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Jigga-Man-Windu
05-01-2000, 11:55 PM
Why is it that Luke seemed only able to defeat his father in ROTJ when he unleashed his anger for those crucial minuets??

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Jedi Mace Windu
"You speak of the one that will bring balance to the force,..You believe it's this boy?"

wizzywig
05-02-2000, 01:48 AM
Yeah. Same with Obi-wan v. Darth Maul in Episode One.

'Sup wit dat? I thought releasing your anger/hate in battle was a big Jedi no-no.

--wiz

Qui-Wan Kenn
05-02-2000, 04:43 AM
Well as yoda said in ep.1

"fear leads to anger
anger leads to hate
hate lead to suffering"


and that is the path to the dark side.
But luke didn't defeat vader(his father)the deathstar did, he try to save him and show vader that he had some good in him. but there is lots of anger wend the luke in return of the jedi and wend obi-wan fought in ep.1 at the end w/ darth maul.

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this has been another post by: Qui-Wan Kenn

The Baron
05-04-2000, 09:17 PM
I think however much they try, they have to get angry. They just can't get around it. As Machievelli said, "man is evil". Now we're talking about Star Wars, but it can apply. The hate that they generte leads to suffering, the suffering of the dark side. Its paradoxal but a good point.

Orbvs_Terrarvm
05-04-2000, 10:19 PM
Well Luke almost destroyed his father because of his hate in those last crucial moments. Thats why the Emperer was so happy with Luke because they were finally bringing him over to the Dark side(since he had controlled his fear they wanted him to release his anger). If you notice thats when Luke looked at his robotic hand and realised he was becoming like his father. Disgusted with it he threw away his lightsaber I declared himself a Jedi. So in a way, he almost won using his anger but in the end his belief in his father saved him.

DarthMace
05-04-2000, 10:43 PM
<font color="red"> good point

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DarthMace the evil twin of JediMace master of both the ligthtdagger and lightsaber

Dark lord of the Sith Order

Qui-Wan Kenn
05-05-2000, 05:12 AM
your right Baron all man is evil i dont care who you are or from what galaxy or anything like that. everything that is a alive has hate but showing it and/or useing it is all up the thing.

and your are right Orbvs_Terrarvm luke did take a step to the dark side and did go back. and i was wrong and right luke did defeat he father in a way but the deathstar did distory vader for good.

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this has been another post by: Qui-Wan Kenn

BeastMaster
05-05-2000, 03:15 PM
I think its a foregone conclusion that the Dark Side does make a Jedi stronger, more powerful than he/she/it could be in the LIght.

The problem is that the Dark Side is inherently destructive (Luke would've become a pawn of the Emperor if he'd continued, and Obi-wan would be at the bottom of a very deep pit). The Dark Side is like a drug; it enhances your abilities, but it also extracts a great price. Someone once likened the Dark Side's effects to a cancer, that gradually weakens you until you give yourself totally to Darkness.

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"The Beasts know much that we do not." -Ancient Jedi proverb

Ikhnaton
05-05-2000, 03:36 PM
hate cannot grow. hate is an absence of love. hate is not something in and of itself, it is merely a lack of a positive thing. In reality, it is nothingness and hs no control over you.

ChoKoth
05-05-2000, 05:25 PM
Hate CAN grow, very easily. Even with it only being the lack of love.

As love is diminished, hate grows, simple as that

wizzywig
05-05-2000, 05:39 PM
I'm surprised at the idea that hate is not a thing, that it is only an absence of love.

To me an absence of love is apathy and uncaring. Hate is an aggressive, destructive emotion that has its own dynamic power, just as love has its own dynamic power.

It seems obvious to me that hate and love are opposing ends of a single spectrum. Hate is at -10, apathy is at 0, and love is at +10.

There are people who have hate as the central pillar of their personality, and they are not just lacking in love, they are aggressively destructive people.

--wiz



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"God never wrought a miracle to convince atheism
because his ordinary works convince it."
--FRANCIS BACON (1551-1626)

Orbvs_Terrarvm
05-05-2000, 05:58 PM
Good point. I would list your scale as a triangle. With each point being either love,hate, or apathy. Each point is the opposite of the other.
Because I see apathy as the opposite of love and hate. Because even when you hate you at least care enough about it to hate in the first place.
I will print this diagram and demand $30,000 per lecture on it at all the prestigius universities around the world and make millions of dollars. And spend my fortune carelessly like putting hydralics on Walmart shopping carts so I can lowride while I shop.
Muhahahahah! Muahahahahahah!
NO mom I don't know what happend to the air pressure in the RediWhip cans......

Ikhnaton
05-05-2000, 09:05 PM
wiz, but evil and vices and whatnot are not actually things. evil is defined as a lack of a due good. How can a lack actually be something?

take the example of darkness and light. darkness is absence of light. darkness cannot grow on its own, it depends on the light to diminish for it to grow. So it is with vices. Vices are lacks of virtues.

Xyst
05-06-2000, 12:43 AM
I think the only reason luke beat vader was because vader said that leia would turn to the dark side and luke got mad and whooped him.

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"The Dark Side.Hard to see it is"

darthjustin69
05-06-2000, 05:20 AM
man my sig is not working i need help!!

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&lt;font size=4&gt;... "You are no match for me weak Jedi"

&lt;body text=ff3300&gt;DARK LORD OF THE SITH MASTER
Sith Order Member

lightbulba
05-06-2000, 09:35 PM
do you find it absolutely neccesary to crash threads to suit your own needs? are you so bent on being the center of attention that you need to grace your every thought with an overly gaudy visual trademark? do you understand a word i'm saying here? perhaps, if you had gotten proper schooling, you would have come to master both proper grammar and social interaction skills, but as that is but a flight of fancy, we will willingly suffer under your heartless command, knowing our measures of enforcing "boundaries" and "limits" have been of no avail.

that is all.
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[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited May 06, 2000).]

muchafraid
05-07-2000, 09:21 AM
Maybe to simply answer the question based purely upon the Jedi Code, as it reads: To use the Force, the Jedi must remain at harmony with it. To act in dissonance depletes one's power.
The Force is created and sustained by life. The Jedi acts to preserve life. To kill is wrong.
Yet it is often necessary to kill. The Jedi may kill in self-defense or the defense of others. You may kill if, by doing so, life is preserved.
But you must know, always, that killing is wrong. When you kill, you commit a crime against the Force. Though you may know that you do so for the greater good, and the greater good justifies your act, you must also know that the death remains as a stain upon your spirit.
The Jedi does not act for personal gain, of wealth or of power. You must act to gain knowledge; to sustain freedom, life, and learning; to defeat those who would impose tyranny, death and ignorance.
Sometimes, wealth or power is needed to achieve the Jedi's goals. Money is required for the purchase of goods; power is required to obtain the help of others. To achieve one's goals, a Jedi may obtain wealth or power, but is not interested in it for its own sake, and will surrender it once those goals are achieved.
A Jedi never acts from hatred, anger, fear or aggression. A Jedi must act when calm, at peace with the Force. To act from anger is to court the Dark Side, to risk everything for which the Jedi stand. Now why I do not fully agree with all of this, this is what he the ‘Jedi Code’ says. Maybe that helps?

muchafraid

[This message has been edited by muchafraid (edited May 07, 2000).]