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RedHerring
04-15-2002, 08:46 PM
...then the Light Jedi should have Meditation. It would be easily implementable, and it gives a viable solution to "drain *****s". It could replace Mind Trick or something. I think this idea has been already presented, but I still think its a good idea. Absorb, even if you hot key it, is still too slow to catch drain before they get anything off you, which after a while will slowly wear out your mana.

The only thing I can see for them not to put this in a patch is the balance issues. Since Light Jedi have Heal, Meditation should have lots of boundaries, like you have to stop completely for it to work in lvl 3, and then you'd have to crouch and it will take longer in lvl 2 and in lvl 1, you would have to stop attacking for 5 secs, crouch, then wait.

This has been my first rant, so don't be too harsh if you disagree.

Reaper21x
04-15-2002, 11:28 PM
Stopping for any amount of time in fight = dead jedi.

digl
04-15-2002, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Reaper21x
Stopping for any amount of time in fight = dead jedi. Agreed.
And what would meditation do? you typed a lot but said nothing

Emon
04-16-2002, 12:07 AM
The best solution is to simply remove drain entirely from the game. If Dark Jedi can't have that power, replace it with something more destructive. Perhaps another Force Destruction without the immensive power and huge concussion that the one from JK had? Would make it less cheap.

Or maybe, make Destruction like how Jerec used it (or something like it) when he blasts Kyle onto the fueling ship. I dunno, but Drain is a such a *****. Yeah, you can counter it, but your mana is already half gone, and keeping Absorb on during a fight is just as bad.

Sartis
04-16-2002, 12:12 AM
Funny that the people who want Drain removed, downgraded from the game are the ones who defend Absorb to the last. Drain is in the game it won't get super nerfed, it may get downgraded abit but your gonna have to live with having someting that makes you lighsiders just a man with a saber, just like how Absorb makes the dark jedi just a man with a saber

Lucreto
04-16-2002, 12:16 AM
Presonaly i think drain is cheap as well i play as a dark jedi and i dont use it ive tryed to use it but its a watse of force grip and lighting and dark rage are my powers that i favor drain is a cheap way to heal and mess around with the other player

OOO
04-16-2002, 01:11 AM
Don't like drain? Kick on absorb and you can't be drained :)
Absorb won't give you any force energy back from a drain, but your force energy won't be drained either, other then the normal amout of force energy is costs to keep absorb up.

Absorb pretty much shuts drain down, so long as you can see the guy coming. Plus absorbing your way out of a grip will give you a big jump of force energy so you should have it anyway. You can go from just barely being able to turn it on to close to 75% force energy from someone trying to grip you :)

OOO

Emon
04-16-2002, 01:16 AM
You guys have to really look at your mana when you play like that. Keeping Force Absorb on DOES drain your power, maybe not as quickly as Drain, but nevertheless it does. And by the end of the duel, your still empty, and probably dead, which is what matters.

Face it, Drain really IS cheap. It's not a huge problem, but it should be handled. It would already be done if Raven made an MP test and then listened to customer feedback to improve upon the game.

Pvt_Dancer
04-16-2002, 01:17 AM
I don't find it "cheap" at all. For one... its how a dark Jedi heals himself with the Force. Two... there is a delay between the time that you use drain and are able to use another force power in which time the prey should at least get enough back to counter the grip that is usually coming.

I haven't had a problem with it yet. I find just about every force tactic has a viable counter.

Desslock
04-16-2002, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by Emon
You guys have to really look at your mana when you play like that. Keeping Force Absorb on DOES drain your power, maybe not as quickly as Drain, but nevertheless it does. And by the end of the duel, your still empty, and probably dead, which is what matters.

Face it, Drain really IS cheap. It's not a huge problem, but it should be handled. It would already be done if Raven made an MP test and then listened to customer feedback to improve upon the game.

