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View Full Version : A few choice words regarding the current trend in JK2 Elitism.


JZA
03-02-2002, 01:10 PM
So, elitism has taken its hold upon the JK2 community. This is a bad thing. I've noticed plenty of posts about how JK1 zoners are going to create various JK2 "Uber-clans" and dominate the game, and to say I'm a little miffed would be an understatement.

Let me set the record straight.

1) There are no genuine "elites" from Jedi Knight on this board. Unless I've missed a post by Kicker, Patton, Aeron, Porkchop, Jeb, Newmodel or Death, and I've looked pretty extensively. And before you ask, WD_Torment is not a JK1 "elite". He is a whining child. Let me illustrate: If an "uber-clan" WERE made, recruiting, say, the top 100 jedi knight players from every discipline, WD_Torment would not make it into the clan. That is how bad he is (He has never achieved a positive score on me, in BGJ FF 1v1, his level & setting of choice. Thats right. Not one POSITIVE SCORE, EVER).

2)Anyone who thinks that JK1 experience or Q3 prowess will benefit them in any way in JK2, is making a very big, unjustified assumption. Superficial similarities such as game engine are no indicator of similarities in gameplay. Even changing something as simple as the speed of movement in Q3 drastically changes the gameplay; how can you even BEGIN to say that Q3 skill will carry over into a starwars game loosely based on the Q3 engine?

The same applies to JK1 skill. JK1 players are archaic and inversatile. The majority of JK1 skill is not transferable. JK1 "elites" restrict themselves to 2 levels: BGJ and oasis (ji for nf gunners). Much of their so-called "skill" is merely muscle-memory of every cubic inch of the level. Example: DSbr_Narz is/was widely regarded as one of the best FF gunners in the game. He would regularly trounce me, in FF oasis, 20 to -5 or better. He suggested we play a FF guns level from massassi; 4 pillars. I won 10-0.

Now, Narz is a pretty versatile player, as JK'ers go. If FF gunning skill is not even transferable between *levels*, what hope has he got of any advantage whatsoever in FF guns in JK2? The same applies to NF'ers, who suffer from even less diversity than FF'ers. I imagine that even a fractional change in speed of movement would ruin any of their so-called skill, in guns or sabers. If you doubt this, just ask one to play with 1 star on force speed. Watch them squirm.

I could go on to mention the vast differences in level structure, gun characteristics, lag handling, saber dynamics and speed that JK2 will bring, but I needn't. The so called "skill" possessed by JK1/q3 elitists will not carry over to JK2.


What *will* carry over to JK2, however, is versatility, maturity, ability to learn quickly, and ability to work as a team; the ability to discover the various nuances of the JK2 dynamics. The majority of JK1 "l33ts", pushing for their Uber-clans and ownz0r board-flaming, are sadly lacking in these areas, and will ultimately, be left behind in JK2.

Elitists be warned. You're in for a shock.

SpiffyTheDog
03-02-2002, 01:41 PM
That post deserves a thumbs up.
http://www.snipermonkey.com/misc/random%20pics/thumbsupMAN!.jpg

Tay-Mar
03-02-2002, 02:47 PM
Ah a voice of reason is heard above the bluff and bluster !


Not being a zoner I really don't care who's the best at JK1. We shall see what happens when the game's out........won't we !

JK_DarthMaul
03-02-2002, 04:12 PM
Great Post JZA:c3po:

SyKoTiCWretched
03-02-2002, 09:14 PM
ah jza the voice of reason as always finally got this post to come up so just thought id respond

WD_ToRMeNt
03-02-2002, 09:19 PM
Umm actually I did get a positive score on you.

JK_DarthMaul
03-03-2002, 12:59 AM
We need PHYSICAL EVIDENCE!

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 01:53 AM
OR ELSE IT'S TO THE CHOP WITH YE! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

+Nimbus+
03-03-2002, 03:03 AM
Good lecture, a lot of people are over their heards, I am good at a lot of games, just kinda fun, Torment you are cool and all, but like when you said you got a positive score, maybe you did, it doesn't really matter.

[SICK]Vomit
03-03-2002, 10:27 AM
I think it matters. JZA is talking against the very thing he is talking about. So if Torment can discredit one part, then that tears apart the rest of his perceived greatness. If JAZ and his sidekicks Spiffy and DarthMaul would have bothered to actually read the post, they would have found they all end on the same note....that we will all be noobs.

JK_DarthMaul
03-03-2002, 01:48 PM
Maybe you disreguarded to read something. I never stated ANYWHERE that I would be good at JK2. I dont understand where you got that....I know we'll all be newbies, but anyways, JZA was talking about JK, Dark Forces 2 incase you didn't READ. Also, why are you just giving US bull****? What about SykoticWretched and Tay-mar? They both also reguarded the post as brilliance. I think you should asess your accusations and watch your little 5 year old mouth, before you say something that can be countered easily and make you look more like a fool than you already do.

*************************************************

ALSO: We are NOT his "sidekicks" I guess since you agree with Torment that makes you his Sidekick? Yeah, I think so. So lets all play by Vomits rules! ANYONE WHO AGREES WITH ANOTHER IS NOW A SIDEKICK! Well Vomit, seems like we have over a thousand sidekicks now, dont we?

JZA
03-03-2002, 03:47 PM
So if Torment can discredit one part, then that tears apart the rest of his perceived greatness.


Firstly, denying an accusation isn't discrediting it. I genuinely don't believe he's ever got a positive score on me, in BGJ FF 1v1. How is his denial "discrediting" this? I can deny his denial... does this mean I'm "discrediting" him? Only relevant evidence would discredit it. Like a screenshot. The fact remains, he's never come close to beating me.

HOWEVER, this was hardly the point. What "perceived greatness" are you referring to? My level of skill is completely irrelevant. My point would be just as valid if I had lost every game I'd ever played, 10 to -20. Hell, the crux of the post was just that- that JK1/q3 skill is *not transferable* to JK2.


As for this:


JZA is talking against the very thing he is talking about

How so? I made the following points:

1)There are, so far, no REAL jk "elites" talking on these boards. The majority of them haven't been seen for months/years in any JK-related forums.

2) JK1/q3 skill will not be transferable to JK2 for a variety of reasons, previously stated.

I don't see how these two separate points can be in contradiction.


If JAZ and his sidekicks Spiffy and DarthMaul would have bothered to actually read the post, they would have found they all end on the same note....that we will all be noobs.

I agree that everyone will be newbies at the start of JK2. This may have been the conclusion reached at the end of the "uber-clan" posts, by people who disagree with the "uber-clan" idea. However, *some* people obviously believe otherwise, or they wouldn't have posted it in the first place. My post was intended to dispel any lingering elitist views about transferable skill that may remain on these boards.

[SICK]OLMofo
03-03-2002, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by JZA
So, elitism has taken its hold upon the JK2 community. This is a bad thing. I've noticed plenty of posts about how JK1 zoners are going to create various JK2 "Uber-clans" and dominate the game, and to say I'm a little miffed would be an understatement.


2)Anyone who thinks that JK1 experience or Q3 prowess will benefit them in any way in JK2, is making a very big, unjustified assumption. Superficial similarities such as game engine are no indicator of similarities in gameplay. Even changing something as simple as the speed of movement in Q3 drastically changes the gameplay; how can you even BEGIN to say that Q3 skill will carry over into a starwars game loosely based on the Q3 engine?


I could go on to mention the vast differences in level structure, gun characteristics, lag handling, saber dynamics and speed that JK2 will bring, but I needn't. The so called "skill" possessed by JK1/q3 elitists will not carry over to JK2.


Elitists be warned. You're in for a shock.

LMFAO!

How long have you been playing FPS'S?

I'm not claiming to be an Elitest when I first buy the dam game foo!
Explain to me how I myself can go out and purchase, RTCW and MOHAA after that. Installed, finished both SP sides at the hardest levels, and move right in to the MP like I was playing it b4?

Wouldnt happen to be because of all my Elite Force or Q3A experience would it? nah. Basic FPS skills have nothing to do with the mechanics of any game. You either got it or you dont, simple as that!

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by JK_DarthMaul
Maybe you disreguarded to read something. I never stated ANYWHERE that I would be good at JK2. I dont understand where you got that....I know we'll all be newbies

Roger that.

