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Assault3000
04-09-2002, 10:02 PM
What do YOU think the best chapter in Kyle Katarn's adventures was? In my opinion it was the original Jedi Knight Dark Forces II. Also what are your reasons for thinking this is the best?

Assault3000
04-09-2002, 10:35 PM
Ok well I guess I'll give my reasons for thinking JK was the best. First it had not too bad real life cinematics, Kyle didnt have gray hair at a young age, the villian was not in the hair club for men, it had the most events that made you feel sorry for Kyle's past. Sure the AI and graphics may not be as good as the newly released Jedi Outcast but the original JK had the most memorable moments, the original Dark Forces coming in second. In my opinion anyways.

digl
04-09-2002, 10:48 PM
the villian was not in the hair club for men :lol:ROFLOL:lol:

I still can't say for sure, because I don't know how long I'll play JO,.
I voted for DF, I still think is the one I enjoyed the most in SP, and considering MP, I can't say yet because of what I said above.

GreyJedi
04-09-2002, 11:12 PM
I voted for JK1 because it was really original for its time given all the Q2 clones of mindless killing. The game really seemed like one long interactive Star Wars movie, and I felt that the level design was awesome and didn't feel very linear.

Compared to Q2, which was one long hallway after the next long hallway, the huge levels of JK1 were very refreshing.

Plus the addition of force powers, choosing between light and dark powers/side added a whole new role-playing/gameplay dimension to the game (well, not really role-playing - maybe a little).

The touches such as Rahn's voice overs before Jedi battles added just the right amount of immersion and class to the game. Definitely a classic.

I think that JK2 improves on the pieces of JK1, but lacks the overall refinement that JK1 has. The sabre battles are superior along with the graphics (of course), and MP is better in JK2 as well.

I never played DF1, but I like the idea that in the first mission, YOU are the one stealing the Death Star plans in the first Star Wars movie - so I heard.

DigitalVapor
04-09-2002, 11:13 PM
I voted Jedi Outcast due to the vast gameplay improvements. but as far as story goes, Jedi Knight hands down! now I must say that Dark Forces had that kind of atmosphere that kept me coming back for more no matter how many times I beat it. It had this really eerie mood to it and I just loved it. it was like a star wars based suspense thriller. I will never forget levels 2 and 3 for that heart pounding suspense

Assault3000
04-09-2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by GreyJedi

I never played DF1, but I like the idea that in the first mission, YOU are the one stealing the Death Star plans in the first Star Wars movie - so I heard.

Yeah the first mission is playing as Kyle and raiding an imperial base on danuta and stealing the DS plans. Which is only, EXTREMELY EASY for a mission that has stealing the plans to the most powerful battle station in the galaxy you know.

Assault3000
04-09-2002, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by DigitalVapor
I must say that Dark Forces had that kind of atmosphere that kept me coming back for more no matter how many times I beat it. It had this really eerie mood to it and I just loved it. it was like a star wars based suspense thriller. I will never forget levels 2 and 3 for that heart pounding suspense

I agree, I felt that out of all the games Dark Forces had the best Nar Shadda, I mean the spray painted walls and commercial televisions on the walls made it seem like a real big crime filled city. I was dissapointed at the lack of the big crime filled city feel in JK's Nar Shadda.

Schizophrenic
04-09-2002, 11:25 PM
I voted for MotS for the sole reason of Mara Jade. Sure, JK1 had a better story and JK2 had better gameplay, but MotS had Mara. End of discussion. :D



I so desire a JK2 expansion with her in it... IT MUST BE DONE.




An update of Dark Forces using JK2 technology would make me rethink my decision though.

GreyJedi
04-09-2002, 11:26 PM
Is it just me or do the Grans in JK1 Nar Shadda say "What's up loser" when they attack?

Assault3000
04-09-2002, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by GreyJedi
Is it just me or do the Grans in JK1 Nar Shadda say "What's up loser" when they attack?

You mean when they say something and at the end it sounds like "hosay" or something? Does sound kind of like that, but the bad thing about the grans in JK is they use the EXACT same voice over that was in Dark Forces.

WinkyHarper
04-10-2002, 01:40 AM
So far I'm only about halfway through JO, and I never played MOTS, but I did play Dark Forces and Jedi Knight back in their heyday. Dark Forces, for its time, was one of the best FPS's on the market, a worthy challenger to Doom in a sea of mediocre clones. I'll never forget the first time I walked through that hallway on the first map, gunning down stormtroopers while the MIDI version of John Williams' score played in the background; to me, it was the peak of the Star Wars gaming experience, back in the days when X-Wing, Tie Fighter and the like were considered benchmarks for the franchise. It should also get props for the Detention Center level alone (where you must rescue Crix Madine). Anyone remember that awesome puzzle where you had to blast open a grate, climb up, open an emergency hatch into the elevator shaft, and then jump on top of the elevator itself? Classic moment.
Jedi Knight had the lightsaber and force powers, and just as many of those special moments. But I think the original DF gets overlooked simply b/c it's the oldest, and hence isn't as flashy or visible as JO, or even JK/MOTS.
For what it's worth, I'm having a great time playing the new one and I think it's a worthy successor to the series. I still wonder how Obi-Wan would have been had it stayed a PC-only title, however.

