Nothing I hate more...

[Sith Kaliber]

Than people calling me a cheater and booting me from servers simply because I use the arms model. Why don't they realize that it's not cheating? You'd think that they would know that if they never downloaded a model that was just 2 arms, they wouldn't be able to see a model they never downloaded. I got booted from a server today and made everyone simply leave in another. When are people gunna learn this is not "cheating"? I happen to like the model, if people can't deal with that they don't need to ruin people's fun. I'm not gunna use it anymore simply so these ignoramuses don't boot me from their server anymore. Please, tell all your friends it's not cheating :(

[Emon]

Cheating on a pure server will happen when Mark Hamil accepts his type casting as Luke.

[Caster]

the model is just TWO arms? That's it? No head? Body? Torso? Legs?

Uh... I wouldn't call that cheating, but I'd call that EXTREMELY cheap. That's like the old "Oddball cheapness" from the GoldenEye game.

Using a model like that would unfairly throw off peoples aim and concentrating. I'm sure as hell would be too annoyed to play properly if all I was fighting against was a pair of arms!

-Caster

[Emon]

Originally posted by Caster
the model is just TWO arms? That's it? No head? Body? Torso? Legs?

Uh... I wouldn't call that cheating, but I'd call that EXTREMELY cheap. That's like the old "Oddball cheapness" from the GoldenEye game.

Using a model like that would unfairly throw off peoples aim and concentrating. I'm sure as hell would be too annoyed to play properly if all I was fighting against was a pair of arms!

-Caster

I agree with every word!

[lembo]

yeah, i wouldn't call it cheating, especially being as it comes with the game, but as someone above said, it is pretty cheap. To use a skin which is only 2 arms and whatever weapon you are using puts you at a much greater advantage to everyone else, if only for the simple fact that often, people won't register only 2 arms and a weapon as a player and will think that its a glitch or them seeing something in the textures that isn't actually there (admitadly (sp?), that last one doesn't apply if your holding a lightsabre).

i'm all for using the skin against mates for fun, but on servers where people are trying to have a decent game against other people, i personally wouldn't appreciate someone coming in using a skin which is effectively, the equivilent of half a skin-hack, whether i had the skin on my hard drive or not.

L*mbo...

[Swamp]

i would like to know ... you just happen to like the model, why?? ... i feel it is cheap....really cheap

[Sith Kaliber]

Raven couldn't make it so all you could hit was the arms, silly padawans, the model is still THERE but you can only SEE the arms. I still get hurt the same I did before but now it's easier to hide and prepare for an attack. It's not at all cheap, they can still hit me. Besides, when my saber is drawn it's hard not to see where I am. So if you think about it, it's not limiting my places to get hit, it's limiting places to be seen.

[waxdart]

You just answered your own question, Sith Kaliber -- it makes it easier to hide and prepare for an attack. Easier than it would be for other people who _aren't_ using that model.

That certainly sounds like it constitutes an unfair advantage.

They can still hit you, but the immediate hand-eye coordination thing tells a player that there's less to physically _aim at_. I mean, you're nearly invisible, save for the arms and your saber.

Gut feeling? ...yeah, it's cheap.

Would _you_ want to fight someone with that player model?

[Sith Kaliber]

Complain to Raven for making the model, not at me for using it. I think it would be FUN to fight someone with that model. I always enjoy a challenge.

[obijonkenobi]

If you do not think it is cheap then tell every one in your games HOW TO DO IT TOO and see if you like fighting them then.

Just because you can be hit in your invisible parts does not mean people will shoot there as (call it instinct but) no one would shoot into "thin air" when there is a body part visible. So if you use it knowing peoples logic then you are cheap. Also if someone saw a couple of arms, and a full model in the same area of course they will go for the full body model.

Actually you are so cheap your BANKRUPT!

And why would you like a model with invisibility? It cant look good as you can not see it! So your only real reason for likeing it is that people can not see you as much which means you are a COWARD for not having the guts (or at least the bravery of the average player) to use a model where you can be completly seen.

You really do deserve to have no opposition in your games while you are acting to bankruptly. And I hope you get kicked out of every game while you still choose to play the coward model of invisibility.

[FWB]

Why on earth do people feel the need to use the model anyway? They know bloody well that it is less easier to spot and thus gives them a slight advantage. Anything that looks suspect online will be seen as cheating, and I'm sorry, but rightly so. Don't expect the people you play with to have surfed the net looking at forums and thus be aware of any "extra features".

[Sith Kaliber]

Can't you feel the love on these boards? My my children, stop jumping to conclusions when you don't even know me. If you have ethical problems as to what's cheap and what's not, fine, don't let me know. I never asked for all your opinions on what's cheap and what's not, I simply stated it's not cheating. Why are you all attacking me as if I killed your mothers. Don't you think raven would have left it out if it's too cheap? BTW, calling me bankrupt? Please would you act a bit more mature. This is a game, I don't hound ever person who heals 24/7, or drains for that matter. I also stated I would stop using the model, simply because of simple minded people like you can't handle it.

[FWB]

Please tell us then, why did you post this message? Were you hoping for some verbal support?

[Sith Kaliber]

To tell people it's not cheating? I was kicked because the host thought I was cheating. Emon seems to be the only sane person in this thread besides me. We should probably end this before it turns into a flame war. So anyways it's not cheating, and I stopped using the model due to popular demand.

[Wormstrangler]

cheating.

[obijonkenobi]

Mate it does not matter what YOU the user of the cheat/cheapmodel thinks. It is how the people who have to fight you perceive it. And rightly so if they have to aim extra hard to shoot/slash you then any other player because there is 90% less of you to see then it IS a cheat. It may not be a cheat technically but

One definition of cheating is: (v.i.) a trick used to gain an advantage by underhanded means.

Tell me this... was your model of two arms available in the model-secting section? Or was it something you needed a console command for? Console commands are things not everyone knows - and hardly anyone would know it. You had to use a console command to activiate this model so while technically it isnt a cheat (no outside mods or user-made files) - it still fits under the definition of "cheat".

And you will still disagree with this as you are one of those very sad individuals who can not admit they are wrong and thus will not change and forever be this bloody stuborn.

Just realise that while you are still under the dillusion it is a legitamate model to use, the rest of the JK2 world knows better and sees you for the cheat you are.

[Mafia_Jabba]

cheap...and a half...don't post your garbage if you dont wanna get burned dood

[Desslock]

Originally posted by Sith Kaliber
To tell people it's not cheating? I was kicked because the host thought I was cheating. Emon seems to be the only sane person in this thread besides me. We should probably end this before it turns into a flame war. So anyways it's not cheating, and I stopped using the model due to popular demand.

Its not cheating... "TO YOU". Admins have different views on cheating, and obviously most of them dont share your views. A common view is "using something that wasn't meant to be used" is considered and unfair advantage and/or cheating. In this case, the arms model. Use good judgement when determining whats legit and what isnt going by this rule.

God mode is an unfair advantage. It is also a controllable cheat. The arms model is an unfair advantage. It is an exploit, beyond the control of an admin.

[Retro]

I use it too, but not for the same reasons as others, I dont go around slashing people with it, I use it as an "Avoid people who would kill you while your sabre is retracted looking for a duel" model. It becomes visable during a duel, so I use it as such.

Anyone who DOES use it to go DMing, well should just be shot on sight, at least in my opinion.

[PissedJedi]

Kill em all!!!

[seanMO]

Is the original poster so thick that he doesnt realize that just because you CAN do something, doesnt mean you SHOULD do something.
Hey buddy , I have a penis and im stronger than my girlfriend, so that means I can rape her. Extreme example , but think about.

[S!TH!NAT0R]

Using A model like that and then complaining is just freakin' lame in my opinion. True...it's not cheating but it is super freakin' lame on the users part!:rolleyes: :eek: :atat:
http://home.attbi.com/~sithinator71/SithNunsCensored4.jpg
~~~~~~~~~~~~~YEAH BABY!~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[tam]

ok...i'm falling off my chair laughing here

are u guys so shallow?

the model is not cheating, it is in a directory in the models which u can just call up. secondly, the model is still there, but u can only see the arms, big deal, when he uses his saber u can have enuf eye proof to see him. and people can do the exact same thing with mind trick, except with mind trick ur completely invisible with no arms or saber showing.


thirdly, if u really think its cheap its because u are not exploring ur force powers are u? use force see why dont u, u'll still see the model as if he's using mind trick, woohoo, i saw him. its not really that hard dammit. geez.

[Mafia_Jabba]

wtf stfu moron...in nf...hmmmmm?

it is an advvantage...done...thanks

[Silent Wolf]

I played some guy the other day named s something he was using it, anyways i was top on the server by far so i dont think it gives you "that" much of an advantage, he was a really nice guy anyways so i didnt care. I dont feel its a cheat, its kinda lame but thats life eh...there are ways around it, i just used seeing, twas all good :)

To all you people flaming him for using something built into the game..get a grip. Adaptability is a way of life.

Im a old schooler from the counter-strike community, if you think this is a cheat...you aint seen nothing yet :dozey:

[CaptainNemo]

Sith is your ingame name steel? Becuase IU saw someone with an arms model named steel and that was pretty cheap.

[Arawyn]

Yaah, if i was hosting a game for me and my brother and some bots and i saw you join and you were using the arms model, we'd kick you out.

My reasoning is this: If you have to use programs outside of jedi knight 2, to physically open up a file and make available a model that isn't normally available from the normal multiplayer selection screen, you are cheating, regardless of whether or not you think so. On my server, its my copy of JK2 that i paid money for. Therefore, i can do what i want. Following the same logic, you can make the arms model available for selection because that is what you want. But if you do what you want on my server, and its not what i want, well, you will have to find another server.



So do i care that you think i'm a moron? no. The only thing i care about is that you are trying to ruin what is otherwise an enjoyable past time for me.

[tam]

no his ingame name is bl4de

and wtf, are u so small minded that u flame me too when i tell u ways to get around the model?

geez, real happy forum here. use force see god dammit, thats all u need, its the exact same as mind trick. and when he turns his saber no, hes visible anyways, just invision a body :P

[Mafia_Jabba]

nf? wow, smart dude

[ShortThug]

Why should we have to use Force See to see his whole body huh? It's not fair anyway you look at it, he doesn't have to use Force See to see our whole bodies and what if it was on a server where you can't use Force powers?

[Prox Kolari]

Awwww... poor Sith Kaliber.

"I have a model that was included in the game, but not intended for use in multiplayer, that makes me harder to see. Why is it cheating? People can just go out of their way and BE FORCED TO USE FORCE SIGHT to see me better, while I can free up Force points for something else. But it's not cheating."

You like a challenge, so you make yourself nearly invisible. Real challenging. Let's say there was a model that WAS invisible. I'm sure you'd use the same argument. "But I'm visible! ...when my saber is out."

SITH KALIBER = I HAVE TEH H0N0RZ

Go back to Counterstrike.

[Solo4114]

I see this as cheating basically. Yes, it's in the game. Yes, it's not an actual "hack" per se (like a wallhack or something), but it's cheating nonetheless and frankly, I don't blame any servers for kicking you.

Here's a few observations for ya:

1.) If it ain't in the GUI, and it gives you an advantage, it's cheating. This includes your little game hack with the two arm model, cvar manipulation, etc. If you don't know what cvar manipulation is, don't ask. I'm not getting into it. Essentially it lets you remove shadows from the game and make things so bright that you can see the enemy miles and miles away.

2.) Why do you feel the need to use this model? Are you really so lacking in skill that you can't just play at the same level as the rest of us? Do you need that much of an advantage that you have to essentially use a workaround that hacks the game and can't be blocked? Frankly, I think you deserve to be kicked for tactics like that. That's like playing with a model that's nothing but eyes and a sabre, or just a sabre floating in midair. Sure they can still hit you, but they can't see you. And therefore you have an unfair advantage over them.

3.) It ain't your server pal. If the admin doesn't like it, you get kicked. Plain and simple. Playing on a server is a PRIVILEGE. These people extend their own computers to you and ALLOW you to play on them against other people. Therefore, they have the right to make whatever rules they want. If you don't like it, find another server or use a model that's available in the GUI.

Honestly, people. I wonder how some folks can justify crap like this to themselves...

[Prox Kolari]

BUT U CAN USE FROCE SIGHT TO SEE HIM ITS NOT CHEATING. ITS LIKE HAVNG MIND TRICK ON, EXCEPT ALL THE TIME AND IT DOESNT USE FORCE UP, SO... oh, oops.

[power_ed]

YO, listen up!!

i found another model for kyle, only thing showing i he's wiener..

/model kyle/wiener_default


bottom line is.. i think it's cheap to use that arms only model..

[sushicide]

It's like the spiked models in CS but the oppsite.

Spiked - Replaces other players' models, made easy to spot far away or around corners, can't hit the spiked parts though they're visible. - lame? lame

Arms - Replaces own model, hard to spot from a distance, can hit the invisible parts. - lame? lame

and NO, I DON'T WANT TO WASTE MY FORCE POINTS OR MY FORCE POOL JUST TO SEE HIS FORCE-FREE HALF-ASSED MIND TRICK, AND EVERYONE KNOWS FORCE SEE LASTS AS LONG AS A 70 YEAR OLD MAN'S ERECTION, I DON'T NEED ANOTHER EXTRA BUTTON TO PUSH.

[TheMonkeys]

This is my first post to the forums, so hi :)

I have to say that I personally consider it a cheat. Going by what you say (If its in the game, its fair to use) then you have obviously never played Half-Life or any of its mods online.

When it originally came out, it was obviously quite different from the game it is today, i.e. it has been patched numerous times. The main reasons for these patches were that people were exploiting things in the game which COULD be used by players as they were there, but were being used to give these players an unfair advantage, such as a variables (Lambert, don't worry, it has been disabled) which made players glow, or made things extra bright. There has also been debate about bunnyhopping recently with TFC players. Bunnyhopping basically allowed players to move a very fast speeds by performing the technique, with the effect of unbalancing the game by pretty-much evening the class speeds. That feature was in the game, and used by many, but it does not change the fact that it was a cheat.

If you can tell me that techniques such as those used in Half-Life were legitimate and, therefore, so is your "special model", then you are obviously not quite ready to play any games with other people. Online means that you arent playing just with bots, but it means you are playing with others, and any actions you take affect not just you, but the other 10 or so on the server.

[FWB]

Originally posted by Prox Kolari
BUT U CAN USE FROCE SIGHT TO SEE HIM ITS NOT CHEATING. ITS LIKE HAVNG MIND TRICK ON, EXCEPT ALL THE TIME AND IT DOESNT USE FORCE UP, SO... oh, oops.

That is the worst argument so far. Why on earth should someone be forced to use see to be able to observe him? It being like "having mind trick on, except all the time and it doesn't use force up" is definately cheating. What is the point on even having mind trick as a force if people are going to do this.

The guy was cheating, plain and simple. I wouldn't complain, but for someone to admit to it is incredible. Being on the receiving end of such players is awful. It ruins your gaming experience and there's nothing you can do. I say ban these guys from servers FULL STOP.

[Silent Wolf]

FWB your obviously oblivious to sarcasm.


"The Monkeys"
That was proably the best first post ive ever seen :D

*hands the monkeys an official jedi choclate medallion*

[FWB]

Originally posted by Silent Wolf
FWB your obviously oblivious to sarcasm.

Errr... well then I apologise, but sarcasm isn't the easiest tone to bring across in messages online. Perhaps a "rolling eyes" smilie would have helped it along.

I also thought you were some 12 year kid from the way you used block capitals.

[Prox Kolari]

TAHT WAS TEH POINT, sir; I find it sweetens the mockery. c3=)

[Silent Wolf]

Prox Kolari TAHT WAS TEH POINT, sir; I find it sweetens the mockery.


HAHAHAHAH :D

[FWB]

Originally posted by Prox Kolari
TAHT WAS TEH POINT, sir; I find it sweetens the mockery. c3=)

Yeah, I know. I realised that after you posted. :)

[Amorpheus]

Technically, it's not a cheat but an exploit. Slight difference.

And yeah, don't complain. Guess why it doesn't show up on the character screen? Because it was never intended for use as player model. The reasons are obvious. Some people... :rolleyes:

[S!TH!NAT0R]

Sith is your ingame name steel? Becuase IU saw someone with an arms model named steel and that was pretty cheap.
....I have no clue as to why you would think that's me mang:rolleyes: :eek: -Anyway, my game(s) handle has always been S!TH!NAT0R and always will be.;) :)

[forethought]

Do I think it's cheating? To some degree.

But what it is, my friend, is extremely LAME!

It shows you need an extreme advantage when playing against people, which I can only deduct is from a lack of skill.

Really, where's the challenge when you're fighting against someone who can barely see you? It's not like it's a life or death situation where you absolutely need every friggin advantage, it's a game, which is meant to be fun. However, when you use an unfair advantage against your opponents, the game becomes less fun, and that just isn't cool.

So suck it up, go out and get your ass handed to you for a few weeks, build some skill, and then go wrestle with the big boys, and then can you call yourself a Jedi (or Sith, whatever).

[Essobie]

Easy solution when someone uses such a thing:

Bring down the console and type:

/cg_forcemodels 1



Now everyone looks like you. It actually helps system performance on servers where there's 10 + people with different model/skins.

It also automatically switches opposing teams to the opposite color of the same model. I've been using this since Quake 3: Arena because not only do I like the performance boost, but I hated that in Q3A a lot of models were either smaller than the bounding box, or BIGGER than the bounding box. Not to mention Paul Steed liked to put full roundhouse kicks in the jump animations of the female models for no apparent reason.

But I digress... use the above option. You can even make it easy to switch between on and off if you like seeing most everyone's model. Type in:

/bind x "toggle cg_forcemodels; cg_forcemodels"

Where X is the key you want it bound to. Whenever you hit it, it will change a 0 to a 1, or a 1 to a zero, and then echo the current setting for whatever you have it set to. Very useful stuff.

Essobie

[Aeon]

The way i see it, it's the host's prerogative to kick who he/she wants. Personally, i would kick this guy simply because it would be preventing other people from having as good a time as they could.

Do i think it's cheating? No, not technically. But i think coming on the forums and complaining about being kicked is indicative of a smallness of character that really has no place in a public setting - where all people are trying to do is have a good time.

My personal opinion of it is that it's pretty cheap, regardless of whether people can hit the model or not. Is that necessarily a bad thing? I don't know. I just think this guy's going into the whole MP thing with the wrong attitude.

[MysteriousJedi]

my two cents(or maybe more):
you say that everyone should just use force seeing...or not. thats a lot of force points to waste on one person that uses a model that does close to what mind trick does.
ive played with someone using that model and it wasnt too big of a deal to me because he had his sabre drawn, however i do think its cheap. i can deal with it so if you want to use it go for it and i wouldnt even boot you as an admin. however, you do have an advantage even if a slight one and that should be considered everytime you think you did something cool or you came in first or whatever.
as for the guys who said he was an old schooler from cs...i know exactly what your talking about. this isnt even close to cheating if you use that as a comparison. but this is a new, great game i certainly hope it doesnt get ruined by those cheating fools. my point is we shouldnt tolerate any kind of cheating because maybe jo will some day become cs...

i think i contradicted myself a few times so: in conclusion its not cheating however using it gives you an advantage. we can deal with something as small as this but this may lead to steadily worse things like a completely invisible model etc...(yes i know its in the game but people may think that if they can get away with that they can get away with other things.)
sorry for the length.

[aletoledo]

I've cycled through all the skins in the menu and an arms skin is not there...if you have to manipulate it through the console I wouldn't call it "part of the game" since its not the spirit of the game. if the fact that manipulating the game setting beyond standard is not considered cheating, then I could enable cheats on a server or no_clip and that wouldn't be considered cheating either...since its also part of the game code.

[WooFerPPK]

just change the skin color of the arms model. it works.