I just thought it should get a thumbs up, and if it should get one, it should be from the coolest dude ever, thuus the pic. That doesn't make me his ****ing sidekick, I don't even know that guy in the least. I didn't even remember his name until i saw all these replies.

[SICK]Vomit
03-03-2002, 06:12 PM
JZA, my bad. I thought you were re-visiting an issue that has been put to rest by Deathbolt...many times over in this forum. We all agree we will be noobs. I just didn't see the need for you mention your superior record against Torment, no need to tear into him. I don't agree with some of his post, but we can still have fun and posture without taking it personal.

Now regarding Sidekick Maul and Spiffy. Did I strike a nerve showing who you guys really are? I'm really impressed Sidekick Maul that you are able to construct a complete sentence and not just respond "spiff is god" and your usual 16 year old rants.

Not too hard to figure out. You came into these boards as trolls, and have the honor of the most deleted post in a 2 day span. JZA makes his first post, 2 days within your first post and you guys don't tear into him? Has sidekick written all over it.

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 06:19 PM
If you want to look arouund these boards, you will see a whole damn lot of posts by people and we didnt tear into them.

Kudos on that logic, vomit. Kudos.

[SICK]Vomit
03-03-2002, 06:24 PM
I would like to see a link to such a thread. I would provide some links, but most of them have been deleted.

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 06:36 PM
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33279
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33463
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31281
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30984
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32997
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32400
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32616
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32754
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32661
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31267
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32217

There's a few for starters. I could get more but I resolved not to spend more than 2 minutes copying and pasting.

http://yota.drac.org/images/retards.jpg

Good show, vomit.

JK_DarthMaul
03-03-2002, 06:39 PM
You want to know the reason we didn't tear into JZA? A few reasons.
1. We weren't stoned at that time, we were earlier, JZA's post came later.
2. His post totally dominated every else's I mean look at the logic and insight in it, you cant deny that it beats the other posts jibberish about Phantom Knights Elite Teaser Banner or something! We only flamed the things we found completely lackluster of intelligence.

JZA
03-03-2002, 06:50 PM
OLMofo, you're completely mistaken. How can FPS skill NOT be derived from the mechanics of a game?

By "skill" I was referring to ability to win multiplayer games. Your reference to single player games is a moot point - winning a single player FPS uses virtually none of the skills required in multiplayer.

If it were otherwise, out-of-the-box newbies would be as good as the multiplayer champions.

If you think any moderate level of multiplayer skill is transferable, try using your q3 skills to beat any decent JK'er in JK FF(this is NOT a comment about "jk players being better than q3 players". I'm using it to illustrate the non-transferability of game-specific skill). That jump is going to be comparable to the jump from q3 to JK2.

The game dynamics have EVERYTHING to do with it - afterall, "skill" within a certain game is defined as the ability to manipulate the game parameters to your advantage. I cannot seriously believe that you don't understand this.

JK_DarthMaul
03-03-2002, 06:54 PM
In lesser terms, the running speed is always a variable, the shooting speed, recoil (yes or no), jumping height, the speed at which your gun comes up when you change weapons, reloading, to name a few off the top.

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 07:04 PM
Plus, there's always the whole tactics issue. Where would a person go, how you think they would attack, how to deal, etc...

Example - They just made a single player version of Counter-strike, and a very large portion of being good at that game is TACTICS. One of my friends got the single player, he kicks ass at that game, but sucks ass at multiplayer CS.

JZA
03-03-2002, 07:13 PM
That's right. A surprisingly small change in the variables can result in a very large gameplay difference - it's called sensitive dependence on initial conditions, and is the basis for mathematical modelling of chaos theory and dynamic systems - of which multiplayer gaming is a (very complex) example :)

[SICK]Vomit
03-03-2002, 07:21 PM
Spiff, I hope that's your attempt at humor.....show me ONE link that you have replied to that you provided some constructive comments or would lead me to believe you didn't tear into the thread's author.

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 07:22 PM
In even lesser terms - When you try to jump over something, and just barely make it over by an inch, then do it again and jump an inch lower and fall forward and break your face.

JK_DarthMaul
03-03-2002, 07:22 PM
Umm, the first one does...

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by [SICK]Vomit
Spiff, I hope that's your attempt at humor.....show me ONE link that you have replied to that you provided some constructive comments or would lead me to believe you didn't tear into the thread's author.


Look at the skandinavian one again. And no, we didnt do this purely for this post.

http://www.fazed.net/humor/images/diltard.jpg

[SICK]Vomit
03-03-2002, 07:39 PM
Don't know to laugh at the attempt or laugh at you. Just show me a post previous to our little discussion. But the point is you can't.

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 08:10 PM
The post was previous to you saying that you wanted us to give positive comments. And you know what? **** you. You think you're so much better than us ("I don't know whether to laugh...") why? What, are you the only one here who is allowed to flame? Are you better because you've been posting longer? Basically you find it fun to point out the errors and shortcomings of others on the internet of all places. You must be quite the ladies man.

JK_DarthMaul
03-03-2002, 08:29 PM
Spiffy, I dont know whether to laugh, or roll on the floor laughing.:p

[TE]HoffenKill
03-03-2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by JZA
OLMofo, you're completely mistaken. How can FPS skill NOT be derived from the mechanics of a game?

By "skill" I was referring to ability to win multiplayer games. Your reference to single player games is a moot point - winning a single player FPS uses virtually none of the skills required in multiplayer.

If it were otherwise, out-of-the-box newbies would be as good as the multiplayer champions.


If you remotely think this to be a true statement my friend, then I truly believe you must not play many other games besides JK.

Any person who doesn't play the SP of any new game before venturing to the MP side, is ridiculously foolish. All your basic skills for that game start at the single player side, those who don't are the ones standing around getting their team-mates killed. They take twice as long to aquire the skills necessary for that game to become an Elite player. Winning MP games still uses the basic principles involved in playing the SP side of that game.

JZA, I'm an EF/Q3A veteran from major clans in those respective games. Those skills have allowed me the smooth transition to play other games and become "Elite" in other games SP or MP.
Such as UT, or Max Payne, MOHAA, and RTCW. Maybe the fact of the matter is some people dont make that transition like some of us do. ( nothing personal :) )

Confusing the board posters here with your profound knowledge of the English vocabulary, does not shadow the fact that what your stating is utterly and completely false.
If you wish to further argue this moot point, I shall not, as I will wait till the game arrives to prove the point.

Kudos OLMofo

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 09:21 PM
That may be true if you only play quake 3, because the bastards at id were too unoriginal to think of a good single player story other than the "tournament." Now look past quake 3 to some GOOD fps games.

[TE]HoffenKill
03-03-2002, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by SpiffyTheDog
That may be true if you only play quake 3, because the bastards at id were too unoriginal to think of a good single player story other than the "tournament." Now look past quake 3 to some GOOD fps games.

Then I take you've never played RTCW or MOHAA single or multi??
I can go on and on cause I've played many a FPS or 3rd for that matter. They're all good to me.

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 09:45 PM
uhh...in those games the single player is far different than the multi....and yes, i have them both

Zodiac
03-03-2002, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by [TE]HoffenKill

Any person who doesn't play the SP of any new game before venturing to the MP side, is ridiculously foolish. All your basic skills for that game start at the single player side, those who don't are the ones standing around getting their team-mates killed. They take twice as long to aquire the skills necessary for that game to become an Elite player. Winning MP games still uses the basic principles involved in playing the SP side of that game.


err.. I have never played JK SP, but that didn't prevent me from gaining enough skill, in a relative short amount of time after I started MP playing it, to win my first MP tournaments.....

All I did in JK SP was "use the cheatword to skip levels (jediwannabe, eriamjh, red5? lol :p)", but that was only to see the story. :) I never tried to play the SP for over 5 minutes, cuz the MP was much more fun.

Sooo I'm just saying that I agree with spiffy & jza: u don't have to play the SP to get the basic skills for MP in a fast way. It's just that some people have some sorta "feeling" of how to play a MP game, and some don't. SP might have some influence on that, but not as big as u say it has.

Zodiac
03-03-2002, 10:07 PM
sorry for my bad english. im from holland.. it's not my 1st language..

[SICK]Vomit
03-03-2002, 10:12 PM
I'm not flaming, I'm just pointing out that facts. The fact is you cannot provide a link to a post where you didn't flamed someone before this link and before you had your knuckles rapped by the Mods. You provided a lame link to a post your sidekick posted to cover yourself. Good distraction tactic, but the fact remains you lied and were caught.

So why don't you just dropped the Anti SW facade, go into your closed and get the Light Saber you received at Xmas. Go ahead, now turn it on....Now, don't you feel better?

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by [SICK]Vomit
Don't know to laugh at the attempt or laugh at you. Just show me a post previous to our little discussion. But the point is you can't.

You're right, those were facts you were pointing out. And wait, now he's my sidekick, or am i who's sidekick? You seem to like the word "sidekick." Jesus, this is like when they get arrested in the movie Mallrats, but anyway, when did I say i don't like star wars? I'm not like a fanatic or anything but i never said i don't like it, otherwise i wouldn't be posting on jediknightii.net. Think about it. And for the record, the post was made BEFORE YOU ASKED FOR US TO FIND ONE. Want to compare the times? You do that.

[TE]HoffenKill
03-03-2002, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by SpiffyTheDog
uhh...in those games the single player is far different than the multi....and yes, i have them both

Lemme say this in plain english 1 last time:

Did you or did you not use those skills that you played in the SP of both those games, in the MP game(s), regardless of difference between the two types of games?

SpiffyTheDog
03-03-2002, 10:45 PM
I tried the multiplayer before the SP in both games, and i used my MP skills to kick ass in SP because th AI kind of sucks.

[TE]HoffenKill
03-03-2002, 11:06 PM
O god nevermind.. I see you lot arghh nevermind

[SICK]Vomit
03-03-2002, 11:25 PM
If you want to look arouund these boards, you will see a whole damn lot of posts by people and we didnt tear into them. You made that quote today at 6:09 pm server time.

Your sidekick Maul then posted the lame nice post at 7:00 pm server time. Gesh, at least challenge me here, will ya?

hmmm, maybe that's an answer to this. That would actually answer the main point to JZA's thread, and allow us to settle our discussion proper like. That is, SICK challenges the Sidekick Brothers to JK2 CTF.

It would be better if you can stack your team with JK veterans, so that we can see which side adapts faster to this game.

Whatcha say?

SpiffyTheDog
03-04-2002, 12:50 AM
Well that's reasonable. I could argue that we didnt get the point of your earlier post and that we had to have participated in that but you wouldn't believe me. It's spiffy to finish this on at least semi friendly terms with you. You're on. And for the last time we're not sidekicks to anyone, dammit.

[SICK]Vomit
03-04-2002, 08:05 AM
LOL, ok I'll drop the sidekick issue.

Look, you can have fun and maybe sometimes contribute without crossing that line. You have to understand the irony here. Vomit, a SICK member that has nearly been banned in ever forum is giving advice on forum etiquette. Gad, I hope SICK doesn't kick me.

But anyway, I look forward to our match.

[SICK]OLMofo
03-04-2002, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by [TE]HoffenKill
O god nevermind.. I see you lot arghh nevermind

Dude do yourself a favor and dont bother stressing the point.
They just dont get it! I'll be happy to assist Vomit so lemme know woohoo!

JZA
03-04-2002, 10:48 AM
Who adapts faster to the game is not based on previous skill. It *may well be* that the best players in q3 are the fastest learners, and will also be the faster learners in jk2. This doesn't prove that skill is transferable; it only *reinforces* my point that the qualities other than skill which are transferable are those qualities which facilitate the quickest development of skill.

If you really want to prove your point, use your q3 skills to beat a partner and I in JK, BGJ FF.

[SICK]Vomit
03-04-2002, 12:31 PM
JZA, I get your point now. Even though you stated that JK1/Q3 skills will not be transferable, I had it in my head you still think JK1's will hold the advantage. My bad.

Not that I mind getting slaughtered by you in Jk1, but I don't have the game. I think Jk2 is a still a good neutral game to look forward to and hope we can arrange a friendly scrimmage. I think it would be a cool match setup...plus I bet we could learn from each other.

[SICK]OLMofo
03-04-2002, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by JZA

If you really want to prove your point, use your q3 skills to beat a partner and I in JK, BGJ FF.

That makes no sense to someone who doesn't even own either of those games lmao. Prove YOUR point: You and a partner beat my 2v1 in a game of neither of us own yet lol?

SpiffyTheDog
03-04-2002, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by [SICK]OLMofo


That makes no sense to someone who doesn't even own either of those games lmao. Prove YOUR point: You and a partner beat my 2v1 in a game of neither of us own yet lol?

He's talking about how Jedi Knight, the FIRST GAME, is different from quake 3. If a person who had only played JK (JK means the FIRST ONE) played quake 3 against the just-q3 pllayers he'd get his ass kicked, and if a just-q3 player played some just-JK players in JK he'd get his ass kicked. Thus the challenge to play him.

-=[M@ximus]=-
03-04-2002, 06:11 PM
well he has been contradictin him self over and over
he goes on about , l33ts and they are in for a shock
yet he goes on about how good he is , and how he gets scores against peeps of - numbers

well if that aint l33t talk then i dont know what is

peeps that truly are l33t are the ones , that even when they beat u , the commend how good u did , that u where a hard battle , and make u feel alittle bit decent....
and dont brag after about it and make peeps look bad

JZA has made it clear too me that he dont like me , and over the years on WP games , he was an l33tist and still is

when he gets beat he leave's i know
i beat him ONCE and i mean that , weather he says i did or didnt i dont care , in NF BJG , in a tourney years ago , it was like 3-2 i got him by damn fluke , he started blamin lag and stuff like that , then left

so please

u post about the l33tist better watch out , i think u need to look in a mirror , and i know alot of peeps say the same m8

i have tried too cause problems with the new JK2 stuff for WP , cause u dont like me , and cause u aint got what u want
i was the one with others that got the fourm , the irc channel and have started messagin peeps on icq/irc/msn

u aint done anything , so please , dont make me out too be bad , when i am doin lots of things for the good

i wont be lookin at this thread again , cause i just thought it funny the way u go on!

True l33ts arnt the ones that beat eveyone , but the ones that are friendly , have fun games , and get one with peeps
there the ones that are l33t , so i welcome all newbies and i hope you come too wireplay u will be made welcome!

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
03-04-2002, 06:27 PM
3 THINGS....


Maximus......BRAVO!!! Well said.

Torment.......one on one baby!

JZA and the Dope Twins......Can I please spectate your match against the Sick guys...its gonna be classic!

lol

This banana needs an enema!!

SJD_Culexus
03-04-2002, 06:43 PM
Indeed bravo :)

Hypocrisy is so deeply ingrained nowadays it's hard to notice. You see, claiming to be 'elite' is only one part of being, the complete jerk, that an eliteist is.

The rest of it comes from merely stating (bragging) about some score or another, or any other kind of stupid, pointless arrogance. It's all very well trying to put your point across, but some people seem to enjoy putting others down and being correct all the time that things get out of hand and go beyond the point of neccessary and just arent worth your pride.

You're certain to disagree. They always do.

It is a shame to see players who have such great potential allow ego and image to engulf their abilities as a person, a part of a community and all the others aspects that make a game fun other than winning.

I myself am looking forward to playing the game and making friends. Games come and go, but friends stick around. It's nice to be good at whatever you do, but it's nicer to be surrounded by people who like you.

just my 2 cents worth,

luck to all.

SpiffyTheDog
03-04-2002, 06:50 PM
Biocyte - Quiet you, it's just a match, and you'd lag us if even the slightest bit. And stop calling us twins everybody, am I like his lackey or something now, wherever he goes then there i am? The past few posts on this by me and he's nowhere to be seen, so stop acting like i'm silent bob to his jay.

Maximus - You can try to make it look like we were flaming you, but it was just a debate, and you've never played me, and i never said I was "l33t" or a "l33tist" in any way, so when you make a mistake ina debate just admit it, don't go through a drawn-out post about how you think we don't like you.

