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Naphtali
02-27-2002, 04:43 AM
Can someone tell me about force rage a little bit more, from what i heard this will slighty increase speed and strength temporaly.
However is it passive, or selective?

It seems that raven put some thought into this as it is perfect in the sense, where this seems to happen in the movies, where someone can use the force to temporaily increase speed and strength.
Im sure you guys can think of some examples but the main one would be when luke used his hateful feelings become stronger and faster enough to beat his father in rotj.

txa1265
02-27-2002, 05:12 AM
What I understand is that when using it, your health goes to ~1, but you have massive strength and force power ... so you can use it to mutilate enemies, but a hangnail will kill you ;)

Qel
02-27-2002, 05:28 AM
Its also a MULTIPLAYER ONLY POWER!!!!

Qel

txa1265
02-27-2002, 05:55 AM
Thanks for that reminder, Qel ... I had forgotten that ...

Uber_Saber
02-27-2002, 10:11 AM
I hadn't even heard of this power. Boy, am I lost.

Andrewfus_SMC
02-27-2002, 10:26 AM
/geek rant

luke didnt defeat Vader. he became a true jedi when he restrained from killing him.

kinda the whole point of the scene:)

/end geek rant:)


seriously, force rage sounds really cool for multiplayer. cant wait to use it:)

WD_ToRMeNt
02-27-2002, 12:06 PM
Hehe if you're good and you combine your powers well, you'll develop "Force Rape."

Pedro The Hutt
02-27-2002, 12:20 PM
*punch*.... hentai.... -_-#

WD_ToRMeNt
02-27-2002, 12:22 PM
*yawn*

Kurgan
02-27-2002, 12:27 PM
Now now.

Binary
02-27-2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by txa1265
What I understand is that when using it, your health goes to ~1, but you have massive strength and force power ... so you can use it to mutilate enemies, but a hangnail will kill you ;) hehe. That [hangnails] would be a good candidate for 'worst new feature'!

Pedro The Hutt
02-27-2002, 02:02 PM
"Ah geez.. my nail's stuck between the saber ignating switch.. *tear* OH NO! A HANGNAIL! *dies* lol ^^" I can already see it happen.

Tie Guy
02-27-2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Andrewfus_SMC
luke didnt defeat Vader. he became a true jedi when he restrained from killing him.

kinda the whole point of the scene:)

The way i see it, it wasn't Luke's rage and anger that caused him to defeat vader, but rather his love for his sister, Leia. Thats the whole point of the scene, love triumphs over hate. Get it? Love v. Hate, Light v. Dark.


Anyways...i think that it would make a decent multiplayer force power, but it would be very risky and almost worthless in MP. One hit isn't alot, and you could easily loose the entire level just because of a force power.

BTW, does it refill your health to what it was before after it finishes?

Ulic Quel Droma
02-27-2002, 02:23 PM
Bwhahaha, that would be funny, will this 'force rage' make your saber more powerful against other siths or will it just make you faster?

is there even fists in JO? :confused:

Pedro The Hutt
02-27-2002, 02:37 PM
No fists.
Oh and Force Rage is multiplayer only.. ^.^ and BTW.. It can be very useful when used in the right hands. Think about it, that boost of strenght and speed could give you the edge in the duel and you manage to land that winning blow first. Ofcourse then you can use the remaining time of that boosted speed to QUICKLY run to the nearest health pack.

MuRaSaMuNe
02-27-2002, 03:47 PM
Ye, that would be usefull in de ol' Jedi Knight with the 2 hit saber damage kill thing, because if you get hit once in BGJ there's no chance for you to make it alive through another hit anyway so just use rage. I guess it's just a 'last resort' power.

Vagabond
02-27-2002, 03:50 PM
I kind of miss the fact that there won't be fists in MP. Who here hasn't screwed around once or twice while playing JK/Mots with a good old fashioned boxing match? I always thought it was kind of fun to do that...oh, the good old days...

Chanke4252
02-27-2002, 04:24 PM
Actually it wasnt luke becoming a jedi or love for his sister, but rather just a way to convey mark hamill's bad acting skills.

Vagabond
02-27-2002, 04:42 PM
And I suppose you're the consumate actor? Having done a fair amount of acting, I can say that it's not as easy as it may appear.

And to be honest, I'd say that Mark gave his best performance as Luke during Return of the Jedi. Is he a Robert De Niro or Ed Norton? Clearly not, but I don't feel he's as bad as you're implying. And I'd even say that he does a fair job as Luke.

Thrawn
02-27-2002, 05:16 PM
And he's one of the best voice actors out there right now. The Joker anyone?:D

Desslock
02-27-2002, 06:24 PM
Force rage sounds like a dark side power. Arn't light side jedi supposed to control anger and fear and sith knights use it?

Ulic Quel Droma
02-27-2002, 07:08 PM
Maybe, but remember on EP1 obiwan lost control over his emotions (kinda like jedi rage) and went all out with darthmaul wich in resulted in his fantastic death :D

but even tho he was fighting with anger he was doing it cause of the love he felt for his mentor, Qui gon who had just been given a fatel blow.

ESE_SithEmperor
02-27-2002, 08:02 PM
No more fists=peace remember that :D :D :D


fists=peace

wow that takes us back.

Bowen
02-27-2002, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt
Hehe if you're good and you combine your powers well, you'll develop "Force Rape."

Gee, is that a "passive" Force power?

Vagabond
02-27-2002, 08:13 PM
ESE_SithEmperor, LOL!!! Yes, how could I forget:

fists=peace

...boy, that really takes me back :cool:

MrWhosit
02-27-2002, 09:20 PM
<sigh>...stun baton=peace just doesn't have the same ring to it...

ESE_SithEmperor
02-27-2002, 09:27 PM
Dead bodies=peace sounds better

MuRaSaMuNe
02-27-2002, 10:05 PM
They'll probably do what they do in SBX unlit sabers = peace.

ESE_SithEmperor
02-27-2002, 10:06 PM
(nt)

acdcfanbill
02-27-2002, 11:37 PM
yea, fists=peace takes me back, well, about 2 hours back when i was playing JK... hehe:D

Moses
02-27-2002, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Ulic Quel Droma

Maybe, but remember on EP1 obiwan lost control over his emotions (kinda like jedi rage) and went all out with darthmaul wich in resulted in his fantastic death

but even tho he was fighting with anger he was doing it cause of the love he felt for his mentor, Qui gon who had just been given a fatel blow.

Ok, I play the Star Wars RPG as a gamemaster so I've had a lot of time/experience with determining darkside etc. Allow me to shed some light on this for you...

Obi-Wan was headed toward the darkside when he went beserk on Darth Maul. That was anger, fear, aggression. Remember? However, Maul was not only a better fighter, he was more attuned with the darkside, so he still managed to beat Obi and knock him halfway down the hole. This part's for you Vagabond! If you watch real close, you see Ewan McGregor have what's called (in acting at least) a moment of discovery. This is when he's down the bottom of the hole hanging on for dear life. Darth Maul is mocking him from above. Because Ewan McGregor is such a great actor, all in one close up camera shot, you can tell that Obi-Wan realizes he was headed to the dark side, he cannot win, and heads back in the direction of the lightside of the Force. After he composes himself enough, he pulls himself out of the pit while pulling Qui-Gon's saber to him and slices through a very suprised Darth Maul.

So in conclusion (since this is practically an essay), even if you are doing bad for a good reason (Obi getting angry about Darth Maul killing Qui-Gon), it's still the dark side. After all, no man believes he is truly evil, even if to others he may seem so.

Obi
02-28-2002, 01:21 AM
<font color=cbcbff> Damned right, Moses. I'm still a little unclear on where this info on Force Rage came from?

Naphtali
02-28-2002, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Andrewfus_SMC
/geek rant

luke didnt defeat Vader. he became a true jedi when he restrained from killing him.

kinda the whole point of the scene:)

/end geek rant:)


seriously, force rage sounds really cool for multiplayer. cant wait to use it:)

Re: sigh.. for the LAST time

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Andrewfus_SMC
luke didnt defeat Vader. he became a true jedi when he restrained from killing him.

kinda the whole point of the scene
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The way i see it, it wasn't Luke's rage and anger that caused him to defeat vader, but rather his love for his sister, Leia. Thats the whole point of the scene, love triumphs over hate. Get it? Love v. Hate, Light v. Dark.




The emperor came down and said your hate makes you strong, luke realize how much he almost given into the darkside. Love for his sister will then come to hate as hes not just thinking of leia but himself and all his father has done.

Your hate has meant your powerful

Pedro The Hutt
02-28-2002, 09:10 AM
fists=peace.. haha ^_^" good times... but then ofcourse that were those that would take advantage of that and make a suprise punch or something. (and who knows.. odds are ppl end up making a "fists" mod so that fists=peace can be introduced again LOL)

Vagabond
02-28-2002, 09:30 AM
I disagree - Luke's love for his sister is not at all the point of the scene.

The final confrontation between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor is the climax of the entire saga. This was the moment Luke had been preparing for his entire life, why Obi-Wan and Yoda had so carefully trained him - this was his destiny - to confront his father.

But Luke could still sense the good in his father, and couldn't bring himself to fight him, so he withdrew. The threat by Vader made to Leia was the only thing that could incite Luke to attack his father. And although his love for his sister is what motivated him - the scene was all about hate - it was what Obi-Wan and Yoda feared most: that he would start down the dark path, like his father before him. And so Luke gave into his hate, drew upon the Dark Side, and in his rage became more powerful than his father. Having cut off his father's hand, with him lying helpless on the ground before him, Luke prepared for the killing blow, as the Emperor egged him on.

And then something unexpected happened. Luke saw his father's broken body, his severed mechanical hand, and then he flexed his own mechanical hand. This was the pivotal moment of Luke's character. He stood at the edge of the abyss, his next move being the one that would seal his fate. His hate had made him powerful, and his anger seductively urged him to cross over to the Dark Side. But as he looked at his father's hand and then his own, he realized that he was about to make the same mistake his father had made - he'd remembered his training. And so he eased back from the edge, and turned his back on the Dark Side, passing his final test. Luke was a Jedi.

The events to follow would have Anakin fulfill his destiny as the Chosen One, destroying the Emperor and the Sith Order, sacrificing his life in the process because of his love for his son, and thereby earning redemption for his immortal soul. Thus was fulfilled the ancient Jedi Prophecy, thereby bringing balance to the Force.

Magnum2
02-28-2002, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Vagabond
The events to follow would have Anakin fulfill his destiny as the Chosen One, destroying the Emperor and the Sith Order, sacrificing his life in the process because of his love for his son, and thereby earning redemption for his immortal soul. Thus was fulfilled the ancient Jedi Prophecy, thereby bringing balance to the Force.

LOL! I always thought that the "balance" was that he killed (almost) all the lightside jedi :D

The next 2 on 2 beach volley match:

Light Team:
Yoda
Obiwan

Dark Team:
Darth
Palpy

Silent_Thunder
02-28-2002, 02:14 PM
Hmmm... I always thought that the only reason why Vader got defeated by Luke was becuase Vader couldn't bring himself to kill Luke, and that the emporeror was using all of his power to make Luke defeat Vader... Because he knew that if Luke would kill his father out of anger that he would be hopelessly in the darkside. But if Vader were to kill Luke, then Luke would've died as a true Jedi, which wouldn't been a sore blow to Palpitine. Also, Vader was torn between his love for his son, and the power of the Darkside, so he wasn't fighting at his best..

I mean, Vader was the chosen one, and had been a sith for about 40 years, I'd imagine he'd be alittle better then a 2 year trainee :p.

Also, remember when Papitine started electrocuting Luke, he was completely helpless, but when Vader picked up the Emporeror and dropped him into the pit he was still able to stand (while being electrocuted...).

Vagabond
02-28-2002, 03:53 PM
Luke was his father's son, and as noted by both Obi-Wan and Yoda, was also very strong with the force, being nearly if not as powerful as Vader. Was he less skilled? Definitely. But that doesn't matter when using the Dark Side - it's quicker, faster, more seductive. And note that when Luke was in his rage, he demonstrated very little skill - he swung his lightsaber like a club channeling the raw power of the Dark Side to defeat Vader.

Remember, this is an epic story centered around, Good, Evil, Destiny, and Redemption.

Vader didn't fall to Luke merely because of his mixed emotions. He was destined to fall - he was meant to fall. Just as Luke's entire story arc had been building to this moment, when he would finally come face to face with the Dark Side. This was his destiny - to face his father's decision - to face his father's destiny. He was meant to make that choice. And for those few moments as he flexed his mechanical hand, unsure, the fate of the force and the galaxy hung in the balance. Despite the seductive lure of the Dark Side, Luke did not turn, would not turn. He had played his part.

Vader, though weak from his battle with Luke, was moved by the devotion of his only son. Luke was the only one who could bring Vader back from the darkness - no other. And it was only Vader, moved by the love of his son, who could destroy the Emperor, fulfilling his destiny.

It's both tragic, yet hopeful. The fallen Jedi, responsible for so much pain and suffering, saved his son, and in doing so saved a galaxy. And by offering his life, earned his redemption.

digl
02-28-2002, 04:50 PM
Rage
Duration 10-30 seconds

Effect Frenzy of speed; drains your health; healing time matches usage

Level 1 10-second Rage; 10-second health recovery

Level 2 20-second Rage; 20-second health recovery

Level 3 30-second Rage; 30-second health recovery

Dark Rage (more powerful Rage) Fire 33% faster; move 2x faster; decrease damage taken by 50%; can't die. Recovery after Dark Rage: Fire 50% slower; move at 75% normal speed


:D :D :D

Raze
02-28-2002, 05:01 PM
Luke was his father's son

Yea, sure, next you'll be telling me that Luke was his sister's brother!! Go and make up things somewhere else!

