PDA

View Full Version : (not done by me...)"Yellow Stance and Mastering Opponents"


Over_burn_jedi
04-08-2002, 05:44 PM
...but its something I wish to share. It was done by one of my non-online friend who regularly plays on our LAN FFA games with JO...

I asked him if I could post it on the forum and he has agreed. So without furthur ado...
(note: he is one die-hard samurai fan and is a kendo practicioner as far as I know, so I think its not too out of character for him, btw anythign in [ ] is of my comment)


The Way of the Yellow Stance [guess those samurai books are getting to him]

The Way of the Yellow Stance is a way of understanding oneself when playing JK2. Through this stance, you will discover many things about yourself and how you play. The goal of this Stance is “fluidity, ability, and strength”.

You must be able to react to changes in the battlefield when fighting in Yellow. Being “fluid” through a duel allows quick decisions, which connects to quick actions. Being “able” to control oneself during a duel will lead to better results. Being “strong” will lead to quick conclusions and swift duels.

First to-do: Control

But first, you must be able to control your actions, before you control the duel. Practice each move and train yourself to be able to take out these moves as soon as they deem needed. Self-control leads to outward control. Not only training to control the moves is needed, control over one’s self and your own spirit when fighting is needed. As the training through the Force is also a part of self-control, it is the same in every game, or even real life, both physical and mental.
[I agree on this one, he is one heck fo a saber duelist!]

“Fluidity”

Being fluid, like water, allows you to react and act swiftly. Water flows and takes the shape of the container, even if that container also takes shape. But if water hardens, it will not flow, and so will break if the container changes shape. Patience is also another factor. Being “hard and frozen” is also the same as being immature or impatient. Acting too swiftly without taking in the entire picture will result in lack of preparation and even loss. Being fluid also mean being acute to even the minutest changes, be it an appearance of a power-up or the slightest movement of the enemy’s saber. Every single detail will mean much when a fight ensues. Even flat, featureless expanse has details that may need to be taken into account. Knowing your enemy is also another part of this. Every power-up he/she picks up, every movement, even every word must be taken into account.
[woah, deep phychological stuff]

Knowledge of your enemy is only half the battle, due to that the enemy can change his or her fighting style to suit their needs. You must be able to cope to these changes as they happen, or even predict these changes to be able to react to them. Only training and experience will teach you this. You must train and practice very hard to master this ability to predict each move an opponent could possibly make.
[dammit, gota change styles again :D ]

Ability

Self-control is a prime aspect in saber duels, either with the Force aiding you or not, it is still a prime factor. Control comes from within. Never be ahead of yourself, or behind, because every single moment counts. Even a lapse of control is enough to spell loss.
[Must be taht Kendo self-control]

When dueling, be it against one or many, harnessing every single available bit of control over yourself will definitely lead to controlling how the battle ensues. However, an over-extent of control will lead to “hardening” and thus non-“fluidity”. A very careful balance must be taken and must be kept of you are to succeed. Only very hard practice and training will you ever be able to strike this balance. Maximizing both is a mastery of oneself and will lead to mastery of the battle.
[Balance???]

Be it an offensive move, or defensive move. Every movement of your saber must be in tune to your body, and every movement of your body must be in tune with your saber’s movement. Being “one” with the saber is the ultimate goal of self-control during a saber fight. Every stroke, every strike must be followed by your body and not lagged behind or be ahead. Each movement must be precise and complete.
[I cant belive he can hit so hard on yellow!]

Even the position of your targeting reticule must be controlled every time. Your reticule must be straight and steady, always facing the opponent’s head, insuring more fluid strokes and more contact with the saber. You must not allow your view to droop downwards or face skyward, or risk having your strokes missing or not delivering to their maximum.
[hmm, come to think of it, he DOES do mroe damage on yellow than normal]

If you decide on using personal defenses or shields, remember, these are just aids, nothing more. The absence of any of these should not hamper your fighting ability, because if it does, it means you have not mastered yourself, and thus cannot master the battlefield.
[he doesnt pick up powerups taht often]

“Strength”

There are five Faces, or possible strike areas on an opponent. The Head, the Torso, the Legs, the Right side and the Left side. Each strike you make must strike at least 2 Faces to deliver as much damage as possible. Each stroke must be full; mind, body, and spirit must be intent on that stroke striking those 2 Faces. You cannot have yourself making a stroke at the head when you’re aiming for the chest…
[heck if I know what those Faces are...]

