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View Full Version : double-sided sabers and 2 sabers. maybe idea for part of a patch.


d4rth_b0b4
04-19-2002, 12:45 AM
i was thinkin maybe in a future patch we should have the ability to use a double sided saber or 2 sabers (like anakin in AotC). The catch for this is that it would cost extra force points to use these. and for SP we should have like a level 4 saber attack to use 2 sabers. so if we are fighting multiple reborn or somethin, we can kill one and then pull his saber to u and start the OWNIN. that would be pretty cool in my opinion. im sure other ppl would like this idea too. well yall post ur opinion on this subject (doesnt matter if its good or bad, i just need an opinion. :P)

d4rth
:guard: :fett: :guard:

P.S. i hope raven ppl will come in here and check my idea.

Pseudonym
04-19-2002, 12:57 AM
There was also that Dark-Jedi in JK1 that had 2 swords. Boc or something like that.
And since Obi-Wan could beat Darth Maul, and Kyle could beat Boc, I donít think there would be a very big balance issue that is too hard to deal with either.

Darthtoast
04-19-2002, 02:18 AM
I doubt you're the first one to post something like this, and I'm sure that they've received many e-mails regarding the same topic. I'm not a programmer, but I'm pretty sure that it would require a lot of work to put in dual lightsabers and lightsaber staff.

Plan9
04-19-2002, 05:17 AM
Yeah, to make them anywhere near as effective as one saber they would need entire new animation sets, thats alot of work. And to top it all off, they would need to be balanced - otherwise 2 saber users would pretty much just own...well, everyone, right?
Same goes for the saber staff. Although they do have SOME animations, in order for it to be effective, they'd need to add alot more. And again, balance would be an issue.

obijonkenobi
04-19-2002, 05:29 AM
If they do a expansion pack, instead of new guns, they should have new sabres. A lightstaff and a dual sabres as new weapons.

Have new keys bound to them too for eg:
"1" - Lightsabre
"2" - Lightstaff
"3" - Dual sabres

Raven would surely be able to code the 5 stances (2 secret ones included in that "5") for the two new sabre-class weapons and the moves to suit the two styles of lightsabre.

I'd pay money for the expansion just on that alone! Anything else would be a bonus. But of course if they did do that then they would obviously have new missions and stuff.

Something else would be sweet... You know how you can have 6 sabre colours? How about differant sabre hilt designs too? I noticed Luke in SP has a hilt he used in the RotJ movie. So perhaps you could have the option to use the other hilt designs from the various movies?

DarthMark
04-19-2002, 09:28 AM
theyve got a duel saber already, but the animations are the same, so it looks like the other end of the saber goes through u
i wanna c 2 lightsabers like boc had, but i dont want to jump as much as him

different lightsabers would b very cool
id also like to see different holding styles like the woman from jedi power battles who holds it backwards

obijonkenobi
04-19-2002, 10:15 AM
While the double blade staff is in it, it is still using 1blade moves.

In Ep1 Darth Maul's moves when using two blades is completly differant to single-blade moves (dont want to cut yourself in half) so if a Lightstaff was to be released in a new expansion, there would have to be new moves for it as you dont want to kill yourself and having the sabre pass through you looks poor on the programmers behalf.

Also you'd need new moves for the two sabres as you have a second hand to swing. And blocking could entail using the two sabres crossed over to form a "V" which stops the incoming sabre. :)

Holding your sabre upside down would be pretty good to use as an extra sabre stance too! So now we would have three stances for the Lightsaff, 6 stances (very light*, light, medium, mid-heavy**, heavy, and upsidedown) for the single blade and the same stances for the double blade! Each of the three types with there own moves.

That would kick absolutely ass!

* refering to Tavions secret stance which should be made "non-cheat" in the expansion.
** refering to Dessans secret stance which should be made "non-cheat" in the expansion

Miracleasd
04-19-2002, 10:25 AM
i think it would be pretty nice if double ended and dual sabers were merged.

ie

you are using dual sabers and switch to saber staff. the animation shows one blade turn upside down, the hilts connect and twist to lock.

it could use this merging for any saber switching.

Over_burn_jedi
04-19-2002, 10:29 AM
That reminds me

Dont use the 2nd Blue stance with g_realistic on. It's too easy to put the smack-down on reborn

murdoc
04-19-2002, 11:00 AM
They will need to add new animations and comabatstyles
I do not beleave it's to much work for raven.

To use the new saber will u need to have full no the saber.
and from there will u be able to use to saber or the doble bade one.

Nill the Mean
04-19-2002, 11:56 AM
I had this idea too. I think everyone did.

It would be cool if you had a double saber that replaces the heavy-stance. You could have it inflict multiple light-stance hits at medium speed. This way ony one set of animations needs to be made too. I'm no whizz at programming but if someone tells me what kind of program I need to make animations like that then I'd sure like to try. Then, if I ever make animations which are any good, Id post them here or send them to Raven. Surely either you or they would put them to good use.

sunsetrider
04-19-2002, 12:58 PM
Also.
Is every model with lightsaber right-handed? Certainly, if Raven could do anything about animation, they should first consider ambidextrous models.

d4rth_b0b4
04-19-2002, 08:10 PM
good ideas ppl. im pretty aware that u would need some good programming to do this but remember "its all about the CONSUMER." the more cool stuff u add the more ppl u will have and even more ppl buying the game.

Dark Cloak
04-19-2002, 11:25 PM
I've been over and over the assets pk3s and I can't find out how the lightstaff was in multiplayer...I mean, it'd be great to port it to single player, but I can't figure it out. Has anyone else had luck with it?

Zek
04-20-2002, 12:48 AM
There are two pretty big things against this:

1.) As was mentioned before, it's a lot of work. Most significantly, an entirely new set of animations would have to be added in, and a ton of balance work would have to be done.

2.) EVERYONE would be using either 2 sabers or a two-bladed one. I know I would sacrifice a power or two for those abilities, if they were more powerful than the existing ones. In Jedi Master I already have level 3 in every power I use and then some. The concept would very quickly lose its appeal.

Dark Cloak
04-20-2002, 01:24 AM
Well, for people that like that kind of thing, paticularly saber duelists, it would be a nice thing to have.

enDless_Deliriu
04-20-2002, 02:26 AM
The balancing might not be that hard actually.

Raven said they kept the hidden Light and the hidden Heavy stance out of the game because they were too strong.

So you simply do this.

1 Light saber: 5 stances.
Extra Light(current player light stance) (fast moves, light hits), Light(Tavion/Luke light stance) (fast moves, slightly stronger hits, not as strong as medium).
Medium (speed and power fairly well mixed. Potentially no longer as useful as it is now due to Light/Heavy and Light).
Light/Heavy(Desann's Heavy) Faster than heavy, slower than medium. Power level in between as well.
Heavy - slow and heavy hitting.

Than

Double Lightsaber stance: 2 stances
Light and Medium (a heavy stance doesn't work as well with a staff unless you can grip one end..which you can't do with a lightsaber staff. Lots of twirls and the like are used)

Light - Faster than single stance extra light, and full of twirls and thrusts

medium - about as fast as light stance, and a bit stronger (simply because it hits more with the spins)

Dual Saber: 3 stances
Light, Medium, and Heavy.

Heavy - About as fast as Light/Heavy and doing a bit more damage than heavy, but leaves you more open and both sabers are used in the attack.

Medium - Speed in between Light and Medium for single saber, damage a bit lower. More spins keeping the blades out for attacks. Moderate for defense.

Light - Speed and power in between extra light and light. Only the defense is a lot higher (two sabers in light stance should be able to block almost anything).

Then maybe give each stance a certain advantage

Light 2 sabers can block the Death From Above attack. 1 saber can destroy the double-saber, bringing the person down to using single saber attack patterns, but only having extra light and medium stances. and double-saber can disarm one saber from a dual-saber person, also bringing them down to only 1 saber.

thoughts?

NoodlyGod
04-20-2002, 04:34 AM
I've got a question not entirely related to this topic. Does anyone know if it's legal for us to make a Star Wars related mod? My friend pointed out something in part of the user agreement that basically said "if you make a level, you can't do anything with it but we own it and we can sell it" I don't recall it mentioning mods specifically but does anyone have any more info for me? I was wanting to make a single player mod that had a new story and a new main character but I wouldn't want to put my time and effort into something like that only to have it turn out that it isn't legal. (I was reminded of this because we were thinking about putting a lightstaff and duel sabers in the mod, but if it's legal don't get your hopes up. It's quite possible it might not happen regardless of the legality, unless we get some modellers and coders that want to do a lot of work.)

Skyro
04-20-2002, 05:06 AM
For those concerned with balance issues arising from the implementation of the proposed 'Twin' and 'Lightstaff' saber types, I would bring to your attention that these new additions could simply be a visual change, and not one that would change gameplay in measureable ways. To want these lightsaber types is to want new animations for the way the characters use their lightsabers, and new looks for the lightsabers, nothing more.

Of course, it would be great if each style would alter gameplay, offering their own strengths and weaknesses and other tangible, noticeable differences. This would be nice, but if Raven just can't handle balancing three different things (a feat even I could perform), a lot of people would be content with a purely asthetic alteration. While I would prefer stratigic importance between the styles, I would gladly accept any real implementation. And while I would remorse over the loss of opportunity, the craving would be satisfied. Thoughts?

panacea
04-20-2002, 07:19 AM
Yeah, I have a thought. What are we paying Raven for, anyway? We bought the game, didn't we?

:D

Forum Parrot
04-20-2002, 07:37 AM
Yeah, I have a thought. What are we paying Raven for, anyway? We bought the game, didn't we?

:D

H.B.M.C.
04-20-2002, 02:04 PM
I'm just thinking... can you imagine sabre throw with 2 Sabres/Lightstaff?

Two sabres could either be two quick throws, or a double throw that can go after more targets. Staff throw would be SCARY (although catching it would be a problem!).

I personally think it'd rock, but to balence them you'd have to make the single sabre just as good. Ramp up its damage, add more (and more useful moves), or, on the flip side, make the Staff and 2 Sabre's less deadly, just so there is a use for the single sabre.

BYE

CupO'Coffee
04-20-2002, 02:34 PM
all ideas mentioned here great imo, but don't think they are really realistic.
the work they would have to put into making these akimbo lightsaber stuff isn't justified considering that we're talking about an expansion here.
but imo they could indeed implement the lightstaff, which is already in the game. either a "real" one, with advantages/disadvantages or a lightstaff which is nothing more than a graphical modification. either way, it would add some changes into the game, because one could choose from more lightsaber types. "all" they have to do is to take the current lightstaff, add/tweak the animations (i dont like getting chooped into two while striking) and voila.
i think this is important because it would add some fun into multiplayer games, and the multiplayer part of a game is the part that keeps it alive by having a community

Zek
04-20-2002, 03:22 PM
Yeah, adding an entire new set of saber animations and coding the blocking and such sure is easy...

Territo
04-20-2002, 03:42 PM
I think the double-edged lightsaber is a very good idear. I'm sure the programming is very difficult to do as people have stated but the balancing issue shouldn't be hard at all. For the fourth lvl in saber offense you can make the person have to put in like 20 points, this way he will have to make his saber defense lower or have maby one force power lvl 3. This depends on the force rank but even on Jedi Master people can still go head to head against someone with the double-edged saber and win. It be cool if they could make about a 3% chance of the handle breaking during combat and leaving the person with a normal one blade. After respawn he would get the double blade back providing he still has lvl 4 saber offense.

d4rth_b0b4
04-20-2002, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by enDless_Deliriu
The balancing might not be that hard actually.

Raven said they kept the hidden Light and the hidden Heavy stance out of the game because they were too strong.

So you simply do this.

1 Light saber: 5 stances.
Extra Light(current player light stance) (fast moves, light hits), Light(Tavion/Luke light stance) (fast moves, slightly stronger hits, not as strong as medium).
Medium (speed and power fairly well mixed. Potentially no longer as useful as it is now due to Light/Heavy and Light).
Light/Heavy(Desann's Heavy) Faster than heavy, slower than medium. Power level in between as well.
Heavy - slow and heavy hitting.

Than

Double Lightsaber stance: 2 stances
Light and Medium (a heavy stance doesn't work as well with a staff unless you can grip one end..which you can't do with a lightsaber staff. Lots of twirls and the like are used)

Light - Faster than single stance extra light, and full of twirls and thrusts

medium - about as fast as light stance, and a bit stronger (simply because it hits more with the spins)

Dual Saber: 3 stances
Light, Medium, and Heavy.

Heavy - About as fast as Light/Heavy and doing a bit more damage than heavy, but leaves you more open and both sabers are used in the attack.

Medium - Speed in between Light and Medium for single saber, damage a bit lower. More spins keeping the blades out for attacks. Moderate for defense.

Light - Speed and power in between extra light and light. Only the defense is a lot higher (two sabers in light stance should be able to block almost anything).

Then maybe give each stance a certain advantage

Light 2 sabers can block the Death From Above attack. 1 saber can destroy the double-saber, bringing the person down to using single saber attack patterns, but only having extra light and medium stances. and double-saber can disarm one saber from a dual-saber person, also bringing them down to only 1 saber.

thoughts?
very good i dea i like this