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View Full Version : Bring back live actors!


Madjai
04-08-2002, 07:09 PM
the ONLY thing i dislike about this game is the cutscenes.
i was really hoping for live actors like in JK, that just made the game more realistic, like i was apart of the starwars universe. I think it made the game much more interesting and if there is another JK game they should bring back the good cutscenes.

thrEEpaGe
04-08-2002, 07:13 PM
yeah it seems like the devs are going w/ rendered cutscenes with the 'amazing advances' they have made in 3d rendering....the scenes look soo sweet in real life...like jk's....that was awesome...it got you pumped for the game...with this, the whole thing was anticlimatic...

luke and kyle's handshake was hilarious....they locked thumbs and then just moved up and down...lol..

Hot_Pocket
04-08-2002, 07:17 PM
I also agree, i liked the live action cutscenes. They were really nice and gave the game more life.

Prox Kolari
04-08-2002, 07:29 PM
Yuck, no thanks. I'd rather have animated cutscenes than watch "acting" by the cast of Jedi Knight:

- Kyle's oddly bloodshot eyes
- that fat, grinning, hammy Twilek Jedi
- Jerec, who apparently thought "Dark Side" meant licking the air and sounding like a Power Rangers villain

JaG|Kaiser
04-08-2002, 07:36 PM
No way. Those actors were so cheesy in the first one. The new scenes aren't that much better.

Emon
04-08-2002, 07:37 PM
Benefits of live cutscenes:

1. Looks more real than ingame cutscenes

2. For older games like JK, they look much better than the alternative ingame rendered cutscenes with horrid player models.


Drawbacks of live cutscenes:

1. Time consuming

2. Very expensive

3. Human actors look too out of place compared to the ingame player models

4. Very expensive

5. Time consuming

6. Did I say expensive?

Delmar
04-08-2002, 07:38 PM
there are pros and cons to both but i agree, the live actors really added a nice touch to the game. of course, getting hamill to play luke would have been ________.

(Not sure if it's that should be filled in as "cool" or "a real bad idea.") :D

Daynor
04-08-2002, 07:39 PM
i prefer the JO way and the live action ideas kinda gives me chills
:)

hughJ
04-08-2002, 08:01 PM
with the hardware we have right now, there's really no reason why they can't use special hi-res models (20,000+ polys each maybe?) for cutscenes and still have it rendered realtime... using gameplay models for cutscenes generally looks sloppy and rushed (especially considering the close-ups you have, and the lack of gameplay that normally turns your attention away from detail)..

it's not like there's a lot of action during cutscenes anyways, so other than the model polycount increase, I can't see it being that major of a frame rate hit.. even on lowergrade systems, a ~20fps cutscene is still very watchable..

it's perhaps just a matter of the modelers and animators having the extra work to do.. but, imo, the amount of polish that it would add to the game would be astounding and greatly appreciated.. would also be something that could be used easily for commercial interest (ie - using cutscene footage for commercial trailers, etc)

Jerol Seren
04-08-2002, 08:47 PM
good lord, man! Don't you remember the acting in the cutscenes in Jedi Knight? NEVER wish for live action cutscenes again :P

Foxbatkllr
04-08-2002, 09:02 PM
Yeah that acting was horrible. It was cool at times, but cheesy as hell. I think the critics also would've given it worse reviews.

Edit: Woohoo! 100 posts! I'm now a Sith Probe Droid.

Emon
04-08-2002, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by hughJ
with the hardware we have right now, there's really no reason why they can't use special hi-res models (20,000+ polys each maybe?) for cutscenes and still have it rendered realtime... using gameplay models for cutscenes generally looks sloppy and rushed (especially considering the close-ups you have, and the lack of gameplay that normally turns your attention away from detail)..

it's not like there's a lot of action during cutscenes anyways, so other than the model polycount increase, I can't see it being that major of a frame rate hit.. even on lowergrade systems, a ~20fps cutscene is still very watchable..

it's perhaps just a matter of the modelers and animators having the extra work to do.. but, imo, the amount of polish that it would add to the game would be astounding and greatly appreciated.. would also be something that could be used easily for commercial interest (ie - using cutscene footage for commercial trailers, etc)


20,000 polies each?? ARE YOU CRAZY?? Yes and we all have GeForce 4 Ti 4600s!

Wes Janson SMR
04-08-2002, 09:25 PM
I thought the live Kyle Katarn actor of JK1 did a decent job when he came to the "fork in the road", choosing between the Light and Dark Side. You can really see the emotion.

JK2's scenes were fine - except for some character interactive scenes (like the kiss). But the models were, in fact, higher than normal in any game. Fantastic.

But that kiss should have been CG rendered. I'm not talking about Final Fantasy-level quality CG, here. I mean filmed directly from the game's sequences, using higher-poly models, and careful artificial manipulation of their...well...lips to get the proper effect. You know what I mean.

I can't wait 'til I break into the industry. And when I do, I hope I'm privilaged to work on a Jedi Knight game. Hell yeah!

OY!! OY!! OY!! !

Jokis
04-08-2002, 09:30 PM
I actually like the live cutscenes more for the realism, but I do agree it would be more expensive and time consuming. I buy games to be engrossed in the entertainment.

BioHazzard
04-08-2002, 09:38 PM
Maybe they should do 3 d computer animation and then call the video from a file when they need it....

hughJ
04-08-2002, 09:40 PM
being that the cutscenes are scripted, I really don't think it would be a problem... because all the camera pans, angles, and general speed of camera movement and animation could be kept a bit slower so that a viewable framerate would be much lower than normal action tends to be (30fps cutscenes could appear as smooth as 60fps+ in the faster ingame action)

20,000 polys models for slow-paced cutscene movement wouldn't really be all that much (perhaps on the upper extreme for Gef1-class hardware), but I'd say anything over 10,000 would be good enough to have it look like near-prerendered cutscenes that tend to be associated with how the current new-gen consoles look for their realtime cutscenes...

other option would be to just have prerendered FMV cutscenes..

Bacon00
04-08-2002, 09:49 PM
LIVE CUTSCENES??

Dear god no!!!!

I swear, if I ever see real live actors in cut scenes again, I will openly wheep.

The actors they can afford are not the "cream of the crop." The game developers just don't have enough money to hire actors, make the sets, the costumes, etc. When you do that, you have to hire set designers, wardrobe people, makeup people, hair people, etc. etc. etc. With voiceovers, you don't need any of that stuff. The voice actor could be a fat, acne-ridden, cross dressing tranvestite and it doesn't matter as long as he/she sounds decent.

I personally think in-game cutscenes add to the imersion of the game... you are more in "control" or the characters.. you see a cutscene, and then you play out you own "cutscene." With live actors, you watch, then play a game.

jlo mein
04-08-2002, 09:51 PM
THE RENDERED KISS BETWEEN KYLE AND JAN SUCKED ASS!!! It looked so horrible and dumb....especially when the camera has to pan to the back of her head cuz they cant properly animate a kiss....

:( .....i miss the actress who played jan in JK....she was pretty hot...

Wes Janson SMR
04-08-2002, 09:57 PM
Mmmmm.... Asian hottie...

Darth Sane
04-08-2002, 09:59 PM
They should have done it like FFX did - multipule forms of cutscenes.

You had those that were in game, using the models. (pretty damn good)

and you had prerecorded cgi movies that looked sickeningly realistic! I mean come on, after what they're doing in Episode I and II, don't tell me they can't do cgi cutscenes that rival realistic movies.

Or maybe they were just lazy and figured that no one would like single player until they figured out how to spawn everything and have their own battle royals.... *cough*

Pvt_Dancer
04-08-2002, 10:11 PM
I prefer the engine cutscenes over the live action stuff.
There was something about them that made the live action ones stand out as seperate from the game.

Locke101
04-08-2002, 10:29 PM
I perfer the game rendered cutscenes. I dunno, feels more i am like into the game then having a 3d person adn then jumping to a live action shot. Yeah, the live cutscenes in JK were good but with the recent advances in 3d technology, why would the companies want to spend tons of money paying for actors, props, etc. In the end, the Companies save money and we still get quality cutscenes (how ever, the mouths and teeth could have been better, and stated above by someone, the hand shake between Kyle and Luke. LOL!)

Madjai
04-08-2002, 10:38 PM
ok if not live actors then they should have done everything with computer graphics instead of the massively ugly game engine (its awsome for gaming, but for cutscenes...) and models for cutscenes.