A rough guess... 7 out of 10 duels, drain has not affected the outcome. If the guy was a good saberist, I lost. If I was better than him, I won. Whats funny is watching people draining you when you have no power. I also see a lot of Sithys forget about drain and not drain you for the rest of the match after one or two times. Usually happens when I get a couple of near hits.

I think people are over-exaggerating the problem. Yes, Absorb counters Drain, but Absorb slowly eats mana. Once Absorb dies, you have no mana to drain.. nothing missed. Right? So whats the point in putting up absorb? To allow protection of your limited force pool and allow you access to that in case you need it. Sometimes the guy will forget to drain you and you can usually sneak in some Protection if your knocked down and survive. And hopefully kill him. I recommend throwing absorb up after protection, because protection does not counter absorb.

Tozier
04-16-2002, 01:34 AM
Ahem... drain adds to HP not mana. The Lighties have a healing power.... um.... HEAL! The darkies actually have a disadvantage because they can't add to their mana. :p :wstupid:


That is all.

rionikuanjiru
04-16-2002, 01:49 AM
Actually, I feel that if drain used on someone with absorb on would increase his mana, like lightning, it would pretty much balance things out.

Pseudofun
04-16-2002, 01:59 AM
I think if somebody uses drain on someone using absorb, the drainers force should be sucked out of him as fast as it would be sucked out of a drain victim..and perhaps give the absorbed jedi a slight increase in force power..

^_^

Plan9
04-16-2002, 02:08 AM
I play a dark jedi, and I use Drain as a Denial tactic. You think I am going to let a light Jedi get his force back, so he can keep healing? NO, I am going to keep him drained. Does this make me a drain *****? No, I don't think so; I see it as a viable "denial of force" tactic =P

Same applies to when I am fighting another Dark Sider: Am I supposed to sit there and not drain, so he can Drain ME? Again, constantly draining him denies him the opportunity to the the same thing to me. It may be hypocritical but hey, its what works.

arctic_series
04-16-2002, 02:17 AM
it drains too much and too fast.

with drain up close you can heal from 1-100 in like half a second.

raven should just make it that drain won't work if you have full health

Madjai
04-16-2002, 02:18 AM
two things i hate about drain:

1. It happens so fast you cant possibly react fast enough to stop it from stealing all your mana.
2. After all my mana is gone the dark jedi still has some and then simply grips me and i cant do diddly squat.

this has happened many many times, the only defence against drain is running away or try to kill them while they drain you, but they can backup as fast as you can run forward so thats not too likely to happen.

donutz
04-16-2002, 02:31 AM
My opinions on drain after a few good days of straight dueling in MP.

1) Shouldn't be able to drain if dark jedi has full HP
2) Should cost more mana/force for the user
3) Should add to mana of light jedi with absorb on
4) Range should be lowered
5) Should lower the healing rate for the dark jedi

Right now I think drain should have its place in the game, but toned down alot. It costs too little force to cast relative to its power. Not only is the user gaining life, opponent loses mana, thus even lowering the light jedi's ability to counter it even further.
Because there is a casting cost (as well as the countdown cost) for absorb, once a light jedi is down to zero mana he must run and wait a while before his force charges up. The range of drain is so far that unless the light jedi totally flees (not an option in duel servers), he pretty much can't charge enough mana to counter drain and get in and fight.
And since drain does not charge up the mana of an absorbing jedi, his mana is going to run out eventually and then the dark jedi keeps nibbling at his force, never letting it recharge, and topping his health up at the same time.

