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View Full Version : how could you screw up this bad????


Evil_Ferret
04-09-2002, 02:25 AM
when I bought this game and played the SP I thought WOW this is incredible!!!! However when I went into MP after having beat SP, I was very dissapointed. Everything in MP is great except the saber fighting! You only get a few moves, and then they dont even change with the stances!!! Plus there are no special moves, saber locking almost never happens, and when sabers colide the is less then half the sparks and smoke as SP. I really hope Raven fixs this in a patch. Without it saber fighting kinda sux. Other then that, this game has the best SP i've ever played. I dont mean to make any one mad with this post, but really how could Raven have taken all the saber moves out of MP???
:lsduel:

Valdarious
04-09-2002, 02:31 AM
Well there are special moves, just read the post I just responded to, which is like 5 threads down from this
Saber moves (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41281)
I know there is probably more but give it time to see what people find out.

Absath
04-09-2002, 02:36 AM
besides they needed to make the game playable in MP. all the frills of sp would lag half the gamers to desktop =P

igor
04-09-2002, 02:45 AM
The thing with the sabers in MP is that if they blocked the same as SP then it would be too easy. Someone with a gun wouldn't have a chance.

Moleculor
04-09-2002, 02:48 AM
No one is really sure. Some think it's because of netcode problems (i.e. all that stuff would make more lag).

But honestly, there's no reason why sparks and smoke would make more lag, since none of it would actually be sent by wire.

And as for the moves and stuff... position of players, and move they're making should be what's sent. Don't understand why that is so hard to do either.

So no, no one really understands it. But there was a thread for patch requests, and that was one of the most requested things, so they'll probably at least TRY to fix it.

waxdart
04-09-2002, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by Evil_Ferret
You only get a few moves, and then they dont even change with the stances!!! Plus there are no special moves, saber locking almost never happens,

[snip]

Not true. Watch closely. Strong stance moves are broadcast from about a mile away.

You can tell who's using the fast stance when the unending combos start. ;)

Special moves are in there as well -- in fact, I haven't found one that I _couldn't_ replicate in MP.

You might want to try a duel server, if you haven't already. FFAs are pretty hairy, and typically a big, swingy mess.

I'm convinced that saber-locks are less frequent not because of the mechanics in MP, but because nobody will actually engage their opponent. Since people are still figuring it out, there's lots of run, run, flail.

Actually, the coolest saber lock I've seen happened to me in MP. Was in the hangar level -- my opponent was on the top ledge. I force-jumped up to meet him and swung on my way down -- and landed into a lock. Was really... filmic.

Pol Favre
04-09-2002, 03:13 AM
i saw one today that was awesome. the only bad part was that one of the people played as a swamp trooper. nothing uglier than a swamp trooper with a lightsabre. they rock for heavy warriors, but not for 'sabre wielding warriors.

anyway, it was on bespin streets, out on the...pad thingy. i was spectating during the duel and had my view level with the ground. backdrop was the orange sky, the sparks flying...a true beauty.




if you want sabre dueling but not on MP with the nasty graphics and no slow-mo and choppy play (servers have no lag? sure, but we still SEE the other people lag. which is REALLY ugly), just start up an MP map in SP and spawn a rebornboss or tavion, or even desann. the thrills are endless. i spend hours doing that sometimes. it's great >D

Evil_Ferret
04-09-2002, 03:19 AM
In what way would the moves from sp increase lag in MP??? and is the sabers blocked the same as SP it would just make it more balenced(spelling). I will have my cross hair right on a person he will fire a shot from the pistol at me and IT HITS ME!!!!!!!!!! HE DOESNT BLOCK IT!!!!!!! Besides most gun's second fire cant be blocked and does more damage.