MankaCat
04-08-2002, 11:19 PM
because the game engine wasn't 'computer graphics'

WitchDrAsh
04-08-2002, 11:23 PM
I quite liked the acting scenes in JK.. Jerec really came across as a total loon. Katarn wasn't badly acted tbh.. Considering the ingame cut scenes were just as cheesy, and acting non-existant (look at all the emotion portrayed by any of the 'actors' in JK2). Nah I like acting cut-scenes, they may be cheesy with crap acting but atleast they're entertaining.

WDA

SaberPro
04-08-2002, 11:39 PM
I rather pay more to have live-actors :D

Kyle Rules!!

Looking forward to live-actors in JK3 :)

Keyan Farlander
04-08-2002, 11:41 PM
I say go with live action. It's far, far better in my opinion. But I think those days are pretty much over. They reached their zenith in Wing Commander IV, and will never see that greatness again :(

Assault3000
04-08-2002, 11:41 PM
In my opinion I thought the people who acted out in jk were not bad. The actor who did Katarn seemed to fit the role nicely, he did the correct facial expressions at the right time, I mean would you rather have a guy that looks like this --->:band: or how about a little furry ewok --->:ewok: the acting was not as cheesy as most think it was considering the people had no real experience. Should they bring back the live acting? Possibly but with the same actors who did Kyle and Jan, nothing is dumber than a different actor playing the role in a sequal.

scoobz
04-09-2002, 11:02 AM
All I can say is "Red Alert 2". Kari Wuhrer in that tight top ... nuff said :D

Master Spiff
04-09-2002, 01:07 PM
CG "acting" is getting better. As soon as your average PC can easily display Final Fantasy (THE MOVIE) quality game animation, you should have no complaints. And the way PC tech is going, that should be around sometime next month.

mattskywalker1
04-09-2002, 01:08 PM
The ingame cutscnenes in JO were disappointing to say the least. Why couldn't they at least make them like X-Wing Alliance or Force Commander if they didn't want to use real actors.

ToiletDuck
04-09-2002, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Bacon00
I personally think in-game cutscenes add to the imersion of the game... you are more in "control" or the characters.. you see a cutscene, and then you play out you own "cutscene." With live actors, you watch, then play a game. 100% correct

thrEEpaGe
04-09-2002, 01:19 PM
the average pc isnt the equivalent of an average gaming pc master spiff....there will have to be probably a couple or more 3d card generations for that to happen....

Master Spiff
04-09-2002, 01:26 PM
threep

that was what I like to call .... sarcasm. i wasn't serious.

thrEEpaGe
04-09-2002, 01:28 PM
there are video cards out there that render final fantasy at 60fps, about 2.5 times the speed required by movies...so actually i wouldnt be surprised if in a few years we could be seeing something like that...

ie D3 w/ i think 250000 polys/char...that would be nice

in comparison i think shrek used 1.5 million polys/char...mm...i cant wait....

Master Spiff
04-09-2002, 01:51 PM
The problem is that it takes a lot more effort to model and texture with that much detail. That all equals $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

But in probably 10 years, games like this will look at least as good as FF (the movie). They'll just be more expensive.

Sith_Incarnite
04-09-2002, 01:55 PM
I do think that the live action is a good touch and adds a touch of realism to the game itself but it does take a lot of time, effort and not to mention MONEY to do those live action cut-scenes. If they could get really good and "known" actors to play the parts and have ILM do the special effects....that would be awesome!! But look at it this way, the more money, time and effort that is poured into the live action the less "time, effort and money" will be spent on the actual gameplay and functionality. When given a choice I prefer to pour 110% into the gameplay.

Sith Incarnite:cool: :cool:

hughJ
04-09-2002, 02:24 PM
"there are video cards out there that render final fantasy at 60fps"

the final fantasy tech demo they used was not the real final fantasy... poly counts were far far lower in the demo, the effects were obviously stripped down, etc..

to be able to play the actual real final fantasy in real time at 60fps... we're probably still at least 5+ years or more away from that..

Wakizashi
04-09-2002, 02:30 PM
I join the crowd of live-acted cutscene haters.

Really, the actors at original JK were absolutely horrible, and even though these aren't exactly the best thing available, they still were far better, and integrate into the game well.