My 2c.

stellerwinds
04-16-2002, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by Reaper21x
Stopping for any amount of time in fight = dead jedi.

guys that isnt so
games like RTCW play a slow pace without making the game boring AT ALL

bazzooka in wolfenstien takes like 30 seconds to reload, all guns use like a max of 4 clips of ammo or something
there are no health or ammo packs AT ALL, all health and ammo comes from 2 player classes that have to distribute them

its kinda dumb that each player can do everything himself and never needs to rely on anyone else
its bad enough there are packs all over but then people can drain and heal themselves totally on the run

what big loss would it be to need to stop and rest for a few seconds?
i guess that just goes against the DM code :P

Zindell
04-16-2002, 02:43 AM
with full force you can force heal yourself to a hundred in 3 seconds no problem either, I primarily play on no force servers because you get a much more enjoyable game out of it but the times I'm forced to play on a server with full force i use it to drain both people of their force powers so you can have an even battle. When you play against someone who has heal and you get a good hit on them they just back off and heal themselves and then come back after, battles are seemingly endless due to this. just the minute your health is low run away. I also use it the most on ns_streets so I don'T get pushed or griped into the casm below me. I've played both sides of the force and I agree with what someone said earlier, every force power has a counter to it. I think healing in all aspects should be eliminated. Med packs shilds etc. Or at least less placements of them and make them barely acessible. I mean right when you die your back in the action with full health anyways. I'd rather have really good short saber battles like duels then haveing batles that can last an eternity no matter how good you play.

Pvt_Dancer
04-16-2002, 03:03 AM
1) Shouldn't be able to drain if dark jedi has full HP

This I can see as a viable point... the force being drained would be going nowhere and that just doesn't sit quite right.


5) Should lower the healing rate for the dark jedi
This I DON'T agree with. This is the Dark Jedi's only healing force.

arctic_series
04-16-2002, 03:11 AM
This I DON'T agree with. This is the Dark Jedi's only healing force.

what he probably meant is that drain heals way tooo fast.

you can easily get from 1-100 with 2-3 guys in front of you with a full mana.

Pvt_Dancer
04-16-2002, 03:48 AM
Oh... Ive never had that happen to me. If I try to drain that close I get cut down... I guess I just stink. However, you're right. It shouldn't heal faster than "Heal" does for the light.

Darksider
04-16-2002, 03:53 AM
Hehe drain my make a lighty just a man with a lightsaber, but so long as i have dark rage absorb wont phase me ;)

j/k, i love drain and its generally the power i pop 3 ranks into, please dont nerf it noooo!

toolboi
04-16-2002, 04:56 AM
The best solution is to simply remove drain entirely from the game.

This would give the light jedi SUCH a huge advantage. Now Im the first to admit that using drain in combination with other force (grip, lightning) is INSANELY cheap, but it seems to me that theres a ton of light jedi complaining its cheap because all ofa sudden they cant heal.
Do you know how cheap heal is? 2 (or is it 3?) points of force for 50 life? C'mon people, thats as cheap as you get. It more or less ruins saber duels unless you have drain because unless you can get a one hit kill (red stance) you cant do anything. This is also what created Paladin players (red stance+heal) which is becoming oh so prevalent in duel servers, players who just swing and heal hoping to hit and make a one hit kill.

Trienco
04-16-2002, 07:05 AM
heal needs to be slowed or whatever but one argument i really dont understand is: 'we need drain, its our healing power'

so what? where's the light sides damage dealing power?
dark side: heal, damage
light side: heal
make heal AND drain less powerful and it might work.

=GrimM=
04-16-2002, 07:22 AM
Drain and heal are both cheap. The hole healing aspect should be chucked, like was said b4. I only play duel, so force power is not a big deal for me, they can drain all they want/ I'll just absorb. Which means that they cant heal. To me heal is a lot worst than drain.

At least with drain, you cant heal indefinetly. Healers will run and hid until they can heal and that really pisses me off. It forces me to use the strong stance, and HATE using that stance. But at least it makes them feel stupid. after all that running away he come back at full health just so I can strike him down with one blow.

h71y6
04-16-2002, 07:34 AM
I've been playing this game since the beginning, and i'm a pretty decent saberist. I'm a light jedi btw. In the beginning, drain seemed overwhelming but not anymore. If you're a good saberist, and you know the niches, it's not too difficult to handle. Granted against a good dark sider, it's 50-50 on the outcome of the match, but it wouldn't be fair if it wasn't. The one thing drainers don't realise is that when they drain, they are very open to attack, and if you're quick, you can cut him up pretty good. I never heal unless my opponent heals or drains. I myself loathe healers more than drainers. They just run around and heal every time they get hit. For a guy who favors medium stance, it takes so much longer to kill them. I just switch to heavy and kill them quick. Drain is overpowered in FFA, but not too much in duels. Grip is the most overated. Anyone how uses grip frequently is well.. untested. Against a dark sider, yes it's good, but against a light, it's useless and dangerous. My advice is, if you think your opponent is a drainer, you have to strike the moment he drains. Don't wait. If he's going to take your force away, might as well give them a price to pay. A heavy stance here is best. The wound you inflict when they drain will be too large for them to recover in a short time, and now that you don't have force, they can't heal. They can grip you, but they won't kill you with full health, and by then all you need is one good medium strike and he's dead.

moby323
04-16-2002, 07:37 AM
I agree drain is too powerful. If it was just downgraded a bit then it would be ok

stellerwinds
04-16-2002, 09:57 AM
I think I might have it.

just remove personal heal for team heal
but make sure team heal works like the sp rules for heal, you gota kneel at lvl 1 and so on

then for drain make a mode like absorb and protection are-
only while drain is on, any damage you do to anyone else is transfered straight to your health
sort of like a vampiric power
which i think is way more sith-like anyway

so
end result is that light users cant heal themselves but retain their team-heal option, dark users can only heal themselves by doing harm with lightsaber or lightning or grip in combonation while having drain on

how does that sound?

of course then in duels the dark user has a slight advantage if he hits you while drain is on, but since he cant drain your force energy the same way anymore you can use absorb and protect to better negate that

Darksider
04-16-2002, 10:34 AM
I think alot of the power of drain would be taken out if it affected a single target only. I can go from 1 health to 100 in less than 2 seconds if there is 3 or more people in the near area.

RedHerring
04-16-2002, 12:28 PM
This thread has just turned from a suggestion to a drain arguement. I say that running away and Meditating to regain mana and keeping Drain the same.

Since I doubt this will happen, I will release my tactic for dealing with drainers:
If you have a decent gun (Repeater, Bowcaster, Disrupter) then if they start to drain you, fill them with "lead". Thermal Detonators also work well. I'm pretty sure that you can't block if you're using a force power but if you can, then here's another solution: Charge them with your saber. Give them a good hack or two and then they realize they're defenseless. Or, if they keep on backing up and draining while your chasing, the you back away and run as well.

Darksider
04-16-2002, 12:30 PM
Heh im not arguing for the reduction of drain, i love drain and ill be annoyed if drain is reduced in power, theres nothing wrong with the powers as they are, they are all balanced. you dont win 100% of the time because its balanced. Argh. Dont change the powers! Create a server and restrict drain or whatever....

Sartis
04-16-2002, 03:48 PM
You can't just say 'nerf drain and heal and things will be fair' hell no that just means its so much easier to put up absorb making you somewhat invincible to my opinion.

I find it funny the same people complaining are the ones who run away and heal, or brag about absorb making dark users useless. The forces are perfectly balanced right now, I'm sorry if you don't win all the time, dark users don't either. Like someone else said if there is anything thats unbalanced its heal.

Here are some suggestions if a drainer comes, and you know he drains snap on absorb quickly, if he doesn't drain then take it off, if you ever see red turn it on. OR run like hell away and only attack that person by surprise. Personally lately there is alot of smart Light side users making Drain not as effective as it was the first week, so I really don't know why people are complaining unless they spend more time out of game on here than in game finding counters and working to keep themselves alive with they're force.

Kurgan
04-16-2002, 04:26 PM
Using absorb to counter drain is important because, while it denies YOU mana, it denies the Dark Jedi HEALING, which makes all the difference.

