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View Full Version : Most annoying thing about SCUMMVM


Skib
03-10-2002, 05:30 PM
I know SCUMMVM is still in alpha stages, but, IMO...right now it just sucks ;). Also, SCUMMVM needs support for the CD version of Sam and Max...

bgbennyboy
03-10-2002, 07:13 PM
Oh come on........dont be so negative.
The fact that it exists at all should be cause for all us SCUMM fans to shout from the rooftops.
You cant complain just because it doesnt support all the things you want yet.
The creators of ScummVM arent obliged to do any of this!
What they have done so far is fantastic, we should be supporting them not whining.
One thing it does NOT do is suck.

Chuzwuzza
03-11-2002, 02:24 AM
The one thing that really really annoys me is the midi music support in linux (or any other unix). I have a decent sound card which can produce midi output far superior to any adlib emulator or software synth, but there is no way I can use it with ScummVM. I contributed a patch a while ago to let users use raw midi devices or sequencer devices in linux in ScummVM, but received no feedback from the developers and my patch was never implemented. I kept updating it for my own use every time the internals of ScummVM changed, but one day the whole sound system was restructured and I just couldnt be bothered anymore. Developers, if you are reading this, PLEASE implement some kind of C++ midi interface class so that many different midi "drivers" can be compiled into ScummVM and chosen on startup.
Sorry if I sound bitter, but I am. I've asked on the developer mailing list several times for feedback on my patch, and have received no hint of interest from the developers.

Ender
03-11-2002, 09:43 AM
As one of the main ScummVM developers, first let me say "Geez, Thanks"... I post a poll asking which game we should concentrate on next, and I get a poll in response about how much it sucks :P

Let me address each of the points in question:

1) SCUMMVM uses save states instead of games' native save format

Naturally. If you were a programmer trying to work on ScummVM, you would understand how hard this is. At the moment there are TWO people really working on ScummVM, myself and yazoo.... It would take months for us to disassemble and reverse-engineer the hundreds of different versions of save formats out there.

Sure, it would be a nice thing to have - but it's not feasible to consider us adding it.


2) Unexpected crashes in the middle of your game

Which part of the word 'ALPHA' do you not understand? File a bug report and we'll fix it! Sheesh :)


3) No GUI

This is a good point, and we will add one at some stage... In fact, I have already started so the next release will have it. But take your pick, more games or a pretty gui..

4) All files have to be lowercase to be detected

This is true (on Linux and other case-sensitive platforms)... and it's something we will address. Nobody ever complained about it, not even the linux people using it. So we never knew it was a problem!

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5) Doesn't support enough games

Two people. Many games. Each drastically different. No documentation on 99% of them. AND I POSTED A POLL IN THIS VERY FORUM ASKING WHAT PEOPLE WANT US TO SUPPORT. Thank you, your honor, the defence rests. :)

I think, out of Sam and Max, DOTT, Indy4, MI1, MI2 we do pretty well. And with Full Throttle, The Dig and Loom (CD), Zak McCracken (256), Indy3 (256) versions almost ready, that only leaves the EGA versions of some games.. and of course Maniac Mansion itself.

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6) Other

The sourceforge project has a "Features Request" area, and a "Bug Reporting" area... use them. Also, there is a "Patch Tracker" area for someone to commit patches. Please, if there are any programmers out there, help us out. I've spend the last 43 hours awake trying to make Zak McCracken run!





In closing:
ScummVM sucks? Well, point me to any other (released :) program which comes even CLOSE to doing what we do. And remember, if you have a problem... bug report! Send patches (please! There are TWO people working on this!). Join us on IRC (#scummvm on irc.openprojects.net) and talk to us.

Oh, and Chuzwuzza - I could have sworn there was already /dev/sequencer support. Let me take a look and get back to you.

Ender
03-11-2002, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Skib
Also, SCUMMVM needs support for the CD version of Sam and Max...

I spent all of last weekend making sure Sam and Max (Talkie) worked.. it's been supported in ScummVM for over a week.

Ender
03-11-2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Chuzwuzza
The one thing that really really annoys me is the midi music support in linux (or any other unix).

Ok. our apologies - this was overlooked at the time because the sound code was being rewritten. As it stands, I'm doing some reorganising of the sound code AGAIN atm, to make this stuff runtime selectable. When that's done I'll add sequencer/raw midi support.

It might take a bit, getting Zak256 to work is priority atm - and I need to learn some more C++ to do what I'm trying to do :P

laxdragon
03-11-2002, 11:05 AM
Apparently, some of you expect ScummVM to just be a 100% working thing that just drops out of the ether.

In the real world, that I live in, things like this take time. Like Endy says, there is only 2 full time coders working on this, and several part time coders.

All your requests will get answered in time. We won't stop working on this until it meets our expectations (which are pretty high).

Please be patient, and if you really want ScummVM to continue, don't be lame and say it sucks. Comments like that will only eat away at out enthusiasm to continue. Yes, we know it does not work perfect, but as we try to beat into your head, this is ALPHA code.

In the last 2 months, ScummVM has improved by leaps and bounds. But, we still have a ways to go. Keep checking the site for news updates. and keep trying our new releases. We promise, things won't "suck" forever. :-)

As Cartman says: STOP YOUR B*TCH'N
:p

Skib
03-11-2002, 11:30 PM
Hey now, simmer down now Ender. I wasn't insulting your project. Not at all. I think it's a great idea, it just needs some time to get along.

I actually did submit a bug through that sourceforge tracker thing. It even had a screenshot of the DOS output (thingy) window. For some reason it didn't get through. I guess it doesn't really matter though since it was about Sam and Max CD version unexpectedly exiting when I tried to enter the hall of oddities. Since SCUMMVM now supports S.A.M. CD, could you kindly tell which file to download? I thought I was getting the most recent version, but there's so many files its kind of confusing :p. BTW, not all of us are programmers, so could you explain what GDI and SDI is? Oh and why does Curse of Monkey Island need to be supported by SCUMMVM? I have it and it runs just fine.

Ender
03-11-2002, 11:56 PM
Ah, you were probably downloading the 'daily build'. The person who does those hasn't been around for a while, and I just had laxdragon remove them from the webpage.

The link you want is 'Win32 Daily Snapshot' in the Downloads section. This is updated daily, so download it occasionally to keep up with the latest fixes, etc.

As for CMI... ScummVM is also used by people to play Scumm games on platforms OTHER than Windows - like Linux, BeOS, Amiga, PocketPC (I have DOTT and Sam and Max on my iPaq :)... Naturally, CMI won't run nativly on any of those.

Regards,
Ender

Originally posted by Skib
Since SCUMMVM now supports S.A.M. CD, could you kindly tell which file to download? I thought I was getting the most recent version, but there's so many files its kind of confusing :p. BTW, not all of us are programmers, so could you explain what GDI and SDI is? Oh and why does Curse of Monkey Island need to be supported by SCUMMVM? I have it and it runs just fine.

Ender
03-12-2002, 03:01 AM
Actually, I just found out I made a rather silly typo in some of my updates last night - so you might want to wait until tommorows daily build, which will fix a fairly major problem.

Chuzwuzza
03-12-2002, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Endy


Ok. our apologies - this was overlooked at the time because the sound code was being rewritten. As it stands, I'm doing some reorganising of the sound code AGAIN atm, to make this stuff runtime selectable. When that's done I'll add sequencer/raw midi support.

Thanks heaps! That's pretty much the *only* thing I don't like about ScummVM. As a whole it's a truly great piece of software and I have nothing but admiration for the people who are working on this :)

Ender
03-14-2002, 12:47 PM
Chuzwuzza: Your patch should be in CVS now, along with some other new stuff - like an options menu so you can set sound volumes ingame. (*gasp* :).

Also started working on a game launcher UI, but need to come up with a reliable'ish way to detect available games.

Skib
03-16-2002, 12:05 AM
Well! I sure am glad that we're all cool with each other again. :p

I really despise grudges and that sort of thing...

Ender
03-16-2002, 07:27 AM
Heh - I don't hold grudges.. I just get a little peed off when someone says something sucks that both I and a bunch of other people have been working our asses off on :)

On another note, Serge has returned from his post-scummrev hiatus and started work on WinSPUTM (again :). He's using ScummVM as a good source of knowledge and we'll be cooperating to make sure both engines work the best they can!

Originally posted by Skib
Well! I sure am glad that we're all cool with each other again. :p

I really despise grudges and that sort of thing...

Darnn
03-16-2002, 07:28 AM
So... Is that why you started this one? :)
Incidentally, Endy, it's so totally cool of you to actually come here and reply to everyone.

Ender
03-16-2002, 09:38 AM
Hehe, I've been hanging around at 'el mojo and co for years - way before scummvm :)

So of course, anyone with any comments/questions on scummvm is totally invited to post and get a reply :)

Originally posted by Darnn
So... Is that why you started this one? :)
Incidentally, Endy, it's so totally cool of you to actually come here and reply to everyone.

Serge
03-16-2002, 09:59 AM
Oh damn... Guess I forgot to tell you, Endy :) WinSPUTM is not announced in any way, and really, it shouldn't have been. Since it's likely that (once again) I'll drop it. Oh well.

Another reason it isn't announced is this... I really can't cope with people who complain constantly about a product they did not pay a single dime for, and without even trying to do something to fix the problem themselves (I'm not talking "Write your own god damn program" here, just "How about telling the developers?" (preferably in a pleasant tone - remember, they don't owe you anything)).

SCUMMVM is the most impressive thing I've ever seen come out of the LucasArts fan community. Reverse engineering is a lengthy process, and it most often gives you severe headaches. Adding the aspect of redoing it in a way that allows it to run flawlessly on several different platforms doesn't make it easier. And with only two developers, it's so close to impossible that if I didn't see it happening, I wouldn't believe it.

I might as well get this cleared up right now... So... As for WinSPUTM (*sigh*), it won't happen for a long time. And why I'm doing it rather than working on SCUMMVM? I'm discussing with the SCUMMVM team already, no? Well, first of all, as I pointed out to Ludde while he lead the project, I don't agree with the structuring of the engine (although Endy is doing a great job to make it more structured, he has lots of other issues to attend). Secondly, I don't speak C/C++ natively, I read it, I write it (badly), I can comment on it. Almost like a person listening to music without being able to play anything but a scale on a piano, much less write a symphony. And thirdly, the cross-platform philosophy of SCUMMVM introduces some problems that I won't get into here (and which might be solvable - seeing Endy and the others' work so far, it wouldn't surprise me). And last, but not least, I don't agree with the GPL (although that's a secret - don't tell anyone. :) I have to agree with it to get ideas from the SCUMMVM code).

There. Think that's it.

Cheers,
Serge

Ender
03-16-2002, 10:08 AM
Oops, sorry..

And nice comments on scummvm - and all true. But we learn from our mistakes, no? :)

Serge
03-16-2002, 10:16 AM
As I just told you on IRC, no problem :) I just learned from my lesson on SCRAMM. But as long as the public know that I don't really have the dedication you have, and thus the program might never be done, I guess it won't harm. I just grew tired of countless emails asking "When will <this or that> be done?"

- Serge

Erwin_Br
03-17-2002, 04:59 AM
I couldn't agree more.

It's best to announce your projects when they're 90% completed.

--Erwin