PDA

View Full Version : Formations


darthfergie
08-19-2001, 06:19 PM
We have all seen or hear about formations in AoK. They work for that time. I just hope they don't use the same formations. They should have skirmisher formatios etc. because this is the age of the future. If you have rank upon rank right in a tight group then you are waisting men in the back and you have a tremendous death wish for your troops. They will just get mowed down and packing them all together is an artillery dream . Remember in AoK you formation gets hit by an oneger and the entire formation is Dead or well on their way to death. Do you think they have changed up the formations in this game?

Darth_Rommel
08-19-2001, 06:36 PM
The formation in AOK weren't bad... I thought they were pretty good... they just didn't have any impact on the game ;)

darthfergie
08-19-2001, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Darth_Rommel
The formation in AOK weren't bad... I thought they were pretty good... they just didn't have any impact on the game ;)

Ever tried using that clomn formation. It was a pain. Every time you would get stuck. But that is a little off-topic here. If you noticed in AoK you will find that the first formation that you use is the tightly packed formation. If they did this in the SW universe they would easily be mowed down without a chance. Now it is becoming more and more possible to have an army of one. Just imagine the Dark Trooper p3...that is an army of ONE.

Sherack Nhar
08-19-2001, 06:49 PM
Well, you should all remember what formation the Battle Droids used in TPM during the last confrontation between the Gungans and the Trade Federation... tightly packed groups.

And they got hammered by the Gungan's energy balls too :D
GO GUNGANS!!

Tie Guy
08-19-2001, 06:57 PM
One thing that i didn't like about the formations is that the heavily armoured troops were in the front. They should arrange it by height, and range. Tall mechs should be in the back, where they are still effective but let your other troops attack too. Also, ranged units should be behind melee troops, so that they all can attack. That way, everyone can attack from their position, not just the front line.

Also, i didn't like how they fell out of formation every time you gave them a new command, they should just stay in formation. Instead they slowed down, and you couldn't give them quick commands while moving.

Other than that, i liked them.

Master Yoda
08-19-2001, 07:40 PM
I agree Tie, the AOK formations were ok but when all it did was make it so your troops were a little more manageable it wasnt really worth it when it didnt impact game play,

Tie Guy
08-19-2001, 08:29 PM
Actually, i found them quite usefull in defense. You couls set up a formation of arbalests, and then tell them to stand their group and not much in the way of troops could get by. And if you did it with longbowmen, nothing could come close.

Master Yoda
08-19-2001, 08:33 PM
But that was all they were good for.. (I like to do that with 40 longbowmen and set monk right behind them to heal them when they get hurt.)

Lord JayVizIon
08-20-2001, 02:33 AM
well, the only way i found AoK formations helpful was to spread them out so when onagers were kicking in, not as many troops were smoked as when you tightly pack them. but they don't have significance in the game so much.

i think they should and will have melee units in front and ranged units in the back, it's the logical choice. that would be a great question for gaber if he ever comes here.:rolleyes:

Paragon_Leon
08-20-2001, 09:08 AM
Formations in AOK made for some nice intimidating manouvres.
If you chose the 'spread out' formation, your army appeared larger than it was..
I found that i could draw away huge armies from a certain area with just a handful of units that way..

darthfergie
08-20-2001, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by Sherack Nhar
Well, you should all remember what formation the Battle Droids used in TPM during the last confrontation between the Gungans and the Trade Federation... tightly packed groups.

And they got hammered by the Gungan's energy balls too :D
GO GUNGANS!!

That is the one thing I thought was too unrealistic about Episode I. I though they would do some research on that. THey only wanted it to look cool. Whenthose Gungans were shooting those huge bombs into them you could see HUNDRDS literaly HUNDREDS of Battle Droids go down. That formation they used would be the worst possible formation of all. I would have forced an engaement where the Gungans were completely surrounded with no where to go. Then advaced at a rush and not in the huge slowly marching battledroid ranks.

Tie Guy
08-20-2001, 08:10 PM
Yeah, if you lok behind the advancing line you will only see a few droids on the ground, when there should have been hundreds. i hated that.

darthfergie
08-20-2001, 10:42 PM
Have you changed the formations on the game so they look realistic. Or are they head on death marches where bombs would blow the enemy to kindom come???

dvader07
08-21-2001, 12:18 PM
In regards to the formations in ep1, you guys have to realize that the gungans needed to win. So, if they used some of your suggestions that end result probably would have changed. Secondly, I alway got the impression that the droids weren't supposed to be brilliant tacticians, but instead win by shear numbers and firepower. :bdroid2:

darthfergie
08-21-2001, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by dvader07
In regards to the formations in ep1, you guys have to realize that the gungans needed to win. So, if they used some of your suggestions that end result probably would have changed. Secondly, I alway got the impression that the droids weren't supposed to be brilliant tacticians, but instead win by shear numbers and firepower. :bdroid2:

They would have only won by shear stupididty and fire power. And one of the worst parst is that the gungans used the very same formation!!! Stupidity!!! Do you think a race that lives in swamps would ever be that orderly to line up like that? The Gungans could have posted a diversionary army in the field (that was a horrible idea to stand right out in the middle of nowhere!!!) while the real army was swinging in behind the droids and do as much damage to the MTTs, etc. before they deployed. Then make the droids fight on to battlefield fronts. If the Gungans were anywhere close to awake they most likly would have thought of the strategy!!! Droids though...a commander droid (OOM-9) was suposed to be programed with the best strategies to be found!!! He thought that one up from the (pre-1950s for us) ancient days where Jedi attacked each other with steel swords and hand no great rapid fire gun!!! The Droid must have been a history droid previosly!!! That is the one part of the movie that really bugs me.

Tie Guy
08-21-2001, 07:29 PM
Fergie, the droids won, so their strategy obviously worked. If it hadn't work, then you could complain, but it did.

Master Yoda
08-21-2001, 08:51 PM
true, but that doesnt mean that the formation that the droids used isnt STUPID!! there tons of other ways to attack then a straight engagement.

darthfergie
08-21-2001, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Tie Guy
Fergie, the droids won, so their strategy obviously worked. If it hadn't work, then you could complain, but it did.

the droids would have won, yes. But only through supierior numbers and a stupid strategyby the Gungans. Must I say this again. THE GUNGANS AND THE DROIDS USED THE SAME STRATEGY. THEY PILLED UP THEIR MEN ONE AFTER ANOTHER IN MARCHING LINES. NOBODY IS THAT STUPID...well I take that back (Jar Jar)

xwing guy
08-21-2001, 10:03 PM
If yall look at the screen shots it might give us an idea what the formations might be.

darthfergie
08-21-2001, 10:06 PM
NOOOOO!!!!!! STUPID!!!!!! NON-REALISTIC PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

http://www.galacticbattles.com/multimedia/screenshots/12.jpg

http://www.galacticbattles.com/multimedia/screenshots/15.jpg

xwing guy
08-21-2001, 10:19 PM
Who are you calling stupid fergie.:mad:

darthfergie
08-21-2001, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by xwing guy
Who are you calling stupid fergie.:mad:

Who ever it is that went and exepted this as a sound stategy just because it looks cool. Don't worry about me I'll get over it, but that is too stupid for me to think SW would except it.

RESEARCH!!!!

xwing guy
08-21-2001, 10:33 PM
I agree, and I thought the same thing about C&C games to. Except when all your flamethrower infantry are stacked real close togather.:D

Admiral Odin
08-21-2001, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by darthfergie


the droids would have won, yes. But only through supierior numbers and a stupid strategyby the Gungans. Must I say this again. THE GUNGANS AND THE DROIDS USED THE SAME STRATEGY. THEY PILLED UP THEIR MEN ONE AFTER ANOTHER IN MARCHING LINES. NOBODY IS THAT STUPID...well I take that back (Jar Jar)

Well that strategy has been used for centuries, and is called a gentlemens war. Each side lines up and marches into each other.

Now with the droid army using this same tatic is basically the American Civil War. They had weapons that made close lines a dumb idea but still they did it. Small unit combat didn't come around until world war II.

Now the Gungans had really no choice but to form close lines. Look at their protection. First the shields The closeness of the shield generators reinforces the overall shields Hence spearding out would weaken a major defense. Then the hand Shields if the Gungans were spread out more people would need to use those sheilds which means that they have less throwing their energy balls at the droid army.

The Droid army: the best tactic would have been to create a U shape line. Giving the Gungans a way to escape. But Behind the U would be a line of more droids to cut down the fleeing GunGuns. However their tactic wasn't as bad as you make it out to be.

1.as Causalties go they weren't losing many compared to the entire army.

2.Fear seeing a huge army come at you, creates dispar in people giving the droids a pyshoclogical advantage. An enemy with no hope will rather surrender and live then die for nothing.

3.The Trade Federation thought the Gunguns were uncivilized, so that a huge line would terrify them, and make them flee and the driods could pic them off at will.

The formations in AOK were great. Units were easier to manage, The box formation keeped the archers protected while melee units surrond them. The close lines were effective for defense, and moving your units. When I come to combat I change formation and spread them out.

Also those formations were very historically acurate. The melee units would always be infront. Archers Behind them and finally Calvary (being that the calvary charges in after the melee units engaged the enemy, and delvires a quick blow)

If the formations in GB lead only to better unit managment I will love it. I hate seeing a mob of my units go agianst the enemy

What I would love is an option to create your own formations.

Tie Guy
08-21-2001, 10:54 PM
What would you rather have, a big mob of soldiers walking towards the enemy? that would be stupid. The formations are really helpful, they keep your units prioritized, and make sure no one falls behind.

Lord JayVizIon
08-22-2001, 01:19 AM
it'll be interesting to see if there are more formations for this game than there are for AoK. depending on how enemy units attack, it'd be interesting to see defensive and offensive formations, if they separated the two.

Admiral Odin
08-22-2001, 03:00 PM
That would be interesting.

Say you give your units an agreesive stance one set of formations become available but when in a defensive stance a new set.

Master Yoda
08-22-2001, 06:56 PM
I hope they double the amount of formations and give an option to make your own.

Darth_Rommel
08-22-2001, 07:04 PM
Yes... I'd love to make my own formations! They wouldn't have to double the number though... since you can make an infinite number on your own ;)

Darth Maul Jr.
08-22-2001, 07:07 PM
I believe the idea for formations was to move your guys across the map instead of having them bounce all over the place or stray around like they do in Starcraft. When your units are within harms way it is up to the player to put them in a spread formation, break up em or stop em all together...the Artillery's dream is not the formation but stupid players :eek:

Tie Guy
08-22-2001, 07:22 PM
formations may be useful for moving across the map, but what they are for is attacks, drawing the battleline, and approaching the enemy. That's why tehy put more heavily armed troops in front, to prtect your troops in battle. I think that alot of people are overlooking the importance of formations. That was one thing that i liked better in AOK that wasn't in RA2.

Master Yoda
08-22-2001, 07:28 PM
I suppose I could put up with just a few formations if you can build your own. But I still think that they need a lot more than in AOK.

Mitth'raw'nuruodo
08-22-2001, 07:33 PM
Yes. Foramtions can be a deciding factor in battle if used correctly. They not only alot for defensive advantages but offensive advantages as well. A player who puts melee units in front of ranged units will be able to attack more quickly with the melee units because they won't be stuck behind the infantry. Hopefully the formations in GB will be more thoroughly thought out and planned than the formations in AoK. :)

darthfergie
08-23-2001, 07:43 PM
I'm just hoping they'll change the formations with the Technology. It does usualy happen:p

1.as Causalties go they weren't losing many compared to the entire army.

because they were manufacturing them. What if they were men? They would start getting massacred and flee. You would think they would mix a sound strategy with masses to make a HUGE advantage

2.Fear seeing a huge army come at you, creates dispar in people giving the droids a pyshoclogical advantage. An enemy with no hope will rather surrender and live then die for nothing.

That is true... One Question...why didn't they dig in? Aganst a Large attack like that a trench would be a worthy complement to the Hundreds of outnumbered Gungans

3.The Trade Federation thought the Gunguns were uncivilized, so that a huge line would terrify them, and make them flee and the driods could pic them off at will.

How can you pick them off at will when they are in the swamps because they have fleed there? The Gungans are on the home Ground...Also the droids have a tan or off-whit paint to them...in a swamp as green as that they would be easy targets. And there is no proff the Droids even had night vision!!! They were so inexpensive I wouldn't be suprised. The blasters probably cost more than the droids did.

Admiral Odin
08-23-2001, 09:42 PM
It is true that if the TF used that same tactic with men it would have been a massacre but they used droids which are expendable and can be repaired.


Also if the Gunguns ran they couldn't use there large shield generators. Leaving the Droid tanks to go in and massacre them. Also the Gunguns were not in swamps during that battle, but in open fields which they stick out badly and have no cover.

darthfergie
08-23-2001, 09:49 PM
Formations are extremely close to the implementation in AOK, darthfergie (8/21). The Trade Federation can have 800 droids at your control in single-player campaign mode. In standard and multiplayer modes, 200 is the limit for all civs. I hope I cleared that up. We wouldn't have put Navies in the game if we didn't think they were compelling and important to gameplay. Play against the Gungans, and tell me what you think. . . Art is going through a lot of changes on a regular basis. That was an early screenshot of water units. The scale has changed significantly, and the plan is currently in place to have them partially submerged in the water.

NEW INFO!!!!!!!!!! FROM GABER!!!!!!!!

Darth_Rommel
08-23-2001, 10:25 PM
Well... gungan subs arw gonna be hard to beat... I wonder how you will destroy them? :confused:

Admiral Odin
08-23-2001, 11:40 PM
most likely with destroyer class ships.

Lord JayVizIon
08-23-2001, 11:52 PM
hmm, i'm not sure if they're gonna have those, simply b/c destroyer class air ships aren't going to be in this game. i think air units could help out in this matter....

Admiral Odin
08-24-2001, 01:07 AM
When I said ship I meant as Naval Ship. not air ship....

Gamma732
08-24-2001, 01:30 AM
The formations in AOK were pretty good, considering it was the Middle Ages. Hopefully for GB the formations will be made with the greater prevalence of ranged units in mind. Like Odin said, they used outdated tactics in the American Civil War*, and a good part of that war was a massacre of both sides.

As for the subs...wouldn't it be semi-logical to assume that some kind of air unit could detect them and attack them? I recall reading that TIE Bombers can attack underwater buildings.....can they detect them?

*- Associating a futuristic game with the American Civil War....now we're getting a little close to SC territory ;)

Paladin
08-24-2001, 02:03 PM
I hope they have the original AOE2's formations plus brand new ones

Tie Guy
08-24-2001, 03:04 PM
In some other post or review it said that air units, and sea units can attack the subs, but that they are hard to see and are fast i think.

Darth_Rommel
08-24-2001, 03:05 PM
I wonder if aircraft can move into formations? Did could warship an AOK do that? :confused: :confused:

Gamma732
08-24-2001, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Darth_Rommel
I wonder if aircraft can move into formations? Did could warship an AOK do that? :confused: :confused:

Ships couldn't go in formations in regular AOK, but only in the AOK:TC expansion, I believe. I'm not sure how useful air formations would be, but it'd definately look cool and be realistic.

Tie Guy
08-24-2001, 04:05 PM
Yes, it would be cool if they formed up into flights or squadrons. But if you look at the video, those X-wings are definately not flying in formation.

Darth_Rommel
08-24-2001, 04:57 PM
Yes... but that was e3, I'm sure things have changed since then... :)

darthfergie
08-24-2001, 05:57 PM
I think they have changed since then...or what have they been doing over there?

THE STUPIDITY ASTOUNDS ME!!!!
http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/imageFolio/prequels/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Screen_Captures&image=Wdscrn241.jpg&img=220

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/imageFolio/prequels/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Screen_Captures&image=Wdscrn242.jpg&img=240


http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/imageFolio/prequels/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Screen_Captures&image=Wdscrn137.jpg&img=120

Wait a sec...do those gungans look the same to you...NO YD'S SITE PREDICTIONS ARE TRUE!!!!:eek: (if you haven't seen it look at it. It is Halerious)

Tie Guy
08-24-2001, 09:03 PM
They ll look the same b/c they most likely took like 2 or 3 models and used them over and over again. It saves time in production.

darthfergie
08-24-2001, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Tie Guy
They ll look the same b/c they most likely took like 2 or 3 models and used them over and over again. It saves time in production.

I know:)
But have you seen Young David's Site...makes you wonder;)