Raxxo
04-10-2002, 01:55 AM
I voted MoTS. Partially because Schizophrenic knows what he's talking about, but also because it gave us such a cool MP experience: the Lars homestead, the Darth Vader and Luke skins, the Emperor's Throne Room... and later, we got the Duel of the Fates mod. I never cared much for the MP aspect of JK until I got MoTS. Yes, the saber combat was still random and annoying and fidgety... but damn it, you could square off against Darth Vader in the Throne Room. :)

BTW, the duel I liked the best from the original JK was Sariss. Not only was she a cool character ('...of all the dark jedi I know, Sariss is the one I fear... a master, a perfectionist...') but because her fighting style actually gave us proper fencing, clashes and blocking.

And I have to admit, no bot in Outcast gives me the same feeling of fencing combat as my endless duels with Sariss. :(

Salute,
Raxxo

Kurgan
04-10-2002, 02:01 AM
So far I'd have to say JK wins for SP, MotS and JK2 are tied for MP in my book... MotS seems to offer QUANTITY, while JK2 has QUALITY. Dark forces is fun, but it doesn't hold a candle to the rest of the games, IMHO (I know some disagree).

The mod scene will be the deciding factor. ; )

Demyse
04-10-2002, 02:12 AM
Dark Forces, without a doubt. You got to steal the death star plans, escape from Jabba, shoot stormtroopers in the back while they're taking a piss (Mission 13, check all the rooms, eventually you'll get to some stormtroopers facing some intrusions in the wall. They're urinals :D ). Plus, you got to take on the Dark Troopers (which to this day are highly recognized in the Star Wars universe). It was non stop action all the way through, I still have MENTAL IMAGES of it. I could also probably BEAT it again in about 3 hours if I started playing it tonight. While it didn't have a lightsaber, it had some coooool weapons. The one I miss most is the fusion cutter, I nearly drowned myself in tears when JK came out and I found that it didn't have this gun. DF kicked ass, no hands down.

Damn, I think I might try to get that to run on my computer tonight. (Like I'll have any hope running it in Win2k though...)

digl
04-10-2002, 02:35 AM
Originally posted by WinkyHarper
So far I'm only about halfway through JO, and I never played MOTS, but I did play Dark Forces and Jedi Knight back in their heyday. Dark Forces, for its time, was one of the best FPS's on the market, a worthy challenger to Doom in a sea of mediocre clones. I'll never forget the first time I walked through that hallway on the first map, gunning down stormtroopers while the MIDI version of John Williams' score played in the background; to me, it was the peak of the Star Wars gaming experience, back in the days when X-Wing, Tie Fighter and the like were considered benchmarks for the franchise. It should also get props for the Detention Center level alone (where you must rescue Crix Madine). Anyone remember that awesome puzzle where you had to blast open a grate, climb up, open an emergency hatch into the elevator shaft, and then jump on top of the elevator itself? Classic moment.
Jedi Knight had the lightsaber and force powers, and just as many of those special moments. But I think the original DF gets overlooked simply b/c it's the oldest, and hence isn't as flashy or visible as JO, or even JK/MOTS.
For what it's worth, I'm having a great time playing the new one and I think it's a worthy successor to the series. I still wonder how Obi-Wan would have been had it stayed a PC-only title, however. That's EXACTLY the way I feel about it!!! when I first went down that elevator with the music playing and my blaster killing those ST and officers sprites
And I think that elevator puzzle is one of my greatest gaming memories.

Kurgan, I may be wrong, but I think I remember you didn't play DF back in the day did you? That's the reason because you don't love it as much as we do.

reserved_name
04-10-2002, 02:42 AM
i have to vote for Mysteries of the Sith for the simple reason that its last map is still the best map i have seen in any game (some maps from Thief 2 and original Unreal are close tho), other than that i would vote for Jedi Outcast

Dead_Hood
04-10-2002, 02:56 AM
My vote goes to the first Dark Forces. It was one of the first games I remember where you had the ability to jump and crouch, and it supported mouselook (although it still auto-aimed like a *****) The graphics for the time were excellent, and every weapon was usefull (yes, even the mines). DF2 just didn't start off as fast for me. I mean, the first mission in FD1 was to steal the plans for the Death Star. If that's not cool, I don't know what is.

Crack 6K
04-10-2002, 03:30 AM
I like them all. They each have their own qualities.

Dark Forces was a GREAT game back then, everything people said above is completely true. I'll never forget the battle with Boba Fett and the final stage, fighting the Dark Troopers and the final boss Dark Trooper, well, that was a turning point in my gaming career :).

