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View Full Version : Thoughts on Jedi III


qibbish
04-09-2002, 10:11 PM
Just finished Jedi 2 and am ready for 3, which will probably continue in the tradition of being an amazing starwars game. Some issues I'd like to see addressed:

* more SP force powers.
* stealth options.. hell, multiple solutions to "quests" would be nice in general.
* new lead character (probably won't happen)
* a return to the multiple paths (light/dark) kinda game where the force powers recieved are not so scripted.
* if stealth, add some kind of indicator as to how well certain enemies can see you (not general like thief, maybe some kind of display which appears when you focus on an specific enemy).
*more moves with deeper combo systems (not just fw+attack but fw+fw+attack+jump, or whatever).
* LONGER SP GAME. I really find MP to be pointless, plus the sabre duals don't look nearly as neat as SP (for bandwidth reasons, I would assume). Don't get me wrong, it's fun.. but looses it's charm pretty quickly (I'm hoping the community helps the game in this respect). Now that I beat Desann, I feel like I've lost a good friend forever.. hell, I had hoped to still be playing the sp game next month.

Plot wise, it would be nice to see a radical departure from the Katarn saga. Maybe invoke Jade again, or the Twins (leia's kids).
Or, investigate the early years of the republic (ala Bioware's Knights of the Old Republic CRPG-- For those that don't know, this takes place 4,000 years before the movies, when jedi and sith grew on trees). Kyles ok, kind of a village people meets han solo kinda character (I'm just waiting for him to put on the leather jacket and slap some matching chaps on those hot hot buns of his).. but he's getting toooo old to be a lead. I'm glad raven avoided the trap of making this a prequal based game based on an established character, but new blood is needed .


to be fair though, I doubt jedi 3 will show up on the scene until episode 3 has hit the theaters, if even by then.. (but I'll bet my bottom dollar that tavion will be the bad ass in that one, if kyle keeps on the scene as well--she was one BAD ASS fighter).

anybody have any other thoughts they could add to my list?

DigitalVapor
04-09-2002, 10:24 PM
I personaly would lov to see Kyle progress into a Jedi Master. Have the first few levels be of Kyle at the academy. And have the plot start out with Jedi Master Kyle being sent on a mission for the Jedi rather than his usual republic mercenary missions. Maybe have a mission where Kyle must locate and recruit new members for the academy. then of course run into some twisted scheme being hatched by yet another dark jedi, or maybe even someone hell bent on re-establishing the sith. New blood is nice but there is still so much that can be done with Katarn. And as for the title...Obviously Jedi Knight III: Jedi Master

acdcfanbill
04-09-2002, 10:42 PM
well, lets see, calculate the mean mass, and the average weight... divide by the coefficent of integration, add the derivitive and subratct for pure sillyness...

which means JOii will be out in 2007, the same five years we had to wait for JKii... really, you cannot hope for another Jedi Knight game so quickly... although i agree with some of your suggestions, bringing in a new lead charcter would totally kill the whole saga... there is no DF, JK, or JO without Kyle... i hope for an expansion w/in a year, and another Jedi game with Kyle in under 5 years... just my opinion on what will happen:D

II_Aragorn_II
04-09-2002, 10:57 PM
if you took kyle out of JO II it would kill the whole thing instantly, I wouldnt even buy it if it removed kyle !

ryudom
04-09-2002, 11:26 PM
i dunno kyles getting pretty old... too bad the game made him age so quickly, i liked the jedi knight kyle more then the old JKii kyle. young kyle looked more buff and athletic too

Mr. White
04-09-2002, 11:42 PM
One thing I hope is that it will not be called Jedi Outcast 2. That would take way too long to type Dark Forces 4: Jedi Knight 3: Jedi Outcast 2: Attack of the Sit Infused Clones; or whatnot. And also, Kyle cannot train at the academy. He is in love with Jan and we all know that a jedi cannot know love, it is too dangerous of an emotion, it would leave one very susceptible to the dark side. The only way a new lead would be able to be introduced is if it is Kyle and Jan's son/daughter who can properly be trained to weild the force.

I also liked the idea that the force powers were scripted in their leveling up, it allowed more puzzles to be solved by force powers.

Other than that I would rather like to be suprised on the story.

qibbish
04-09-2002, 11:56 PM
"i agree with some of your suggestions, bringing in a new lead charcter would totally kill the whole saga... there is no DF, JK, or JO without Kyle... "

I thought it was the fact you could play a jedi that made the game so popular. The fact this jedi was kyle seems more an after thought than anything else. Of course, I'm new to the JK world, I will admit this probably effects my perspective.. and kyle is cooler than most SW characters (aside from young obi-wan, but I'm a ewan fan), but if they replaced him with .. say.. han solo's daughter who studied with jade, or another up and coming jedi who could do everything kyles avatar is capable of (and more, due to training as a jedi) I'd be just as happy. Don't get me wrong, the fact this game attempts a story is admirable, but I wouldn't call it good by any stretch.. corny and predictable, yes.. good? Nah. Better than just a MP FPS? hell yeah!

If I had any say in it, I'd vote for setting this in the old republic time period and doing characters that have NO connection to the main movie elements (maybe loosly).. but, then would it have a star wars feel? probably not (even if they had lucas in to storyboard the thing, what makes star wars-- I'm sad to admit-- are the movie characters and events). prequal events wouldn't work due to the fact no sith were reported to have surfaced since their defeat 4,000 years prior (then again, desann wasn't a sith.. humm). Post JO2 wouldn't work due to the fact the remnant were destroyed at the end (galak seemed to be the muscle behind them)... and it would be cheesie to have yet another x-imperial upstart causing trouble so close on the tail of two defeats (unless you made it a good 15+ years, which would exclude kyle.. unless they wanted to do a geriatric jedi adventure.. like old ben's cantena scene on crack). Humm.. I honestly can't think of a post JO2 plot which could work, and incorperate kyle and stormtroopers (the latter being more of a must than kyle, IMHO).

Thoughts?

qibbish
04-10-2002, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by Mr. White
I also liked the idea that the force powers were scripted in their leveling up, it allowed more puzzles to be solved by force powers.

Other than that I would rather like to be suprised on the story.

They could still incorperate that, but to make it work they would need to add multiple solutions to puzzles, ala most decent crpgs (well, fallout and arcanum.. bg to a lesser degree). They needn't make it solvable by too many different "threads".. just one or two. For example, by level X the designers might be able to bank that the player would have been given Y number of points for allocation in force powers. With a finite number of force powers to place these in, certain possibilities arise. Scenario one is they maxed their jump, scenario 2 is they maxed mind trick.. etc.. they could come up with puzzles that could be solved by a few different scenarios, some that might offer different results (i.e. the ever vaulted characteristic of replayability). Play testing gets the bugs out..

Just an idea..

Jedi_Monk
04-10-2002, 02:15 AM
I've just gotta say: Kyle Katarn is my favorite Star Wars character. He's powerful, witty--he's Luke, mixed with Han Solo with a dash of Darth Maul. His story is great: from patriotic Imperial to a Rebel agent, to a Jedi Knight. He's been everywhere.

For JKIII, I'd like to see live-action cut-scenes again. They just made DF seem to fit into the SW mythos in a way that none of the novels could. Those cutscenes made it real! Real people appearing in the official SW universe, not drawings, not words on a page, not computer models. My least favorite thing about JKII is the animation of the cutscenes. I don't know if it's because of my settings or what, but some of them are just painful. In the scene where Kyle is talking to Lando aboard the Lady Luck, you can SEE THROUGH LANDO'S HEAD via a little seam behind his ear!

As for new villians. Lose the Empire, the Empire is dead. Kyle's wiped out so many bases, killed so many stormtroopers... how many more can there be?! Well... maybe that's not a good example, since the Stormtroopers are obviously clones in the light of EpisodeII, but... anyway. Kill the empire, disregard the books (Lucas has, and Lucas is SW), don't even go into the Yuzzah Vong. Go to the Sith. The Sith are awesome. The Sith are evil. The Sith are the vampires of the Star Wars universe, the dark army. Look at the Tales of the Jedi series for inspiration. The experiments on living things using the Dark Side, turning them into Force-infused monsters.

So, in closing: Keep Kyle, go Sith.