You cannot make a downward stroke when you intend on striking the Right side as well as the Torso. You must deliver the correct stroke to strike the correct Faces. Even your body movement should correspond to each stroke. For example a sideward stroke must be accompanied by a sideward movement of your reticule allowing maximum coverage of that stroke, or even the movement of you entire body in accordance with that stroke. Counter-flowing that stroke will result in nullifying its effectiveness, which will result in non-deliverance of a possible winning strike. Mastery of this must first come from mastery of self-control and fluidity. Each flow of movement must be followed with every step, every glance, and every stroke.
[???]

The Force is only an extension of self-control over one’s self. The Force allows you to react faster, strike harder, move quicker, and see more of the entire picture. Use the Force well in mastering yourself to master your opponents.
[Few words: Die hard saberist]





Techniques in Mastering Your Opponent

Once mastering control over yourself will you be able to control the flow of events during a battle. Force your opponent into awkward places. Do not let them look around, instead, when they turn to run, lead them to places they will regret being into in the first place. Do not let them look for ways out, always make you their attention taker.
[O can he beat me one on one...ouch]

Forestalling your opponent is a good way of mastering them. Set them up in a position in where you have a major advantage, if possible. Any advantage taken from any given situation you must take when fighting. Also, making your opponent lost his self-control is also another way. Since your opponent lost his self-control and did not wait, you will immediately have the upper hand since he has a chance of making a wrong decision or rush in too unprepared.
[Forestalling?]

When setting the enemy up, you must overpower him. Show him that you mean business and want to make your business short. Once he turns, rally him to any spot wherein you will have the advantage. Do not let him counter you once you made the initial rush. Counter his counter and continue onwards.

But if the opponent is already in a very dissatisfactory position, use every available advantage and keep your calm, measured strokes. Do not let your control waver even if you have the advantage, since most advantages don’t last very long, especially when control of the situation is lost to the enemy.
[Gotta memorize where he ambushes me again on those maps]

Also, feigning weakness also allows you to take an advantage, since your opponent will oftentimes take the initiative and try to strike you down. But before anything else happens, surprise them with a show of force. Most oftentimes they will be unprepared for such, immediately giving you an advantage.
[sometimes he gets me here, I though a good blue hit will kill him then BAM, I'm dead]

If you are matched against a superior opponent with no visible advantages for you to take, try to keep up with your opponent and flow with him, avoiding anything he throws at you and aim for any weaknesses he or she shows. Once a weakness shows itself, immediately strike hard and strike fast. Do not allow your opponent to even see what hit him/her.
[no wonder he acts defensively when I ambush him, and die :) ]

When battling an opponent, try to “keep his head down”, a technique in where you don’t allow him to even react to anything you dish out. He won't be able to strike back at all since you’re “keeping his head down”.
[I saw him during a Kendo practice, he's as good with taht bamboo stick as with a saber!]

Another technique is using the ability to judge when to strike, how to strike and if you should strike. Allowing “dead time” to appear in between attacks while you think is a weakness which you should avoid. When he breaks away from you, break yourself and allow some breathing room in where you can think ahead on how you should act, or react, in case your opponent decides something else. Knowing from what background the enemy is from is a tool in mastering them. Are they immature but skillful? Are they patient but lack skill? Do they rely on Force powers but not on the saber? Are they saber-fanatics but lack Force usage? Knowing their positions in how they think or how they will act adds to what you should do.
[he can read minds, plain and simple]

Countering an opponent is also a technique that should be mastered as well. You should not counter a counter when it has already begun. You should counter when it is at it’s start. This allows you to not only effectively nullify his counter, but effectively show your opponent that you are expecting such and am ready for anything similar. When the enemy shows signs of failing, use any advantage available and strike on. When they do turn and run do not let them regroup or recover, lest be met with a strong counter.
[BTW I think all his experience is from LAN games so its more of no-lag situations. He can counter like its a contest!]

To be able to know the enemy, you must think like the enemy. If the enemy thinks that he/she may lose, then you may win. Place yourself in the enemy’s shoes and see through his or her eyes and you will be able to predict anything he or she may throw at you. Knowing the enemy is only half-knowing him/her, since you do not know in what type of mental state he/she is in, or his or her “fighting spirit” as it were. Knowing at what level their spirit is, be it strong or wavering, helps greatly in acting, or counter-acting any motion your opponent makes. Being cautios as to finding out if they are willing to fight; having a strong spirit. If you cannot see his intentions or his spirit, be cautios and observe him/her and react accordingly. If your opponent lingers in wait, he or she may be doing the same thing, so be cautious of yourself showing your own intentions.
[spirit???]

