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muchafraid
04-23-2000, 07:18 AM
Star Wars is an amazing movie, I like it for two main reasons, one – special effects and lightsabers rule, two – there is a depth to the movies unlike others

look at the aspects to the movie,

‘the force’ – it is everywhere, in everything, it tells you its will, it guides you and can even protect you, you could contrast it to say a god or something of that sort,

‘Jedi Knights’ – a disciplined order who defend the innocent and are the peace keepers of the galaxy, compared to a ‘holy warrior’ defending a belief, the knights themselves from the Middle Ages,

good vs. evil – the constant struggle between good and evil, never really stops, even after EP6 there is said to be three more episodes, throughout history there has always a struggle between good and evil, and it never will stop until Christ return,

there is so many things that are interwoven into Star Wars, its mythological in a sense, with its own history, its own order so to speak,

its just, these are a few of things I enjoy seeing in the movie, it provides a unique and interesting way to view things, let me know what you think,

muchafraid

Conor
04-23-2000, 06:32 PM
I agree, the reason I first liked Star Wars was because it wasn't total Sci-Fi. I don't really like a lot of that stuff, but I do like fantasy. SW had a lot of that, what with the magic and sword fighting.

It really ticked me off when Lucas introduced those midichlorians in Ep1. I think he took a great deal of the fantasy aspect I always liked out of it.

That idiotic 'virgin birth' nonsense with Anakin didn't impress me either. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/frown.gif

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"First, that human beings, all over the earth, have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it. Secondly, that they do not in fact behave in that way. They know the Law of Nature; they break it. These two facts are the foundation of all clear thinking about ourselves and the universe we live in."
-C.S. Lewis

BeastMaster
04-26-2000, 05:06 PM
Me too.

I can rationalize the midichlorians by opining that they're an indicator of Force potential, not the key to the Force itself (the Jedi have been wrong before, after all).

The 'virgin birth' routine is just plain silly. I'd chalk it up to Shmi trying to keep a secret from Qui-gon (like the identity of Annie's father), but the fact that Qui-gon actually repeats the story to the Council and they buy it just ruins the whole suspension of disbelief.

Quoting from a Usenet discussion:
Although, if you want to impress a handsome Jedi Knight with your purity, you can always feed him a line about having a virgin birth.
Can't remember who said that, but I did notice that Qui-gon and Shmi made a cute couple.

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"The Beasts know much that we do not." -Ancient Jedi proverb

Hannibal
04-26-2000, 05:15 PM
Maybe Annie's mom is a drinker and she just doesnt want to admit that his father could be one of many space pilots. You know, the ones who taught anakin about the angels.

wizzywig
04-26-2000, 05:56 PM
I second muchafraid's enjoyment of the movie, and for much the same reasons--the mythological resonance of it all, the brilliant visual execution of it all, the grand scale (shades of every great epic from The Lord of the Rings to Ben-Hur).

I, too, was troubled by the virgin birth. There is no question that Lucas intends it to be taken as a literal fact in the plotline. Annakin WAS born of a virgin.

Lucas himself was raised in the Christian tradition (the Methodist church, I believe) before settling into New Age beliefs--the dualism of the Force is not a mere plot device for him; on some level, he largely believes it. By co-opting the Christian truth of the virgin birth as a plot device in his film, he corrupted the meaning of it.

The virgin birth of Christ demonstrates that Jesus had no earthly father, which establishes His credentials as the perfect God-Man. A purely human "son of Adam" would be blemished by the human sin nature, and would therefore be unfit to be the sacrifice for the sins of the world upon the cross. Only by being sinless (by virtue of the virgin birth) could Jesus make a full atonement for humanity's sin. That is the meaning of the virgin birth.

Lucas takes this powerful and meaningful Christian truth and applies it to the birth of a boy who will grow up to be Darth Vader, the dreaded symbol of the Dark Side, sin incarnate. Thus, Lucas stands the meaning of the virgin birth on its head. Yes, Vader will eventually turn from the Dark Side, redeem himself by sacrificing his own life, and thus bring the Force back into balance, but he is clearly not a symbol of sinless perfection.

The Christian virgin birth is a credential of the fact that God is Jesus's Father. What does the Star Wars virgin birth betoken? Who or what is Annakin's father? Lucas does not say in Episode 1, and I doubt he will reveal any more detail than he already has.