I can not produce any special moves in MP. also all the stances have the smae basic attacks. when in SP the medium stance is mostly swipes, except the one special move where he spins around and hit the person in front of him. the light stance is just like it is in MP you spin all over the place. while the strong stance is mostly a big slow version of the medium, just he swings a lot wider

I have a fealing that if they changed the saber fighting to what it is in SP, not so many people would be running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

CM_Third
04-09-2002, 03:24 AM
A guns second fire can be blocked, the Bryar is just a bigger energy bolt and its funny to walk up real close as they charge it then shoot straight into your sabre bounce off and kill them. Jumping aorund not swinging to evade some shots and block some shots from the stormtrooper 2ndry rapid fire works and you can deflect it to kill them before you lose 25% of your health, the repeater you can use force push and same with that other gun that fires big ball things. Also you can push thermal detonators.

Saber locks haven often for me almost one a duel with a decent duelist.

panacea
04-09-2002, 03:25 AM
I saw a guy win a saber lock, but his opponent didn't fall.....just got shoved backwards. Then the loser just swung and totally cut him down. Sad way to go.

ElderJediLord
04-09-2002, 03:28 AM
Even though I have yet to play multiplayer online with anyone, even though I see differences, mp is still good, I'll mention for a fact, I managed to get a lot of ugly kills agianst jedi master bots in duel with strong attack, basicly I was pretty far out of normal range :P

Though, I'll come online soon enough, look for some named Elder.

Valdarious
04-09-2002, 03:31 AM
If you notice in SP, when you and the reborn(or whatever) are swinging at each other, sometimes each saber will hit each other and both will kind of kick back or be blocked etc. Thats what most of us miss in MP, it brings that real saber battles feal into the game. Now if they had that same thing in MP it would create more lag because the server has to know exactly where each person hit one another to calculate a block or kickback etc. How it is now, its basicaly swing and the server just looks to see if you are standing still and in front of the player and says, block, if the player is moving or swinging at the same time, hit. In essence thats how the MP code works I believe, and changing it would take a long time.

waxdart
04-09-2002, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by Evil_Ferret
I will have my cross hair right on a person he will fire a shot from the pistol at me and IT HITS ME!!!!!!!!!! HE DOESNT BLOCK IT!!!!!!! Besides most gun's second fire cant be blocked and does more damage.

Force push is your friend. Sends many alt-fires back at the attacker.


I can not produce any special moves in MP. also all the stances have the smae basic attacks. when in SP the medium stance is mostly swipes, except the one special move where he spins around and hit the person in front of him. the light stance is just like it is in MP you spin all over the place. while the strong stance is mostly a big slow version of the medium, just he swings a lot wider


Strong Stance:

Forward+Jump+Attack is the unblockable attack. Had to dodge that one alot on the duel servers tonight.

Medium Stance:

Forward+Jump+Attack is the 'death from above' move. Worked for me a couple of times an hour ago.

Fast Stance:

Crouch+Forward+Attack is the forward lunge. Mostly a nice surprise. I got a couple of people with it, but it didn't do me much good.

Also, I haven't personally gotten the backstab to work for me in MP, but I've definitely seen it done.

I'll say again: Look closer. The stances produce the same types of moves, but with sometimes-subtle differences. Fast swipes are quick but short range. Medium swipes are, well, medium, but have a better area of attack. Strong swipes will practically swing in a circle.

Understanding the applications of those simple dynamics can mean the difference between 0wn1ng and being 0wn3d (Dear God, I just went l33t!). Seriously. There's a range of subtlety to it that takes practice and patience.


I have a fealing that if they changed the saber fighting to what it is in SP, not so many people would be running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

I won't debate that the SP mode is more refined, but very simply: you won't ever see a block/parry happen if you and your opponent don't actually engage one another. The blocks are less frequent, I'd guess because that kind of hit detection is probably a lot of load for a 'Net game. But the blocks do happen, and that (IMHO) is one of the coolest looking things of saber fighting in SP -- seeing sabers collide.

