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Glycerine
03-28-2002, 02:12 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on a P4 1.9 with 512MB and a GeForce 3 I should be able to turn all the detail options to max at 1280x1024 and still get super smooth framerates...right? I bumped it down to 1024x768 and it runs smooth most of the time, only slowing down in certain areas. (The moving bridge, and barred doorway in the Jedi Test level to be exact...)
I can run all other Q3 powered games at those settings fine. (Even Medal of Honor runs smooth as silk constantly, slowing down only once during the beach scene...)

What do you experts think? I am running WinXP Prof with the latest Nvidia drivers.

Glycerine

Glycerine
03-28-2002, 03:41 PM
* BUMP *

I must be the only one having these problems...

Post your system, what detail settings you are using, and what resolution you are playing in. Let us know if it runs perfect all the time, or if you have framerate hits.

Glycerine

Lord_Darkmoon
03-28-2002, 03:59 PM
I have similar problems, but the slowdowns are really huge on my system...
First I thought it might have something to do with my Radeon, that Jedi Knight 2 was somehow mysteriously optimized for Nvidia cards, but know I think it might have something to do with Windows XP (or a combination of a Radeon and Windows XP).

My System:
Athlon 1 GHZ
512 MB PC 133 RAM
ATI Radeon 64 ViVo (Drivers: 6052)
Soundblaster Live Value
Plextor Plexwriter 12/10/32A
Creative DVD-ROM
IBM 30 GB Harddisk
Windows XP

Edit: Forgot to post the settings... Massive slowdowns with High Geometry and very high Texture details, 32 bit, Anisotrophic filtering, Volumetric Shadows, everything at Max...
Resolution: 1024x768

drluv
03-28-2002, 04:43 PM
I got a PII400 with geforceIIGTS32 and 640RAM, it runs fine with your settings (lord_darkmoon), but when 3-6 grenades are exploding at the same time, it runs slow, and the sound begins to stutter....

Hurin
03-30-2002, 07:59 AM
I just posted a similar thread at:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36952

I'm seeing no real difference in framerates no matter whether I'm running at 640x480 or 1600x1200. It's always 60fps, give or take 10fps. (this is during the timedemo benchmark. See http://www.hardocp.com for instructions on running the benchmark).

Anyways, during SP, at 1280x1024, most of the game is fine. . . and FPS hovers between 40-70fps most of the time. However, in large outdoor scenes, it drops to 25-30 quite often.

My setup is as follows:

Windows XP Pro
Pentium 4 2Ghz (Northwood)
Asus P4B266-C Motherboard
512MB DDR RAM
Geforce 3 ti500
Sound Blaster Live

Just thought this info might help. You might also check out my other thread.

Best Regards,

Hurin

Cherrn
03-30-2002, 01:30 PM
I have the same FPS problem, I own a p4 1.7 with 512 MB RAM and a regualr GF3.
What's up with the framerates of this game? I had none of these problems in MoH or RtCW.

cj7816
03-31-2002, 01:47 AM
AMD TBird 1.3 ghz
512 ram
GeForce2 mx 32mb

Pretty good framerate most of the time (around 60fps).
Slows down to 15-20fps ouside and in large rooms with lots of bots.
Nothing really helped except for turning down Geometric Detail


I upgraded my video card today to a GeForce4 mx 64meg:
Zero performance increase!
Like the other guy/gal said, it doesn't matter how high or low I put my video settings, I still get the same framerate (g.o.t. 5fps).

I'm thinking that my video card isn't the problem. I'm probably going to try to take my GF4 back since it doesn't help any.

I would NOT recommend that anyone bother with anything more than GF2/3 32mb. Maybe as patches are released, performance will get better.

Hurin
03-31-2002, 07:03 AM
Well, I decided to try to rule out Windows XP Professional as the problem. In so doing, I think I may have discovered an important clue.

At first, I thought going to Windows 2000 solved it because I loaded my last saved game where I noticed a huge slow-down. . . and it was *much* faster. Whereas I was getting 25-35fps, I was now getting 60-70fps (1280x1024 Max settings).

But, get this, it *wasn't* the switch to Windows 2000. . . because I quickloaded the save again. . . and my fps plummeted.

It's the friggin' quickloads. . . somehow. I can't explain it. But I quit the game completely. . . started the game up from scratch. . . loaded the save. . . and I was once again cruising at 70fps. Even when I looked up at the mountain that had been crippling me down to 20fps. Then, I hit F9 to quickload. . . sure enough. . . back down to crappy performance.

I don't know *why* this is the case. . . but something is definitely wrong here. I plan on posting this to a seperate thread so maybe it will get LucasArts attention. I might just email them too.

Let me know if you guys notice the same thing. In order to look at your FPS, you'll need to:

Bring up the console by pressing SHIFT ~

Type: set cg_drawfps 1

You should now see the FPS displayed in the top-right corner of the screen.

Thanks!

Hurin

DeM@rco
03-31-2002, 10:31 AM
Well Hurin, I am experiencing exactly the same problem !!
You can look at my thread here:
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=423695#post423695

I also see no real differences in fps, when switching resolutions.
I only have the slight difference, that sometimes even the fresh restart and load up from scratch gives me poor performance.
But itīs good to hear, that I am not the only one, who is suffering from this "(quick)load horror" I hope the guys over at Raven can fix this.

Bye,
Marco

CaptainRAVE
03-31-2002, 12:09 PM
I have the same problem. Everything is fine on maximum graphics until an outdoor area appears, then the framrate goes incredibly low :s......anyone got a solution.......turning off volumetric shading helps a little, but doesnt solve the problem...

Jolts
03-31-2002, 12:23 PM
I have a:

p4 1.7 256rm
gf3 64mb(been trying out every driver version from 23.11-28.32)
fasttrak raid
sb live 5.1
asus p4t mb running version 5 bios
winxp

I also noticed the slowdowns after loading a quicksave and my frame rate would go down from an average of 80-50-30-20-10
after every time I loaded a quicksave. I played with all the graphics card tweaks I could think of and messed with all the game settings and only thing I found that helped was turning off 32bit textures.

No matter what I do, I get 80 fps w/o any characters on screen(doesn't matter what res, or graphics options I turn on off) and as soon as a few characters pop up it drops down to 25fps.

I think raven should use JO as testing for adding some gf3/gf4 enhanced features, then add it into sof2

DeM@rco
03-31-2002, 06:56 PM
@ Jolts

Maybe the reason why You donīt get more than 80 fps is because Your max fps settng is on the default value of 85 fps.
Normally I set my max fps on Q3-Engine games to 200 fps. Raven advised to leave this value on the default, but I changed it to 100 fps, thatīs the same value as my refreh rate.

If U donīt already know, U can change maxfps, when U open the console and then type "com_maxFPS" and put the value in that U like. V-sync should be off for that, or You will have the refresh rate of Your monitor...

You turned off 32 bit Textures?
Hmm...for me turning off anything is not an option, because I KNOW, that the game runs silky smooth on my system, but the (quick)loads are making the game crawl. Maybe the game has issues with our GeForce cards.

bye m8,

Marco

tjstiffler
03-31-2002, 07:25 PM
i run this game at 1280x1024 32bit with all options maxed out EXCEPT volumetric(?) shadows...when enabled, my framerate goes into the toilet...disabled and the game runs smooth as butter even during large outdoor areas with 9 jedi all duking it out with lightsabers...tres' cool...

p4@1.8GHZ
intel D850MV mobo
768MB PC800 rambus
pny g3 ti 500 dr. ver. 28.32(default settings)
audigy x-gamer
wireless intellimouse explorer
klipsch promedia 5.1's
WinME with all updates and patches
dx 8.1

Hurin
03-31-2002, 09:30 PM
Dem@rco,

If TJStiffler doesn't notice the quick-load FPS-degradation problem, and he has the same video card as we do (ti500). . . I wonder if it is a combination of the SBLive and the GF3 ti500? TJ has a SB Audigy. We both have SBLives.

Our motherboards are all different: You have Via chipset (for Athlon). I have an Intel 845D (DDR) chipset. TJ has Intel 850 chipset. So, unless it's an intel-wide thing, I don't think it's the motherboard.

I wonder if disabling the SBLive temporarily would "fix" the problem. If so, that would give us hope.

I won't be able to troubleshoot it today. . . but if you give it a try, let me know.

(edit added later: It looks like TJStiffler *may* be talking about MP games. The quickload performance degradation problem is only a Single-player problem. . . but disabling the SBLive may still be worth a look)

Hurin

TheMadDoofer
03-31-2002, 09:40 PM
Be glad that your game actually works! :ball:

:fett:

tjstiffler
03-31-2002, 10:25 PM
i was referring to multiplay against 8 bots...but my single player has experienced no slowdowns even when multiple stormtroopers are firing repeaters at the same time, i'm deflecting them, using force push(i LOVE that power)...etc...lots happening but smooth play nonetheless. it takes about 11 seconds to load a save game but only about 2 seconds to quickload from ingame...i quickload at least 20 times or more a session off an ata100 WD 30GB IDE drive running at 7200rpm... i'm running on a homebuilt, non-overclocked system...off-the-shelf components. hope you guys get it worked out...this game is, by far, the best fps i've ever played...#2 being NOLF, #3 SOF, #4 Jedi Knight Dark Forces II...anyway good luck...

Snake Eyes
04-01-2002, 04:18 AM
I think the minimum or even the recomended specs for this game
are a joke. I've got an :

Athlon TB 1233
Epox 8KHA+
256 DDR @ 145 FSB @ Cas 2
GeForce 3 Ti 200 (220/450)
Windows 98 SE
Detonator 23.11

And it runs like a joke sometimes. I've turned everything on the minimum settings (shadows off, etc) and while it's a lot smoother you can definetly see that it's not silky smooth.

There are also certain parts of the map which "die in the bum"
each and every time. There's a few of these places on the first level alone. When there's a few storm troopers on the screen the frame rate takes a big phatt hit and while it's playable on the minimum settings i don't think i'm gonna ruin it for myself by playing with such crappy graphics. :(

I've also noted that other ppl with kick arse system (better even then my half-decent PC) are having similar FPS probs. However you then read about ppl with lesser systems then my own (and these other kick arse systems) who are having a silky smooth experience. What is up with *that*?

Well.. i hope we can all figure this out. I was really looking forward to playing this game given how much i enjoyed the original Jedi Knight.

Cherrn
04-01-2002, 10:28 AM
I don't think Quickloading is the problem, because whenever I load on my system, yes, the game slows down as hell. However, it doesn't stay that way for more than 10 seconds, then it reverbs back to normal.

I found that the best option is to turn down textures and colour to 16 bit... it helps, and you can't see *that* big of a difference, as you can with tuning down geometric detail.
Still think it's rotten how we high-end users must have such a crappy FPS.

I have a p4 1.7 ghz, regular GeForce3 w/ 64 mb and 512 mb RAM. I don't have soundblaster live, or any fancy soundcard, I use the regular win drivers for sound. I run win2k.

After what I've gathered at several forums, this problem has been remedied for a lot of people who switched to win XP, so I'm gonna try that. Can't say if it'll work, but I'm gonna try anyways.

The_BZA
04-01-2002, 02:04 PM
well, i am having choppy slowdows also and didnt know it was such a big issue, i am running

AMD 1.0 gig
ECS K7VZA mobo (Via KT133 chipset)
512 MB PC133 RAM
PNY Verto GeForce 4 Ti4400 (Overclocked 310/620)

and i get chop chop slowdowns on my system also, that makes NO sense for a GeForce *4*!!!!!! and its not even a crappy GF 4mx, its a Ti. anyway, i kinda thought it may relate to refresh or monitor quality, im on a 2 yr old Dell . any thoughts?

DeM@rco
04-01-2002, 02:37 PM
Hey guys,

Yesterday I was not able to troubleshoot, too, but today I gave Hurinsīsuggestion a shot, and disabled the SB Live. But it did not do much for me, still the same crappy performance only without sound :rolleyes:

Donīt laugh now, but by coincidene I found a workaround, thatīs pretty weird and maybe only works for me....
First I must say, that I have this perfoemance issue every now and then, when I load from scratch or from the in-game menu, too. Which bothers me even more.
Whenever I load a savegame with low fps, I just activate the Light amplifier once...then the game loads for some seconds and it runs smooth as butter on my breakfast toast again :D
This little "magic trick" works not always, I can do it about 3-4 times in a row, then it becomes useless.

@Cherm
Hmm..at least for Hurin and me the (quick)loads are indeed causing the problems. Youīre right, that the fps reverb after some seconds. But itīs diferent in my case.
For example: I load a saved game (indoor) and I have about 30 fps...after a few seconds I have 40fps, but not the 100 fps I get usually, when JK runs okay. I also tried to turn down textures to 16bits, but this didnīt help me much, once the fps are crawling. So for now, I wonīt turn down JKīs GFX anymore and stick with my little trick and try every other tweaks, that will be posted in this forum. Hopefully a patch will fix this in the near future.

Bye m8s
Marco

ShrewLWD
04-01-2002, 02:52 PM
I have an even simpler solution to the quickload problem...
play the level without dying! ;)

--SORRY! Couldn't resist!

Actually, I also notice heavy FPS drops when I quick reload...I just activate any weapon with a scope, and after a few seconds the FPS are back up to the high numbers again.

SYSTEM:
AMD 2100+
256DDR
Geforce4 Ti4400 (28.32, nView disabled)
Audigy
Win98se

Cherrn
04-01-2002, 04:27 PM
Alright, say the choppy FPS after a quickload is removed. That still doesn't account for the choppy FPS that occurs when multiple enemies are on screen.

Good examples are in kejim_base, when you first climb the pipes, in the sentry tower with 8 stormtroopers or so.

Another is when you first enter nar shadaa, and enter the bar.

Hurin
04-01-2002, 04:32 PM
That's correct DeM@rco. My FPS never bounces back after a quick-load. It just stays crappy. I would understand if there were a couple seconds of hiccups while textures are reset/reloaded. . . but this slow performance continues until I quit the game and restart. To be honest, I haven't played much since I discovered this problem. So, I may someday get the problem from a load "from scratch". I really haven't tested it much. . . I just gave up in disgust. :)

Anyways, just wanted to clear up that quick-loading *does* have something to do with it. It's not just hiccups. I hope LucasArts or Raven is looking at this.

Anyways, I'll try those tricks you mention DeM@rco. Sounds like it may get me cruising along again. I'll let you guys know.

That tip might also help them track down the problem!

Best Regards,

Hurin

Hurin
04-01-2002, 04:38 PM
Hehe Cherrn. . . one thing at a time! :P

Actually, they may still be related.

Personally, I don't really notice a bad slowdown with a lot of stormtroopers on the screen. . . unless of course, I've done a quickload.

But, they may still be related in some distant way. Fixing the quickload problem may lead them to fix performance more generally.

I actually wouldn't mind if it slowed down every once in a while. . . but it's very frustrating knowing that something is screwy under the hood that is causing your hardware not to perform optimally for the vast majority of the time.

Best Regards,

Hurin

Corrvan
04-01-2002, 11:25 PM
well me, 512 sdram, p4 1.8 ghz, GF 3 hercules prohpet TI 500, IBMXP 7200 RPM 60 gig.. soudblaster live.. when i had a 256 in it ran excellent at about 50-70 FPS nealry anywhere on FULLEST detail (except shadows) now with the GF 3, 10-20 FPS anywhere on lower detail.. HMMM....

GreyWing
04-01-2002, 11:38 PM
I've got the same problem. I'm on the mining level now and the FPS is dipping below 20 outdoors.

My System:
ECS K7S5A (SiS) Mainboard (Latest AGP/RTD upgrades)
AMD Athlon XP 1600+
384MB of PC133 SDRAM
VisionTek GeForce3 Ti200 (Detonator4: 27.70, 27.42, 23.11, 21.83)
SoundBlaster Audigy Gamer (Latest drivers)
5400RPM UltraATA 100 Maxtor HD (DMA enabled)

I actually wouldn't mind if it slowed down every once in a while. . . but it's very frustrating knowing that something is screwy under the hood that is causing your hardware not to perform optimally for the vast majority of the time.

Well said man, well said. That's EXACTLY how I feel about this and many other games (C&C Renegade, Deus Ex, etc. etc.). It's funny how when you pick up a box for a shiny new video card in the store how it's laced with dozens of features from end to end, then when you bring it home you seen a small improvement if any at all. I wonder if there are or will ever be any games that fully utilize the hardware of a good video card. It seems like such a waste.

Hurin
04-02-2002, 04:56 AM
I just got off my lazy a$$ and sent this to LucasArts via the Yoda Helpdesk:

------------

Hi there,

There seems to be a widespread problem with the performance of Jedi Outcast that cannot be simply attributed to users setting the video/performance options too high.

I'm going to use the term "we" below because quite a few of us on the lucasforums.com site have noticed this odd behavior.

I hate to jump to conclusions, but it's apparently a bug in the game because, for a while, everything runs *great*. . . we're getting 70-90 frames-per-second (fps). . . but as soon as we load a quicksave, the performance drops to 40-50fps (and as low as 20fps in outdoor areas).

Now, if the game were always slow, I'd assume that it was something wrong with my computer. But because a somewhat routine and normally trouble-free action causes the performance hit, it would seem to be a problem with the software itself.

I noticed this most prominently on the level where I am fighting AT-STs while trying to destroy the ion cannons (while the prisoners wait for pickup).

Some say that using the light-amplification goggles often brings frame rates back up (two or three times, then this fix stops functioning until the game is fully exited and restarting). Others use the scope in a similar fashion. Again, not to be pushy, but does this odd behavior not point to a pretty severe performance-sapping bug? I mean, why would loading a saved game cause this behavior. . . and perhaps more importantly, why would momentarily looking through a weapon's scope fix it?

Anyways, there are at least three posts on the lucasforums about this issue with multiple people reporting it. And, unfortunately, there are probably a lot more people who don't realize the *source* of the slow-down, and just assume that the game is more technically demanding than it actually is. (not that the game isn't beautiful and incredibly good! It is! But we want to experience it in all the glory that our hardware is apparently able to provide. . . were it not for this bug).

Here are two threads on the lucasarts forums, please take a look!

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35985

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37684

There are a *lot* of posts there from various users with all sorts of different graphics cards (though I think all those reporting this problem have the titanium version of the GeForce 3 & 4). I'm sure you guys could get a lot more info form those threads directly than I am able to provide here. It would be great if you could browse on over there.

Might this problem also have something to do with the reports of there being little-to-no difference in FPS for those with powerful systems who try everything between 640x480 to 1600x1200. . . and the framerates don't change by more than 5-10fps? Just hoping. . . cuz that has been somewhat frustrating as well. :)

My System Configuration:

(All drivers were downloaded today prior to machine wipe. . . so all should be newest except the NVidia ones which I purposefully left at v23.11)

P4 2Ghz (Northwood)
Asus P4B266-C Motherboard (newest Intel Chipset Drivers)
512 MB DDR RAM (Corsair 2400)
GF3 ti500 (Detonator Driver v23.11. Hercules Brand.)
SB Live X-Gamer (non-5.1) (Driver v3509.2.0.0 --Newest--)
Adaptec 29160N SCSI Controller
Quantum Atlas 10K III 18GB
Plextor UltraPlex 40
Yamaha 4x2x16x CDRW
3Com 3C905C-TX Network Card
DirectX 8.1 freshly downloaded from WindowsUpdate.

I hope you will pass this email on to those who can fully investigate it. Personally, I've given up on the game and am really anxious to have a fix so that I can play it (with optimal performance). This really is an incredible game!

Please let me know if you are aware of this issue, and if so, is there any fix in sight?

Thanks!

Brian

ritchiediaz
04-02-2002, 08:26 AM
I have a slightly different problem...

I have P3 1G, with 512 Ram, Geforce 2MX and Win2k, sblive..

performance is great...no slow down yet at all, but very slow load times...

however, I'm certain that the game is running at 640*480, even though I've changed it to 1024*768 in the settings...

I've taken screens from different resolutions, and they are the same...every other game (RTCW etc) when you up the res, the HUD shrinks...not JK2...

I've e-mailed support, but get the usual change drivers story...

What is strange though, is that when I got to the console and check my mode...( r_mode), it returns 6, which SHOULD be 1024*768, but it certainly don't look like it...

Any ideas?

Ritchie

Pyronious
04-02-2002, 08:48 AM
I was experiencing very choppy gameplay as well, even though my frame rate counter was hovering around 100fps. For some reason it just wasn't smooth.

Two things seemed to have worked for me. First of all, I turned the texture filtering to "Bilinear" instead of "Trilinear". Also I turned "Video Sync" to "on". All of a sudden I had SILKY SMOOTH gameplay! Although my FPS was now reading 60.

Now normally I find that turning on Video Sync slows things down, but in this game it seems to have the exact opposite effect, at least for me.

Anyway, give these two settings a shot and see if it improves things for you. Despite the lower frame rate in the counter, the gameplay seems MUCH smoother to me.

My System:

Athlon 1.4 GHz
512 MB RAM
Geforce3 64MB
Detonator 23.11 drivers (recommend by LucasArts instead of the most recent).

MajBlunder
04-02-2002, 05:45 PM
Hi,

after reading this thread thinkin I might find a tip or two about increasing performance, i found something that seemed strange, everyone that posted something here about a severe slowdown after loading a quicksave had a GF video card.
Well I have a Radeon8500 and dont have these 'slowdowns' after using F9.(which happens quite alot..hehe)
I am having slowdowns in outside areas, and somtimes in large fights, but this seems to be common.
(SP settings)
High geometry
High textures
1280x1024
32 bit colors and textures
billinear
ansiotropic on (also enabled on hardware 16x)
Shadows set to simple

Unless we get some other Radeon users to confirm this, based on just my report, it seems this only effects GF users. So maybe its a driver issue?

My problem lies with the MP, the same video settings i use in SP cause very low fps in MP.
So far the only thing that has worked is turning textures to low(yuk) and geometry to med(yuk) and turning off ansio, both ingame and in hardware.
Changing resolutions doesnt effect my FPS, im playing at 1600x1200 and get same as 640x480.
Using these settings i can stay above 35fps on all the MP maps
Using SP settings it would run in the low to mid 20s.

(sys specs)

TB 1.2gig
512meg pc150 sdram
SbLive 5.1 gamer
Radeon 8500 (using 9021 drivers)
DX8.1
Win98se
Via 4/1 4.38



Hope we can find a resolution to these problems.

MajBlunder

WhiteChedda
04-02-2002, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Hurin
I just posted a similar thread at:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36952

I'm seeing no real difference in framerates no matter whether I'm running at 640x480 or 1600x1200. It's always 60fps, give or take 10fps. (this is during the timedemo benchmark. See http://www.hardocp.com for instructions on running the benchmark).

Anyways, during SP, at 1280x1024, most of the game is fine. . . and FPS hovers between 40-70fps most of the time. However, in large outdoor scenes, it drops to 25-30 quite often.

My setup is as follows:

Windows XP Pro
Pentium 4 2Ghz (Northwood)
Asus P4B266-C Motherboard
512MB DDR RAM
Geforce 3 ti500
Sound Blaster Live

Just thought this info might help. You might also check out my other thread.

Best Regards,

Hurin

You need to set opengl vsync option to ALWAYS OFF and that will stop. I should clarify here, in the video card driver options, under opengl, not game options. :)

To the rest of you, if you are unhappy with performance and you have a system with an extra GB or 2 of HD space to spare, listen up. This is an old jedi trick, I mean quaker trick.

Locate the install path and the base sub folder under it, notice there are 2 pk3 files. These are Winzipped files. Using winzip, unzip them into the base subfolder, but make sure you specify to use folder info. this will create a butload of folders and files on your system [thats why I said a GB or 2 to spare]. Once extracted, move those two files from the base path [I suggest the Lucasarts folder for easy locating if needed later]. What this does is eliminates the need for the engine to decompress files from the zip archine when needed. you should keep the archines because in my expereince, you may need them in that path for patches, but if you leave them in the base folder, the engine will ignore the extracted files, so you have to move them. renaming them does not seem to work either, not sure why, tried adding an l to the beginning and changing ext to pk33, still picked them up. I know because I modified a menu file so I could see if it was working and I did not get the error expected intil I moved them. it was the same way with Q3 so I expected this, but I always check.

One more worthwhile sideeffect of this is load times are quicker because your not uncompresing the files needed during level load. :)

SlitherSly
04-03-2002, 02:20 AM
Ok, this sounds like an interesting trick to try out, but how would I select use folder info?

Hurin
04-03-2002, 04:46 AM
Whitechedda,

Thanks for the idea. . . but it ain't vsynch. I have it turned off in both the game, and in the advanced properties of the video card. Oh, and since my refresh rate is set to 85, wouldn't the fps hover at 85 if that were the problem?

Sorry to sound like a smart-ass. . . :)

But, I mean, after all I've posted, do I really sound like that much of a rookie!?! Heh.

Hurin

DeM@rco
04-03-2002, 02:15 PM
Hey guys,

I had not much time to hit the froums lately, and in my sparetime I was playing a bit JO. Since I try to avoid dying as hell now, it adds a more realistic feeling to the game, maybe that was their intention for some of us GeForce users ;)

@Hurin
Very nice E-Mail U send to them, I am quite sure, that they are aware of our problem now. You pointed out all the things they need to know, so the only thing left for them, is to fix that darn bug. ;)
I only hope this bug doesnīt slip into SOF 2 somehow :rolleyes:

Bye,

Marco

WhiteChedda
04-03-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Hurin
Whitechedda,

Thanks for the idea. . . but it ain't vsynch. I have it turned off in both the game, and in the advanced properties of the video card. Oh, and since my refresh rate is set to 85, wouldn't the fps hover at 85 if that were the problem?

Sorry to sound like a smart-ass. . . :)

But, I mean, after all I've posted, do I really sound like that much of a rookie!?! Heh.

Hurin

Well 2 reasons, one you'd be surprised at the number of people [some of them very good at tweaking computers, overclocking, etc..] not even aware there are opengl settings in nvidia drivers.
2. Setting it to off by default does not get the job done, a lot of people think thats turning it off, but it MUST be ALWAYS OFF.

If you are sure your running at 85hz when you run the game, then yes 85FPS should be where it hovers, however note that the new nvidia drivers [the latest ones] seem to have an issue with this, and in that case if you run XP or W2k, go check for the modified version at 3dgpu.com, if you run w/ 9x reinstall your display adapter [and do the correct one] to fix the issue.

WhiteChedda
04-03-2002, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by SlitherSly
Ok, this sounds like an interesting trick to try out, but how would I select use folder info?

Open up winzip [the program don't use the extract to menu in explorer] open the archives ans click the extract button [forgot to mention I use the winzip classic interfce, if your a winzip wizard user, can't help you....]. It will prompt you for the path and on the lower left there are a few chck boxes, one is use folder info/names or something like that, check that box and proceed.

SkyLightWalker
04-03-2002, 03:46 PM
Original Message From Glycerine
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on a P4 1.9 with 512MB and a GeForce 3 I should be able to turn all the detail options to max at 1280x1024 and still get super smooth framerates...right? I bumped it down to 1024x768 and it runs smooth most of the time, only slowing down in certain areas. (The moving bridge, and barred doorway in the Jedi Test level to be exact...)

Are you insane? Why is everyone so obessed with running the game at ridiculous settings and then complain when it doesn't work. Just turn them down. its recmmended that you don't play above 1024x768 (even 800x600 if possible).

I have an AMD600MHz, 256Mb RAM and an PCI ATI Rage grpahics accelerator. I run the SP in 640x480, 16-bit colours and textures, High geometric detail, and medium texture detail. I also have sound on low quality, but I do have dynamic lighting and wall marks on.

The loading times are reasonable (less than 30secs) and the game runs perfectly. Admittedly the mining level was a bit slow outside, but nothing has been unplayable.

I can't understand all you ppl with super computers - ESPECIALLY when mine plays fine, and looks GREAT!

SkyLightWalker
04-03-2002, 03:59 PM
Original Message from WhiteChedda
To the rest of you, if you are unhappy with performance and you have a system with an extra GB or 2 of HD space to spare, listen up. This is an old jedi trick, I mean quaker trick.

I have an old jedi trick (I mean, "some-guy-who-can't-afford-the latest-hardware) too: TURN DOWN YOUR SETTINGS.

Even if you CAN afford all the new hardward you could carry - if its not working quite as you want, stop complaining and just ease up on the options - its not *that* hard, really its not.

Now my Deathstar is gonna blow all your rich-boy equipment to ****:

:deathstar ZZZAP!

HAHA! NOW complain! :D

Hurin
04-03-2002, 11:02 PM
SkyLightWalker,

Thanks for your *opinion*. . . but well. . .

First, some of us are concerned about a *bug*. Again, I wouldn't mind so much if the game were just so technically demanding that it made my machine behave like a 286. . . but the fact that there is apparently a *bug* that makes this game slow down only after a certain (normally harmless) action is carried out, shows that there is something *wrong* with the game and we are not getting the visuals, performance, or experience that we expected, want, and paid for (both for the game, and our hardware).

Second, even if there were no bug, I don't begrudge you your preference for playing a game at 640x480. Please don't begrudge me my preference for higher resolutions and better visuals. Personally, in my humble opinion, there is just no comparison between JKII at 640x480 and at 1280x1024. I've seen both, and I'd rather not even play the former. That's my opinion. . . just because you don't agree doesn't mean we shouldn't be here asking LucasArts/Raven if there is anything to be done about the bug, or for "poor" performance in general.

I know tons of people who think I'm crazy because I bought so much home theater equipment. They are happy with watching a movie un-letterboxed on a tiny little TV with tinny sound. I can't do that. . . I hate doing that. But, I don't give them a hard time about it. . . and they don't suddenly accost me about how much I spent on my TV (much). It's the same sorta deal here.

It seems we've reached that unavoidable part of the thread where there is nothing useful left to say. . . where we wait for a response from LucasArts. . . and watch as bored adolescents come in, spout their (completely unhelpful, but very self-righteous) opions, and then move on. . .

Can we please keep things productive here? Thank you, please drive through. . .

Hurin

Mcloud
04-03-2002, 11:34 PM
trouble getting into this forum, busy

im also getting slow performance

AMD 1.3ghz on via/msi k7t266 pro mobo
512mb ddr ram
elsa g920 geforce3 64mb, 28.3 det4 drivers (will try 23.5)
win 98

i run it at 1024 32bit, with full geometry/detail settings, with bilinear and 16 bit textures, full lighting and shadows (vital for the atmosphere)
in heavy areas i have to set shadows to simple

seems more about the refresh rate, i get no big frame rate pauses, but slight variations in fps and a constant "blurred" effect without big differences between settings/resolutions (volumetric shadows seems the biggest variation tho)

i can run wolfenstein and max payne at much higher settings and it remains silky smooth

glad theres a few of us with complaints, it might get fixed as its really an awesome game in parts


re: skylightwalker - hurins right (tho turin was mghtier :))
u dont buy a ferrari and drive it at 30mph

BlacKnight
04-04-2002, 01:34 AM
I didn't have time to read the whole thread but this sounds like a problem I had. here is where I found the fix for it hope this helps
http://www.nvnews.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12941

Hurin
04-04-2002, 04:43 AM
I scouted out that thread over at nvnews. Essentially, the fix for BlackKnight's problem was to download the drivers for his motherboard. He had reformatted his machine and had not yet installed the Intel drivers for his 850 chipset motherboard. Of course, VIA chipset people will need to download the newest 4-in-1 drivers instead.

Well. . . anyways. . . I posted a quick summary of what we're noticing over there. Maybe someone will have some ideas.

I still haven't gotten a response from LucasArts. Maybe that's actually a good sign. Maybe they're researching it rather than just chalking it up to having vsynch on. . . having the settings too high. . . or not having proper drivers.

Thanks everyone for your input. It's good to rule out stuff. . .

Best Regards,

Hurin

Sarcastic Saint
04-04-2002, 06:53 AM
Ok now this is odd....i have a 466Mhz 128Ram and Gf2MX 32DDR
And the game runs fine...on 1024 32bit, settings on medium, which still looks pretty great.
And other settings like anositropic filtering i left it on...dont know what framerates i'm getting havent tested that yet but it runs pretty smooth, very smooth in fact....except ofcourse in certain areas in certain outdoor maps....but everybody seems to have that same problem.

So yeah it must be a bug...oh and loading times are under 30sec if i start a new level and quickloading is 10sec or less and i don't seem to have that "fps-drop-after-Qloading" problem.

So far i've encountered only 1 bug, that when i wanted to exit the game it kept hanging on the menu screen...so i didnt get to see the desktop....but that happened only once...so far.

specs:

466Mhz
128Ram
Geforce2 Mx 32DDR (drivers; 12.90)-from Creative Labs
win98SE
Dx8.0a

Hope that in some way this helps...for reference sake and all...Man i feel really sorry for those who cant play the game....Raven should really start replying...like that they're working on a patch or something and give a little hope to those poor unfortunate gamers. :(

Mcloud
04-04-2002, 09:59 AM
been messing about a bit more on single player, tried the 23.11 drivers as opposed to the 28.3 and saw no difference

using the "com_maxfps" command to 150 the game will remain at +100fps (was 80fps before) through most scenes unless it gets really hectic (i.e luke and kyle vs 5 reborn) where it can drop to 60 or so

this is with 1024 32bit, full geometry + detail with bilinear and 16bit texture colour and volumetric shadows TURNED OFF

switch ON the shadows and it will drop to around 60fps on average and 25 when theres alot of action

interestingly im using the increased dismemberment commands :)
and see little or no detriment to performance, i would have thought this would affect it alot when theres 30 bodyparts being force pushed around

i know volumetric shadows are intensive but just dont think they should lower performance by this much

WhiteChedda
04-04-2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by SkyLightWalker


I have an old jedi trick (I mean, "some-guy-who-can't-afford-the latest-hardware) too: TURN DOWN YOUR SETTINGS.

Even if you CAN afford all the new hardward you could carry - if its not working quite as you want, stop complaining and just ease up on the options - its not *that* hard, really its not.

Now my Deathstar is gonna blow all your rich-boy equipment to ****:

:deathstar ZZZAP!

HAHA! NOW complain! :D

Skywalker, I have been thrilled with 3D graphics since I first saw doom. Even though it wasn't true 3D graphics. I have learned that part of 3D graphics is performance, and its an important part, another part is reaslism, or rather getting closer to it.

Turning off effects is NOT getting closer to it. Yes, it make the game playable [well sometimes, I never managed to get UT playable], but eye candy is PART of any 3D game experience, otherwise we'd all still be playing games on a 2.5D 320x200 resolution,256 color engine that was badly pixelated, had you hovering about 2 feet off of the ground, and didn't even know what physics were. :p

If you're happy with your frame rate, smile, sit back, and let us compu-game geeks do our thing for our frame rate, thank you, and may the force be with you.

Mcloud
04-04-2002, 10:34 AM
just had another play around,

60fps should still be perfectly playable and it is, but my problem seems to stem more from a texture refresh rate problem, even at 150fps (at any resolution) i still get this mild flicker effect as you move the mouse that can strain eyes after a while, almost as if the textures are moving slightly then readjusting, never experienced this with other games

ive messed around with the vsync and my screen refresh rate already

raven says theyve doubled the polygon count on jd2 compared to q3, but my RTCW ran perfectly

weird

Chiles4
04-04-2002, 02:03 PM
Just wanted to add to the theory that it may be a "GeForce" problem.

My system:
1.2G Tbird
512MB DDR
IBM 60GXP 7200rpm HDD
Kyro 2 (Hercules)
Windows 98SE
DirectX 8.0a

Running JO with:
Anisotropic OFF
Detail High
Textures 32-bit
Res. 12x10x32
Shadows Simple

As you can see the only compromises I've made are the Anisotropic and the Shadows. I have consistently gotten good performance on JO with my rig. I'm currently playing at 12x10x32 and getting avg fps of 50-60 but dipping to 28 in the "worst" oudoor views. I find the game to be very playable without any problems.

At first I thought that XP users were getting the bad performance but I guess there are Win98 users suffering as well. Honestly, I've never used quickload - I always go back to the main menu. But I do HATE the load menu - It makes me feel like a drunk trying to play darts.

Traidur
04-04-2002, 03:56 PM
I'd just like to chime in here and say I've had the same problem with the player saved loading. I've noticed it's not just quicksaves but any player saved game (it doesn't do it with the autosaves however). I also have a GeForce. The wierd thing is, I've experienced this once in multiplayer, anyone else? I played a duel level (hardly a strain for a GeForce 3!) and the fps was crap. I reloaded it and huzzah, normal fps. I've only seen this once and it doesn't seem consistant with the loading problem, maybe it was just a one time thing, hopefully.

Hurin
04-06-2002, 06:12 AM
Hey all,

I posted this to the other thread entitled "loading quicksave = LAG" as well.

Now, let's be clear. . . this post is in regard to the problem where loading quicksaves suddenly makes your FPS performance drop by half (more-or-less). This isn't about the more general quirky performance, etc. Well. . .

I think I have a solution/cause!!!

Could you guys please test this?

It occured to me. . . when do you normally load a quicksave?. . . after you die, right?

And, what often happens when you die? The game enters "slow-motion" mode to show Kyle getting his ass kicked Matrix-style.

So. . . it occured to me. . . the game is artificially slowing itself down. . . what if it is forgetting to throw the switch and speed itself back up once you load the quicksave? Or, perhaps we're jumping the gun and loading the quicksave before the game would normally throw the switch (at the end of the slomo death scene).

Anyways. . . to test it, I turned off slow-motion deaths in the options menu. I was then able to load quicksaves on the AT-ST/Ion cannon levels without any slow-down at all. I was running between 60-90fps the entire time.

This would also explain why some people have said that they don't suffer the problem when they load checkpoints. . . and why we don't normally see the problem when we restart the game. You have to have *died* (and perhaps gone to load a game before the slo-mo death animation finishes) to see the problem. Of course, this is a theory, but my testing seems to help my case. :)

Why don't you guys give it a try and let me know if it removes the quicksave performance problem as well.

Thanks!

Hurin

Hurin
04-06-2002, 07:16 AM
Hmmm. . . well. . . it was a good try. After playing about an hour, the quickload FPS-hit struck again.

Oh well. . . back to the drawing board. . .

Hurin

CaptainRAVE
04-06-2002, 11:09 AM
I only get an extremly low framerate when I go into an outdoor area :s......its very annoying.

cj7816
04-06-2002, 01:55 PM
Yeah, I am also getting the usual hit outside and with lots of enemies around, too. However, I haven't had quickload problems. I am playing with slo-mo deaths set to "never." I'm also wondering if it's a GeForce thing. After reading this thread it seems like everyone having this problem has a GF3 (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). I have a GF2mx400 and a GF4mx440 (which I bough only to get zero performance increase) and I don't have quickload problems with either one of them. If somebody out there who IS having this problem has access to a GF2 or a GF4, try it out to see if this could be the problem.

...For general perfomance, somebody suggested turning off vsink in opengl setup ... somebody else said turn it on in the game ... etc. I messed around with all the vsink settings and they didn't make any difference on my machine.

By the way... I have:
AMD 1.3ghz
512mb
GF2mx
GF4mx440
DirectX 8.1
Detonator 28

Grins2Pain
04-06-2002, 06:15 PM
Dont be an ******* SkyLightWalker. I work at Wal-Mart and have spent a ton of spare money I saved up on my system. Instead of getting (insert $1000 dollars of various fun things to buy) I saved up until the GeForce 4's came out, and I outfitted myself with a GeForce 4 Ti 4600, an nForce motherboard and a Athlon XP 1800 and 256 mb DDR. You may notice that this system is not only powerful, but cost effective and custom made. I have a crisp, clear, 15" moniter that I salvaged for $15 dollars and fixed with a soldering gun. I didn't just burrow my daddys credit card and phone alienware. I don't insult anyone for having slower hardware, because I understand how much you have to sacrifice to have a "supercomputer" I would ask you to think about why I deserve to be insulted for not wanting to turn my settings down when it is OBVIOUS that my system should probably be able to handle all the settings of Jedi Outcast.

Hurin
04-06-2002, 06:22 PM
Hehe, I thought we had left Skylightwalker behind. . . but I too would like to point out that I am an adult and I spend my own hard-earned money on my system(s) as well. :)

But, having said that, Skylight is obviously a troll whose only purpose here is to ruffle our feathers. We should just ignore him. :)

Hurin

Lime-Light
04-06-2002, 06:30 PM
Ive got a 1.4 gig /w 256 DDR ram, GF2 MX 400, winME.

I have everytyhing at max, 800x600 res (becuase there's no friggin difference between 800x600 and 1024x768 when in the heat of battle) and get rock-steady 40fps and relativly fast loads.

Bragon
04-06-2002, 07:18 PM
I have an Athlon 1.4 Ghz, 256 mb RAM, ATI Radeon 32mb DDR card.

I had no problem at all with the game, running it at 1024*760 until I got the Yavin levels. There, with the rain, the plants, the fog, the game ran sloooooow so I had to run ti at 800*600 and change some other settings. It still isn't as fast as before.

cj7816
04-08-2002, 02:46 AM
Man, I'm so happy. I just decided to quit messing with my GF4mx and get a GF3ti - which at first didn't run any better. Today I figured out that I didn't have the right AGP drivers installed and fixing that made a world of difference.

Now I'm running on HighQuality + 1600x1200 resolution (no volumetrics). I now get up to 200fps and the lowest that I have dropped to is 20fps in really big areas like artus_mine.

Also, does anybody know how to check your AGP bandwidth? I want to make sure that mine is set to 4x.

Hurin
04-08-2002, 06:59 AM
Okay, posted this to the main other thread. But just in case people aren't following that (sorry if this annoys anyone):

Just a couple of new notes:

1. The observations others have made are correct. The quickloading of an auto-save does not *always* cause the FPS take a nose-dive until the game is restarted. It seems to happen only 1/3 of the time. But, that 1/3 sucks because then you have to restart JKII altogether (if the goggle or scope trick doesn't work).

2. I confirmed that using the scope or the low-light goggles *does* bring the FPS back to normal. . . once or twice. But after one or two times, it stops fixing it, and you must quit and restart JKII.

3. Just a quick observation. It seems to be normal for the FPS to be low for a few seconds right after a save is loaded. Then, after about 3-5 seconds, they jump up to normal/fast speed. I used to think this was the textures loading into the video card's RAM, so I would spin around during the laggy time to get them all loaded. I have since noted that the normal short period of lag lasts the same amount of time whether I spin or not. Anyways, my point is that it seems like a "switch" of some kind is thrown 3-5 seconds after a saved game is loaded. Optimally, when that switch is thrown, performance increases to normal/fast levels. But, perhaps, what we are noticing after the quicksave is quickloaded is that this switch is not being thrown properly. . . because the performance never increases to normal/fast levels. Make sense?

4. Finally, I think maybe doing a vid_restart from the console may bring things back to normal performance after the quickload bug strikes. But I haven't had a chance to test this.

That's all. . . Best of luck figuring this out. Personally, I now consider the game unplayable. I'm on Nar Shaada right now and I die so often. . . and then load a game only to have my system's performance stink. . . and then it's two-three minutes of quitting and restarting JKII altogether. Bleh. . . it ruins the game.

Best Regards,

Hurin

Ning24
04-08-2002, 09:09 AM
I also get stuttering in outdoor areas, and when their is a lot of heavy auto-fire going on (being outdoors is the bigger problem). Changing the detail levels to real low or real high doesn't do much of anything to change this.

Some of you guys are mentioning video cards other than mine, and thinking that it is a problem with certain cards. Well I have a 3d Prophet 4500.
I have 320 MB RAM, 500 MHz Celeron, and Windows 98. I also have pretty slow loud times, it takes a minute or two. (I haven't timed it.)

WhiteChedda
04-08-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Hurin

4. Finally, I think maybe doing a vid_restart from the console may bring things back to normal performance after the quickload bug strikes. But I haven't had a chance to test this.


Sounds like the texture buffers are not being flushed with the quick load. I don;t have my console list in front of me, but soemthing b_flush or maybe just flush may also fix the problem, a vid_restart by definition will automatically flush all buffers, so....