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View Full Version : Jedi Knight 2: The Ending....erm...ok....that's it? *SPOILERS*


Kenji
04-08-2002, 02:17 AM
Is it just me, or did that ending leave you feeling just a tad.....unsatified?

Emon
04-08-2002, 02:58 AM
Sort of. I think they should have made it so Desann isn't completly dead, gets back up then (in the cutscene) Kyle does the Obi-Wan back stab right through his gut and kills him. Then walks away without looking back.

enDless_Deliriu
04-08-2002, 03:08 AM
I'm not spoiler tagging this (unless this coutns) as the thread is about the end of the game, so if you're reading, it's your own fault if something gets ruined.


I thought the ending was a little weak but not really. It's very open as to what happens to the characters. Kyle keeps his lightsaber, which is good. He and Jan go off on vacation, which is good as well. The academy is saved and all that crap which is also good.

Basically, it seems weak, but it basically has everything resolved at the same time, so in a way it's a very starwars ending. This battle is done, but you don't know if the war is over for the characters (it usually isn't ;) )

As for the cinematic ending with Desann getting up and Kyle killing him with a back thrust, that wouldn't have added much to it, and at least for me it would've made Desann look stupid (as I killed him with a back thrust ;) )

It would've been kinda cool if after the fight Kyle succeeded in turning Desann to the light side of the force though, or if maybe Tavion showed up and talked Desann into doing the right thing or whatever. (Maybe, Desann, who believes the strong are always right, would then see things as Kyle and Luke do as they are strong, so to him they must be right, which means he must be wrong..and I think I just killed my own argument with the logic loop ;) )

Jerol Seren
04-08-2002, 03:12 AM
the ending was left open, it was a bit short tho, normally I'd get all up in arms over something like that...but..I think in JKII's case..it was more fun just GETTING there..:) I didn't want to get to the end, I wanted to keep going...

btw..one thing that bugged me...where's Luke during all this?? Was he just busy elsewhere? you think he would have deffinetly been there to stop desann. heh

enDless_Deliriu
04-08-2002, 03:16 AM
I think Luke was busy fighting the reborn and shadow troopers off with his students and didn't see where Desann went to. (Remember, Kyle ran in just as Desann pushed the bleachers back and hopped down, and Desann had two shadow troopers as body guards).

Then, after that, while I'm sure Luke sensed where Desann had went, he also sensed Kyle going after him, and had faith that Kyle would succeed so he let him be to confront the demon that almost turned him to the dark side again.

In a way, Desann was almost to Kyle what that cave on Dagobah was to Luke, or the Massassi temple (the one that wasn't academy) was to Kyp. Showing him the dangers of the darkside and such. Just in a less figurative..(or more figurative) way. I dunno again, I'm just tired and typing random words. Cat, kitten, noodle, Johnny. Gah

Jerol Seren
04-08-2002, 03:19 AM
"In a way, Desann was almost to Kyle what that cave on Dagobah was to Luke, or the Massassi temple (the one that wasn't academy) was to Kyp. Showing him the dangers of the darkside and such. Just in a less figurative..(or more figurative)"


heyy..good read into that. Makes sense.

Moleculor
04-08-2002, 06:43 AM
That's exactly what Desann was.

Spoilers ahead:

The ending lacked a LOT. Like an explination for what Desann was DOING down there? He was obviously after SOMETHING... but what? Sure, the beam of light. What was it doing there? What was it? Why were there traps guarding it? Did Luke know about it?

And yeah, the ending went from really tense (fighting Desann) to happy and joyus WAAAAYYY too fast. There wasn't enough 'gloating' or saying 'Yay! You beat Desann!" going on. And all there was to acknowledge the victory was "The two mercenaries who saved the Jedi Academy". That line, and nothin' else. It's like it wasn't a big thing to anyone!

Wes Janson SMR
04-08-2002, 06:55 AM
Saving an accademy of Jedi would normally be seen as something out of the ordinary....Unless of course, you happend to be Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Leia Organa-Solo, Lando Calrissian, Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn, Jan Oars, Wedge Antilles, Wes Janson, or any other main Star Wars character you can think of.

There's been so many wild arms in the Galaxy, things like this just seems like it's all in a day's work.

;-)

Besides... Once you've blown up two Death Stars, everything else in the Galaxy just seem like easy pickings.

Digital_Ronin
04-08-2002, 07:04 AM
*PHEW*

So I'm not alone on this one. :)
Always felt quite the same. I mean JK1 and MotS both had fulminant endings - JK1 with a lot of emotion (I still see Kyle chopping that rock into his fathers statue.. *snif*) and MotS with a TOTALLY new twist : DON'T fight the big bad "end boss", but surrender to him to save him. Great!

Now on to JO... hmmm - meet Desann, slice Desann, Desann dead, all happy, Kyle go on vacation. *erh*... yes, well... maybe it's just me but Desann isn't much of a fascinating character. Might be connected to the fact that he isn't a HUMAN enemy too.
I mean fighting an oversized lizard is neat in itself, but one as a DARK JEDI?

Not sure about that, it simply wasn't... subtle(?) enough. Desann looks like the 'designated bad guy'. Nothing particularly fascinating about him... he's ugly and he's mean, but that's pretty much it.

But what I think is even more important: NO ONE DIED. I mean, is there just ONE player out there who believed that Jan was dead after that first cutscene? Get serious... If she had really died then the camera had SHOWN it. Close up, with a smiling Tavion behind to enrage the player. but this way? I always knew that she was still alive, so I somewhat lacked the rage I felt back in JK1...

Remember that f*&§% dark jedi who says

"You're weak like your father... I remember it! _I_ had the honor of taking his head and THRUSTING it on a SPIKE for all to see!!!!!! wuahahaha"

*Kyles lightsaber strikes him down*

Hell, I even hate the bad guy NOW as I write this, years later. This was simply a great dramatic moment. But in JO? Not quite...

Digital_Ronin

Wes Janson SMR
04-08-2002, 07:22 AM
They should have showed Tavion out in the open with Jan, Kyle getting a nice, clean view. By all rights, Tavion should have planted her Lightsaber right through Jan. But here's the trick, Tavion stabs Jan in a non-vital area of her body - but the mere fact that Tav stabs Jan, Jan passes out from shock, we - the player - could buy into the illusion of Jan's death. It would have made the game much more emotional. If we really thought Jan was dead, we'd be right there with Kyle, dying for some pay-back. But then, we'd be elated to hear that Jan might still be alive after all (after we defeat Tavion).

I mean, Bacta plays a big part in Star Wars. They could have healed Jan right up, then do their interrigations.

But I agree. The way they originally set Jan up, I almost baught into it, but I really knew that she lived.

Evan Nash
04-08-2002, 08:28 AM
The ending had LOTS of loose ends for a reason.

An expansion.
They'll probably do it, and don't be surprised if Desaan returns. If not, perhaps Tavian or someone else.

I'd rather be Luke in a game to be honest over Kyle. Luke is one of my favorite characters.

Tarquin
04-08-2002, 08:43 AM
If Desaan returns he going to have to be headless, yep you guessed it I took his head off when I killed him.

I personaly think it will be Tavian as she was still alive at the end of the game.

Nephand
04-08-2002, 09:09 AM
I imagine Tavion would be back with some new 'pimp daddy' dark jedi :)

lukepearce
04-08-2002, 10:25 AM
It might have been a bit tacky but I was just waiting for one of desanns fingers to twitch on that last shot once kyle had walked away!! ;)

Digital_Ronin
04-08-2002, 12:19 PM
You too? :D
The hand was just so PLAIN_IN_SIGHT that I was already tempted to say "oh come on snap out of it lizard, get up and let's continue".

The TRUE surprise was that it DIDN'T move :D :D :D

Digital_Ronin

Forceflow
04-08-2002, 12:46 PM
Yeah, the ending certainly wasn't the best there is. Story wise it wasn't too fascinating. I mean the game was great, but the story wasn't the most inventive thing there is. I mean that's what Star Wars always made great. And outstanding story, think about JK, it didn't had the best graphics possible at that time, but the story was just awesome! Same coutns for MotS with the best end-oss fight ever! (Name ONE game were the only way to win is to surrender!)
Overall the ending was just too clean, nobody good got killed, that's not Star Wars typical. A New Hope: Alderaan and Biggs, Empire Strikes Back, nobody got killed, but hell, that was a depressing ending nevertheless, Luke lost his hand, Han frozen, the rebellion in retreat, Return of the Jedi: Annakin Skywalker dies and Episode one, Qui-Gon dies. (And that at least Episode III will have a VERY depressing ending is a sure thing) Dark Forces, while not being depressing the ending scene with Vader meantioning that Kyle is strong in the force let us ALL hope for 'Jedi Knight' and the two endings for Jedi Knight were just awesome! Choose to be the bad guy and still win! And Of course MotS with the fantastic ending. I really expected a bit more from JO.

But well, it's still a damn good game! I guess you just can't have everyting ;)

manickat
04-08-2002, 01:00 PM
I imagine an expansion where the player has to fight wave after wave of Desann, Tavion, and Reborn clones from the result of some Remnant experiment ... oh wait, I did that last night. Nevermind.

StormHammer
04-08-2002, 01:23 PM
Well, in terms of the last battle...it was similar to the battle with Jerec in JK, I thought, except without the puzzle element. Just a straightforward down-and-dirty fight. At least there was a proper cut scene at the end tying up all the loose ends - and leaving the story open for possibly another installment. (I hope.)

As for Desann's motives? I think he just had a grudge against Skywalker and wanted to tear down his Academy, then get juiced up and take on Skywalker himself. It's like the Vader/Obi-Wan scenario...they had unfinished business, and they had to resolve it. The same with Desann/Luke. What is it with these Student/Master relationships, anyway? :eyeraise:

The only problem was that Luke left Cairn base after Kyle. Remember, Kyle is aboard the Doomgiver, talking to Luke who is still on Cairn base. Luke has borrowed the Raven's Claw, which was possibly not as fast as the Doomgiver. I don't think Luke had reached the Jedi Academy when it was attacked...unless I'm missing something major here... So Kyle had to save the day.

Of course, they could have put in the old cliché, with the twitchy fingers...or a pan out to show a nest with an egg sitting in it (the twist being that Desann is of a race that can self-procreate)...but they would have been just that...old clichés. It's hard to find an ending that hasn't been done before in most movies, anyway.

As you say...it is the journey to reach the end that captures the imagination.

I too was not convinced that Jan died...specifically for the reason that her death was not shown. The real twist would have been that she had died...which would have been a brave move to kill off a popular character.

I had no problem with Desann being a lizard, though. What I would have preferred, however, was to see some of the Reborn, and some of the Jedi students, as other races. In the Jedi Academy trilogy, for example, some of the students are from other races. A Twi'lek here, a Mon Cal there, would have added even greater depth and variety. :)

Domenic
04-08-2002, 01:23 PM
Was I the only one who actually thought Jan was dead?

Dead_Hood
04-08-2002, 01:53 PM
Yes. Anyone who actually thought Jan was dead is far too gullible. I knew right away that they wouldn't kill her character off. After all, she plays an important role in Kyle Katarn's life, and if they want to continue the story, they'll need to keep her around.

Lnt. Kechtt
04-08-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by Jerol Seren
the ending was left open, it was a bit short tho, normally I'd get all up in arms over something like that...but..I think in JKII's case..it was more fun just GETTING there..:) I didn't want to get to the end, I wanted to keep going...


Agreed. Most heartily. "The joy is in the journey, not the destination." I'm content with the ending, it didn't stir any great emotional threads in me, but the game did that. I didn't play it for the ending. I played it for the game. Oh, with Jan's death. I do believe now that they could have shown her getting her head removed or cut in half or some very fatal wounds, cause think about it. One of the powers of the force is making people see what's not there. That's what popped into my head when Kyle is talking to Tavion and he says, "I watched her die!" Just think of Corran Horn in "I, JEDI." There's my two bits.

[TKK]Sgt._Manag
04-08-2002, 04:59 PM
I think everything was great for the money I paid. All the standard things lacking in a standard PC game but, if I were to add anything it would be all that has been mentioned. It could've been longer, I mean it only took like a week or so to beat. Cut scenes could've been better. With the technology we have now they couldn't have made the people look more normal, almost no facial expressions and the mouths moved as if they could be speaking anything. bluh bluh bluh. The ending should have been more dramatic. It felt so casual....

Luke:So ya guys did great, thanks! Catch ya later!
Kyle: Later
Jan: Late

I know they do this kinda thing all the time (whatever) but, I just spend a bunch of money, time, and energy, gimme something.

Though with all that has been said about what we wanted that we didnt get...could we have expected much more for a $40 or $50 game. From what we wanted LucasArts would've charged us like $100. :ewok:

[TKK]Sgt._Manager

PS C'mooooonnnnnn patch! :deathii:

Wes Janson SMR
04-08-2002, 05:07 PM
Like I said, saving the Galaxy isn't a big deal anymore. ;-)

And don't worry, Domenic. I almost thought she was really dead. ;-)

GalacticBulge
04-08-2002, 05:12 PM
Not to take anything away from JKII, but it was an "emotional flatliner" (as mentioned above). I like to feel some connection - some purpose - to my gaming experience, and while the main direction of the plot was fantastic, the emotional connection between the player and Kyle was missing. It sounds goofy seeing as how we're talking about a game, but the aforementioned "connection" just enraptures you and pulls you into the world the game has created.

Still, JKII is absolutely outstanding. In my mind, the SP saber battles more than make up for the lack of an "emotional connection", hehe.

dougp
04-08-2002, 05:29 PM
{grabs his camera man and runs up with his microphone}

dougp: Excuse me! Excuse me Mr. Katarn!

Kyle: Waddya need?

dougp: Now that you've killed Desann, what are you going to do?

Kyle: We're going to Disney Galaxy!

{watches as Kyle kisses Jan}


hmmm yah, I hated the ending. Quite boring if you ask me, but oh well, leaves room for another game. BTW, Tavion is a hottie ;)

Wes Janson SMR
04-08-2002, 05:31 PM
One thing we got from this game: It took the death of Jan before Kyle realized that he loved her.

Heh. And here, I thought they were already bangin' on the side for a while now. My bad. '-)

GalacticBulge
04-08-2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Wes Janson SMR
One thing we got from this game: It took the death of Jan before Kyle realized that he loved her.

Heh. And here, I thought they were already bangin' on the side for a while now. My bad. '-)
ROFL

I guess it's official now.

Oh, and I wonder what will become of Tavion (officially)? Will Luke show any signs of aging in the next game? Will he change his clothes or get a new haircut? Will that big bruise on Tavion's face finally heal? Will Tavion finally realize that a bird is stuck in her hair? Will Jan and Kyle produce offspring (JK2.5:Half-Pint)?

All of these answers remain to be seen.

(sorry, I'm tired)

Vanor
04-08-2002, 05:41 PM
Heh I sorta bought into the Jan's dead idea as well, but after it happend I didn't give it much thought honestly. Was to busy trying to get my stupid lightsaber :)

I actualy thought the end was rather jedi-like. Look at the end of RotJ or TPM, you don't see luke/obi wan jumping for joy or celibrating, this type of emotonal out bursts aren't something Jedi do.

Take the end of RotJ for example... Luke had saved his fathers soul, helped kill the emperor, destroy the 2nd deathstar and bring a end to the Empire.

But at the end, he's just sorta standing there talking to his friends but not really jumping for joy or anything. The end of JK2 was much the same way IMO.

CaptainPOE
04-08-2002, 05:41 PM
I think they left the ending open for either an expansion pack or a whole new sequel. Even though it seemed as Tavion was going to drop her Dark ways she might have picked them up when she heard that Kyle killed Dessaan and now she might want revenge. Kinda like Kyle wanted revenge when he thought they killed Jan. But most games now days are left pretty open, that way if the game is successful they have enough space to come in and do a sequel and get more money from it :)

JaG|Kaiser
04-08-2002, 05:44 PM
The SP was fun, but I wished it was longer. The ending felt like I just won the game at a Pizza Hut. I was waiting for a "Thanks For Playing! Enjoy Your Pizza!" screen to pop up.

I'll be honest, the possibility of spawning NPCs in-game could make the game extremely fun.

GalacticBulge
04-08-2002, 05:48 PM
You can spawn NPC's in SP.

in the console type:

npc spawn nameofnpchere (reborn, shadowtrooper, atst, luke, desann, etc.)

Over_burn_jedi
04-08-2002, 05:57 PM
Yup, that "Jan is dead because of Tavion" thing nearly got to me too, but as soon as no body sowed up I began to think she was still alive...

Katarn is such as wuss not getting to realise his felings towards Jan, and it took her "death" too...

Wussie :D LOL!!!!!!

Silent_Thunder
04-08-2002, 06:01 PM
As much as I'd like to say it was a great ending; I must agree with the majority of my fellow posters here: The ending was quite disapointing.

But perhaps not for the same reasons everyone else stated. In my view; the thing that the ending was lacking was consistency with the rest of the game. From the start the game has an eery and mysterious feel to it. Prisoners are being experimented on, and strange green crystals are being extracted from mines. The Valley of the Jedi has been invaded, and as Luke says, referring to the shadow troopers "there may be dozens of them, but there may be thousands of them".

What ever happened to all of that? I killed Dessan and now all of the shadow troopers are being mopped of by real jedi that easily? So that's it? What was Luke so worried about then? Also, the whole atmosphere of the game shifts from mystery to sudden happiness in the last cutsene. I was hoping for something alittle more dramatic to tie in all of the ends of the story. The ending was anticlimatic in the truest sense of the word.

Sure it does leave many things open for an expansion, but who cares? So Dessan may still be alive. We get to fight him again in an expansion. IS that cool? Not really. The ending was left open for the sake of leaving it open. NOT for the sake of leaving it open for an expansion. An expansion will NOT include ANY of the loose threads from the previous game I am sure. If they were to; it would be more out of a lack of imagination then a "wouldn't it be sooo cool to find out Dessan is still alive, and fight him all over agian!?".

As far as the story as a whole is, I'd like to disagree with an above poster who said that the whole story was weak. The ending yes. But the first half, no. The first half was very, very cool, and was building up for a likewise cool ending. However, it was never delivered.

I believe the reason for the poor ending, and the poor last 3 levels is a result of a lack in development time. Many of the textures in the final cutscene, as well as the final levels are not of the same quality as the rest of the game. Look at the detail around the walls of the tunnel that Kyle walks out of (when we see that stormtrooper in the back ground getting up) and tell me if that doesn't look like JK1 graphics? Look at how Kyle walks in place right after he defeats Dessan. Don't get me wrong, those things do not take away from the cutscene, but I believe are signs indicating that the developers had little time to make the final cutscene.

As it stands; The game as a whole, both the levels and the cutscenes, starts out strong, with a mysterious eeiry feel to it, but slowly degenerates to what we see in the last few levels of the game, and the last cutscene. Which is inconsistant with the rest of the game.

Wes Janson SMR
04-08-2002, 06:41 PM
You save the day and get the girl. Ain't that enough?

squid
04-08-2002, 08:00 PM
I killed Dessan and now all of the shadow troopers are being mopped of by real jedi that easily? So that's it? What was Luke so worried about then?

Actually only a handful of shadow troopers were being wiped up because thousands of them never left the ship before Rouge Squadron destroyed it. It was those thousands that Luke was worrying about.

Krayt Tion
04-08-2002, 08:21 PM
I would also call the ending anti-climactic.

The climax of the game for me was the fight with Galak Fyyar. The Doomgiver is descending upon new republic targets. You've got Rogue Squadron threatening to blow the vessel you're on at any moment. The man who is likely to lead the worst operations against the New Republic (not Desann) has challenged you to one-on-one combat.

By the time I got to Desann, I was itching to take him down, but it was more personal than anything else. Galak and future invasion forces with him were tost, the reborn at the Academy were toast, and if I didn't finish off Desann it is likely Luke and the rest of the academy could have easily.

Still, there was something... soothing about the way it all played out. I saved the galaxy vs. Fyyar and then had my vengance vs. Desann.

------- -------- -------- -------- -------- ---------

Oh, and the most thrilling ending in the Dark Forces series goes to the original game, easily. When Mohc popped up I nearly crapped my pants. I had been piss-scared of Dark Troopers that entire game, and when the biggest, baddest one I had ever seen immerged from the depths and started taunting me... yikes. The battle wasn't half bad either.

Wes Janson SMR
04-08-2002, 08:38 PM
Yeah...Yeah! That's a good discription! You save the Galaxy, and then you settle a personal score. Usually, the hero does both at the same time. But not here... Hmm.. Never thought of it that way before.

I agree with you on Dark Forces, though. That guy was one mean-lookin' son of a sith. Plus, there was something very satisfying showing Boba Fett a thing or two. ;-)

ShadowCell
04-08-2002, 08:41 PM
I had no problem with Desann being a lizard, though. What I would have preferred, however, was to see some of the Reborn, and some of the Jedi students, as other races. In the Jedi Academy trilogy, for example, some of the students are from other races. A Twi'lek here, a Mon Cal there, would have added even greater depth and variety.

Actually, the way I saw it, Desann just started popping officers and stormtroopers into the Valley of the Jedi. They were all human (and that's probably good, think of a Force-wielding protocol droid), so when they went in human, they came out human. Now, the Jedi students as other races would have been interesting, but they only appeared at the final few levels. As Silent_Thunder said, the developers probably ran out of time and couldn't afford to make Jedi students of other races.

Hmmm...an expansion pack, or altogether sequel...what would it be about? I said this in another thread somewhere: maybe we could send Kyle to some long-lost repository of Sith power or something and send our poor hero on a trip through time. He can battle such Dark-Side foes as Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, all his old Force-wielding foes, the Emperor himself, Darth Maul (JK2 saber battles were MADE for Darth Maul), and finally, after fighting all the Dark-Side foes of the past, a showdown with the Dark Lord of the Sith himself! (Darth Vader for all you "slow" people)

Either that or we could take over Tavion for a while.

I do agree that the ending was VERY anticlimactic. When Desann went down, I almost yelled "Get up you Dark Side dinosaur, quit being melodramatic and fight". Then he didn't get up. Kyle jumps off, and I yell "NOOOO! IT CAN'T BE OVER...oh well, maybe the ending will be good." Unfortunately, it wasn't. Silent_Thunder is right again: here you have the mysteries of the Remnant's expermients, crystal mining on Artus Prime, and, like Luke said, "There could be dozens...but there could be thousands."

Also, fighting Galak Fyyar reminded me of Dark Forces, when I battled Rom Mohc. Of course, I just pumped plasma into him and down he went. *thud*

I also agree with how falling for Jan being dead was hard to do. When Tavion drew her saber I thought she was actually gonna kill Jan, but then it switched back to Kyle and you hear the lightsaber and Jan grunt or whatever. For all we know, Tavion could have run her saber through the wall, then shoved Jan over and clapped a hand over her mouth. Had they shown Jan getting cut down like a stormtrooper, it would have instilled the same fury as when Maw was taunting you in Jedi Knight.

Maw: Kill me!...you can't, can you? You're weak, like you're father. I remember it...Jerec, he gave him a sweet, slow DEATH! A death worthy of a COWARD! I had the HONOR of taking his head and THRUSTING IT ON A SPIKE for all to see, hehehahahaha!

*bzzzt, and no more Maw*

In Jedi Knight, I was kinda pissed when Maw said that. I also loved the scene of the Light Side, when Yun dies to protect Kyle from Sariss, and his dying words are this:

Sariss: Why?

Yun: He is a Jedi...he deserves a battle...*thud*

The scene of Kyle slaying Jerec was also one of my favorites, simply because of the emotion it showed:

Jerec: *falls to his knees* I am defenseless. Strike me down, and the power of the Dark Side will be yours. *grins maliciously* I'm sure you haven't forgotten that I was the one who murdered your father...

Kyle: No, I haven't. *raises Jerec's lightsaber with the Force and tosses it to him*

Jerec: *looks down pissed-off-ly at his saber, then picks it up and charges* AAARRRRGH!

Kyle: *kills Jerec*

Finally, the final scene of Kyle making a statue of Qu Rahn and his father was also very striking.

But Jedi Outcast lacked that kind of emtoional involvement. If they had shown Tavion killing Jan, then the player, i.e. YOU, would feel the same rage and need for revenge that Kyle felt. Oh well, maybe the sequel I'm sure we'll have will include the best of both worlds: emotional involvement of the player, combined with stunning graphics of the player, worlds, and lightsaber.

And for the record, the CGI sequence of Rogue Squadron attacking the Doomgiver was wicked cool. And the swamps of Yavin 4 were great: your lightsaber even sparks and hisses when raindrops hit it!

hughJ
04-08-2002, 09:04 PM
"One thing we got from this game: It took the death of Jan before Kyle realized that he loved her."

i think the story and emotion would have been far deeper had Jan actually been killed.. from there you could have taken the Light/Dark side issues a little further... and perhaps the ending battle with Desann would have meant more... I mean, originally, Kyle's motives for doing all that he did was to get back at Desann and get revenge for Jan's murder... by the time you get to Desann, his major reason for wanting to fight him at all is gone.. it's no longer really personal.. and as someone pointed out, the battle has really already been won everywhere else.. with Kyle so clearly pointing out that Desann was essentially on his own...

I think it would have been far more of an interesting fight, had Tavion lied to Kyle about Jan still being alive.. or perhaps Desann keeps Jan captive until the end, and then murders her infront of Kyle directly prior to the final fight scene...

...or... Desann merely strikes a fatal blow to Jan, and after defeating Dassan, Kyle perhaps only has the chance to tell her how he feels just as she dies...

just about anything would have made for a more meaningful ending..

Eddie4000
04-08-2002, 09:37 PM
I didn't like the ending but I can see the rationale behind it, due to the fluidic flow of the game it would have been hard to have an ending in the same style it would've just led to the next part of the adventure. In addition, Luke might have been flying with Rouge Squadron, The amount of time it took you to contact them he could have hooked up with them in his trusty X-Wing. But heres another fact, Desann wasn't throwing Imperials into the Force Stream, Luke says "his followers" and judging from the fanatical behaviour they weren't Troopers. Plus it wouldn't have explained the memory wipe they seemed to get. I think that Desann had to die, and I did feel an emotional bond not about the death of Jan which was obviously fake from the beginning but from the way I personally felt like a moron when Kyle led them to the Valley of the Jedi. I also thought the ending held mystery, what decision is Kyle gonna make as to his Jediage, What was that Force Stream thing, seemed reminiscent of the valley to me, but how did Desann know it was there. I felt the ending was pure Star Wars. Look at ESB, RotJ and TPM all had the ending of the world is saved, back to everyday life. Jedi don't celebrate and while not satisfactory the ending was one of only a few logical un cliched pathways the game could take

Moleculor
04-08-2002, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Wes Janson SMR
I agree with you on Dark Forces, though. That guy was one mean-lookin' son of a sith. Plus, there was something very satisfying showing Boba Fett a thing or two. ;-)

Oh NO! I just realized that that game TOTALLY ruined Boba Fett's reputaton for ALWAYS getting his bounty! Noooo!

Kenji
04-08-2002, 10:44 PM
I hadn't expected so many responses so soon. I posted this just last night. Anyway, I'm glad that so many of you agreed with me.

I noticed that some of you guys said that there shouldn't have been too much celebration by the jedi, I won't argue that point jedis shouldn't be jumping for joy. However, I would have been greatful for some kind celebration, after all, if the jedi were eliminated and the shadow troopers were allowed to live, the galaxy would've fell under a tyranny much greater than that of the previous empire. IMHO. That shouldn't be under played.

Perhaps some sort of survey of the damage would've curbed my appetite for closure. If maybe they showed fields filled with bodies strewn about, or shown some of the clean up at the academy, or something that didn't just go from FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE to *shrugs* I'm goin' to da beach.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVED the game, the story was fun and well scripted, especially that line between Kyle and Fryyar. I had to pause the game I was laughing so hard. I just wished the end had a little more. Ofcourse, I'll play it again, but I will dread the end.

Multiplayer is shaping up to be very fun as well. I can't wait for the MODs, I would love a Jedi enhanced version of CS or DoD, with a little more team oriented play. If any of you are working on a JK2 MOD let me know, here on the thread, not by email - I have too much of that as it stands.

SaberPro
04-08-2002, 11:05 PM
Yes, the ending is really boring.

I was thinking more of a foreshadow of JK3...something like Tavion invades Tatooine or something...or a new Death Star III :D

Covax
04-09-2002, 12:32 AM
Was anyone else expecting Jan to have been tunred into a Reborn? I just kept waitng for the 'and Jan slashes the light-saber across Kyles back but he blocks it' moment.

It would have made an interesting comparison: Kyle willing to turn to the Dark Side to avange Jan who's been corrupted.... he has to save her to save himself to save her.... yadda yadda.

MysteriousJedi
04-09-2002, 12:39 AM
i have to say i wasnt dissapointed. the game was fun and kept me interested. its a long game and now i wish it was longer. the only thing i would change about it would be more bosses. im not talking about reborn or shadow troopers, im talking about tavion/desann equivelants. those 2 were fun to fight. i never played dark forces 2 but i get the feeling that it might be a slightly better story line. i would consider buying it if someone recommended it to me? (my old copy got scratched up, countless multiplayer battles...) i just want to know if dark forces 2 is worth the sub par graphics for the storyline.

enDless_Deliriu
04-09-2002, 01:09 AM
Covax! I didn't mention it because I thought I was the only one.

I thought it would've been really cool if Desann had managed to break Jan, and then to further torment Kyle had turned her into a dark jedi.

Hmm..maybe I'll see if I can write a fanfic or something about it :)

hughJ
04-09-2002, 01:58 AM
"its a long game"

dunno.. I'd probably consider this a short-medium lengthed game... i don't really think time spent being directionless on a map constitutes game length.. just poor level planning.. wandering about a level to find some quater-sized switch that you missed winds up making up the bulk of time spent :)

in short: a directional guided walk-through of the game shouldn't (but in this case, it does) really offer THAT much of a cut in length... in RPGs the fun part may be the exploring.. but that's due to the depth and open-endedness of the world you're playing in.. in a linear FPS, "exploring" = "lost and frustrated" ;)

after playing Deus Ex, I don't think I'll ever think of another FPS as a "long" game again..

if one thing could be said though for JK2, is that it ended when I expected it to.. unlike RtCW which seemed to end about 5-10 hours too early...

JAtM Trev
04-09-2002, 03:17 AM
They should have just plain showed it. 9 year without the force, Kyle would have been succeptible to a Jedi Mind trick or two. Tavion's line "What did you really see?" It would make perfect sense, though a little corny to explain.

"Desann used the Jedi Mind Trick on you. If this was multiplayer and you invested stars in Force Seeing you would have known. Don't kill me, I'm not brave enough to die..."

Digital_Ronin
04-09-2002, 10:35 AM
Maw: Kill me!...you can't, can you? You're weak, like you're father. I remember it...Jerec, he gave him a sweet, slow DEATH! A death worthy of a COWARD! I had the HONOR of taking his head and THRUSTING IT ON A SPIKE for all to see, hehehahahaha!

Oh yes... that scene really sticks to the mind... *sigh*

http://www.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uqlt/SMKplayer.exe

Says enough? :D

Digital_Ronin
:tied:

mattskywalker1
04-10-2002, 04:26 AM
When Jan was supposedly killed I was hoping that on the last level Kyle would find out Desann made Jan a Reborn and would force Kyle to fight her. The result would be half way through Kyle would stop fighting and like Luke in ROTJ say that he was a Jedi and by doing so turning Jan to the light side before taking on an angry Desann. This ending would allow for another Jedi character in the series and a more emotional finale we were all expecting.

qibbish
04-10-2002, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by Moleculor


Oh NO! I just realized that that game TOTALLY ruined Boba Fett's reputaton for ALWAYS getting his bounty! Noooo!


Not sure if it applies, but the Episode II trailer has a fight scene between fett and Obi-wan. Can't say for sure a bountry was taken out on Obi, but he most definitely didn't get his man in that case. Since Obi seems to be investigating the clones fett's dad is building for the empire (stop whining, this is all from the trailers) It might just be an instance of "step off my pops, yo".. only time will tell.

humm.. fight scenes between fett and obi wan, anikan--using multi sabres-- and some dark jedi, dooku and obi wan, the ever talked about (but as of yet unseen) fight between dooku and yoda, plus mace and many other jedi fighting the empire.. humm.. sounds like a damn good flick (CAN'T WAIT!!)... Ohh.. it just hit me,
the closer for the third film will probably be the death of this new sith, dooku-- as it will be cheesie and quite un starwars like for a main bad guy to die in every movie, yet episode III can't end without some kind of hope.

Simwan
04-11-2002, 04:59 PM
I thought the ending was a little weak. Maybe its true that Jedi don't get all jumpy and emotional when they win. But what about everyone else. Usually you see others cheering them on after the battle is over. I KNOW that not everyone fighting was a Jedi; there were normal troops helping out too.

Also, please, someone tell me what on earth that energy/force beam is at the end scene. During the fight with Desann? I activated it and jumped into it multiple times. But I never could see what it actually did. Anyone?

-Simwan the Curious

princessliar
04-11-2002, 06:52 PM
Unfortunately I hadn't been keeping track of which level I was on (they aren't numbered) so I didn't realise it was the end until Dessan was toast. I was expecting to be trotting off to the Valley of the Jedi to wipe out some minions and then maybe find some big robot dude enfused with the Force (that's what Fyyar was trying to do, right? Put some force-juice into machines? :confused: ) I think it was worth it to see that cutscene though. The way Kyle lifts Jan straight up in the air is so amusingly wooden, and Kyle and Luke's handshake - oh man! lol :D

ShadowCell
04-11-2002, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by mattskywalker1
When Jan was supposedly killed I was hoping that on the last level Kyle would find out Desann made Jan a Reborn and would force Kyle to fight her. The result would be half way through Kyle would stop fighting and like Luke in ROTJ say that he was a Jedi and by doing so turning Jan to the light side before taking on an angry Desann. This ending would allow for another Jedi character in the series and a more emotional finale we were all expecting.

Perhaps then there could be something about a problem with Jan's new sensitivity in the Force.

On Bespin, when you first battle a Reborn, after you kill it Kyle says something about how its power is warped. So, perhaps this could mean Jan is some kind of "deformed Jedi" or something.