And true, I've been in plenty of fights where drain didn't change the outcome. But still... it's the same thing as guarding the health packs/bacta spawnpoints.. deny your enemy a means to heal, and he's weakened, ripe for the fraggin' ; )

Flash25
04-16-2002, 09:01 PM
Isn't the whole point of the dark side the quick aquisition of power? The dark side is easy and powerful. The light side takes a little more work, but is ultimately more powerful. There is nothing that the dark side can throw at the light side that it can't counter. The light side just has to work harder, but is better off in the end, IMO.

The most unbalancing feature I have found is the strong lightsabre stance. There is the illusion of balance in the speed of the swing, in the hands of an experienced user it is almost unstoppable. I've seen people rule servers with the quick or medium stance, and then a player experienced in the strong stance will show up and wipe the floor with them.

The problem seems to be the strength of the attacks. I don't really see how swinging a lightsabre harder will make it more damaging. It shouldn't take much effort to slice through something with a lightsabre, and any more effort should be overkill. You get a far superior advantage in reach and damage while giving a bit of speed that can be easily made up for in position and tactic.

Personally, I think that all lightsabre strikes should do the same amount of damage to a given body part. As it stands right now, I think, a resting lightsabre in the hands of someone in the strong stance will do more damage than a resting sabre in the other stances. What I mean by that is, if you don't swing and just turn and place your sabre into another player, it does more damage than the other stances. This also goes for the sabre as it returns to the ready position. I commonly see someone use a strong attack, the defender dodge, and as the sabre is coming back up to the ready position, the attacker just turns and kills the defender. This makes a decently skilled strong stance user dominant in both close and long range situations.

don01
04-16-2002, 10:02 PM
I have no gripe with people who use drain or any drain/grip/lightning combo. However I do believe that drain itself is a bit too powerful.

From what I have seen, one or two hits with drain will completely wipe the other guy's force pool, while keeping absorb up drains the user's force as well, unless the Dark Jedi is stupid enough to keep trying to grip/lightning a blue aura'd Light Jedi. (Which ain't often.)

I try to counter drain and drain/grip/lightning with speed, absorb and push/pull, but that's not always an option in the tighter space maps and not at all if the Dark Jedi lands a drain. I think drain should work like absorb and drain the victim's force, but much more SLOWLY... forcing the Dark Jedi to either use it longer while keeping out of range, or use it with more cunning and finess.

Lucas said the dark side is quicker, easier, and more seductive, not more powerful. As it is, one drain hit leaves Light Jedi with basically no force ability to counter any follow up move a Dark Jedi makes. Light Jedi get stuck with only saber skills, and not even a saber throw option. Basic saber skills are useless if the Dark Jedi wants to grip or use lightning.

Gavin DiThon

Sontarian
04-16-2002, 10:33 PM
DID YOU EVER MET A SONO******CH that drains your mana always and dont fights you with saber and all he does os drain,flee and lightning.Did you ever met a guy like that.The main problem is not DRAIN te main problem is "HOW CAN A MAN RUNS BACKWARDS LIKE HELL?!".I cannot not catch some players that drain my mana and run away like cowards cause I cannot use force without mana.As i said running backwards is too fast in the game.AND STOP SAYING DRAIN IS TOO POWERFUL...BLA BLA BLA.I always use DRAIN but I never flee from my opponent like a sonof****ch,the lightside has heailing and for the balance the dark side has DRAIN.If you would have been fought with a lightside player that ALWAYS ALWAYS USES HEALING then you wuould say like this :"HEALING IS UNBALANCED" STOP SAYING STUPID THINGS and improve yourself and thing about the problem I wrote.If anyone tires to understand the situation I wrote then e-mail me and I can show you how you become mad for a coward that always uses drain and flees from you and slmiles to you when running backwards.

don01
04-16-2002, 11:15 PM
Fine,

I agree, its not the power itself, its how its used. However there will ALWAYS be people who use it that way, in fact the GREAT majority will use it that way SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY CAN.