Jedi Knight was unarguably one of the best games of all time, and had impressive story progression and awesome levels. (Though I've replayed it a few days ago, and wondered 'who in their right mind would design a building liek this??').

JO improves on almost everything but seems to take a small step back in the atmosphere department. Dark Forces had a "heavy" feeling to it, and in JK you felt one with the character. You identified with his losses and his progression with the force. Also, I thought Nar Shadaa was done much better in JK1.

Assault3000
04-10-2002, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Crack 6K
I thought Nar Shadaa was done much better in JK1.

Really? I miss the crime filled atmosphere of spray painted walls and commercial monitors. The Nar Shadda in JK and JK II just seem like normal every day innocent cities which they deffinately are not in the sequals. Sure Nar Shadda and JK and JK II were both decent but if they added the spray painted walls and commercial monitors everywhere it would have been more realistic to the inhabitants in the city. Also the cargo containers dropping stuff off was good and the nar shadda of the original df seemed a lot more interesting to explore. All Nar Shadda's have their ups and downs.

Assault3000
04-10-2002, 10:36 AM
Also to add a bit I found addon levels to be more creative for Dark Forces, some classic creative levels are Condition Red, Search for the morning star, Admiral Harkov's Defection and theres more. The addon levels for JK, and MotS were not as creative as these classics even though they still are very good.

Darth Tryphon
04-10-2002, 11:57 AM
I totally agree. Nar Shaddaa had the greatest feel to it in DF. I've never played JK/MOTS (was on mac...). But i'm sure the modding community could take care of recreating at least some of the missions from Dark Forces (including the troopers plz ;-)

Rogue15
04-10-2002, 12:17 PM
MotS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hehehe i love the quotes in it...especially the ones Kyle uses.....Follow me to the heart of the temple, feel the power embrace you, as your Jedi powers fail you!!!

hehehehehe

and

Mara! I've destroyed the base! What have I done!!!

Graphicsgod
04-10-2002, 12:35 PM
Dark Forces, hands down!! Even though it was 2d and sprite based, it still had a much more SW feel compared to JK and JO. MOTS came close to the fealing of DF.


Someone needs to remake it using JO ;)!!

Sartis
04-10-2002, 04:48 PM
I have to say JO is my all around favorite now, Jedi Knight 1 had a good story and you really did feel what the character felt, but JO to me has a better atmosphere and all around good game play.

Dark Forces was pretty good but just cant hold a candle to the JO game fun I've had.

Creston
04-10-2002, 06:05 PM
I played all of them, and loved all of them. But the sheer feel and thrill of fighting three or four Reborn at once in a no holds barred lightsaber slugfest raises JO to the definite top.

Dark Forces had some pretty otherworldly level design for what was basically a 2d engine, and was VERY atmospheric. Remember that mission in those mines (mission 5 I think), where eventually you HEAR that first Dark Trooper coming? I nearly pissed myself every time I heard that :eek:

Jedi Knight featured even more spectacular levels, cooler gameplay, and you had a lightsaber and force powers, but unfortunately, I think the lightsaber was more a toy then something you could genuinely finish the SP game with. If three stormtroopers started shooting at you, they cut you to mincemeat in seconds. And the quality and sheer enjoyment of the game went downhill from about level 12 and on..

I played MotS a few times, but it lacked something. Don't know what really, it just didn't seem as cool. It was nice to play as Mara, but some of the levels weren't all that spiffy, and the last part where you HAD to use forcepowers, in a game where doing that really wasn't all that easy didn't really sit well with me.

JK2 is just awesome. it's a shame about the multiplayer, but the single player can't be beat. I just need more levels! I finished it seven times now, I can dream the exact location of every Reborn on every diff. level... Pleeeeeease give us a 20+ level expansion pack. I'll pay anything!

Btw, you'd figure that eventually Nar Shaddaa would simply refuse to let Kyle land, right? I mean, this is the third time he's shot the place to hell! :D

Creston

hughJ
04-10-2002, 06:35 PM
with the strong ties that DF had to the movies, i think its atmosphere was head and shoulders above the rest.. even the sprite stormtroopers felt a lot more starwars-ish due to the constant reminder that you were playing during the peak of the empire.. rather than left-overs..

only thing that seemed to come close to that starwars atmosphere in JO is when you initially gain your force powers and lightsaber (mainly due to the music, I suppose)

Assault3000
04-10-2002, 08:16 PM
Recreating Dark Forces for Jedi Outcast may sound like a spectacular idea but there are the downfalls. One is it will lack the feel of the 2d+3d engine so making some areas will be more difficult. The Sewers would be difficult since someone would need to create a Dianoga enemy and then there needs to be 2 phases of dark troopers not including Moch's phase 3 mech suit thing. Then you got the cutscenes, only one way I can think of recreating those, taking them from the original itself.

Ham Yoyo
04-11-2002, 05:29 AM
JO with JKI a close second.