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View Full Version : Remaking JK SP in JO


Fardreamer
03-17-2002, 12:41 AM
Set aside questions about the feasibility of such a mod. I want to discuss the technical issues here. Is JO's modified Q3:TA engine cabaple of handling the original Jedi Knight's singleplayer levels?

Recreating the JK levels would require modelling and lighting them from scratch in Radiant (closely following the original levels in JED), remaking the textures in high-res 32 bit format (as opposed to the 8-bit of JK's textures), and translating all the COG scripts into ICARUS2 scripts. Many of the environment models (3DOs) used in JK could be turned into brushes due to the nature of brush based engines. The only real question is whether the sheer scale of some of the levels (Baron's Hed fortress, Valley of the Jedi) will be possible to recreate convingcingly.

As to enemy and NPC models, I'm sure a couple of experienced modellers could handle making the few enemies JK featured that JO does not, such as Grave Tuskens, Trandoshans (Bossk), etc. as well as the seven dark Jedi. Uggnauts and other NPCs would be a snap to make. I don't see any technical issues here, other than AI incompatibilties: since writing new AI is out of the question, enemies would require choosing one of the existing AI routines, and possibly adding custom scripts to control other behaviors.

The main issue here is weapons. Since no SDK will be available for SP, making new weapons isn't possible. However, it will be possible to change some of the weapons models and effects, but in my opinion there's no real point in doing so... none of the weapons have story relevance, other than the lightsaber of course, which will need to be changed to match Rahn's saber.

Such a project would most definately require using resources from JK, so a simple program could be written to extract sounds and cutscenes from the Jedi Knight discs and convert them to compatible formats. I'm sure the cutscenes could be converted faily easily to JO's format (unless it's some LEC-exclusive format such as SAN).

What do you think?

TigZy
03-17-2002, 01:01 AM
Well, if the Q3:TA engine can handle the sprawling maps of JO, it should work for Jk1 too. Sounds like a great idea, and I look forward to seeing the dark jedi in all their glory in the mod :)

Good luck!

Fardreamer
03-17-2002, 01:21 AM
I didn't say I was going to make this thing :)

I don't think such a huge mod would be feasible.

TigZy
03-17-2002, 01:29 AM
Well, it IS feasible... but yeah, a lot of work would be required.

SPY_jmr1
03-17-2002, 01:39 AM
sounds like a massave untaking, i see both points. how about maybe just converting some of the best levels? i can see a "best of" level and baddie pack but not a tc.


not saying i dont think a "dfiii:jkii:jo dfii:jki tc" is a cool idea.
(evil idea)hmm what about a dfiii:jkii:jo dfii:jki dfii:jki:motsxpak TC..............

:explode:

Singularity
03-17-2002, 12:46 PM
Couldn't dr0id's plugin be used to convert the levels? The only things left would be touching up the levels and adding new enemies...

Fardreamer
03-17-2002, 12:57 PM
Most definately not. The levels would have to use the Q3 engine's mapping capabilities to the maximum. dr0id's plugin could be used to make easy-to-follow reference levels, but they would have to be remade from scratch.

Anyway, part of the remake would obviously involve some (though very few) additions/changes to the levels.

MustangMatt302
03-17-2002, 01:36 PM
Hey FarDreamer, it's me SoccerGuy. Long time no see. We go WAY back into the ole' JK days. We're the ole' JK farts. :jango:

Fardreamer
03-17-2002, 02:19 PM
I may be an old JK fart :), but I don't seem to recall hearing the name SoccerGuy before... I remember a Mr. Goalie on Jedi Legacy, though....

Refresh my memory?

MustangMatt302
03-17-2002, 02:57 PM
I was in several TC/MODs for JK. TDIR, GoldenEye, Final Fantasy, Art of the LightSaber, and there are probably a few more...

:jango:

Fardreamer
03-17-2002, 03:57 PM
You worked with me on my mod? AotL? Did you go by some other alias back then?

MustangMatt302
03-17-2002, 08:20 PM
Aliasi

:jango:
:dmaul3:
:fett2:

SSTrunksGuy
SoccerGuy
probably some others......

UniKorn
03-18-2002, 02:10 AM
For this kind of mod I advise you to check out any legal issues first.

Fardreamer
03-18-2002, 02:25 AM
Trunks! Yeah I remember you. :)

Fardreamer
03-18-2002, 02:26 AM
I don't see what kind of legal issues could arise if the first Jedi Knight CDs are required in order ot load it...

UniKorn
03-18-2002, 07:59 AM
And how would you accomplish that?

Fardreamer
03-18-2002, 11:03 AM
As I said in the first post, many resources from the original JK would be required, such as sounds and cutscenes. And so part of the installation would require the JK CDs be inserted in order for an extractor program to extract the resources. Such a program is very easy to write.

MustangMatt302
03-18-2002, 02:46 PM
Nice to see you're still alive and kicking, Far. Hope to work my magic in JK2 with you again in the near future. :jango:

UniKorn
03-19-2002, 01:02 AM
So basically you are extracting sounds and other things from a game created by another developer? To create a mod for a game created by Raven. It is not because you own the cd that you own the sounds that are on it. I suggest you check out with LA how that it turns out.

SPY_jmr1
03-19-2002, 03:51 AM
i have noticed that in SOME levels on a well known site, that have addon levels for jk1 that used textures from the orig. df, IN THE DOWNLOAD, and nothering ever came of it so one of 2 things: 1 lucasarts thinks its neat(it was one or two texs.) or theay just dont give a **** about a 5yr. old game, and we can all jump in a lake for all lucasarts cares. :D

i cant see if you have the cds thats its that big a problem.

Fardreamer
03-19-2002, 04:05 AM
Offering them for download is illegal. Levels with DF textures are illegal, because they are offering DF content tp people who don't own DF.

However, if you own DF and are required to extract those textures yourself, then youaren't doing anything illegal, since you're not distributing copyrighted content, you're only using it for yourself.

BlackDragon
03-19-2002, 11:35 AM
I think that it could be done. I don't know if you could do all of one level in one go as, like you said Fardreamer, the JK levels are large. But you could break them down so that the JK levels spanned over several JO levels. (Of course, the JO levels we've seen so far all look pretty big in scale so that should be no problem.)

Personally though, I don't think you should think about reusing the resources from the original CDs. I would have thought it better to recreate and update things like textures and effects to make the most of the Q3 engine. It would make the whole thing look a lot better.

On a side note, although I'm sure I'd play it through interest, I wouldn't really understand why anyone would want to do this in the first place! There's lots of unexplored ideas and potential for startlinglly new original ideas out there so why revisit this one?

Ah, nostalgia! It ain't what it used to be!

Kurgan
03-19-2002, 08:18 PM
That reminds me.. the "Multiplayer Dark Forces" mod for Duke Nukem 3D, which, IIRC was done by Alexi Novikov (the JED author) implemented just such a device... in order to install it, you had to insert your DF1 full version cd, and then it copied and extracted the resources to your hd to convert them for use in the mod.

The same thing could be done here, and everyone could be satisfied.. nothing "illegal."

The other way to get around it would be to just redraw everything, and re-record the sounds.

Heck, people used SW sounds from the movies in all kinds of mods... no lawyers chasing after 'em...

Fardreamer
03-20-2002, 03:38 AM
You ask what's the point? I'll tell you. It's very very easy and lots of fun to make. No need to spend weeks and weeks designing locations, modelling weapons and enemy models and programming them, and, most importantly, coming up with an original storyline. All the reference material we'd ever need is already there - how much easier can level design get when all you have to do is look at a level and copy out it's layout?

The only enemies I can think of that are crucial to the plot of Jedi Knight are Grave Tuskens, Mallocs and those silly Dark Jedi. All the rest could be easily reused from JO... who cares whether it's a conc-toting Bossk or a bowcaster-wielding Weequay that they cut down? As to weapons, none except the lightsaber are story-relevant, so weapons modelling or programming is unnecessary (a good thing, since it's not possible to reprogram weapons in JO SP).

The most difficult task will most probably be redrawing the textures in higher resolutions and color depths, but even that shouldn't prove very complicated for a skilled texture artist - it's all a matter of looking at the original and redrawing.

Anyway, you have to admit it'd be fun to kick Jerec's kaboose with the new lightsaber system :D