Hawk3y3Pierce
04-10-2002, 02:55 AM
The game would become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

Hawkeye :lsduel:

Roach604
04-10-2002, 03:35 AM
uh uh, jedi CAN love. Or did you forget that Mara Jade is Mrs. Skywalker? Not bad for a Zahn character....

acdcfanbill
04-10-2002, 03:51 AM
i think that is a long gone rule by this time, more of an old republic rule... they take what they can get these days :D

Canis_Aureus
04-10-2002, 06:06 AM
I don't really think a JO2 would be that intertresting. I would rather see a real star wars MMORPG developed... with a real storyline and the same kind of great combat as in JO. By the time JO2 would be finished I think that kind of MMORPG would be possible too :D

qibbish
04-10-2002, 06:11 AM
"I would rather see a real star wars MMORPG developed... with a real storyline and the same kind of great combat as in JO. "

done-->

http://www.starwarsgalaxies.com/

the problem is that an online universe will never be the same as a single player FPS. The motivations for play are different (one is based on role playing, the other is combat.. sure, both can exist in either catagory, but the ratios are different). Combat, as we see even in JOs MP, can't be quite the same as in SP (ex-> sabre locks don't have the same animation, due to bandwidth limitations.. etc). Also, until we all have T3 lines right into our homes, a market for lag free fighting will surely exist (plus I like to die and not automatically respawn). Lastly, some of us like to play epic heros.. not just another in a sea of people who paid their $40 to be another in a sea of people.


as to the "jedi knows not hatred, jedi knows not love" vs. mrs. skywalker I'll chalk that up to people who wrote the books not being as informed to the back story as lucas himself. Remember, he didn't write those books, and probably wasn't consulted much either. He also didn't tackle the issue in the first 3 films, so people were left to wonder. Now he has voiced an opinion on it, and makes those who made assumptions look stupid. Personally, I care little for anything added to the star wars universe that isn't canonized (i.e. from the films, or lucas himself in some fashion).

The reason for prohibiting love makes sense once one is presented the notion, but I wouldn't have assumed it. The rational is also one that would exist regardless of the republic's state.. the old ways were commentary on human nature, not on the current state of socio-economic or political structure.

Kurgan
04-10-2002, 11:29 AM
He is in love with Jan and we all know that a jedi cannot know love, it is too dangerous of an emotion, it would leave one very susceptible to the dark side.

I guess that explains why Luke and Mara got married... dang Dark Siders!

Love = positive emotion (right? at the most basic level, verses its opposite "hate")

And since the Jedi are all about positivity (and control of course), I don't see why that's even a problem. Sure you have the "unified force" vs. "living force" people, but c'mon, really. Sure we've all seen the Melrose-Place style Episode 2 trailers, but really... the Jedi can't do all their recruiting door to door...

Broode
04-10-2002, 11:49 AM
Luke and Mara got married... when? After the movies? I'm sorry, that doesn't exist.

Love may be positive, but that kind of love is suceptible (sp?) to the dark side. Things like jelousy and possessiveness really can lead to the dark side - even in our own world. So nyar.:p

And in reference to the door to door thing, yes they can (they are a huge institution - you don't need to be a jedi to check someone for... those... things... in.. your.. cells...) and there has been no evidence that force sensitive parents bears force sensitive children from the movies. It's not true unless it came out of Lucas' mouth. (in relation to star wars - hes wrong about everything else)

Creston
04-10-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by qibbish
Kyles ok, kind of a village people meets han solo kinda character (I'm just waiting for him to put on the leather jacket and slap some matching chaps on those hot hot buns of his


LOL :D


I already talked about desires / wants for Jedi 3 in a different post. :)

Creston

qibbish
04-11-2002, 04:41 AM
humm.. which post?

Smeggy
04-11-2002, 07:16 AM
hmmm, this has gone fairly off topic, but I'd like to make two comments...

1) I remember seeing somewhere that all the EU is authorised by My Lucas himself to be part of SW universe (but im not 100% on it)

and 2) (back on topic now) i doubt that the next one will be jedi knight 3:

1st we had Dark Forces,
then we had Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight,
now we have Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast,
so next I think we will have Jedi Outcast 2: with some other subtitle :p

Vestril
04-11-2002, 09:06 AM
Personally, I care little for anything added to the star wars universe that isn't canonized (i.e. from the films, or lucas himself in some fashion).

Since all of the EU was licenced by Lucas, it is as Canonized as JK2....if you don't care for it you would not, by that logic care for the games very much...maybe you just don't like reading?...

Now that I'm done being foolishly OT, as usual, I'll hit the topic and say that JK3 or JO2 or DF4 (eeeeeep) may never come, perhaps we'll all go over to Knight's of the Old Republic!! If it does, hopefully Kyle will be in it, but in an inpirational role rather than an active role, master rather than apprentice, I think a hackneyed Imperial plot would satisfy my lust for Katarnisms, or maybe they could clone him!! oooooooh

lol

THE_X_RATED
04-11-2002, 10:00 AM
George Lucas respects Expanded Universe, but not always follow it when he is writing plots for the upcoming movies. The good example is Boba Fett story...where lucas change his history from the book that was a collection of different bounty hounter stories. In the Episode II, we will be revealed that Boba Fett is a clone of Jadek Fett...a fearsome bounty hunter that plays a significant part of the overall story in Episode II.

I personally think that Kyle Katarn will have one more story, which will probably be seen as an expansion to Jedi Knight II. What for example become of Tavion?

I think the next episodes should take place about 5 years down to line from this story. Where Kyle is still a Jedi and could become a master at the end. However, if this story is to continue...it does need pretty dramatic plot lines.

I hope they will concetrate on the story a bit more and use better cinematics to reveal the plot line, as they did before. I kinda noticed that towards the end of the game in Yavin levels, the game kinda became more and more boring. Even the final chat with Desann was a bit boring and uneventful. They could have done much better.

Creston
04-11-2002, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by qibbish
humm.. which post?

I tried to find it but couldn't. Most posts on this forum disappear to page 9 or 10 within a day, and I really couldn't be bothered to scour every page trying to find it.

Look for something called "JediKnight III Wish List" or something :)


Vestril, if Kyle is in the Knights of the Old Republic, then THAT would explain why his hair is turning grey in JO. KotOR is set 4000 years ago, during the great sith war (I think) :)

Creston

Mattman
04-11-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by qibbish
Also, until we all have T3 lines right into our homes...

Hah! What kind of backwards, stoneage future are you trying to create for us? Fiber optics are much faster than the mere 45mbps a t3 provides, and from a MUCH smaller cable at that... ;)

PS: Sorry, I'm an IT / telecom guy. :D

:cool:

moore+
04-11-2002, 03:29 PM
"For JKIII, I'd like to see live-action cut-scenes again. "



NOOOOOOOO.

Live Video has NO PLACE in computer gaming. Always comes off cheeseball, yanks you out of the game, just awful no matter how highly produced.

And kyle is sorta annoying, has been since jk, he was ok in df I guess. I darksided him up (skinwise anyways) for sp (hey I would have gone straight to darkside powerful crazyman right away if they killed my woman) and I'm going to replace his voice as soon as I can.

Jedi_Monk
04-11-2002, 10:04 PM
I agree with qibbish. The Star Wars galaxy is Lucas' galaxy. There are four Star Wars series I concider conanical, though: Zahn's original trilogy (Thrawn, Ysalamiri, Mara Jade... a lot of things found in the sequils to Dark Forces), and Steve Perry's "Shadows of the Empire". Lucas was involved closely with both the trilogy, and "Shadows"; Zahns' because they were the first Star Wars novels written that took place after Jedi, and Perry's because it was the blitz that went along with the Special Editions. In fact, Lucas included some things from "Shadows" into the SEs. All of the other books, as far as I know, were given the "okay" by some LucasFilm rep in Bantham and later Delrey who didn't know what the heck Lucas wanted or was going to do. Lucas has said that he doesn't read the novels.

Jedi_Monk
04-11-2002, 10:06 PM
As for live action cutscenes. Yes, do it... deffinately. It doesn't take me out, it draws me deeper into the world and makes it seem more realistic and more a part of the universe, as well. And if you prefer live action to the crap-animation of the cutscenes in JO, you're a psycho.