Goumindong
04-09-2002, 03:55 AM
its hard to do because in order to have lightsabres bounce off eachother the server has to know exactly where the sabers are.

the real problem is that the client and the server and other clients are running at a slight time difference, when something happens on the your client, it take my client the latency of you to the server +me to the server to see what you are doing. this means that if you attack, and i attack our sabers will pass though eachother on both machines. Now if they were to bounce off, we would see it just fine (as it would be done on our machine) but the server would suddenly jerk our saber around. this is becaus on the server the saber was simply going forward, and had not bounced back yet. if it was to be a server calculation, then you would get some really wierd things happening on your machine (like your saber bouncing off of nothing) because the sabers had passed through them on your machine, then the server sent you the packet that told them to bounce then they bounced.

Basicly is a communication issue (or at least as i see it). Server and client wont communicate well.

Evil_Ferret
04-09-2002, 04:00 AM
maybe raven could at least put all the SP moves and stuff in, but give the server the option of disabeling it.

aletoledo
04-09-2002, 04:47 AM
something funny is that I have had more saber-locks in multiplayer than I ever had in SP and I'm halfway through my second SP campaign.

the reason nobody every gets a saber lock is that everyone goes in swinging. I many times will block many attacks before I start swinging and I'd estimate that I get one saber-lock every duel I enter into...if its a NF, than its more like 2-3 locks!

frankly I don't like them, I can't figure out why I will sometimes lose, I mean how much faster is the other guy really hitting his button?

gobobaknob
04-09-2002, 05:25 AM
In JK I could've sworn that lightsabers worked underwater, so how come now in JO they don't work? Kinda got me irked since they're the same series of games, even though they're made by different people. Cause that Yavin_swamp level would've been so much funner and easier with a lightsaber that works underwater. Speaking of which, is a lightsaber hot? It doesn't seem like it would be since they hold it pretty close to them, but in JO the saber makes steam.

Goumindong
04-09-2002, 05:41 AM
the saber doesnt generate heat unless its touching something solid, or semi-solid.

Mr_Sharky
04-09-2002, 06:52 AM
I've had some great duels where we've both been spinning and my saber has bounced off the other guy's saber... it makes you swing away from eachother in the opposite direction just like in the films... The easiest way to get a saber lock, I've found, is to run at your opponent and both press attack as you reach them. Also, if your in the middle of more advanced spins and stuff you can still time a saber lock but it is more difficult... :cool:

PhilCanuck
04-09-2002, 01:12 PM
I get saber locks all the time in MP. One night in particular I was fighting a guy named Jeroin (I think), and we locked at least once (usually 2-3times) per duel. It really depends on style. If you have two people who stand in and fight, you get locks. If you're fighting someone who acts like a headless ballerina, or you do that yourself, you don't.

Pol Favre
04-09-2002, 03:08 PM
like goumindog said, the sabre is virtually non-existant until it touches something. i was reading about them last night at starwars.com

SuicidalMonkey
04-09-2002, 06:08 PM
Yes but technically it's ALWAYS touching something. I mean, there are particles of stuff in the air that we can't see...but they are there...the lightsaber must be touching them all the time.

Ok, I'm just being an ass and not constructive at all...umm... I think there needs to be an option for people to have sp style lightsaber fights in mp. I don't play online (stupid dialup) so I usually set up a lan with a few friends on the weekends and well, that type of connection means lag doesn't exist...so it'd be a very nice addition. That should be constructive enough to overshadow my previous comment :).

Monnnster
04-09-2002, 06:17 PM
Personally I think it would suck to get saber-locked all the time.

entreri
04-09-2002, 07:05 PM
For those of you who find you can't win the saber lock no matter how much you push primary fire try this little trick - lift the mouse off your desk and palm it, this way you'll tap left mouse WAY more than if you have it on the desk. (Don't confuse "palming" the mouse with just lifting it - wrap your hand around that baby and click away.) Hopefully you'll find yourself knocking the other guy down to the ground way more, and if the other guy is good you have a way better chance of breaking the lock in a draw (you know where you both knocked back but not down).

Peace!! Ent. :deathii: