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Jyt-Pon Dai'el
02-27-2002, 06:25 PM
From the PC Gamer UK video, Force Jump caught my eye. There is one point in particular (about 1:55) where Kyle doesn't slow down in his ascent until just at the peak of his jump (he just keeps rising at a constant speed rather than decelerating with gravity). To me, this suggests that Force jumping initiates as soon as you PRESS the button and continually boosts you upward for as long as you hold it in (or until you reach your maximum potential height, whichever comes first). This sounds alot better to me than how it was in JK1 (where Force Jump charges up the longer you hold in the button, and initiates as soon as you RELEASE the button).

Also, in that scene, Kyle's force meter starts to gradually go down as soon as he leaves the ground, rather than knocking off several notches on the meter all at once. The meter continues to go down at the same rate until he lands. During the jump, he extends his arms out as if he's using the Force to push off the ground with his hands. His arms stay out until he lands. Maybe he uses the force to slow his fall, and that's why the meter continues to drop.

In another scene (0.55), he does a shorter Force Jump. Like the other one, the meter goes down gradually as soon as he leaves the ground. He also puts his arms out, but just for a second. The difference with this jump is that at the peak, he puts his arms down, and the force meter stops dropping. In fact, I think it gains just a little bit back before he hits the ground. I think this means that you control the height of a Force Jump DURING the Jump.

I for one think it's an improvement over JK1. It should make for more responsive controls. Any thoughts?

Binary
02-27-2002, 06:34 PM
I'll have to look for that but I thought the force jump in JK was very good. If you tap it, you get the full-charged jump. If you hold it down, you can go for something in between.

Desslock
02-27-2002, 07:18 PM
Actually the jump in the video was a bit more realistic and tuned to the force in my opinion. Reason being, an explosion of force energy creating a velocity would be very unsafe for a padawan. Instead, you give a small, easier to handle boost and keep that boost going until you wish to stop it.

Perhaps we will be able to tap and release an explosion of energy or hold the button and get a constant flow...

Moses
02-27-2002, 07:30 PM
I rather liked the force jump in JK1. If you watch the evidence of Force Jump in the movies, you see it is closer to JK1's version than JK2. In Ep 1 Obi-Wan force jumps back onto the level where Qui-Gon and Darth Maul are fighting. He doesn't fly up to where he's going but gets one strong push. It's ever more pronounced in ESB when Luke Force Jumps out of the carbonite chamber hole. You see him bolt out of the hole when Vader's back is turned. The way the camera changes makes it clear that he is not sustaining the Force Jump after he did the initial push. It could be possible to levitate yourself as you are suggesting, but it would probably be slower and take a lot more Force.

JediTACC
02-27-2002, 08:49 PM
I LIke that system a lot better, if that is waht the system is. It lets you control the jump more

But if your "force" key is sticky with Pepsi... then you are in trouble. (Or is that just me??)

Jyt-Pon Dai'el
02-27-2002, 11:33 PM
First of all, JediTACC, let me be the first to welcome you to the forums. With any luck, you should be recieving your chocolate Jedi Medallion shortly. I'd tell you it's delicious, but I can't say I've gotten one of my own yet! No offense to StormHammer, I know you must be a busy man dealing with us delinquents!

Secondly...
Originally posted by Moses
... If you watch the evidence of Force Jump in the movies, you see it is closer to JK1's version than JK2.

... I agree. Force Jumps in the movies are more like powerful bursts than upward levitation. However, as much as I'm hoping JKII will follow the perfection of the movies, I'd rather it was not at the cost of improved gameplay, which in my opinion this system demonstrates.

Thirdly,...
Originally posted by Moses
... The way the camera changes makes it clear that he is not sustaining the Force Jump after he did the initial push.

Could you explain your reasoning? The way I see it, moving upwards at a constant rate, rather than decelerating as normal implies that there is an outside "Force" acting DURING the climb. Are you saying that he is decelerating?

Obi
02-28-2002, 12:22 AM
<font color=cbcbff> Actually, I hope his theory is correct. Not only does it make gameplay better by adding control to force jump, but I think it is also truer to the movies. Just because Luke sprang up quickly doesn't mean he used all of the energy of his jump at the beginning of it. Matter of fact, since his speed is constantly fast all the way up, it more likely suggests that he <i>is</i> indeed using a constant push from the force.

Also, in the Making of Episode I on the Episode I DVD, Lucas is shown directing Ewan McGregor on his force jump onto the ledge. At first they used a trampoline to give him the bounce needed, but Lucas mentions that the jedi levitate up and don't actually use the bounce from their legs. They give him a board and have another actor jump on the other side of it to launch mcgregor up onto the platform to make it look more like he is pushed by the force rather than bouncing on it.