People simply rush up, drain the Light Jedi then lightning/grip the guy to death or run like mad so you can't catch them!! I have YET to run into a Dark Jedi who simply drains then treats me to a fair saber fight with no other power. The ONLY way to counter these brats is to Speed/Absorb immediately before the Dark Jedi drains, and hope you can hack the guy before your force runs out!!

Sheesh, just nerf BOTH drain AND heal so that when used, NO OTHER FORCE POWER can be used for at least 10 seconds!! That will nerf ALL of the cheap tactics!!

Gavin

Odyssey Wing
04-17-2002, 01:32 AM
well, all i can say is... if u cant beat them, join them

come... and join the dark side, muhahahaha!!!!!

BunnyTea
04-17-2002, 10:44 AM
absorb counters drain, true. but if u get zapped u're pretty mcuh out of force... i could keep absorb on all the time but that depletes my mana (and keeps me from using other forces much) while a smart dark jedi would just wait till my absorb runs out and then dish out all the pain he can with his full force pool while i wait for my mana to slowly recharge...

dont take drain out but make it drain at a more resonable rate so the lgiht jedi can at least react to it...

Kreidian
04-17-2002, 04:55 PM
I personally think Drain is too easy and too powerful. It makes sense for a dak jedi, but it is a bit unbalancing. So I think it should be tweaked a bit, but not completely nerfed.

I'm thinking that Drain should either cost more force to use or take longer to drain. Both of these would make more sense and make it more balanced. Another option would be to leave drain alone, but make it so that absorb at level 3 costs nothing to activate. It will still cost mana to keep up, but to ativate it initially would cost nothing at that level. This I think makes alot more sense. That way the dark sider can drain all he wants, as is appropriate for the dark side, but a skilled light sider will always be able to counter teh inevitable grip lightning or whatever with absorb. The reason why this would work and remain balanced is because the only way to take advantage of the free activation of absorb is if you are already being attacked by a force power, otherwise there is nothing to absorb, and without force you cannot maintain absorb. This will force the light jedi to use the absorb carefully, and more importantly, a skilled dark sider will still be able to use drain and other force powers just as effectively so long as they tactically careful not to allow the light sider a chance to use absorb effectively.

As it stand now, a skilled light sider is able to easily defend against drain, but he has to be extremely careful. You can't have absorb on all the time, but you can try to bait the dark sider with it. A tactic I've used often is to come in and turn absorb on just before I attack. A dark sider will often back off waiting for me to turn off my absorb so he can drain me. So rather than waste the force, I turn off absorb... then turn it back on right away. Often I can bait the darksider into trying to drain me or even try to use some other force power. Either way he'll leave himself open to my attack. The main problem remains that using these tactics is rather difficult, while using drain/brip combo is pitifully easy by comparision.

ShorTerM
04-18-2002, 02:22 AM
Well... From my limited experience with drain I agree that it is a very powerful skill... I also agree that it should be nerfed...

I do not agree with most of the suggestions thus far however... I prefer using the dark skills as opposed to the light ones, and because of this drain is my friend... Although I prefer duelling with no force at all, and when I can that is what I do... However, if force is allowed I usually load up on drain and suck the force power out of both of us... If the guy decides to stick his head between his legs and run I will lightning/grip him during his escape... Although I prefer it when they just stick around and duke it out saber style...

What I would propose for a nerf of drain is...

1) Drain the drainers mana as fast as it drains the person being drained...
2) Heal the drainer at a slower rate...

I feel that is all that is needed to balance this skill out... I mean sure the scales are tipped right now and drain is overpowered, but the suggestions from you guys to heal light jedi's and do all kinds of nifty stuff for the light side will just throw the scales in the opposite direction...

Heh, it is fun sometimes sheathing your saber and trying to win through exclusive use of force, ie drain/lightning/grip mostly...

Kuroshi
04-18-2002, 02:55 AM
Obviously what needs to be done is this:

1. Weaken drain. It's just too powerful. It shouldn't drain my force while raising his, that's stupid, absorb does that. It shouldn't heal him so fast either, it's like, almost instantaneous, so unfair.