Also many things can be “passed on” as it were to your opponent. If your opponent rushes, simply take a calm approach to it and only act defensively. Soon he or she will also take that defensive stance, wherein you can immediately take on the offensive and possibly overwhelm your opponent. Also, try to fool your opponent by showing a spirit that is opposite your true spirit. For example, show him or her a slow spirit, the suddenly attack with a fast spirit, allowing no extra room for your opponent to react, thereby overwhelming him or her. Even simply scaring your opponent into submission is also another viable tactic. Be it by actions, by attacks, by ability, or even by your own words can you instill fear into your opponent, thereby making him lose his self-control even a small tad, giving you a window of opportunity. Even by wounding your opponent can you instill fear into him or her. Take this into account when you duel in case he or she runs from battle.
[spirit?????? i dont get that.]

At all times, DO NOT DEVIATE FROM YOUR STANCE OR WEAPON USAGE. Any deviation is a sign of weakness in one stance and therefore may be exploited by your opponent. Sticking to one stance is more preferable than trying to master 3 different stances altogether. Always keep to your stance, but try to be as flexible as possible. Master all this well, for these skills will let you master any battle situation.
[I kinda disagree on this tho, I frequently switch stances from blue to yellow,serves me well]

madrebel
04-08-2002, 05:58 PM
nice cut n paste. i liked it better when bruce lee said it.

AlphaBot
04-08-2002, 06:05 PM
if some one actually took the time to right that about sabre duels then i am filled with pitty.

JaG|Kaiser
04-08-2002, 06:26 PM
I am amazed at the time spent in developing this idea, but not in the good way.

The Truthful Liar
04-08-2002, 06:34 PM
I thought... um... JO is just a game?? JO is not your body being in tuned with a graphical saber uhhmm... :\

*sigh - too many fanatical people trying to be all spiritual and crap*

JO = JUST A GAME

madrebel
04-08-2002, 07:43 PM
a good majority of that post was cut n pasted from a bruce lee write up on martial arts.

Prox Kolari
04-08-2002, 07:49 PM
That's what I was going to say. Looks like they found some old martial arts essay from a book and did some word replacement. I wouldn't mind someone writing something like that if it was at all applicable to the game.

Cracken
04-08-2002, 08:07 PM
I think you all are missing the point. The point is, there is a lot of very practical, real-world advice out there (mostly written by Far Eastern generals, intellectuals, and martial artists) that, when given enough thought, can easily translate into solid advice for a game that no strategy guide or L337 dickhead can dispense. Take Sun Tzu's "The Art of War". Many of his observations and philosophies can easily be applied to games like Team Fortress Classic (There's an article up at Planet Half-Life) or Red Alert 2. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with someone applying something Bruce Lee (I bow to the Dragon, one of the true Masters of the modern era) wrote or said to a style of swordsmanship in this game. After all, many Taoist and Buddhist philosophies are the basis for the Force, so why not?

MrCrusher
04-08-2002, 08:21 PM
a good majority of that post was cut n pasted from a bruce lee write up on martial arts

I thought it sounded familiar :D

"Bruce Lee's Commentary on the Martial Way"

Nice Book on Lee's Jeet Kune Do style....

madrebel
04-08-2002, 08:24 PM
because if you take a snipet of what bruce said and try and apply it in a game not only does it have no meaning (bruce would never limit himself to one style) it has no relevance since real world and virtual world are 2 different thing.

i prefer the theory he also put forth which was. Learn everything, practice hard on new theories and tactics. Keep what works best for you and discard those that dont work FOR YOU.

no two people are the same. what works for one doesnt work for another.


honestly, youre over thinking this. if you know anything about bruce, or his weapons style, you would laugh at this like i am.

lol a video game lol funny.

Hiteche5
04-08-2002, 08:39 PM
Did it occur to you guys that he may be joking?

GreyJedi
04-08-2002, 08:50 PM
Might be from Miyamoto Mushashi's "Book of 5 Rings" which deals with swordsmanship. Bruce Lee's work on Jeet Kune Do doesn't have too much bearing on Kenjitsu or Fencing.

Anyhow, a lot of what is said in the post can be applied to virtual fencing, but you really have to ask yourself How. Treatises like these are merely things to think about, and not a rigid methodology to follow.

Mafia_Jabba
04-08-2002, 09:01 PM
i can't read for that long man

MrCrusher
04-08-2002, 09:09 PM
because if you take a snipet of what bruce said and try and apply it in a game not only does it have no meaning (bruce would never limit himself to one style) it has no relevance since real world and virtual world are 2 different thing

Actually MadRebel,

There is something many martial arts do practice, it can be described as meditative visualization. I counter fight when sparring the same way I do when meditating at the game console and they do reflect within each other. The virtual word will alway find grounding in real life. However, in the virtual world you are allowed spiritual freedom far greater than in real life. ..........

I had watched a friend doing his sword Kata's last weekend, he is ranked second in the US in some Korean style. All of the sabre moves were there.... Raven's and Lucas Art's virtual world are well grounded in reality.

Kiell_Randor
04-08-2002, 10:05 PM
I would say your friend has read "The Book of Five Rings" many, many times. Most of what he said excluding specific references to the game (such as what to do with your reticle) was simply a paraphrase or summary of things Miyamoto Musashi said many many moons ago. Not meaning to be critical, but his little thing is almost borderline plagiarism :) For all that, it seems to be a decent enough adaptation to the game... I wouldn't hail him as being terribly original however as a lot of this 'techniques' were straight from the BoFR, but with a different little name to replace the one Musashi gave it.

Shifty Capone
04-08-2002, 11:18 PM
heeeeeeeey i read part of the book of five rings......my friend is into kendo

Zed030
04-08-2002, 11:40 PM
"Fluidity" my heavy stance jump. :elephant:

waar
04-08-2002, 11:53 PM
Does your friend Bruce say anything about lag?

MysteriousJedi
04-09-2002, 12:01 AM
...too many words. i started to read it and quickly got bored and amused at the same time. how could someone spend the time to write something like that even if they did just fill in words here or there? its a f***ing game. maybe some real world stuff could apply to it but dang, dont be so spiritual. id like to see you use that nonsense when i force pull your arse to the floor and chop you to pieces with heavy overhead attack.

Jumpy
04-09-2002, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by madrebel
a good majority of that post was cut n pasted from a bruce lee write up on martial arts.

So does this mean he was friends with Bruce Lee?

Razage
04-09-2002, 12:34 AM
".... Good against remotes is one thing, good against the living... ahh that's something else. Trust me, there's nothing like a good blaster at your side kid."

igor
04-09-2002, 02:55 AM
no offense but DAMN... I had to give up reading it after like 10 minutes. I am sure that was wonderfully written but I don't have all day to read a post.

Jedi-Bert
04-09-2002, 11:47 AM
the part about aiming so your swing hits 2 hit locations is a very good idea, allows light and med stances to up their damage

ankor
04-09-2002, 12:33 PM
when you die you respawn..

so dont waste too much time trying to "overpower" a hard enemy... simply crush others.. most maps are so big you dont run into the same ppl all the time.

:deathstar: remember to utilize the gadgets you pick up.. like running away from 3 enemys its a good time to enable the force field at a doorway.
have the drone activated in crowded situations - peels down a couple of enemys while fencing or shooting.
If theres a couple of enemys teaming up - quit the sabre and use a powerfull gun instead - even mines are good for close combat.

Skarfays
04-09-2002, 12:53 PM
OMG, after reading that and putting into practice i went into a melee and got like 40 some kills in 25 minutes and i RULE in duels.:D

btw, my screenname is musashi :D

FatboyTim
04-09-2002, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by waar
Does your friend Bruce say anything about lag? LMAO!

"The Force is strong with this one!":vadar:

Much of this is similar to The Book Of Five Rings (which might well be worth a read if you're deadly serious about duelling!)

http://www.samurai.com/5rings/

Over_burn_jedi
04-09-2002, 04:45 PM
well I passed on your comments and yes, he does say it sounds a bit borderline too much like Musashi's "A Book of Five Rings" (I've read it too, pretty similar).

He's said that its more of LAN type play. No lag (or very little) to bother the lack fo hit detection when playing online (lag sucks when saber dueling).

He also said how he wrote it sounded WAY too seriously. Well its his first work in guides/faq/anything similar so I woudnt be too harsh.

Personally, I found it to be very useful (well, LAN-wise gameplay), I would reccomend it for those very low-lag gamers who are DEAD serious about dueling.

Just to add, some of his ideas about saber duels are very nice, like the Faces thing (needed him to explain that one to me tho). Also the thing about tricking/mastering your opponent thing, taht one really helped me a lot when I was playing against him again, it was a blast. I finally got a grasp of the philisoply behind saber dueling (well, some of it actually ;) )

seanconnery
04-09-2002, 11:39 PM
Any way I can contact this guy? :)