Again, on the catwalk and when he lifts himself out of the pit after he is knocked into it by Darth Maul, it's more like he's being pushed out than bouncing out with an explosion of energy. I think the force jump looks a lot better in JK II. I especially like the soft landing. Breaking your legs all the time in JK isn't very fun. I doubt a jedi would jump so high in the air that he hurts himself on the way down.

Moses
02-28-2002, 12:40 AM
Hehe, yeah I doubt a Jedi Master would be so clumsy.

Darth Vader: "Boy that ledge is high...I think I'll try to use the Force!" ::he jumps not quite high enough:: "Geez! That really hurts the old man's legs! I could definitely use another star on that power..."

I had forgotton about the one where Obi literally flies out of the pit. Good catch! I'm not opposed to having a power levitate you, I just think it should take more force power than a regular jump. A regular jump should be one burst at the beginning and one amount of force power taken. Levitation could be holding the jump button down and drains force until released.

Obi
02-28-2002, 02:05 AM
<font color=cbcbff> Somehow I think if it was easy for a jedi to levitate him or herself, we'd be seeing a lot more flying and definitely an aerial battle between two strong jedi. I think that anything more than a force assisted spring or a slight slowing to soften the landing must be extremely taxing for a jedi. It must be hard for them to focus on themselves and other force-using beings. Because they seem to use a lot of power when they push each other, and you never see Vader try to grip Luke. Yet they can lift huge pieces of metal with ease. Hmm...puzzling.

Fardreamer
02-28-2002, 07:33 AM
You're forgetting how Qui-Gon jumped on to the Naboo ship after fighting Maul on Tatooine. That was clearly not a jump from the legs, it was a constant push sending him up.

Desslock
02-28-2002, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Obi
<font color=cbcbff> Somehow I think if it was easy for a jedi to levitate him or herself, we'd be seeing a lot more flying and definitely an aerial battle between two strong jedi. I think that anything more than a force assisted spring or a slight slowing to soften the landing must be extremely taxing for a jedi. It must be hard for them to focus on themselves and other force-using beings. Because they seem to use a lot of power when they push each other, and you never see Vader try to grip Luke. Yet they can lift huge pieces of metal with ease. Hmm...puzzling.

Ack no dragonball Z :)

Actually a reason a jedi wouldn't do this would be that he needs to save his energy for battle. Also that huge piece of flying metal is getting one boost from the force, not a constant flow if I remeber correctly from the movies.

JediBendu
02-28-2002, 08:19 AM
Initially Lucas was planning to make the Qui-Gon vs Maul in the desert duel a flying battle, but it was decided to change it for the extreme difficulty (Ep I DVD, Making of Documentary)

nu||ifier
02-28-2002, 09:48 AM
looks like you are right from looking at the video more closely.. /me captures the flag and jumps all the way back home : )

Tie Guy
02-28-2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Desslock
Actually a reason a jedi wouldn't do this would be that he needs to save his energy for battle. Also that huge piece of flying metal is getting one boost from the force, not a constant flow if I remeber correctly from the movies.

No, the metal boxes and pipes and such were not getting one boost from the force. It is clear that they are levitating, as they stay level in the air and do not give an inch to gravity. Plus, their relatively slow speed shows that they it wasn't just a burst also.

As for jump, i think that the new system would be alot better than the old. I always hated having no control over the jump, but now you have excellent control, if the theory is correct. In the movie i can see it working either way, although i think it is clear that jedi have no trouble levitating things, despite their size. So, why couldn't they lift themselves? Thats just directing the force on a different object, themselves. Flying would be different, as you need alot of concetration to levitate AND alot of concentration to move about and fight.


PS. I'm so happy, my computer just barely fits the requirements!!!

Pedro The Hutt
02-28-2002, 11:04 AM
Well I believe I once read "A jedi could levitate himself off the floor using the Force.. but not alot higher than as if he pulled himself up by the collar of his shirt" But can't exactly remember where I read it..and if it's an exact quote... I'll have to check all my sources again to see if I wasn't wrong on this ^^"
But basically.. a Jedi can't make himself fly in a spectacular way. Perhaps he can boost his Force Jump more after the initial hop(by pulling himself up a bit perhaps). But exactly flying he cannot. And as it was already stated, it would tire the Jedi way too much to make it worth doing.


Oh and about the flying battle.. don't you mean those two battling on the ramp of the Queen's ship while it was flying ^.^ as seen... read in the novel.


(oh and personally I would hate to see people float all over multiplayer arenas using that new type of Force jump.. a system to slow down your jump at the last second before breaking your legs alright.. but not that your mighty leap ends up in a gentle float to the floor. )