, 08:30 PM
It'd be nice if there were small objectives you had to fulfill while fighting the boss aswell...

Example?

The second battle with Venom in the Spider-Man game for Playstation and Dreamcast.
You had to fight Venom, but also prevent Mary Jane from drowning while you do it. Occasionally he'd do flip the switch to lower her into the water, and you had to flip it back, while chasing him around the level trying to get a punch or kick in.

-TIE

MuRaSaMuNe
02-26-2002, 08:51 PM
I think it would be good to have a confined level as well. I'd like to have a final saber duel on a narrow pipe over top of a boiling lava pit, that'd be suspensfull woo :thumbsup:

StarScrap
02-26-2002, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by MuRaSaMuNe
I think it would be good to have a confined level as well. I'd like to have a final saber duel on a narrow pipe over top of a boiling lava pit, that'd be suspensfull woo :thumbsup:

Suspenseful maybe, but frustrating. Give the players an option. The AI will follow you if you go out onto that pipe, and stay there if you do, so if you want the fight there, just don't walk into the door at the end that's there for people who can't stand the frustration of falling.

Moses
02-26-2002, 11:17 PM
The best part about Star Wars fights is location if you think about it. All of them are very exotic. Inside a giant space station with stormtroopers watching, on a narrow catwalk over a hundred meter deep chasm, in the Emperor's throne room with a giant spacefight raging outside, inside the power core of a beseiged palace. The key to good Jedi fights is location, location, location. You never see two Jedi ignite in the middle of a tatooine street. It just doesn't work. Maw was the best example of this in JK1. Do you honestly think that the Ep1 jedi fight would have been near as impressive if it didn't feature Darth Maul falling down 5 stories onto a catwalk, Obi being trapped behind a force field watching his master die, or the giant door at the beginning opening to reveal the Sith Apprentice? I think not. Go exotic!

Silent_Thunder
02-27-2002, 12:18 AM
As someone stated above, I believe the design, and variance of the boss battles is the key to having a succesful, interesting battle.

Such as the Maw level--which was the most enjoyable battle in the game, in my opinion--which was located in a large level, with several doors, and power ups. Also, part of the battle was fought in one section of the tower, and the second part in another tower. Also, Maw was the coolest of the Dark Jedi's too :).

However, even though Maw's battle was decent it was still not incredible. Someone above said that the reason for the uninteresting boss battles of Jedi Knight was becuase it was created in 1997.

However, let's not forget the good 'ol days of Dark Forces, and the level of Imperial City. If you do not remember, or have not played Dark Forces, then I'll explain what happened.

Unline Jedi Knight, Dark Forces was similar to MotS in the fact that the boss battles were merged with the rest of the game's levels--they were not seperate levels as Jedi Knight had.

At the end of Imperial City, Kyle was forced to fight and knock (couldn't be kill, since he got killed in the sarlacc pit) out Boba Fett. Boba Fett would follow Kyle all through the level, which provided interesting gameplay, since the player could lay down mines in hiding for Boba to walk over, or lie in wait...

Also, another interesting aspect of the Boss levels of Dark Forces was the fact that all the bosses (All 2 of them :rolleyes: ) had GUNS (and jetpack) instead of lightsabers.


I think it would be awesome to have one level in JKII to be similar to the Original Dark Force's boss battles. By doing so, they could take the key elements of DF's boss battles, such as the large levels, which bosses could follow you around on, and the usage of guns, while using the amazing new AI of JKII.

Naphtali
02-27-2002, 04:59 AM
Well jO has made it clear that the lightsabeer battles here are the most movie like, you see the UK trailer. So you can do anything.
Also they said they maded the jedi AI to follow you anywhere so if you werent restricted they still will follow you all over which is a nice touch.
They seemed to have made it like metal gear in the sense where you can beat the enemy in a variety of ways, and thats important.

The battles look like their very energetic and exciting.
Also it should always focus on the mission than killing the boss sometimes. For instance if the mission is to escape to the ship in the hanger, then you should have the option to fight the boss or divert him enough to get to the ship




TIE i agree with your point on venom vs spidey that time.

GonkH8er
02-27-2002, 05:30 AM
Perhaps we could force push one of the enemies onto a wall of spikes to kill them.

Pedro The Hutt
02-27-2002, 08:18 AM
And where would one find a wall of spikes so all of a sudden? This isn't that other great Lucas hero's game ^^"

acdcfanbill
02-27-2002, 10:51 AM
no, its ash from army of darkness, and why would jedi be in the 13th century in england???

The Truthful Liar
02-27-2002, 10:57 AM
well why not!!?? :D
j/k

I suppose we'll all have to wait and see how extensive JK2 Will be in regard to Saber Duels/Battling with Bosses and Reborns.

Cheers ;)

TUS_Tomcat
02-27-2002, 11:50 AM
Someone making a mod for a Obi Wan vs Jango Fett fight sounds sweeet... And i havent even seen that movie yet, or played the game!

Kurgan
02-27-2002, 12:12 PM
Maybe JK2 should take a hint from Bergman and have Kyle play [holo] chess against the final boss. ; )

Pedro The Hutt
02-27-2002, 01:00 PM
And Force Push all the pieces of the board/table if he loses? Or use the Jedi mind trick to make the boss make wrong moves? "You will place your king so that my knight can get him with ease"

Lord_FinnSon
02-27-2002, 01:40 PM
Maybe JK2 should take a hint from Bergman and have Kyle play [holo] chess against the final boss. ; )
That reminds me of scripted sequence in EF where two federation guys played chess, but in JK2 there could be Wookie(I wish they would add this species as one of the enemies) and rodian playing dejarik(hologram game aboard Millenium Falcon). Wookie looses so he rips off his opponents arms; easily done with Ghoul 2. :D

toms
02-27-2002, 06:27 PM
making the level play a part in the boss battle would be cool... at repeatedly hitting people can only be fun for so long.

one good example would be destructible scenery. like the walkway that can be destroyed by throwing your saber in jk, or the carbon pit that you push vader into and force pull the switch in the cloud city level (imagine that with decent AI).

other cool things would be chandeliers you could throw your saber at to drop them on the boss, of course tables, chairs and crates to force push at people. garbage crushing walls in pits, cuting out bulkheads, opening doors to suck them into space.

using a combination of force powers to make good use of these things would be cool... force push them in, force pull the switch.

even just being able to flip switches to open/shut doors and open shut force fields to trap them for a short period of time (so you can go and get health) or make them go another way (maybe through a trap area, like above).

imagine closing a force field between you and the boss just stalks up and down 2 feet from you, waiting for it to open again. a la darth maul. :D

Moses
02-27-2002, 09:07 PM
Good ideas toms! I like them! I think it would be cool to be able to set up your moves while fighting with the enemy. For example, the two of you are locked in an intense saber battle, and while you are fighting you use the Force to open a door and force push an explosive contained inside it. Then you fight over that direction using aggressive stance and kick/force push the boss into the door. Then lightning the exlosive container and close the door. hehe.:D

JediArs
02-28-2002, 07:19 AM
Its been a while since I played MOTs but I can't remember which level dark Mara is in (thats if she even is in any) and what part of the level whe is in. Someone mentioned dark Mara above. So please, inform me of this.

Rogue15
02-28-2002, 11:00 AM
She's on Dromund Kaas, before the sith temple.