Naphtali
03-02-2002, 04:25 AM
Listen the whole point of force rage is how it is like luke that is all he had boiling anger come to that point so he went into the rage and became stronger and faster with his attacks, where as usuallly he couldn't overcome vader on strength, that been obvious up to that point.
However Vadar surprised at the anger that Luke had which made the force flow through him with strength through his instense emotions thew him into the rage and caused him to win.

Obi
03-02-2002, 05:05 AM
<font color=cbcbff> Sort of looked to me as though Vader lost because he was a crippled old man in an iron lung. But that could just be me. Luke's anger mainly caused him to attack Vader. And yes, fiercly. I don't think Luke was being augmented by the force any more than usual, though. Vader's suit gave him several times the strength of a normal human, even with the force, Luke's physical strength would have been no match for his. I'm just nitpicking though, I think that's about the best example of it in the movies.

Vagabond
03-02-2002, 08:51 AM
Clearly Luke was drawing on the power of the Dark Side when he defeated Vader. Luke was angry and agressive - a no-no for a Jedi. When Luke got Vader on the ground and helpless, Luke looked totally pi$$ed. This was not the calm and serene Jedi that he had been trained to be - this was the pure Dark Side. But then, he remembered his training, calmed down, and the rest is history. This seems fairly obvious to me.

Naphtali
03-04-2002, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by Vagabond
Clearly Luke was drawing on the power of the Dark Side when he defeated Vader. Luke was angry and agressive - a no-no for a Jedi. When Luke got Vader on the ground and helpless, Luke looked totally pi$$ed. This was not the calm and serene Jedi that he had been trained to be - this was the pure Dark Side. But then, he remembered his training, calmed down, and the rest is history. This seems fairly obvious to me.


Thanks for agreeing with me...in your own words

RoyalGuard
03-04-2002, 10:30 AM
First up, Vagabond and Moses, great to see guys who get Starwars posting.

(though being a Vader fan I prefer to think that it was Vader's conflicting emotions about his son that allowed a twerp who was essentially a whiney farmboy to beat him) :)

Next up, back to rage, from what I gather it is an enhanced version of force speed, presumably drawing on all your hate and anger to push your body to the limits, ignoring fatigue and minor flesh wounds (like losing a limb!) while you concentrate on dismembering your puny opponent. As such it provides positive multipliers (possibly dependent on star level if they don't adopt the JK approach to 'elite' force powers) to speed and damage dished out, while also applying negative modifiers to damage you receive. At the end of the power you suffer a period of exhaustion in which you are very vunerable (everything the darkside gives it takes back with interest).

Silent_Thunder
03-04-2002, 10:51 AM
I'm not saying Vader lost merely becuase of mixed emotions... I don't mean Vader was day dreaming, so he just lost merely by chance...

As you said, Vag, he was ment to be defeated by Luke for the reasons you mentioned, however, the force didn't make Luke stop from killing Vader, but he choose to, so in a sense, Luke both choose his destiny, and was fulfilling what he had been made for.

In the same sense, Vader lost to Luke (and defeated the emporer) because he was ment to, but also he did so because he choose to. If Vader was just out for blood with Luke, he would've wiped the floor with him... But instead, he felt love for Luke and couldn't bring himself to kill him. So in the same sense as above, Vader was ment to be defeated by Luke, but also choose it by his own power...

Gee... I feel so silly debating the Star WArs mythos... Maybe I haven't completed my training into the relm of SW geekdom ;) .

Vagabond
03-04-2002, 12:06 PM
I agree, RoyalGuard and Silent_Thunder, Vader did have some conflict, contrary to his assurances to the Emperor. And although this played some small part into his inevitable defeat at the hands of Luke, it was Luke's rage with the Dark Side that gave him the power to bring Vader to his knees. Yet, it was also Luke's love for his father, and the careful guidance of Obi-Wan and Yoda, that kept Luke from killing his father.

Overall, in the context of this thread, I think it's the Force Rage that played the most significant part of Luke's defeat of Vader.

Obi
03-04-2002, 12:07 PM
<font color=cbcbff> oooooh. Not yet. The <i>forum</i>. You must confront <i>the forum</i>! Then, only then, a geek will you be.

Silent_Thunder
03-04-2002, 12:13 PM
"oooooh. Not yet. The forum. You must confront the forum! Then, only then, a geek will you be."

:rofl: :lol: