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View Full Version : Aiming in JK2 more difficult?


aram12
04-08-2002, 04:19 AM
Had anyone else found this to be the case? I've played most FPS's since the original Wolf 3d and this game seems to be the most difficult when it comes to aiming. Is it just because the AI has my opponents flanking and moving around a lot? Or is it something else different? I never played any of the Dark Forces series with autoaim on, but JK2 has me puzzled. Are the targets narrower or something? I can't seem to hit anything regularly, especially when its moving...you have to lead a helluva lot with the blaster or bowcaster. I actually got so frustrated I went back to MoH and UT which I still have installed to see if I had suddenly started to suck. Not the case. Anyone else find JK2 more difficult?

DigitalVapor
04-08-2002, 04:34 AM
Yeah, It has to do with the crosshair aim system. if the crosshairs are on a body part and colored red, you'll get a hit in. ya gotta use that mouse for more precise aiming, which kinda sux for me cause I never liked using the mouse for games

arctic_series
04-08-2002, 04:45 AM
well no not really.

you always have to lead, because they had to make all the weapons throw out projectiles, instead of hitscan like in other games.

hitscan is where there is no projectile, you hit where you point. you only have to lead if your ping is like 100+ where as the system in jedi knight is all projectile based, meaning all the weapons work like rocket launchers. it sends out a project not just a signal telling the system to land the shot where.

this is so lightsabres can actually deflect bolts back, if it was hitscan based it would difficult to tell where the bolts are going where.

to put it in simple terms, if you can see whats coming out of the barrel then you'll have to lead .. just like a rocket launcher.

aram12
04-08-2002, 04:49 AM
I've been using the mouse/keyboard combination for years now and I never had any problems. I have the color changing reticle option turned off...maybe I should turn it on to see how bad my aim really is. I still don't understand why it's so difficult for me. I find myself using alt fire with the blaster rifle a LOT, as it's the only thing that has a decent rate of fire at this point (I'm in Nar Shaada). I know there are uses for all weapons but jeez, at the end of the mining detention level, when you're in the valley below the ion cannons and a couple waves of troopers come at you, I had a lot of trouble. I figured I'd pick them off with my bowcaster or pistol from far away but I couldn't hit them as they weren't coming straight on, but strafing on their approach. When they finally got close enough for me to judge accurately the lead I had to give with my weapon, they were close enough that I just mowed them down with alt blaster rifle. This has happened a lot. I like it, don't get me wrong. It's making the game very difficult for me. But I'm curious if others have experienced this, and what exactly is the cause of it, because it's not me. Is it the AI, the target size, the reticle, the weapons? Or what?

arctic_series
04-08-2002, 04:53 AM
man i just explained it.

the guns in jedi knight don't work like the guns in normal fps games.

normal fps games guns work like this:
you click > sends signal to system saying you fired > system lands the hit

jedi knight:
you click > sends signal to system saying you fired > the projectile travels independently > then lands.

rocket launcher:
you click > sends signal to system saying you fired > the rocket travels independently > then lands.


just think of all the guns in jedi knight as rocket launchers that shoots lasers. because that's how they work in jedi knight, if it didn't then lightsabres won't be able to deflect bolts back.

aram12
04-08-2002, 04:58 AM
There was a lag on your first post, Arctic. I didn't ignore it.

I understand the projectile system as utilized by the game, but I've played all the other Dark Forces games and I've never had so much difficulty. You have found no difference between the aiming in JK2 and the previous incarnations?

70-228
04-08-2002, 05:33 AM
There seems to two extra elements in JK2. The first seems to be confire (alt fire blaster rifle is pretty clear) meaning that shots don't go where you shoot them exactly. Second is that since your holding the gun in your right hand the bolt seems to travel from you right to the reticle. The number of times I miss when close and have reticle lined up perfectly....

Personally once I got the sniper rifle and sabre I didn't bother with the guns (except that droid killing gun I suppose). After all this is Jedi Knight not Q3 (wish guns were removed from online play completely :().

aram12
04-08-2002, 05:45 AM
Even with the Blaster Rifle on regular fire seems to be a lot less accurate. And slower. Again, the difference is really noticeable to me from the previous Dark Forces games.

The point blank miss I've encountered a few times but not as much as the "I seem to suck at aiming now" in general that makes the game very difficult for me. I just turned off head bobbing and still no real difference. The bowcaster is almost useless to me.

And on the sabre/sniper combination. Absolutely its not Quake 3. I will probably play the game mostly like this as well, I just remember using a balance between all the weapons in the previous games. In this case, I'm having so much trouble with the weapons, the game seems flawed. And again, it doesn't seem to be my skill.

mstetson
04-08-2002, 06:04 AM
You just have to get used to the speed of projectiles. They don't move superfast, so they can be dodged. The way the AI moves so much makes them harder to hit once they start moving.
This is NOT Quake, so you'll have to adjust to it. Also, in the description of the weapons it lists accuracy. The blaster rifle has only moderate accuracy in primary fire mode. In secondary it's low. That's why it doesn't go where the reticle is. The secondary fire on the bowcaster and the Tenloss are dead on cause they have higher accuracy ratings.

Supa_Dav
04-08-2002, 06:07 AM
Can any one tell my why my friggen lightsaber misses all the time, i can be right up to a guy in single or multiplayer and not hit them, it's like it goes right through, It just pisses me off when i'm in the middle of a lightsaber battle and I can't hit the friggen person, What the heck is wrong, and don't tell me it is my aim, cause the crosshair is red and i'm right up against them.

Digital_Ronin
04-08-2002, 06:14 AM
Another mean thing is : although many weapons SEEM to shoot accurately, they don't.Take the blaster rifle primary shot for example - although supposed to, it's not even CLOSE to being precise.

Well, one might notice that, but a far worse case is the bowcaster... The manual says
primary shot = "precise bolt that can be also charged up to a wave of attacks"

Precise? Not in the least. It looks that way but, ironically, it's the bowcaster SECONDARY fire mode that is 100% accurate. Try it. With the primary one, you always have a small inaccuracy.

That, combined with the 95% exact model hitboxes can make it a real pain the back to hit something - did you notice that one can actually shoot through the small space between a stormtroopers holstered arm and body?

My tip: aim for mid-torso with most weapons or for the head with the sniper. You will get the hang of it. If anything fails, you can still kick in 'Force Speed' and take your time aiming. :)

Digital_Ronin

aram12
04-08-2002, 06:16 AM
Mstetson...

Are the accuracy ratings you refer to in the manual?

Because I don't see them in the descriptions of the weapons.

Accuracy is described very vaguely there. The only reason I mention it is because you said the alt fire on the bowcaster is dead on and the manual says nothing about this.

Digital_Ronin
04-08-2002, 06:23 AM
@ supa_dav :

Did you sufficiently play SinglePlayer before entering MP? I'm not saying your aim is bad, but unfortunately it's true that the lightsabers in JO do NOT disperse damage over their whole length most of the time.

Depending on what style you chose and what moves you dow, it's really different. Sometimes the damage zone is close to the hilt (especially in blue style), on other occasions it's rather the blade tip.

And then there's also a difference what move you do - experiment with it, trying to hit small objects or windows in SP, also watch where and when the saber leaves wall marks... and especially when not. Most people get a 'feel' for it quite soon.

Digital_Ronin

aram12
04-08-2002, 06:30 AM
Ronin...

So I'm not crazy. The models ARE harder to hit.

Digital_Ronin
04-08-2002, 06:44 AM
No you aren't. :D

As a matter of fact I've never seen a game with such a precise engine geometry. Almost every polgon drawn has a hitbox 100% identical to it's graphical shape.

Don't misundertsand me - I find that amazing. No more 'sneaking around corners, firing, only to notice that the blast was caught by the "invisible edge" of the corner unperceivably protruding into the air. I always hated that in other games...

Still that precision of geometry DOES make aiming quite harder.

Digital_Ronin

Canis_Aureus
04-08-2002, 07:01 AM
Well I find it rather easy to aim actually. I Play Tribes 2 and that game is a challenge ;) The projectiles travel slowly, the firing rate on your main weapon is slow you have only 15 shots... yet with practice it is possible to hit another person jetting round in the air while you do the same. In T2 the projectile speed and direction is also affected by your speed and direction when you fire... I like they way JO handles aiming... it is more challenging but leading is easy with the rapid fire :D

WhiteChedda
04-08-2002, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by aram12
Had anyone else found this to be the case? I've played most FPS's since the original Wolf 3d and this game seems to be the most difficult when it comes to aiming. Is it just because the AI has my opponents flanking and moving around a lot? Or is it something else different? I never played any of the Dark Forces series with autoaim on, but JK2 has me puzzled. Are the targets narrower or something? I can't seem to hit anything regularly, especially when its moving...you have to lead a helluva lot with the blaster or bowcaster. I actually got so frustrated I went back to MoH and UT which I still have installed to see if I had suddenly started to suck. Not the case. Anyone else find JK2 more difficult?

Weapon inccurcy of the imperial blaster/pistol may be part of the cause and the other part is the damn troopers won't sit still. ;) saber throw lvl 2+ ends this little prolem thugh, that and explosive weapons like the thermal detonator. I know some people say they don't work, but I've taken out up to 4 troopers with one before. so........