Essobie
04-09-2002, 02:52 PM
Does anyone remember the cutscenes in Interstate '76? The reason those were so good was that they paid top notch VOICE ACTORS to do a really good job on the voices, and then relied on the stylistic quality of the in game engine to emmerse the player into the world of polygons.

Now I'll admit that with the bit of knowledge I have of modeling and animating I can see places in the JK2 cutscenes that could have been improved on quite a bit. But here's the main problem with live actors in a game that uses 3D models for the characters OUTSIDE of cutscenes:

It makes you feel MORE like you are just playing a game when you aren't watching a cutscene.

With Interstate '76, at no time did the graphics of the game and the graphics of the cutscene "disagree" with each other. This meant that even though you were playing a game, you were never REMINDED of that fact when the game paused to give you some story. It just flowed together.

JK2 is just like that... JK1 was not. JK1 you were playing with UBER low poly models (pyramids for feet, mind you) and all of a sudden you saw some jackass in a big costume trying to convince us that he, just a few seconds ago, was a 200 poly model. It completely tears you from the experience when you realize "oh, this is where they have to bring in actors to try to fool me into thinking that the horrible model I was just playing with is a living, breathing human."

Just tacky. And as many have mentioned before, the acting in JK1 was horrendous. The only thing worth looking at was the actress that played Jan... and I'm sure that the casting director hired her specifically for the eye-candy... not her acting ability.

I think that hiring live actors is a complete waste of money, and it just reminds people that they are playing a video game with cutscenes. I'd rather just play a video game and leave the rest to my imagination.

Essobie

thrEEpaGe
04-09-2002, 02:53 PM
5+ years is hilarious....lol....

lets compare the "technology" of 5 years ago...

JK vs. U2

hahahahaha

Degas
04-09-2002, 05:35 PM
Some of the intervals between cutscenes are so long, you forget why your character even cares.

For instance, I'm looking for Desann's ship, the Doomgiver right now. I've been having fun in the level, it's very challenging. But I can no longer remember where I am. Is this base on an asteroid, is it IN an asteroid, or what? And why am I here? Objectives show only that I'm supposed to be looking for Desann's ship. OK, fine. Why? I dimly remember running into Luke somewhere in this level, and that he ran off to do something or other. But I have no recollection of what it was.

More cutscenes would make this seem a hell of a lot more like Star Wars and less like Quake III Arena. The true artistry of Star Wars was the awesomely entertaining STORIES involved. I get no sense of a story from this game, sadly.

I think the majority would like to see live action cut scenes, with live actors. The main ***** seems to be the quality of the actors in JK1.

I think the mechanics of the cutscenes using the game engine just reek, sorry. Anyone ever watch Monty Python series on TV? Where the animation scenes show the toons talking with absolutely no change of expression and their jaws as a separately animated piece of the graphics? That's exactly what I see in these game engine cutscenes.

So, my first choice would be GOOD live actors. Second choice would be GOOD CG animated cutscenes, not using the game engine. WAY behind the pack is the current method of building the cutscenes for the game. With any of those methods, though, they need more cutscenes to bring the game and the story behind it to life.

My $.02

Degas

Signature:

LOSE THE DAMNED POPUPS, PLEASE!!

Hiteche5
04-09-2002, 08:17 PM
I personally like the cutscenes from JK but I may have to agree with those that say for this day and age we don't need to do that anymore. We have anough advances in CG rendering to be able to do a cutscene of high quality. Why don't they include live actors? EXPENSIVE. Also if you don't geet the same peeps to play Kyle and Jan (oh mama) then it ruins it for alot of people.

BTW those people who say that the engine can't suport the cutscene..remember for a CG rendered scene a MOV file plays..the engine does not do that. So they could have done rendered scenes for all of us to enjoy. Do you think your PS2 is able to render those cutscenes? No. It's an embedded movie file.

Now the only problem with a CG rendered cutscene is that they have to have the equipment to do them (Final Fantasy the movie cost 10 million and 20 percent was for the equipment alone.) and the artist that do it. Sure Raven guys are some smart cookies but that is a whole other side of programming. Usually when you see a CG rendered scen in a game it is done by another studio..Again we a re talking money. Hopefully the revenue will allow the expansion or sequel to have some good scenes.