Still, though I have gone on about it at length, it is only a minor distraction to me when I view the film.

--wiz



[This message has been edited by wizzywig (edited April 26, 2000).]

Zoom Rabbit
04-26-2000, 08:13 PM
Zoom Rabbit's vote concerning these matters:

Midichlorians--Silly. I recall reading somewhere that a certain amount of consciousness has been discovered at the cellular level, but I don't think George was talking about that. It seems as if he's trying to separate God out of the equation by ascribing the Force to these little critters. Sheer silliness.

Anakin's pure birth--Ridiculous. As Wiz states more eloquently, a pure birth means a messiah...and Darth Vader ain't no messiah! I, too, think Shmi got 'shmacked-up' by a space pilot. Me, for example.

The rest of it--Thumbs up. Check out my 'Way of the Jedi' post for a full detailing of my thoughts concerning the Jedi.

http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/biggrin.gif

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

muchafraid
04-27-2000, 04:22 AM
Why does Lucas has a virgin birth, as said before, it ain’t because he is some Messiah. It could be just as was said in the movie,

There was no father, I carried him, gave birth to him.

Who knows? All I know is that maybe Lucas could have found a better way to introduce Anakin. Another good movie maybe to compare this to is ‘The Matrix’. That movie is one of the most… I don’t know what the word is but… It has a lot of religion mixed with someone’s own ideas how ‘it’ is. Amazing these days.

One last point, no matter how people write, make movies, about any kind of religion, always check it with the Bible, great reference source. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif

muchafraid

wizzywig
04-27-2000, 04:36 AM
http://userzweb.lightspeed.net/jdenney/thumbsup.gif

BigBud
04-27-2000, 05:31 AM
Hmmm

toms
04-27-2000, 01:55 PM
i read somewhere that there seems to be a universal story that has appeared in all cultures around the world for centuries.

something along the lines of:
poor boy, has adventure, faces evil, dicovers secret, finally defeats evil, happy ending.

ok, it was a few years ago and i made the above up from memory, but i think i read that lucas did a study of it at film school and basically the classic trillogy is an adaption of these universal myths.
which is why it struck such a chord with everyone.

oh, and aren't there supposed to be things in cells called something like that sounds VERY similar to midichlorians.
lucas has obviously gotten more obsessed with biology/science than mythology/storytelling in the last decade. probably a result of locking himself up and not directing.

wizzywig
04-27-2000, 03:09 PM
http://cellbio.utmb.edu/cellbio/mitmor4.jpg

"Mitochondria are the cells' power sources. They are distinct organelles with two membranes. Usually they are rod-shaped, however they can be round. The outer membrane limits the organelle. This electron micrograph, taken from A Textbook of Histology, Chapman and Hall, 12th edition, 1994, shows the organization of the two membranes."

--wiz

muchafraid
04-27-2000, 03:15 PM
Good point. Lucas must have lost something in the translation. Who knows?

muchafraid

Obiwon15
04-27-2000, 08:25 PM
About the whole virgin mother thing, in corasount in the jedi temple Qui Gon said to mace that he was made by the medichloreans and thats why he had no father

"I am a jedi like my father before me"

Hannibal
04-27-2000, 08:32 PM
Obiwon15 make your thoughts clearer. The helper monkey translating this for me gets confused easily.

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Potential Man-eating vice-president of the Un-Council

Zoom Rabbit
04-27-2000, 10:03 PM
Don't confuse poor Hannibal. Those elephants were heavy, and now it's the twenty-first century and you can buy a plastic card from a machine that entitles you to get on another machine and talk to absolutely anyone in the world (provided you know the proper numeral string associated with that person.) I think he's doing well as it is.

Moccasins? *!* No, these are seal ears, tanned and stitched up with their whiskers. I DON'T CARE IF YOU LIKE!!!

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

Obiwon15
04-27-2000, 11:00 PM
To make it more clear for you I ment in the part where he was talking to the council he refered to the prophecy of the on who bring balanced to the force he said that Anikan had a hi medichlorean count and that it appeared he was created by the medichloreans and thats why he didnt have a father.

"I am a jedi like my father before me"

Hannibal
04-27-2000, 11:02 PM
Ahhh, excellent! Good point.