So Your Gonna Start A Clan for JK2 eh?

[Joruus]

So you love the game. You want more out of your multiplayer experience. What to do? Start a clan! In the greatest tradition of over 5 years of online fragging of course. But how to do it?

Take it from me, a long time veteran of online gaming. Its not as easy as you think it is.

So here I have, a nice little list of suggestions a serious clan founder should pursue before recruiting for their clan.

Veterans Clan Creation Checklist


Relevant Clan Name


This little detail is what can make a clan, or break one. Needless to say, in Quake 3 Arena; Crack Whore Killas might be relevant, but the chances of that name being effectively transferred to another game genre is pretty slim. Also, with the current trend of large, well run, well lead clans/guilds competing in multi genre FPS games, sometimes...simpler is better. A word, or an acronym, or even a symbol, thats not easily associated with one game is the style here. But if your just going to play JK2 and thats it...a Star Wars based name is fine, if thats what suits you.


Domain Name or Subdomain Name Website


Needless to say, this is almost a requirement. Putting a pathetic little piece of MS Frontpage design on your ISP allotted webspace, i.e. ; http://members.aol.com/screename/joebobdebussy/JK2CLAN!.HTML, just isn't going to work if you want to be taken seriously by potential recruits. So go for www.clanname.com or clanname.domain.com if you can.


Professional or Semi Professional Site Design


Invest some time in learning DHTML, Flash, PHP and ASP. Now while alot of this may sound Greek to you at the moment, most of the professional grade websites out there use them JK2.net works under a PHP or ASP administration system. And if your totally without a clue, you can have a PHP portal easily generated for your clan by using free member sites such as phpnuke.org, magelo.com and dk3.com. But the basic difference here is what people will see when they access your site would you rather they see THIS (http://www.teamabuse.com) or OH GOD HELP ME, THIS (http://airstrike.150m.com/news.html). Spend some time online, looking around at top clan sites, and do what you can to produce as professional site as you can. The difference is people getting the impression that your a professional bunch to watch in the leagues....or a bunch of JeffK wannabees that still think lensflares in Photoshop are elite.


Clan Structure


How is the clan run? Is it just a bunch of people hanging out? Is there a ranking system? Is there a promotional system? Will you be organizing for league play or just general pub crawling? Who will be responsible for training and practice and match coordination? These are all questions you should answer first, before even asking for recruits. Expecting others to be able to provide answers and solutions for YOUR clan is rather unfair...since if they wanted to build a clan...they'd have taken the time to make their own. Have your goals and ideals and internal structure well designed and availible for anyone to see should they want to. Organization is the key to a long lasting, top level clan. Flying blind is not.


Servers, Servers, Servers


Now personally, after over 5 years of online play, I've come to the point that I won't even take a clan seriously that doesn't even have one server. Now thats not exactly fair of course, not everyone has access to high bandwidth lines and extra computers. But essentially, if the clan doesn't have somewhere to match with other clans or practice together uninterrupted...whats the point? Practicing on public servers is unfair to the public players in general, but usually so because the clan teams up on everyone thats not in their clan. So if you can't host a server yourself, you should investigate the possibilities of remote hosting. There are several companies out there offering 24/7 servers for as little as 60 bucks a month Gameservers.com is one, I believe Clanpages.com also offers dedicated servers for competitive prices. Investigate your options, could be your dad could host a server on a box at his business, or theres an extra computer in the house no one uses and your on DSL or better connection wise. A server is highly important, without one...you might as well join a clan that does have one.


GET OFF THE ZONE


Welcome to the 21st Century, and the Quake 3: Team Arena engine. The Zone was a necessity in 1997 when Jedi Knight came out, and its multiplayer options were all peer to peer networking. But gaming has evolved quite a bit while you've been stagnating on that little island of internet gaming. Everything The Zone provides, the rest of the internet provides better. IRC for clan chats (irc.enterthegame.com is recommended), Trillian, AIM, ICQ or MSN Internet Messenger for private messaging. Gamevoice and Roger Wilco for in game communication, and a whole SLEW of game leagues to participate in. The Zone, while it might be the old hunting grounds for Jedi Knight, is pretty much Internet Newbie Town for JK2. Get off it and get into the real competition, you won't regret it.


League Play


Now, once you've gotten your group together...what are you going to do with it? 60 percent of all clans formed do nothing except play the occasional pub server game together...and get in flame wars with other newbie clans on message boards across the internet. "Wars" between clans are probably right up there in the top 5 or 10 dumbest things I've ever heard of, and most of them have occurred on The Zone between JK clans....amazing. There are currently several major game leagues on the Internet, the only one I can definitively guarantee at this time is building a JK2 League is The OGL (http://www.worldogl.com). The OGL is pretty much a cornerstone of internet gaming, especially for Quake 3 Arena engine games (They didn't do much for Tribes as I remember), but theres also the Cyber Athlete Amateur League, The Team Warfare League, and no doubt several other smaller leagues that I haven't heard of. A well organized clan should be able to, within a few weeks of recruiting a full roster, be able to participate in any of them. Investigate for yourself, and you'll find theres quite a bit more to do out there than bad mouth other clans on website forums.


Your Roster


This is important to watch closely, as a clans roster can explode quite quickly if you play actively together where people can see you. Consider the needs of your clans structure when recruiting. Are you playing one game? Do you plan to open divisions for other games? And above all, remember that more is NOT better. HEL Guild (http://www.hel-guild.com) has something over 500 members, all spread out over several different games, and none of them really know each other. And nor do they actively compete in most of the games. They're just there...taking up space and being HEL I suppose. Also, large rosters are a direct result of sloppy recruitment policies. Just because Johnny is in your clan, doesn't exactly mean that his best friend Bill is going to bring anything to the clan but a loud mouth trouble maker. Restrict recruitment privelegdes to a few trusted officers, and have a set standard that recruits should meet to even be considered....age limits, connection speeds, location...that kind of thing. Also, if your just playing JK2, how often are you going to need to field a 40 player roster in any league you play in? Keep these things in mind as you grow your clan, and don't over feed it people.....too many people can lead to players being unhappy because they aren't getting equal play time, whole new clans can form and splinter off from yours, leaving you in a serious manpower crunch when push comes to shove. Let the size of your roster reflect what your clan is doing. If your just out to dominate one game....one league. You don't need more than 12 people. But if your shooting a little higher, wanting your clan to compete in multiple games...you may need more. Think rationally, and I'm sure you'll do fine.


Game Knowledge


Simply put, you should know your stuff. A clan founder/leader doesn't have to be the best player in the clan, but they should know enough about the game...and the games engine to be able to help or teach the people they bring in. Personally, if I get involved with a clan, and it quickly becomes apparent that I know more about the game than the so called "Officers" or "Leaders" do, its not generally something that instills a feeling of confidence in me. So get to know your game, learn the tricks and tweaks that it takes to make being good look -incredible-. And overall, be approachable, be availible and be willing to consider ideas from your membership. A good clan leader recognizes talent and puts it to work. If JoeBob is your friend, and you make him your offensive arms company coordinator, and you recruit some guy that runs rings around JoeBob in knowledge and skills....it may be time to re-evaluate JoeBob's current position. Nothing will grind down a players patience more than having to take orders from someone they feel isn't half as good as them. Don't run your clan like your boss runs the place you work...and you'll find you not only have happier players, but a more efficient clan that is constantly developing new ideas and tactics.


Cultivation of Peripheral Interests


Be sure to encourage and help develop any third party game development within your clan/guild. You will recruit people that do skinning, mapping, modeling and all manner of game related things as a side hobby, positively encourage people to make things within the clan. A good map with a clan members name attached to it can do alot to show the community that your clan is "involved" with the game community. A clan only game model can do alot to foster good morale amongst clan players and the development of a mod for the game can offer an entirely new way to play the game. Overall, don't form your clan and shuffle off to some island in the Pacific and never be heard of. Get involved, even if its only in active game discussions on major forums. Be around, show your there to positively enhance the community, rather than what alot of clans do...which is nothing except for mouth off and start fights with people.

Thats the basics, the rest is up to you. Remember, that clans, and competitive play is what keeps a game alive, an active community, an active competition scene...and a good game can last for years.....even Quake still has clans and leagues playing it, JK2's destiny is in -your- hands, and no one elses. Do it right.

[Jedith]

I'd like to start a small little clan, just for saber dueling, heh.

[Endo'Cun]

I've started my own clan.
-[JA]-
Jedi Assassins

Better Watch Out lol
www.gamingsociety.com/sp
The page Is not done, its under construction.

[Mafia_Jabba]

I'm sorta a zone freak, so how would u recommend converting my clan from zone to IRC?

[Joruus]

Originally posted by Mafia_Jabba
I'm sorta a zone freak, so how would u recommend converting my clan from zone to IRC?

My best recommendation is to get IRC yourself, you can get the trial version (no registration required, just a nag screen) here (www.mirc.com).

Then you'll want to check out some of the major gaming IRC servers. Two of the largest are irc.gamesnet.net and irc.enterthegame.com. I personally prefer ETG, but use whatever server works best for you.

Register a clan channel, this process can take a bit on ETG, as you have to go to the main #ETG chat and request an admin to register it for you. Whereas I believe Gamesnet has an automated registration bot which can register a channel on the server.

Registering the channel is important because it will ensure the channel has security, and that you can automatically give yourself and other clan members operator priveledges on entering the chat, and a whole slew of other important operator level functions.

But once you get on an IRC server, check out clan channels, and game related channels on them. Ask the admins/operators of those channels questions if you don't understand how they're changing the chat topic (a good way to pass information clan wise) or moderating the room...or whatever.

Once you've got a good handle on how to get around IRC yourself, register your channel, and put the information about how to connect to the IRC server, where to get IRC, and what channel on your clans website. Then, slowly start disassociating your clan with whats going on on The Zone, start competing on the OGL JK2 ladder which is in the works as we speak, get involved with other JK2 clans on it.

Eventually, people will forget about The Zone, because they'll be having just as much fun, without half the hassle, or the ads for that matter.

[[sico]]

ahem, WRONG.


in order to have a good clan your website must be somthing big and cool and roxish like:
http://members.aol.com/geocities/user43563/ten33t/457744/users.fortunecity.com/#66678%7866/user12456/index.html

the name of the clan has to be a word never said before by any living creature such as [r333tf56rox1uj00soxlolROFL46l33t]

plus irc is for newbs just go into a server and spam "CLAN r333tf56rox1uj00soxlolROFL46l33t RECRUITING ONLY NEWBS DONT JOIN"

and if some one kills you you must repeatedly abuse them till they leave the server. you can only die from lag even tho your ping is -60.

thats a clan you want.

[Mafia_Jabba]

thanks dude

-to the other guy
i can't believe u have a pic of obi one under your name

[[sico]]

thanks joruus.

-to the other guy

shut the **** f*** **** mother **** **en ***** sh*** f*** up

[Joruus]

bump...important info...bump....not just because I wrote it....bump

[S!TH!NAT0R]

ROFLMAO @ sico!:p
-I have had nothing but bad experiences and headaches with clans for any games. Maybe I just hav'nt been in a good organized clan?:rolleyes: -Either they were too serious or too much of fudge-offs, or just plain unorganized. Only one game which I got into hardcore bigtime and that's UT. Tried the Clan deal with that too and was just bad experiences. JK][ is the only other game that i'll be into Hardcore on a regular basis, just rocks too much ass!:D
-Anyway, there's my brief rant on gaming Clans:rolleyes:

[Mafia_Jabba]

ok rant boy

[Darth Draugmahl]

Eh, I have been in the leader of a clan for quite a few years and while some of that information is valid, much of it stinks of people taking the little tv too seriously.

This IS in fact for fun. The best advice anyone can get when forming a clan is remember that it's for fun and have fun. The other really major point is to pick players for your clan who have similar personalities or are at least moderately like minded. Introducing someone into your clan envorinment because they're the best player you've ever seen only to find out that they think and feel very differently about gaming, clans, matches, or whatever from everyone else can send break your clan up or at least make it no fun until you've removed the problem.

The idea that someone would have to learn asp and secure a server to be able to enjoy being in a clan is a bit over the top.

[Joruus]

Darth I'm talking about clans that compete.

Not little clans that do nothing.

Theres a huge difference.

Thanks for your rather pointless addition to my post, you may have been running a clan "for years" but you sure has hell don't seem to know much about it.

[S!TH!NAT0R]

ok rant boy
-I am not Just A Boy!:eek: :p

[Razage]

How do you recommend that leaders deal with inter-clan conflicts (Which usually result in, said spinoff clans.)???

[Joruus]

Razage

Spin off clans are very detrimental to a clans development and generally occur when one of your more respected players becomes disgruntled.

Needless to say in any group dynamic, there are many smaller social groups that occur.

The BEST way to keep spin off clans and splinters from occuring is to stay ACTIVE. That means keep everyone busy. Practice twice a week, scrim once a week, and have a league match once a week. Keep everyone focused on winning and enjoying the game together, and they will generally stick together. Make sure your acknowledging the players, praise them on their accomplishments and additions to the clan dynamic...whatever it is.

Also, don't disrespect clan members decisions, or skills or suggestions. Keep the exchange of ideas open and approachable and you won't find people muttering things about "tyrant never listens to anyone..blah blah blah".

And the NUMBER ONE way to ensure a split does not occur is to not recruit anyone that your clan doesn't get along with well.

Clan try outs are varied, and alot of clans do it in alot of different ways, but the BEST way to find out if someones going to be a fit for your clan is to have them play with the clan in a few public games. Watch their attitudes, watch how they respond to suggestions or criticisms.

A bad attitude can split a clan down the middle, especially if hes a good player that the leadership is indulging his or her attitude to get the skills that come with it. This can often cause serious rifts between your leadership, the player (or players) in question, and the rest of your clan.

And all it takes from there is one semi-enterprising person with enough friends in the clan to say "To hell with this ****, lets go make our own clan". And 8 or 10 guys go with him because "Hey, no offense, but hes my friend."

Also, harsh discipline can also cause splits as well. Jump someones case a little to hard publically, kick someone well liked out of the clan with little or no explanation, and you could find most of your clan hanging out with them in few days wearing a completely new tag.

Lets not forget that people are human, if you piss them off, or hurt them, they will do what they can to lash back out at you. Splinter clans often form directly as a result of a person you've mishandled looking to get back at you by destroying or stealing something you've spent time building.

And above all, BE INVOLVED. Your the leader, the founder. You HAVE to be around. And if you can't due to real life concerns, you have to be willing to take a back seat role when you come back. Be sure to have strong officers in place, people that can keep things running should you happen to drop off the face of the internet (hey, it happens), and be ready to stay in the background when you come back, because if your gone long enough....and theres still something to come back to, well its not really "yours" any more. Its whoevers been busting their asses to keep things running.

And the simplest way to avoid splinters? Stay small and effective. Large rosters leave alot of people sitting around doing nothing. Best you can field in a league match is 8 guys. If you've got a 50 player roster. Thats 42 guys that aren't gonna see play time every week. (Especially if your clan has the usual sliding scale of skill, your not gonna field your third stringers in important match ups, that would be like sending out scab players to win the Super Bowl). Small and effective is the key.

Now to deal with one if its already occurred? Compromise, compromise, compromise. Do everything you can within reason to see that the players in conflict with whatever has caused the split understand that you are willing to hear other ideas, willing to consider different ways of addressing the issue.

If its a play time issue, you can stop the splinter in its tracks by grabbing the ring leader, and officially putting them in charge of a secondary division for the same game. Essentially keeping the "new clan" within your clan still, but giving them free reign to set up their own practices and league matches and climb the ladder on their own. Everyone gets play time in that situation, and it can be a good way to ensure your second and third stringers are getting the competition level practice they need to become better competition players.

If its a disciplinary or attitude issue, the ONLY way you can handle these issues is one to one. Don't ball someone out in IRC chat in the middle of a clan meeting. Talk to them privately, explain what the issue is and what you'd like them to do about it. If they have no willingness to meet you halfway, then they probably aren't worth the trouble they're causing and you should let them go. And remember, if you've got 10 guys that are fairly good that you've played with for 6 months, and they all hate ONE guy that you recruited yesterday that could single handedly carry you to the top of the leagues.....focus on getting the one to understand the concerns of the rest...or get rid of him/her. The skills of one player are not worth the disintegration of months of work and practice.

And in the end, be prepared to say "Thanks for your time, and I'll see you on the leagues." Sometimes people will not compromise. And you just have to accept that. Clans rise, come to their plateau of skill and performance, and eventually die in some cases. But the fun part about it is, you can always start another clan...unless you've just made a complete ass of yourself in the process and no one wants to work with you.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Emon]

Endo`Cun, you'll want to think up a new name. There's like 5 billion clans with that name or a similar one sharing the same acronym, JA.

[Cracken]

I'm thinking of starting a clan with a rigid honor code, a small corps of players, and a sort of freelance attitude.

I'm wondering if a webpage is a necessity for a clan with a low membership, and if a chatroom or message board is sufficient?

[Joruus]

Cracken

A low membership clan that is fairly tight can get along without a webpage at all. As long as people are regularly in contact with each other, or meet daily in IRC, you can do it.

The thing to remember about webpages is as much as they are resources of information for your membership, they're also resources about your clan to people that aren't in it.

When I'm in a league, and actively matching other clans in it, I like to check out their webpages, see what kind of group they are, look over their roster and their sites content to get an impression of them.

So a website isn't totally necessary for a small, tight clan, but its almost essential as a tool for self promotion within a community. Anyone that enjoys good competition level clans generally checks their webpages to see what they've been doing. For example, in RTCW I generally keep tabs on Darkside, Team Abuse, Empire and several others. Why? Because they compete in the major leagues and they do it well. Its nice to have somewhere to go to get the full skinny on what matches they've got coming up, or any match demos they might have put out. Or get a feeling of what they really think of clan XYZ or whatever.

Clans aren't isolated from a community, they're a major part of it. And a webpage for your clan is generally the window the rest of the community will see you through.

[Essobie]

This is single handedly the best breakdown of the necessities of a competitive clan, and it’s even tailored for Jedi Knight 2. Both the original post, and the post about splintered clans.

If anyone is really interested in starting a clan up and hasn’t done it before, this guide is a must have. Great work.

Essobie

p.s. There was ONE other alternative for JK1... that was Kali... and it's too bad that it wasn't the more popular place to play because Kali during its golden era was just as good (if not better) for clan chat than IRC is now. Oh well... those days are gone. :)

[Joruus]

Muchas gracias Essobie.

Coming from you, its worth about 20 compliments.

Heh.

[Krayt Tion]

That is pretty sound advice that could be applied almost anywhere, Joruus, yet I disagree with the comment another mentioned regarding how well-tailored this advice is for JKII. While that is great general clan advice, there is an angle here which you haven't covered which has always been the beautiful, beating heart of Dark Forces clandom.

I can only speak for myself and my experiences after Jedi Knight was released, but the magic ingredient in Jedi Knight clans has always been... role playing.

The classic struggle between good and evil, the light and dark sides of the force respectively, translated well into the clan format for Jedi Knight. All light-side clans formed on the values of justice and honor, dedicated to cleanse the net of darkie clans everywhere and protect the innocent, while Dark Siders in turn united to spread their brand of evil and chaos. Back stories were created, related bios were crafted, and dramatic battles where fought only between clans of conflicting virtues. I remember browsing clan sites back in the day and being delighted that the majority of them featured such engaging role playing elements.

Indeed, Pat Lipo of Raven has specifically mentioned (http://www.jediknightii.net/column005.shtml) that they choose to feature Light/Dark sides in multiplayer for JO (as opposed to an completely open MotS-style system) because of such things it brought to the table:

Two factions, the subtle, defensive light side and the direct, offensive dark side, make for interesting dynamics that most games do not possess. The goal of our choices was to promote gameplay above all else. The logic in itself is not nearly as important, any more than discussions as to how lightsabers can block shots, or whether using the Force is actually telekinesis, etc. The point was to make a fun game that was not simply Quake with lightsabers.

The spirit of Star Wars lives on in the multiplayer of this game, from the casual matches right on up through competitive clans. To this day I've never seen an FPS clan community that is so infused and rich with role playing elements. To be a good clan in my eyes, you've got to carry this tradition proud and do more than be well run, have a good website, and pwn people.

It's because of this that I'd rather browse a clan website with one frame, text links, a simple graphic or two and a lot of role of rp elements than a slick one with bells and whistles but so little... heart.

Let me reinterate that I'm not debating the need for good clan structure and related things you've mentioned; that has been very helpful. But since the topic is about starting a clan for JK2, I needed to provide the role playing perspective (which wasn't emphasized very much here) as being crucial for a good community JK2 clan. All imo of course.

[Joruus]

I agree wholeheartedly that role playing is a facet of JK2 and was for JK1 as well.

Whether its a requirement to have a good, enjoyable clan that plays JK2, I'm not so sure.

While roleplay is all well and good (I have no problems with it at all) I've often felt that clans that pick one side of the Star Wars universe and play on it are limiting themselves severely.

Take a CTF example. If your running an entire lightside team, great, but look at the force powers the darkside has to offer in teamplay...and how well they'd accent a mixed team...and I feel that for good competition play, to ignore the obvious would be rather bullheaded. A couple guys playing defense with Team Energize and Team Healing going that know their way around the guns and their sabers would be a great defensive combonation.

But I do agree that roleplay drives alot of the JK based clans, and thats a fun part of the experience. And there will be no end of ladders and leagues supporting nearly all aspects of it, Sabers Only leagues, CTF Force/CTF no force, Team DM leagues with force and without. There will be more than enough competition to fit everyones gamestyle. So worrying over roleplay being a critical factor is somewhat needless.

Clans that wish to roleplay will be able to. Clans that wish to hardcore compete with be able to, and all manner of clans in between. The necessity of roleplay to building a great JK2 clan is rather peripheral to the whole deal.

[Quietus]

Originally posted by Joruus
The BEST way to keep spin off clans and splinters from occuring is to stay ACTIVE. That means keep everyone busy. Practice twice a week, scrim once a week, and have a league match once a week. Keep everyone focused on winning and enjoying the game together, and they will generally stick together. Make sure your acknowledging the players, praise them on their accomplishments and additions to the clan dynamic...whatever it is.

Somebody needs to take a look at reality. The fact is, gaming isn't too close to becoming a professional sport and a lot of players are early in their life meaning they have school, work, and a social life. Gaming is not our lives, it's a hobby. I know I definately don't have time in my life for all that stuff you listed above, even to be a professional clan. And like Draugmahl said, gaming is fun. The guys in my clan are in it for a good time. Sure matches are cool things to do, but it isn't life and we don't get bent out of shape about it. I guarantee that no one here is that dedicated to gaming professionally as you've stated above. Unless you're goal in life is to go to the CPL and place first, then you can do it. But everyone else is going to have some fun and give it their best shot.

[Joruus]

Yes Quietus, you speak for everyone.

Which is why you and your buddy Draugmahl are the only two with anything negative to say about the matter.

Its not a matter of gaming being a professional sport. Its a matter of if you want to create the best clan you can, you have to approach it in a quasi professional fashion.

And you'll notice, if you bother reading the beginning of the first post I succinctly state that these are suggestions that any SERIOUS clan founder should take into consideration before recruiting.

By serious clan I am talking about clans that play for league competition. Not clans that all wear the same tag and just mess around in a game because its fun to do.

If you think that no one in the online gaming world is that serious. I suggest you take a look at www.teamabuse.com as just one example of the kinds of clans that are out there gaming on a quasi professional level without being in the CPL.

I'm sorry guys, but what your trying to say is that nothing I've stated here really applies to clans, well I'm afraid it does, its in practice in every big name, top of the leagues clan out there.

Just because you or "your" clan doesn't do things this way doesn't make it any less relevant.

[Razage]

*Curls up and goes to sleep by the flames, they keep me warm.*

[Droniac]

For any Clanleaders that are reading this:

There are several new ladders (CTF/TDM/1 on 1) on www.clanbase.com
For clans afcourse :)


Have Fun....


(BTW: ClanBase is mainly european, so i don't think u'd get much matches as a American clan on ClanBase).

[Krayt Tion]

Originally posted by Joruus
Whether its a requirement to have a good, enjoyable clan that plays JK2, I'm not so sure.

It's a requirement for me for a good, enjoyable clan that plays JK2, I was never saying that it must be for anyone else.

...So worrying over roleplay being a critical factor is somewhat needless.

Again... needless to you personally, not to me.

Clans that wish to roleplay will be able to. Clans that wish to hardcore compete with be able to, and all manner of clans in between. The necessity of roleplay to building a great JK2 clan is rather peripheral to the whole deal.

Peripheral to you, I'm assuming. As I've indicated before, to me it is quite important.

I'm trying to illustrate that the matter of role playing in JK2 clans is a highly subjective one. I don't see how the issue of whether role playing is necessity for a good JK2 clan can be 'proven' one way or the other.

You mentioned "While roleplay is all well and good (I have no problems with it at all) I've often felt that clans that pick one side of the Star Wars universe and play on it are limiting themselves severely."

True enough, if you just want to win, you are probably slightly better off with a better-balanced team of lighties and darkies. As a one-sided rp clan you might not be able to reach the upper-most echelon of clans but if you are role playing this is usually not the paramount concern anyways. Your point here is very much moot.

While one-sided rp clans might be limited in effective two-sided force combinations in competition (though not to the degree which you profess), they certainly are not more limited in their creativity, expressed in their role playing for all to see and enjoy.

This, from where I sit, will bring more flavor to the JK2 community than any clan solely dedicated to kicking people's asses in a professional, well-organized manner. Those are a dime a dozen and can be found en masse in any FPS in increasing numbers these days.

My ideal JK2 clan would be one that can hold its own as a one-side clan in mp (and there will be some of these), yet is still dedicated to doing it while acting out in the Star Wars Universe. That plus some of the other good organizational measures you have suggested.

Looking to form a JK2 clan? To those who are reading, I would add:

Don't be afraid to consider role playing if you've got this nagging feeling that makes you want to do it. There will be plenty of groups out there that share your interest in this. Don't be intimidated by what others who care nothing for this have already got set up. You can have your cake and eat it too.

[VeKToR]

Krayt - Needless nitpicking. You could have just added a friendly 'Roleplaying is fun!' and left it at that.

Roleplaying - by my definition - is using an existing storyline and a game to a) write stories or b) roleplay in game. I popularized roleplaying on the Zone, and it had at least 3 rooms playing Drazen, Nightclub or some other map that had lots of features and whatnot.

Joruus - Thanks for the breakdown.

[Hubris]

Very nice post, for those of you talking about RPG clans and other such stuff, the post is obviously directed at clans intended to compete on ladders, leagues etc. So, uh, while your information about roleplaying clans is, ehm, interesting, it's really inpertinent.

I'd also recommend the the TWL (http://www.teamwarfare.com/default.asp) over any of the current ladders cropping up. The only other truly viable contender (For US players anyway, not sure about euros and pacific rim players) is the OGL, which has a really bad history of not listening to their playerbase and making some of the most retarded decisions in the history of competition. :p

The TWL comparably has already had a few matches, and Polaris and a number of other TWL folks regularly read and post here, and on their own forums. They also have a good 30-40 teams on each of their team ladders, and almost 200 folks on each of their duel ladders. Definitely the best ladder right now.

(And I'm not affiliated with the TWL personally, just the more people competing on a ladder, the better it is, so hopefully a team or two migrates there as a result of this post. :p)

Edit: Whoop, bad link.

[Krayt Tion]

I disagree about my post being nit picky. I was responding to the comment about his clan advice being well-tailored for JK2. To quote the first sentence of my first response: "... yet I disagree with the comment another mentioned regarding how well-tailored this advice is for JKII." I was respresenting an angle not covered in his approach. I'm hoping some people find that helpful.

Also, he begun his post on the premise "So you love the game. You want more out of your multiplayer experience. What to do?"

In my opinion, not only do you form a clan but you form a role playing clan in the tradition of Jedi Knight. That is something that could not only net you more from you multiplayer experience but from your clan experience as well.

If you don't value my contribution, well, there's nothing I can do about that, I guess.

[Joruus]

Well as I said theres nothing wrong with a bit of roleplay if thats what your clan is going to do.

But you have to keep in mind that roleplay as a requirement can turn as many people off from a clan as it can get people interested in it.

There are plenty of ways to go about getting roleplay started within a clan. But if theres just one or two guys in it that are all "I am Lord Lozischnozzle the Third, bow before my jedi greatness" the rest of them, guys that just play games with an internet handle are gonna spend alot of time "looking" at them funny.

Because of the games immense popularity, and its build in one of the best multiplayer engines availible, your going to get alot of different folk playing JK2, people that weren't really bothering with the original Jedi Knight (though alot of us did...if somewhat vaguely) because of how unwieldly it was as compared to Quake 2 or Quake even for competition play.

With the advent of the new game, your going to get clans over from Quake 3 Arena, UT, Counterstrike...and all manner of different game genres....places where roleplay isn't even really considered.

So while I believe that roleplay can add an interesting facet to a JK2 clan, I'm not so sure that its a requirement to build and run a good clan for the game. Lord Lozischnozzle the Third might be able to tell a good story or two about his background on Tattooine and all, but then again, PowerSkunk420 might be a dab hand with the Imperial Repeater.

Honestly though Krayt, people barely even roleplay in Everquest, and thats a roleplaying game. JK2 is an FPS game. So I'm more concerning myself with the business of building an FPS clan, more than a roleplaying guild.

[NeonSamurai]

I must say your guide or checklist is a good one for those wishing to start up a semi serious to compeditive clan.

Couple of thoughs... Take em or leave em :)

Although i do agree with your general statement on the zone (i hate it myself in general) it can serve a few valuable uses such as setting up for fun pick up games between clans with the member base you have around. Its good pratice for your members and can help them bond and fight better together. Granted you can do it with the in game browser but i have found it a bit simpler to just scan the list of names looking for people with the same tag with similar numbers on as us and see if they want to play or not on the zone.

Myself for deciding on clan size minimum size for league/ladder play i usualy go with twice the required number for the particular ladder as a minimum. Generaly because not everyone can play at the same time/day for matches, plus real life creaps up. Also it will give you full teams for both sides on practices which is nessary if you arnt alied with another clan that you can train/practice with (forget training against bots). To keep everyone playing and happy since most leagues/ladders tend to do multiple games in a match to determine a victor (2-3 usualy) you can alternate players between games (usualy if there isnt a set day each week matches are played, you can expect your full team of say 8 and 1-3 alternates). Maximum number varries depending on how much your members play and their availability and how many leagues/ladders you play on.

As for a clan game server, i whole heartedly agree. Another suggestion if you cant get/afford one yourself you might be able to borow server time from an ally if you have one or talk a server admin into borowing it during certain times. What ever you do dont try to take over a pub server and force yourselves all onto one side. All you will acomplish is you will piss off the majority of players on the server, miss possibly recruiting opertunities, and give your clan a bad name (cant count the number of times ive seen this happen). It is however alright if a bunch of you are on and wana play on the server just try to keep it even as lets face it,on any pub server a well trained and practiced clan on one side will totaly demolish the public side every time, it wont be fun (unless your clan is one of those childish ones who takes pleasure in pissing others off and making their game expirence miserable) and you realy wont get much real practice as the other side is far to disorganized.

[madrebel]

haha this makes clans sound incredibly boring.

dont listen to jorus...you dont need a r33t website. Of the clans ive been in i think ive visted our page maybe twice. who cares about cool flash intros on some lame clan site.

clans are about teams. its pointless to have a clan for dueling...i mean wtf you never get to play with your clan mates in ladder play unless its against one of your own. Clans = team games like CTF. Thats the only time clans are fun IMO.

above all else only let people you have fun with into your clans.

p.s. my background is long with clans. Ive been in a number 1 tribes clan ive even been the leader of some clans. Its all about fun. The minute your friends stop having fun is when things go down hill.

[The Truthful Liar]

Read all of the above ---^ :eek:
_________________________

I must admit this has been the most interesting thread concerning clans in general, for jk2, rpg types and etc...

One small tiny issue though...

Now personally, after over 5 years of online play, I've come to the point that I won't even take a clan seriously that doesn't even have one server. Now thats not exactly fair of course, not everyone has access to high bandwidth lines and extra computers. But essentially, if the clan doesn't have somewhere to match with other clans or practice together uninterrupted...whats the point? Practicing on public servers is unfair to the public players in general, but usually so because the clan teams up on everyone thats not in their clan. So if you can't host a server yourself, you should investigate the possibilities of remote hosting. There are several companies out there offering 24/7 servers for as little as 60 bucks a month Gameservers.com is one, I believe Clanpages.com also offers dedicated servers for competitive prices. Investigate your options, could be your dad could host a server on a box at his business, or theres an extra computer in the house no one uses and your on DSL or better connection wise. A server is highly important, without one...you might as well join a clan that does have one.

oh yeah... it will ONLY be $60 a month to have servers for your clan :rolleyes: lets just adress the fact that most clans are not based off money only. If funds are needed you are saying that a clan doesn't have a chance *hangs head low* you didn't consider some clans might not have the same equal opportunities to aquire people to pay such rates than other clans might.


Needless to say, this is almost a requirement. Putting a pathetic little piece of MS Frontpage design on your ISP allotted webspace, i.e. ; http://members.aol.com/screename/joebobdebussy/JK2CLAN!.HTML, just isn't going to work if you want to be taken seriously by potential recruits. So go for www.clanname.com or clanname.domain.com if you can.

I totally agree, yet again - to keep up a .com site that also needs a flow of cash reserves. I of course agree something like 'http://members.aol.com/screename/joebobdebussy/JK2CLAN!.HTML' is terrible, you could always get something like www.myclan.tk etc... yet the ultimate descision is to get a .com.


Besides the suggestion of leaving a clan that doesn't have server. What would you advise for a clan having a .com with a proper design and has a medium level of functionality/organization with about 25 members that get along fine??

Also, one last note - you mentioned that most proffesional sites are constructed using .PHP or .ASP - I'm a web'master'*cough* myself and I've been really eager to start using that kind of web-system instead of having my site built up with .htm(l) files :P

Thanks for this really intuitive thread while applying highly required information based on 'clans and the proper way of keeping them up'.

Cheers ;)

[|UA|Ashenhand]

Originally posted by madrebel
haha this makes clans sound incredibly boring.

dont listen to jorus...you dont need a r33t website. Of the clans ive been in i think ive visted our page maybe twice. who cares about cool flash intros on some lame clan site.



BTW, I'm Joruus.

Needless to say the evidence is overwhelmingly against your statement. And like I told someone else in this thread, a website is a resource for communication with your clan, and the portal through which the rest of the community sees your clan.

Flash intros, asp/php management...none of its necessary. But a website that doesn't look like it will create an ocular migraine from looking at it is.

And your apparently one of those clan members I generally end up hating. The guy that never checks the website and never knows whats going on.
_______________________________________________
| UA | Ashenhand
Founder, Universal Alliance (http://jk2ua.topcities.com)

[Mormegil]

Well, we have a professional website, but many of our members don't visit very often. IRC is mainly where we're at. We have a large number of members due to being involved in a variety of games. It works out well for scrims now that we're focusing on JK2. Even though a minority will be in the competitive team, it's nice to have weekend warriors (like myself ;) ) around.


www.teamfusion.org


ORG because we're an organization, not a business. Plus, it's cheaper.

[madrebel]

Originally posted by |UA|Ashenhand


BTW, I'm Joruus.

Needless to say the evidence is overwhelmingly against your statement. And like I told someone else in this thread, a website is a resource for communication with your clan, and the portal through which the rest of the community sees your clan.

Flash intros, asp/php management...none of its necessary. But a website that doesn't look like it will create an ocular migraine from looking at it is.

And your apparently one of those clan members I generally end up hating. The guy that never checks the website and never knows whats going on.
_______________________________________________
| UA | Ashenhand
Founder, Universal Alliance (http://jk2ua.topcities.com) you would kiss my ass to be in your clan. i bring the pain every game.

team fusion sux :)

[Joruus]

Originally posted by madrebel
you would kiss my ass to be in your clan. i bring the pain every game.

team fusion sux :)

Doubtful Madrebel

You've got a ****ty attitude, and you sound like a one shot wonder that would probably bail on a clan if they lost a match. A non-teamplaying ass that would abandon defending his flag/objective in a team based game to go on offense so he could up his frag count, and then ***** at his teammates for not defending when it was his job in the first place.

I know your type Madrebel, I've been doing this for a very long time.

I don't have to kiss anyones ass to be in my clan. I take time and find good players with good positive attitudes that are looking to work with the group and excel as team.

Your definitely lacking in the good positive attitude area, I'm gonna give you the temporary benefit of the doubt on whether your a good player or not until I've run into you on a public server.

Which is probably more than you do for most people. You sound like the kind of guy that thinks everyone in the game sucks but you and you could only die to lag, even though you've got 20 ping.

Please wander off and find other posts to flame. Your a troll. And this'll be the last time I feed you.

[Octavius]

My little addition. When setting up a heirarchy, make sure there are rewards for each level of membership. I have seen guilds split or have spinoffs break away, all because said spinoff leaders wanted "more power". This happens a lot in games like Everquest or RPG style games. Be careful who you allow into your upper crust officer slots. The ones that you trust are often the ones to go with, but that does not mean they won't stab you in the back either. I know, I have had it happen.

So my two cents is, be extremely careful on who you entrust your guild/clan to. One trip out of town on vacation leaving johnny in charge can often lead to half your guild being gone when you get back....

[Joruus]

Agreed here Octavius.

Its definitely a very close line to walk on who you trust your clan to.

I had a similiar situation happen to be for a clan I was running for UT/Q3A CTF.

Ran things for 6 months, handled the website did all the recruiting, got all the league administration handled and clan administration.

I recruited a guy that seemed pretty solid and level headed, and he offerred to put up a pair of OC3 connected servers for us for UT and Q3A, so I said yes, and things looked pretty good.

About a month after recruiting him and keeping an eye on him, I promoted him to officer status, entrusted him with all the administrative passwords for everything we were doing, the FTP information for the website and the whole she-bang. Essentially because I wanted the clan to be able to run well, no matter who was availible to do administration.

At the end of the first month he was an officer, I took my summer vacation, put him in charge, and headed to Alaska for 2 months. Everyone in the clan knew I had plans of that nature. And all was cool. "Cya when ya get back dude" is what I got from him.

Well 2 months later. I get back, and my static IP is banned from the IRC chat, none of my admin passwords work, I can't get on either server and the forums won't allow me to post on the website. I call the web host, and it turns out the billing information for the website has been changed, they won't tell me who to, but I knew, I asked how they authorized the change...and they tell me the email they recieved had the administrative password for the domain. Sigh.

I finally get this guy on ICQ a few days later and ask him WTF is going on and I get this back.

"You bailed dude, I had to keep things running, its not your clan anymore."

Talk about getting screwed over. Most of the membership just stuck in the clan, it was doing great, they had friends there, they were sorry I got screwed, but it wasn't gonna make them drop the clan.

So yes, be very careful who you share administrative level privelegdes with, because there are people out there that will rob you for no more than a name these days.

[AtomicRoach]

Joruus,

Very, very cool thread. I also run a CS clan, which we are adding a JK section to. I agree with pretty much everything you said.

The one question I have, which I think can be applied to any game, is how do you find good quality players?

Most of our members came from regulars on our server. We knew them before they joined the clan.... in tryouts, we would test them no only skill wise, but teamwork wise. I'm very happy with the players we've chosen to join our clan. (FWIW, we've been around for just over a year)

But now it seems like we are having problems finding new players. (And no, we are not some huge clan - maybe 12-15 members with about 8 of them being very active members) Since we like to watch people before asking them to join, it's hard to just pick another public server and play on that for weeks just looking for someone.


Any suggestions?


Roach

[Joruus]

The JK2 community right now is still somewhat soft and still forming up. So right now, your talented players are gonna be few and far between.

I run the Universal Alliance JK2 server and I'd say for about every competition level player I see on it, I see about 25 - 30 players with sub par game skills or experience.

Now that doesn't mean those sub par players are going to suck forever, far from it, most of them get better, some of them very quickly after getting used to the games demands.

My best suggestion for nailing down a good recruit is to buddylist their name on Gamespy or The Eye, even the internal server browser allows you to search the returned servers for a player name. Once you've found someone thats displayed the skills and attitude your looking for, grab a few of your boys and hit the server they're on.

Your best enticement you can offer is showing the potential recruit what you and your mates are capable of. A few games, and he'll notice that the guys with |XYZ| tag in front of their names are pretty damn solid in the game.

Then...just engage them in a bit of in game chat. "Hey Player, good game man, your pretty good." if hes seen you and your boys in action somewhat, and likes what he's seen, a quick invitation to hook up with you guys in IRC should be all it takes to get him or her in to talk from there.

Good play, and good attitude will be your strongest assets when looking for people to recruit. If they respect your skills, and think your a good guy, they'll be more than amenable to discussing possible recruitment with you.

Crappy attitudes, flaming other players, or playing unfairly (over balancing teams and refusing to switch sides), will turn them off quicker than dogsnot would turn off a 16 year old nymphomaniac. So present your best side. Because while there are tons and tons of players....you've really got to sell yourself, as much as solicit them.

[madrebel]

Originally posted by Joruus


Doubtful Madrebel

You've got a ****ty attitude, and you sound like a one shot wonder that would probably bail on a clan if they lost a match. A non-teamplaying ass that would abandon defending his flag/objective in a team based game to go on offense so he could up his frag count, and then ***** at his teammates for not defending when it was his job in the first place.

I know your type Madrebel, I've been doing this for a very long time.

I don't have to kiss anyones ass to be in my clan. I take time and find good players with good positive attitudes that are looking to work with the group and excel as team.

Your definitely lacking in the good positive attitude area, I'm gonna give you the temporary benefit of the doubt on whether your a good player or not until I've run into you on a public server.

Which is probably more than you do for most people. You sound like the kind of guy that thinks everyone in the game sucks but you and you could only die to lag, even though you've got 20 ping.

Please wander off and find other posts to flame. Your a troll. And this'll be the last time I feed you. lol its you're not your.

funny you are. games like jk2 are best played 1v1. if you want to play ctf go play tribes2 base++.

[StormHammer]

madrebel and Joruus...you obviously have a difference of opinion...but you should each try to respect each other's point of view. No one is really right or wrong, here...if someone just wants to have fun...that's fine, and you shouldn't look down on them. If someone wants to enter into a more professional league and garner more respect...that's fine as well, and good luck with your endeavours. However, you should both recognise that sniping at each other on a public forum isn't doing either of you any favours - though my marsh-mallows are toasting up nicely, thanks. :)

As I've said many times before...everyone's entitled to state their own opinion...as long as you can respect those of others, and state your own case in a coherent and civilised manner.

If anyone here has irreconcilable differences, I recommend you find a server somewhere and go head-to-head...but please don't turn these forums into a clan battleground. Okay? :cool:

Lot's of great stuff in this thread so far. If I ever manage to get a decent connection to the net, I might even look into joining a clan, and there's a lot of useful information in here. I guess I'm more like Kyle at the moment, though, a free-wandering spirit out for personal gain. :)

[Joruus]

Thanks Storm, I'll just quit feeding him.

Hes more than welcome to do things his way if it suits him.

That goes for the rest of you as well.

This guide has over 5 years of online competition level experience in it.

But that doesn't make it a complete fit for everyone.

Remember, the best way to run a clan is your way. Assimilating some knowledge from others is always helpful.