[TE]DarthBob
03-04-2002, 06:51 PM
Osyrus, interesting post. In the Elite Force world, we have the Elite Force League (EFleague.com) with it's own servers. Is there a such a league and supported servers for JK2? I think the admins for EFL are discussing the possibility to support JK2, but would that be a duplication of effort?

Spiff, the dope twins comment, sidekick thing comes from Darthmaul posting "Spiffy is God" and other colorful langue to all the flame posts you two did before you guys got in trouble. It's the same point you didn't see with Vomit. I'm not sure why you're acting so shocked and surprised. Maybe on the next forum you pounce on you will give your entrance a bit more thought and not be so obvious. And datestamps...remember that datestamps are recorded for all post.

Tay-Mar
03-04-2002, 06:57 PM
Could it be.......... ?
Nah......... it can't ..... !

Another human being that plays games on-line to meet ppl and join in with others as part of a community, I must be dreaming !

Sarcasm aside, it's so rare to read a post like this, it's quite nice to know that I call the person who wrote it 'Friend'.

I've spent a lot of time around gameing communities, met many ppl, most of whom wouldn't look in my direction because of my average skill at some games, others I have met have taken the time and effort to help me enjoy these games, these ppl I still speak to and call friends.

To all those players who've passed me by with a 'Stoopid noob' remark can live in their Ivory Tower and delude themselves into thinking they're great because I couldn't beat them.

Thanks for your time.

JK_DarthMaul
03-04-2002, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Vomit

Not that I mind getting slaughtered by you in Jk1, but I don't have the game. I think Jk2 is a still a good neutral game to look forward to and hope we can arrange a friendly scrimmage. I think it would be a cool match setup...plus I bet we could learn from each other.

Good Analogy Spiffy, but I want to be Silent Bob. ;)

In relation to the Quote, I was just thinking, This is going to be great, Its like all the fighters here who play JK vs. everyone here who plays q3/ef/some other fps, it's like an all out war, this is EPIC!

-=[M@ximus]=-
03-04-2002, 07:14 PM
spliffy? do i know u
i am asuming your JZA's m8 and are on WP under a diderent name there?

i dont know your name here so i dont know
i think Scottt maybe? possibley Ani?

maybe wrong

but i am afraid u where and are flaming me , lots of peeps have said the same thing , and i speak to everyone , the peeps tryin to get things takin from me , forget , i talk to everyone , and everyone tells me there real opinion , and i try and correct things from there , so far , everyone is happy

only u few guys aint
your welcome to stay and play

but know this , u slag/harrash/upset/anoy/or take the piss out of anyone that helps me run JK2 on WP or any newbie/crap player/other l33tish wannabes the u will be delt with , i have spokin too WP admins and they are happy with what i have said , i dont lie in what i say , i have told em , what is going on , and what i feel should be done ,and they are happy with that

l33t's or the noobs not the noobs , infact the noobs or the l33ts too me

i am friends with anyone , and everyone , i will talk/play/message them , its your problem if u dont want too be a friend of mine , but u WILL NOT disruptt the fourm/servers/community cause u aint happy cause u dont run things , i am fair and i listen too everyone , and i am more than positive everyone will agree with that! weather u do or not!

http://forums.wireplay.co.uk/forumdisplay.php3?forumid=344

is the JK2 WP fourm , i hope i can spam that abit , cause i want all newbie's , and peeps that wanna be in a fun community ta join

hope too see some of u guys :)
i will even let u kick my ass at JK1 if u like , i still play it abit!

JK_DarthMaul
03-04-2002, 08:10 PM
Spiffy isn't from Wireplay, you're mistaken. And what's this Elite crap coming back AGAIN? SWEEEEEET MERCIFUL CRAP! Nobody is elite yet, we're all newbs now stop contra-freaking-dicting yourself and pretending you're one of authority.

SyKoTiCWretched
03-04-2002, 09:02 PM
jza wasnt trying to be elite he was just stating facts trying to disuade you from believing that torment was a so called elite i know both jza's skill at jk and torments skill at jk and i can safely say that jza's statement is true the fact was he didnt come on here trying to be elite he was just stating facts maximus you beat him at nf sabers a setting he rarely plays and he may have complained but thats the past you still fail to grasp his simple concept that he stated which is game skills are not transfereable to other games that fact he even quoted scores was to prove his point not to brag if he wanted to brag i gaurentee you he wouldnt start with beating torment into negs

-=[M@ximus]=-
03-04-2002, 09:43 PM
what a load of crap , games skillz trasferable

the simple fact is , if u can play , u can play
if u cant , u cant
all the crap about i can carry my l33t skillz over
JZA did always play NF sabres i am afraid m8 , so if u know him that well , u should have known that
he played everyone on WP NF sabres

and as i said , why brag , if he beat him , that would wind torn more because he just says , yeah what ever m8
but no , he has to make a point on the score and stuff like that

simple fact

the thread has been contradicted!

SyKoTiCWretched
03-04-2002, 10:07 PM
im afraid your simple mind cant grasp what we have so plainly stated and if he did play nf sabers its not what he was good at anybody knows that im sorry i wasted my time trying to explain it to you idiots

SpiffyTheDog
03-04-2002, 10:51 PM
Dude, i'm not trying to flame you. We had a discussion about game skills. I never insulted your intelligence or anything about you, and also I just got here, look at my post record man compare it to other people, i don't think i'm l33t in ANY game so stop thinking i'm flaming you. I'm not. If I wanted to I could call you gay, call you stupid, or anything, but i don't. If you want to see a flame war look back at some of my posts with vomit. In the meantime i'm sorry if you think i was, i'm really not trying to.

JK_DarthMaul
03-04-2002, 10:52 PM
THE SYKOTIC WRETCHED IS RIGHT!

And Dammit Maximus, You're really starting to piss me off, You dont know bull****. This LONG discussion was pretty much EXTINCT until you brought up another freaking point. I swear to god lately I've been wanting to punch through this ****ing monitor and rip out your little throat and show an apple down it and put it BACK IN BECAUSE YOU DWONT ****ING LISTEN AND YOU WONT ****ING STOP BEING ANNOYING! JESUS CHRIST I'M GOING ****ING INSANE GOD DAMMIT!

[TE]HoffenKill
03-04-2002, 11:43 PM
Well no need for such banter dude.. A little constructive criticism for all is what keeps the mind sharp and active throught out your life.

After reading the interview with the developers, seems like all in the game will be different anyway lol :)

Be well

Hoff

Saient
03-05-2002, 12:21 AM
JZA.. Something very stupid lies In between your keyboard and the back of your chair to say it lightly and unlike you Im not gonna be dropping names of players and fictional scores for a game you know why? cause it would make me look like an as$
something that you accompished with great *skill* (untransferable from previous games)

Ofcourse Skill is transerferable and that skill is based on:

1: how to use the mouse and look around
2: and walking

thats the basic skill you need.

I play loads of FPS games and jumping into one is real easy, my girlfriend on the other hand isn't so used to using the mouse and keyboard and gets lost all the time.

my point is that previous experience with *Any* FPS game at a multi player level will give you the basics and that skill will transfer
but more advanced game mechanics will have to be relearned so to speak.

Quake1 example: Armor comes back in X(ammont of seconds)
Jedi Knight example: Force absorb lasts X(Secs with 3 stars)X(secs with 4 stars) ect ect
Quake3 example: Quad damage in X seconds

these are more "advanced basics" of item collecting and one you know the map layout you can compesate for time to recollect these items.

I believe what your talking about is AIM, Physics and timing of attacks. Which will be different for sure and players from previous FPS multi will have to compensate.

Now if your aim was better than mine you'd do more damage to me but if I was always equiped with armor and force ( Variable Item A + B) or whatever then I could still kill you cause I'd have more protection and would dominate the items

If the game doesn't have (Pickups) then we'd both have an even playing field where aim comes into play and you would win.

[SICK]Vomit
03-05-2002, 12:54 AM
OK, group hug everyone.

We've all said our peace and as Hoff just mentioned, there is a post on the main board from the dev's that might make this whole thing moot.

I want to take a quote from Darthmaul before he went ballastic:
In relation to the Quote, I was just thinking, This is going to be great, Its like all the fighters here who play JK vs. everyone here who plays q3/ef/some other fps, it's like an all out war, this is EPIC!