2. Get rid of grip *****s. I mean, please. With this power the game only turns into a grip fest, there's nothing you can do as a light jedi, you have to turn to dark to win.

3. Lightning is too strong, it needs to be toned down some. It should do maybe 1 hit point a second.

4. Something should be done about dark rage, it does too much at once. Maybe if it only sped up their movement like force speed, and sapped their hp faster.

5. We need to get rid of those auras that absorb and protect give off, and let you use both at the same time, too.

---end sarcasm---

R3mmus
04-18-2002, 08:33 AM
Dunno if someone's mentioned this, but aren't Dark Jedi suppossed to be more powerful than the lightside? Otherwise what would be the lure of the darkside? Turn evil and get your ass kicked?! No, don't think so. Jedi turn to the darkside because it promises them power, more than the lightside offers. It's kind of a become-more-powerful-but-sacrifice-your-morals thing.

Obviously tho i can see how this would be unfair in gaming terms, but hey, deal with it! :jawa

*T¥RANITH*
04-18-2002, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by Flash25


The problem seems to be the strength of the attacks. I don't really see how swinging a lightsabre harder will make it more damaging. It shouldn't take much effort to slice through something with a lightsabre, and any more effort should be overkill. You get a far superior advantage in reach and damage while giving a bit of speed that can be easily made up for in position and tactic.


I think the idea behind this is that the red stance batters through defenses, which does more damage BECASE it hits them more. I know what u mean, but I think that's why they did it.

*T¥RANITH*
04-18-2002, 09:21 AM
This drain/grip combo which everyone is talking about?
I'm guessing they mean drain them of force and then grip them so they can't counter it?
Well u can still counter it, grip only does a tiny amount of damage until the end of the attack when it crushes ur throat. By that time ur mana pool will have recharged enough for a well aimed push which removes them from you...
I don't see what all of the fuss is about :P
Unless of course they chuck you off buildings... but then I never really play FFA, mostly duels. And also, grip+drain in FFA leave u totally open to firearm attacks...

ArtifeX
04-18-2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by *T¥RANITH*
This drain/grip combo which everyone is talking about?
I'm guessing they mean drain them of force and then grip them so they can't counter it?
Well u can still counter it, grip only does a tiny amount of damage until the end of the attack when it crushes ur throat. By that time ur mana pool will have recharged enough for a well aimed push which removes them from you...
I don't see what all of the fuss is about :P
Unless of course they chuck you off buildings... but then I never really play FFA, mostly duels. And also, grip+drain in FFA leave u totally open to firearm attacks...

If you drain someone down to nothing then you can get the final crush grip damage in before their mana can regenerate. This is more of a problem in duels than in FFA games, as you don't have to worry about getting shot in the back. The exception would be when they use grip to throw you off a ledge--not much time to react there no matter how much force you have.

still, i don't mind grip at all. it's getting to the point where a drainer doesn't bother me either, because I just drain them first. Still, it'd be awfully nice to have other (practical--no, absorb is not practical) defense options vs. drain.

I think what ought to be done with drain is have a delay between when you first hit the key and when it actually starts draining your target. During that delay, the drainer's had would glow red as a warning of what's coming. That would give you a chance to either get out of the way or use Absorb. Seems to me that would be damn simple to implement, and wouldn't require too much readjustment of tactics for those who use drain or those who want to defend against it.

*T¥RANITH*
04-18-2002, 02:24 PM
Hmm maybe ur right, although i'm pretty sure people have shoved me when i drained em first (yes i'll admit i have used the drain/grip thing) although if you are playing a duel with force then presumably u are allowed to chuck ur saber.
I find that I can get one throw in when they start draining, has 2 advantages
1.Hurts them enough that they can't drain all their hp back
2.Makes ur force less, so they regain less hp

I think drain is not the problem, it is the people that use it annoyingly right at the start of a fight and continue to zap u slightly with it, which means no more force for u in that fight unless u can get away (hard in duels)