So lets end this on a good note and look forward to our first match. I will organize the Q3/EF squad and Spiffy, JZA or Deathmaul can organize the JK troops. Now this should be fun!

WD_ToRMeNt
03-05-2002, 01:13 AM
Sorry, but I must have missed the post from the devs, would you mind giving me a link or telling me what topic to look at?

JaG|Kaiser
03-05-2002, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by JK_DarthMaul

I like waffles! Tasty waffles!

[TE]HoffenKill
03-05-2002, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Saient

Ofcourse Skill is transerferable and that skill is based on:

1: how to use the mouse and look around
2: and walking

thats the basic skill you need.

my point is that previous experience with *Any* FPS game at a multi player level will give you the basics and that skill will transfer
but more advanced game mechanics will have to be relearned so to speak.




FINALLY! Someone who also has some basic common sense!
I couldnt have said it any better my friend, its exactly what I wanted to state in my first post but I think they didnt take it that way.

Lets see how far JZA trys to disassemble and manipulate a basic common sense statement, and turn it into a heap of gumba that board posters here flutter their eyelids at lol!

Kudos Saient

GSA_Mitth_
03-05-2002, 01:49 PM
I think the word "Elite" is often abused on the zone.
Just look at the zone and at most of the Info of recruiting games:
"Join the Elite clan of the Zone" "We are Elite, join us".

Even some people begin to speak really weird and call themselves 'elite'.

Like Maximus said: Elite players show good sportsmanship and even when the own you or they have beaten you so bad you had to cry :p they tell you how well you played and tell you about the cool moves you made.

Just dont forget that Elitism can only be achieved when you are the very best of all players !!!
How can you be Elite the first day the game is out in the stores ??

---------------------------------------------------------
I bought Q3 only to train for JK2 .... but when i played MOHAA (uses the same Q3 engine) it felt so different i couldnt bunnyhop or fire the rockets so easily as in Q3.
I was really phisicly-handicapt ... i was sooooo bad at MOHAA while i won every Q3 match ...

Ssoo i now play JK from time to time ... not to actually train ... but only to play some of the Old Skool players who return ... (i like it :D )
---------------------------------------------------------------

While this topic also went about clans ...

IF you want to join a clan on the zone ... or are planning to, just stick with your old one or join atleast a 2 year-old clan ...
Most of the so called 'newbie-clans' do not have enough experience to actually get one up for JK and then change it for JK2 ... (ok you can start a JK2 clan ... but whats the use ???)

GSA_Mitth_
Captain of the Global Starfighter "SV" Alpha Unit.

PS. i enjoy the zone ... only those Elite-wannabees are really dumb.

JZA
03-05-2002, 03:56 PM
Of *course* the ability to mouselook and walk is transferred. They are common to EVERY FPS game. Most players master these half way through the first SINGLE PLAYER game they play; as such their commonality is redundant in terms of multiplayer skill.

However, game-specific skills, such as bunny-hopping in halflife, force jumping in jedi knight, and intimate knowledge of lag are GAME-SPECIFIC skills. Everyone knows how to use the W/S/A/D keys to move; but I seriously doubt your movement technique in q3 will help you in JK. HOW you move is important; not just the fact that you CAN.

Please, use some common sense.

Zodiac
03-05-2002, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Saient
my point is that previous experience with *Any* FPS game at a multi player level will give you the basics and that skill will transfer
but more advanced game mechanics will have to be relearned so to speak.


I've played a FPS before= Jedi Knight. And I've gotten quite decent at it :p. But my saberfighting skills didn't help me at all when I started playing Counter Strike.
Aiming is one of the basic skills in most shoot em up FPS games like CS, UT, Q3, MOHAA, RTCW, etc, and my JK-skills didn't help me at all to learn it.
In JK saberfights you don't have to accurately aim, you don't have to put ur crosshair over him to hit him with ur saber.

You said that "previous experience with *ANY* FPS game at a multiplayer level will give u the basics and that skill will transfer". I disagree. I consider Aiming as one of those basic skills, and JK is an FPS and it didn't help me learn to aim at CS or UT at all.

Zodiac
03-05-2002, 06:53 PM
It's just that JK is such a DIFFERENT game than all those other FPSs out there.

JaG|Kaiser
03-05-2002, 07:35 PM
But you played sabers. Had you played guns in Jk, you would have had that general experience to transfer over. I'm not sure why this isn't apparent.

I played sabers as well, and the whole timing aspect totally transfered over to Tribes 1. I dunno, maybe it was my "Timing the shot" skill that made the difference.

WD_ToRMeNt
03-05-2002, 07:52 PM
That's one reason I had no respect for NF sabs. No aim, no item timing, didn't have to press many buttons, was horribly dependant on lag. A FFer or a NF gunner should take to jk2 easier then a saberist.

[SICK]OLMofo
03-05-2002, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by JZA


However, game-specific skills, such as bunny-hopping in halflife, force jumping in jedi knight, and intimate knowledge of lag are GAME-SPECIFIC skills. Everyone knows how to use the W/S/A/D keys to move; but I seriously doubt your movement technique in q3 will help you in JK. HOW you move is important; not just the fact that you CAN.

Please, use some common sense.

If you would just stop and read the previous posts, and stop over analyzing it, youd see that was the original point in the first place. Not once was it ever said game specific sense, just common everyday stuff to online fps's, gamer stuff.

Use more than common sense there please.

GSA_Mitth_
03-06-2002, 04:33 AM
you know there is a huge difference between games ya know ...

For instance JK and MotS ...
same engine, same characters... but !!! different Force powers and weapons ...

if you were to be a very good FF Gunner at JK you may have some real trouble playing against a good FF Gunner from MotS .. and visa versa ofcourse.

the only thing that will be the same are the NF Sabz games ...

So you see even with the same Engine but different factors the game will be hard to adept.
So what do you think a combo between Q3 and JK make you think you have a first strike in JK2 ????

the only gamers you might have an advantage to are 12-year-old kids wich have just learned how to restart their pc.

and now for something completely different
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/images/screens/61.jpg

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
03-06-2002, 03:58 PM
Guys if you have played Quake2 you can play JK2. A FPS is a FPS. So you have force powers, that will prolly be the only thing making this game unique.

It will be similiar to Q2, Q3, Heretic2 and EF.

You all havent mentioned who is actually making the game.

Raven Software.

And if history proves me right it will feel very familiar to anyone that has played any of the games I mentioned above.

Period.

Yes we will all be n00bs to a degree, but it will not be a drastic as some of you make it seem.

EF is Quake 3 with a ST theme and different weapons oh and it is slower.

Thats it.

They are both GREAT games, but very similiar. And if there is one thing that Raven knows how to do it is FPS.

So stop the trash talking and the analyzing and all the other monkey doo doo.

Get ready for a hell of a game.

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
03-06-2002, 04:00 PM
If you havent seen this here it is.....


http://gamesdomain.com/gdreview/depart/mar02/jedilog.html

SpiffyTheDog
03-06-2002, 06:31 PM
[QB]the only gamers you might have an advantage to are 12-year-old kids wich have just learned how to restart their pc. [QB]

Hey when I was 12 people were paying me to make them some damn fine websites, and that's when I built my first computer, damn you! Although now all these computers are coming out that were made for idiots, and so the young'ns will have no computer knowledge.


But anyway biocyte, if force powers are the "only thing different from quake 3," then we're in for one ****ty game. When in quake 3 does a guy speed past you and cut your throat open with a lightsaber? In quake 3 are you aiming when the gun is ripped from your hands? What about being strangled by invisible hands? Force powers aren't just little assets of the game, try to play without using them and prepare to get your ass owned...

nK_Archangel
03-06-2002, 08:07 PM
I only have a few things to say here.

First of all, I hope against hope that the very fact that so many people from so many DIFFERENT FPS backgrounds are interested in JO will mean that there will be a few more intelligent players to interact with on the Zone.

Secondly, as an ex-'elite' JK gunner, I can say that a large amount of the viciousness seen in the JK community is the result of people desperately clinging to the allure of playing in the Star Wars universe whilst being forced - due to general community apathy and game dynamics issues - to play a very limited array of styles and levels.

Either you were a nf/ff saberist in BGJ, a ff gunner in Canyone Oasis or a nf gunner in Ji Oasis. I thought that, JZA, that your whole chaos theory/muscle memory theory was rather good at explaining the processes going on in mastering these maps.