Also, if you 'tap' the drain key, you can deprive them completely of mana for the rest of the battle, while letting yours regenerate (albiet slowly)
Imo u should definitely not be able to do this.
The drain problem could possibly be sorted by making the force drain and their force drain a 1:1 ratio. So that if your mana runs out from healing, so does theirs. This would stop people being so ready to use drain at the start of the fight, would stop them keep using it (unless they want a NF duel) also it would remove the ability to use drain/grip

tomservo51
04-19-2002, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by Pseudofun
I think if somebody uses drain on someone using absorb, the drainers force should be sucked out of him as fast as it would be sucked out of a drain victim..and perhaps give the absorbed jedi a slight increase in force power..

^_^

I agree. Maybe give the light Jedi Force Reflect instead of absorb work work

BotD
04-19-2002, 05:00 AM
2 changes need to be done:
A)Make Drain heal slower or us more of the drainers force. As it is you can drain all their force and still ahve enough to grip them.
B)Make absorb work against drain to punish the foolhardy Dark side players that use it on a blue person.

And heal is ntohign compared to drain. As drain can suck person(s) dry of force and heal them to full hp instantly for a fraction of the cost of mana. Anyways grip is easily countered and I never get thrown off anymore.

SnowMongoose
04-19-2002, 06:42 AM
I think that the problem would go away if a few things were tweaked..

like...
absorb....doesnt!
absorb sucks ass...it needs to cost less force, or get back more force...or both

Drain is broken...end of story.
Face it, dark has all the good attack spells.....

bah... no more multi for me until I find a foolproof way of beating those no skil grip/drain/lightning *****s

Snow

R3mmus
04-19-2002, 08:27 AM
I've got an idea, why don't you strip the Dark Jedi of all the darkside powers and double the strength and halve the cost of the lightside powers. Then will all you b****ing cry babys be happy?

There are plenty of ways to counter Drain/grip, so learn them! You say the people who use Drain/grip/lightening have no skill, but in reality it's YOU that has no skill cos you can't find a way round it and resort to petty whinging.

I play as Dark Side, i use drain - it's a good tactic. My friend plays as Light Side and we duel nearly every day. He has no problem with me using drain and he beats me as much as i beat him.

Dago
04-19-2002, 02:42 PM
People defened Drian, becuase they are the people who suck and use it...

gaeb
04-19-2002, 04:14 PM
Rather, people call for Drain Nerf, because they suck and can't counter it...

-----------

I play dark side. I actually got forced onto a _light_ side team last night because of autobalance and force sides. That was my first time EVER playing with light side powers. I had the top score for the three games I played. (Team FFA)

That was after coming out of a game where I had the BOTTOM score while using the dark side, for six or seven straight games. MikeZedi, Rogue47(???), and MrPincher DESTROYED me. They were _ALL_ light side users, and most of those destructions (especially Pincher) were one on one. If I was too close when I drained, they'd close and kill me. Saber to saber, I just got owned. If I tried gripping and tossing them off of ledges, they'd absorb it and keep coming while I was recovering from grip. Weapons were enabled (I kept stealing them, for some reason my opponents were never considerate enough to give me any weapons with ammo... :vadar: sheesh!) and that were probably the only reason I got ANY kills. *hugs Flechette Gun and Rocket Launcher*

I'm pretty good, and I don't fear routine ownage from dark side users. I look out for the light side. They're MUCH more dangerous, because with no range attacks (grip, lightning, drain) they need to rely on their footwork and saber skills. And they know all about the recovery lag that grip, drain, and lightning have... and take advantage of it.

Incidentally, during my team matches for the light side, I loved using Mind Trick. That power is vastly underused IMO. It's VERY cheap for cost, too. I got a couple of kills just for sneaking up behind people and chopping them in half, or turning a corner, going invisible, then blasting or chopping them as they looked around confusedly.

/longwinded ranting and babbling off

Drain is powerful. But the light side, properly used, can counter it.

- Gaeb