Even though we all inherently rebelled against the idea of playing the EXACT same map over and over and over again, we kept going. Obviously frustration levels and 'elitism' deriving from not wanting to accept failure after 3 YEARS of playing the same level contributed to this viciousness.


Thirdly, I think somehow that JO will be different. Of COURSE we're going to have the requisite number of very very immature individuals crowding the servers.

HOWEVER, the fact that the game will have a strong following BOTH on the Zone AND on other server-services like Gamespy etc will ensure that there isn't quite the same level of intense, warping focus that resulted in JK.

If you get sick and tired of the inane banter going on at Zone HQ, all you have to do is fire up the in-game browser and away you go...very nice...Of course, if you just want a bit of a chat with other JO's, you can drop into the Zone...Nice balance if you ask me.

=)

JK_DarthMaul
03-06-2002, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt
That's one reason I had no respect for NF sabs. No aim, no item timing, didn't have to press many buttons, was horribly dependant on lag. A FFer or a NF gunner should take to jk2 easier then a saberist.

*laughs* So you're saying someone who always uses Guns is going to be better then then someone who always uses sabers?

<sarcasm> OF COURSE THATS TRUE BECAUSE OF THIS

1. Sabers take NO timing and NO tactics

2. Sabers you dont need to strafe jump and swing then spin and hit the other guy trying to slash your back while theres another guy gripping you.

</sarcasm>

Get smart man...Guns wont carry over to Sabers...remember there are two different parts to this game, you cant just say the Gunners will be good, because likely all they'll be good at is guns.

WD_ToRMeNt
03-06-2002, 08:39 PM
JK newbie STFU and listen...

Sabs in JK will be nothing like sabs in JK2 because of the way q3 handles lag. It was completey dependant on the way jk handled lag and JK2 will handle lag in the opposite way. The ONLY real skill in NF sabs was knowing that lag, and that won't carry over one bit into JK2 because the netcode is opposite of JK

And face it little boy, in JK sabs there was no aim, no item control, no timing, and no multitasking, only a couple buttons and it was slow as hell. Most people played NF sabs because it was easier. Guns and FF required all of the NF sabs skills and more. When a NF saberist got into a game of FF of NF guns he got analed hard.

I became and expert at NF sabs even though i didn't play it much. I learned to use saber at much higher speeds in FF BGJ. When I played NF it was very easy for me. I also got decent at NF guns without playing it much because I have awsome aim from playing FF. I could also time vest very well.

nK_Archangel
03-06-2002, 09:10 PM
I'm guessing that my subtle tract on the warping effect of JK and the Zone on people's minds fell on deaf ears. Well, at least these last couple of mindless rants served to back up my statements.

lol, funny stuff.

JK_DarthMaul
03-06-2002, 10:14 PM
Torment, How might you know so much about the gameplay when its not out yet? You're a little assuming freak. I think of you as a 300 lb. chunkster who sits at home saying I'm elite in his fat-striken lisped never goes out of the house voice. **** you man. and **** all of you Except Spiffy and JZA, the only ****ing people who have sense around here. I'm gone from here, you people are impossible and too stuck up in themselves to learn things. You claim you're not mean to newbies and you're so nice then you call me "JK Newbie" You're a little walking contradiction aren't you? Think before you post little *****, Thats all I have to say, I'm leaving these forums forever unless spiffy ****ing persuades me to come back.


*flips his finger up at everyone*

SpiffyTheDog
03-06-2002, 10:16 PM
Well i'm gonna have to agree that most of you when countered either repeat what you said with different words or just contradict yourself with similar words. It gets extremely annoying.

JaG|Kaiser
03-06-2002, 10:39 PM
What Torment is saying about the game is what we know from Q3. Q3 netcove operates on a model of dedicated servers. your ping determines how fast you fire after you have pressed the fire key. Whereas JK did not use dedicated servers, your ping determined how far ahead you were on the screen versus your visual representation. Anyone who has played any game with dedicated servers vs JK can make the same statement about the game play. Either way "DarthMaul," it is quite apparent that you do not know what you are talking about.

As far as the Zone is concerned: The Zone was a cesspool of garbage. Given that JK2 will be supported by Gamespy, I doubt you will find anyone there, except for newbies and power-abusive sysops. Most of the clans, to my knowledge, will be in IRC.

[SICK]Vomit
03-06-2002, 10:58 PM
So this mean the group hug is out?

oh, and personnal note to DarthMaul. I got my Redneck online translator, so I think we can all finally communicate with you. let me paste in the results:

Hey ******! Wuz up little ****. Ain't **** for brains inda house! Say we ****ing Blow this ****ing ****house and go ****ing raid another ****ing useless ****ing forum?! Dude, ****ed up I tell you. I'm gonna ****ing tear these noobs a new ***!Duuuude!!!

WD_ToRMeNt
03-06-2002, 11:43 PM
JK...

I wasn't telling you how JK2 gameplay would be, but I gave you facts on the differance between JK and JK2 netcode. From this we can make a few assumptions. I also told you know you already know but don't want to admit; you played NF because it was easy and you couldn't handle anything else.

Listen, the day you can beat me in FF JK is the day I'll actually listen to your thoughts. Before that however they're nothing but newbie misundstandings. I've played with many of the best on the zone and got very damn good myself. You on the other hand managed to learn absolutely nothing. Your opinion isn't worth anything.

DeathBoLT
03-06-2002, 11:55 PM
hm, although I played NF sabers in my 'prime' due to computer contraints(for 2 years I was playing JK with a below-minimum requirements pc for JK), I can still assure you its more than just lag prediction.

WD_ToRMeNt
03-07-2002, 01:19 AM
Eh, it's easy compared to other divisions of JK though. No aim, no item timing, fewer buttons, slower paced, no map blah blah blah I get tired of writing this. I guess you could call warping a skill but that's a lag thing :p The dominating factor is NF sabs is the lag and I know you know that. Skill only goes so far when your opponent is warping all over the map and has a ping of 500+

Alchemist
03-07-2002, 12:51 PM
Torment, i noticed your from KC? where exactly?

JaG|Kaiser
03-07-2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Osyrus
Oct. 1998 > May 2001

So you stfu and listen.


Are you assuming that date registered on the JKII.net board implies when a person began playing JK? :rolleyes:

+Nimbus+
03-07-2002, 01:48 PM
Well, on the whole Quake 3 thing it'll be different. I've been playing Zelda 64 for Nintendo 64 these past 2 days because I've not been at school cause of the car accident I was in. Anyways, Zelda 64 runs off the Mario 64 engine yet the two games are totally different. Which is the same thing in the Jedi Outcast v. Quake3 case. Oh and since Jedi Outcast will be on Zone does that make it slow even though the netcode is different?

GSA_Mitth_
03-07-2002, 02:08 PM
zone.com will be toooo lazy and too selfish to NOT put any JK2 server online there ... so basicly it will be peer2peer again ...

eehmm lets go to gamespy and IRC ... less chance to get lag the size of zone.com :D

DeathBoLT
03-07-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt
Eh, it's easy compared to other divisions of JK though. No aim, no item timing, fewer buttons, slower paced, no map blah blah blah I get tired of writing this. I guess you could call warping a skill but that's a lag thing :p The dominating factor is NF sabs is the lag and I know you know that. Skill only goes so far when your opponent is warping all over the map and has a ping of 500+

Well lag is something you have to learn to work with, but it isn't the *sole* most important factor in NF sabers.

I've played both divisions, although I never put in the time neccessary to get FF tactics down to reflex due my pc limitations and my being bored of JK by the time I got a decent PC. While FF sabers/guns had additional factors to account for, nf sabers was just as difficult to master in some of the key aspects. The pace of the game isn't neccessarily something that makes it more difficult. Once you get used to the pace of speed, force speed/jump combos, etc. FF isn't neccesarily more difficult to keep up as NF sabers. The largest factors that made it more difficult, once you got used to the accelerated pace of the game, was the additional attack options and the timing in your head while playing.

Zodiac
03-07-2002, 02:37 PM
hmm zone's still gonna be peer to peer? hmm The NF saberstyle will then look a bit like old JK1, timing the ping, etc. NF saberists will love this, all others will hate this style of "gaybers" ;).

I'm just happy about Zone, because this way I can still play my Australian friends, and people with 56K will also go to Zone when they can't find a good dedicated server.

It'll be laggy as hell sometimes, but hey.. at least they can play it.. and people got used to JK1's lag too. :p

I got ADSL.. im gonna play guns on dedicated servers and sabers at zone.. :p i think.. ill see... If JK2 sux, then I won't play it at all.. there's always RTCW and SOF2 will be coming out too.

WD_ToRMeNt
03-07-2002, 03:31 PM
It doesnt matter what the zone is, the Q3 engine is client server based. If some one hosts on the zone, he will have a ping of 0 (duh, ping with himself) and everyone else will have a ping of >0. NF sabs will not be the same. The zone may be able to display dedicated servers like GS. If they don't then no one who knows anything about online gaming would use it. Most people outside of the JK community will use IRC or GS regardless.

SpiffyTheDog
03-07-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt
It doesnt matter what the zone is.

So you're calling people JK newbies and yet you don't really know what the zone is?


Dude...

WD_ToRMeNt
03-07-2002, 04:23 PM
I know exactly what the zone is, it's a matchmaking service. It can NOT change the netcode of a game. Ever play Q2 on the zone? A client-server based game is STILL a c-s based game zone or not. Zone or not, every player in a game of JK2 (read client) will have a connection with no one BUT the host (read server) and the one true state of the game is held on the server. In jk everyone has a connection with everyone else and each has a slightly differant state of the game world.

JK2 will not be peer to peer like JK. The Q3 engine has been and will always be client-server. Most of the NF saberists (the ones who depend on warp and lag) are in for a nasty suprise.

Wilhuf
03-07-2002, 09:02 PM
Torment this forum is not the Zone. This is not your personal lecture hall. NOONE here is to tell others to 'stfu.' Just because you fail to value other people's opinions here does not give you the right to tell other people to 'stfu.'

The only people enforcing the 'STFU' rules are the moderators and administrators. If I see you or anyone else telling others to 'stfu' again there will be consequences.

Also, all posting here must check the cursing and swearing before you get yourself banned.

I would have expected someone with your experience in posting to the Outcast boards would have better sense.

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
03-07-2002, 10:14 PM
Ok stupid question....

How many of you have played EF or Heretic2.

If you have then JK2 will be a mix of both plus force powers.

None of you seem to realize that RAVEN is making the game.

Spiffy, take the time to read the posts before you respond. And did you read the chat log??

Stop being an imbecile and pay attention......oh wait you are probably high again...its ok.

lmao

NE WAYS! read the chat.

And those games I listed are awesome games. So I expect JK2 to be awesome also.

And in case you are wondering (or maybe not) I own the JK series and have played it online. (back when it came out)

:monkey4:

Eternity
03-08-2002, 07:41 PM
You're all just unpleasant egotistical maniacs, aren't you? Damn, I'm glad I never got involved in the politics of multi-player gaming, no matter how good I got, it's a cesspool of regurgitated garbage, mangled grammical and spelling errors by 13 year olds (and in some sad cases, 18+) and wounded pride.

I have assembled some pointers on the subject.

Torment, I advice you to not talk. Recently, I've been seeing you get thrashed because of the 'elite' attitude. When you can handle not rising to the bait, maybe people would actually take you seriously.
Vomit, enough with the 'sidekick' thing. They aren't, you are just trying to be annoying. Or 'were' is more like it, I see it's been resolved.
JHZ, good points, good thread.


IMHO.

JK_DarthMaul
03-09-2002, 12:27 AM
Well said Eternity, Well said Wilhuf.

I dont understand you torment, you claim you're making a "better" WD, yet you all still have the same "We're the best" attitude, calling clans you dont know newbies and classifying specialities you never took the time to look into as easy.

You're not elite. I'm not elite obviously, and I never said I was so dont go saying YOU'RE NOT ELITE EITHER OMFG CHEATER WALLHACKER...or something.

The Clan JK has never been a clan of newbies. We've never been arrogant either. You, on the other hand, put down others, claim you own people (hey man slavery is illegal) and say you're the best damn thing that happened since TV. And You're better?
Give me one good reason why you're better that people here can agree on and I'll leave you alone and "re-leave" these boards forever. But I doubt that's going to happen because I'm going to be bold and say something. You're trash. Your clan is trash. You're all just a bunch of whining no lives sitting at home claiming dominance on the internet.

IMHO.

SpiffyTheDog
03-09-2002, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by [TE]BiocYte[OO]
Ok stupid question....

How many of you have played EF or Heretic2.

If you have then JK2 will be a mix of both plus force powers.

None of you seem to realize that RAVEN is making the game.

Spiffy, take the time to read the posts before you respond. And did you read the chat log??

Stop being an imbecile and pay attention......oh wait you are probably high again...its ok.

lmao

NE WAYS! read the chat.

And those games I listed are awesome games. So I expect JK2 to be awesome also.

And in case you are wondering (or maybe not) I own the JK series and have played it online. (back when it came out)




This is just ri-goddamned-diculous...how would it be even possible for me to participate in a discussion without reading what was going on to raise enough attention for responses to all of my points?

And also, i don't want to read the chat. What, does reading the chat make you somehow "in the know" of JK2? I'd rather not take time out of my day to read a chat that I had nothing to do with.

And don't call it the "JK series." There were TWO GAMES, one of which wasn't even called JK, it was dark forces. There were no lightsabers or force powers. It was just a star wars FPS. The second one was called Dark Forces 2: JEDI KNIGHT.

Biocyte, did you even play the games? What about the chat log??

AND ANOTHER THING

Don't assume what a game will be like just because it's made by a certain company. Diablo was nothing like Warcraft, yet they were both made by Blizzard. Go read those chat logs. You'll be IN THE KNOW.

JK_DarthMaul
03-09-2002, 12:39 AM
Very well said. I think he's correct in all aspects on this one. (And on most others)

WD_ToRMeNt
03-09-2002, 02:18 AM
LOL I don't take offense from people who don't know what they are talking about. I just laught at them.

DeathBoLT
03-09-2002, 03:02 AM
I've forgotten which post I got this from, but one of the adminstrators of JKII.net that got to goto visit LEC and see JO, stated that the game felt more like JK than EF or Quake.

Wilhuf
03-09-2002, 09:47 AM
You're trash. Your clan is trash. You're all just a bunch of whining no lives sitting at home claiming dominance on the internet.

While I can neither confirm nor deny any of this, I am obliged to again issue a warning: direct personal insults against individuals and groups is not acceptable on this forum. Take it to some other clan board if you absolutely have to.

This forum is not host for 'clan trash talk.' The Zone already serves that purpose. This board is going to be a forum for clan discussion, organization, competition, recruiting, and yes, civil criticism.

Keep posting here, but keep the comments on-topic.

Outcast is going to be more like Jedi Knight than EF or Q3, seeing how it is a sequel to the original. I'm pretty sure that gamers with plenty of FPS experience will in fact have an edge over newcomers. And I wouldn't be surprised if experienced Jedi Knight/MotS veterans have a slight edge over those who've never played those games. The concepts will be very familiar.

Although there will have to be a good deal of 'unlearning' for those who have become very set in their ways, no doubt. Gameplay will be different in subtle ways.

For example, the inventory items (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/html/inventory.html) on the LEC page show there are stationary ammo (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/html/inventory_power.html) and shield (http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/html/inventory_converter.html) energy converters. To charge up your ammo or replenish shields, you will have to secure and maintain access to one of these stations. You will not be able to instantly replenish shields and ammo. It will take time hooked up to the station, probably similar to Half-Life's energy and medical stations. This implies that area control will be more important than ever in Outcast.

But of course gamers who know Half-Life won't have any problems with this gameplay aspect.

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
03-09-2002, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by SpiffyTheDog




This is just ri-goddamned-diculous...how would it be even possible for me to participate in a discussion without reading what was going on to raise enough attention for responses to all of my points?

And also, i don't want to read the chat. What, does reading the chat make you somehow "in the know" of JK2? I'd rather not take time out of my day to read a chat that I had nothing to do with.

And don't call it the "JK series." There were TWO GAMES, one of which wasn't even called JK, it was dark forces. There were no lightsabers or force powers. It was just a star wars FPS. The second one was called Dark Forces 2: JEDI KNIGHT.

Biocyte, did you even play the games? What about the chat log??

AND ANOTHER THING

Don't assume what a game will be like just because it's made by a certain company. Diablo was nothing like Warcraft, yet they were both made by Blizzard. Go read those chat logs. You'll be IN THE KNOW.


Diablo was nothing like Warcraft is true, no doubt. I never said it was. I said JK2 would be similiar to Q3, EF and Heretic 2 in terms of GAMEPLAY.

Now I would hope that in terms of "feel" it does not remind you of EF or Q3 or Heretic.

I want to play a Jedi Knight Game not Elite Force.

Spiffy I cant attack you personally because the mods have asked everyone not 2. But truthfully every single one of your posts are idiotic and full of insults. And of course nothing else needs to be said about .... yes you guessed it "your sidekick" who (although everyone is asking to drop that side kick thing) agrees with every spouting of verbal diareah that comes out of your mouth.

I have played the Jedi Knight games, be them called whatever. But unlike some ppl I moved on to other games. And when JO comes out I will move on to it from Elite Force. So excuse me if I dont remember the exact names....lol

You just need to S H A D A P!

lol

Oh and when the game comes out we can settle this online. ;)

[SICK]Vomit
03-09-2002, 11:57 AM
Spiffy I cant attack you personally because the mods have asked everyone not 2. But truthfully every single one of your posts are idiotic and full of insults. And of course nothing else needs to be said about .... yes you guessed it "your sidekick" who (although everyone is asking to drop that side kick thing) agrees with every spouting of verbal diareah that comes out of your mouth.

Bio, Well said. The main point I've been trying to make is that this is the only post they didn't attack the author of the thread. All previous post were foul insults, not just being annoying, and most were deleted by the mods. So it's amusing to read how they turn things around here, yet always fire off more...how you put it....verbal diarrhea. But I think they have hope. They have there moments...if only they can control that last sentence they post. :)

Regarding gameplay, come on, the only true test is we need to hook up after the game comes out and arrange a match of EF -vs- JK players. I have an dedicated EF server that I will change over to run JK2. I'm even willing to let JZA or Spiffy have Rcon access to make sure it's running clean and no mods. Come on, lets settle this proper like.

Wilhuf
03-09-2002, 04:37 PM
O, if you click the 'members' button above, you can find users and then opt to ignore them.

JK_DarthMaul
03-10-2002, 10:02 PM
Wilhuf I dont get it man...You delete posts that spiffy and I make that are rational and then just let the others flame us? Whats with that man? He just said we talk like verbal diarrhea...thats worse then calling someone trash...you're biased as hell. I dont give a flying **** if you kick me off these boards, at all. I'm still going to play the game I just wont be able to converse with people about it before it comes out because of a biased Moderator and some idiots on a Forum who make things more then they are.

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
03-11-2002, 12:39 PM
RATIONAL!

LMAO!!!

Wilhuf, PLEASE don"t kick these guys this is 2 funny!!!

SpiffyTheDog
03-11-2002, 03:52 PM
Look at your posts there bud, you're like a raging pre-teen without hormones who overuses internet abbreviatons. I don't care if I get booted from these forums, and i probably will - **** you, this entire post was about "accepting newbies" and such. WE'RE ALL NEWBIES! Do you have the game? Really, do you? You think some chat log makes you some kind of JK2 historian? and about my point about warcraft and diablo, that was a COMPARISON TO RAVEN. Then you just say some idiotic reply like "we're not talking about warcraft.." and go on talking about how because I have a photographic memory I never stopped playing Dark Forces. Also, by saying that every single one of my posts is "idiotic and full of insults" you just proved that you are not reading all of my posts. You're just reading the ones that are in reply to your "spoutings of verbal" diarrhea. And go get your mom to buy you a dictionary or something, your spelling and grammar are horrible. Try a little self-evaluation before you go flaming others. And also, to everyone else, don't base posts to me, YES ME, NOT MY "SIDEKICK" MAUL, on my other posts and threads on the boards. If you do, you're just trying to get off your urges to feel superior to people by finding someone who got high and happened to be logged in to a forum at the time. I'm not even going to look for replies here, each flame is just a perfect example of verbal diarrhea. In fact, I WANT to get booted, i'll think of it as a trophy.

So, on that note, **** **** **** **** MOTHER**** ASS ***** **** **** **** **** ***** WHORE SLUT. **** PISS COCK **** ****ER. ***** SCHOOL.

JaG|Kaiser
03-11-2002, 05:09 PM
I'd like to start a petition. Spiffy's title should be "Maul's Sidekick," and Maul should be "Spiffy's Sidekick." Anyone care to sign this petition?

[SICK]Vomit
03-12-2002, 10:32 AM
Don't think that petition will be hard to fill up.

Actually, I should have logged every post where they tried to insult the person by calling them a 5 year old, Pre-teen, raging Teen without hormones, LOL. I guess a person can only attack with things familiar to them.

Sad part is that they keep using getting "High" as an excuse for their actions. Sorry officer, I didn't mean to drive through the red light, we were High! We were High!

JaG|Kaiser
03-12-2002, 10:56 AM
Ever hear the song "I Got High" by Afroman? It was at the end of "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back." It seems applicable in this situation:

"I was going to post some smack about vets, but then I got high."
"I was going to give a witty response, but then I got high."
"I can't defend myself, and now I know why...."
"Because I got high, because I got high, because I got high."

[TE]BiocYte[OO]
03-12-2002, 11:34 AM
Spiffy,

Yes my spelling is far from perfect. And to the rest of the board members I apologize, maybe a speel cheeker is in order.

Now you missed my point all together in regards to the Daiblo and Warcraft thing but whatever.

I am not going to defend myself by saying that I am not a teen or anything. In fact I am not, and yes some of my posts have been a bit childish. But then again I am having fun.

You have shown your true colors in that last post and for that I am gratefull.

I told you that we should settle this when the game comes out, and that offer still stands.

Oh and stick and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.

hehe

I thought I would go down to your level. Then maybe you will understand.

:D

PET MY MONKEY!!

[SICK]OLMofo
03-12-2002, 06:52 PM
Man after that post he almost qualifies to be in [SICK] for hells sake! Too bad we dont allow hormone raging teenagers LOL!

Spiff: Take it like a man, insults prove nothing except immaturity, and lastly, lay of the mary-jane ffs!


Is this thread still going? wtf!

BUMP!

SpiffyTheDog
03-12-2002, 08:19 PM
Vomit - I used that excuse ONCE because it happened ONCE.

And why do you people call us sidekicks, and of all things EACHOTHER'S sidekicks. The whole concept of being a sidekick is that you are lesser than whoever you are a sidekick to. Two people can't be eachother's sidekicks. And to further the point, darthmaul is banned from these forums. I had nothing to do with that. You people just stick to something even after it has been proved wrong.


"...oh yeah, well, uh...you're sidekicks! I'll make a petition!"

And now that maul's been banned I don't want to be banned anymore. I'm not his ****ing sidekick.

JaG|Kaiser
03-12-2002, 09:36 PM
Well, since he has been banned, then I guess he is your sidekick.

SpiffyTheDog
03-13-2002, 09:09 PM
...wait, what?

That didn't make any sense at all...

Kurgan
03-14-2002, 07:26 AM
Guys... this bring backs memories of the old "Mauling Arena" we used to have at JK.net forums (for those of us old enough to remember). However this is "Clan Recruiting" if anybody forgot to read the sign as they walked in, and I really don't see any of that going on here in this thread, honestly.

Anyhow, while some points made in this thread I might agree with to a certain agree, whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant.

I figure there are just too many flame posts, personal attacks and other things going on in this thread that warrant its being closed.

I strongly urge you all to examine how you post and debate, and in the future, try to be mindful of these things. It makes our job tougher if we have to wade through threads like this and all the bickering and flaming to get to any real discussion.

If you weren't one of the ones attacking other people, don't take this personally, I'm just saying that we need to have a bit more concern for ettiquette around here than was generally shown in this thread.

So if you want to start a new thread, be by guest, just lay off the flames and swears, thanks.