View Full Version : Hollow Victory

Jah Warrior
04-19-2002, 01:05 AM
Greetings to all,

This is a subject that may or may not have been covered I simply havent got the time to trawl through the entire forum so apologies if so.

An interesting thing happened today, in the middle of a great and I mean GREAT duel. One of the players was pushed to the ground and was basicly defenceless primed for the kill, when my friend stopped to let the guy get to his feet and get back up to continue where they left off. The chap named Watto I think, had to stop and ask "why did you let me live?" My friend Red replied "I can't Kill you when defenceless it isn't the way of the lightside of the force." Which to me was fair and extremely honourable.

Shortly Watto's friend joined our server whom shall remain anonymous for his sake. He played very well but was scoring what I think anyone would consider cheap shots, ie always pushing and attacking defenceless players. However he was using light powers which seemed ironic to me. I asked him why he used these tactics with lightside powers, wouldn't it be more fitting for him to use drain than heal? He unleashed a torrent of abuse aimed directly at myself and Red and no matter what happens we never allow swearing or abuse of anykind on the server as Kids play this game too! Next round I played him and made him look rather silly once i had asked for a no force duel.

Ultimately after no-end of abuse and such, we decided he must be kicked. I played Watto and called a vote for this chap to be kicked. Watto was so disgusted with his fellow clan member that he voted for his removal.

This guy immediately phoned Watto to give hime some verbal abuse for carrying the vote, Watto told us this and I apologised if kicking him had gotten watto in trouble with the clan. Watto said that he liked us and that his friend was out of order and that he agreed with our standards of conduct. A stand up guy!

I learnt a good lesson from this fellow, and that is by showing respect and common decency you can gain new friends, Who has too many friends I ask?

Some people I feel place more value on winning than on enjoying the game and having a fair honourable fight. Myself I would rather lose every single fight I have than win by cheap shots and dirty tricks.

I know this may or may not be of interest to you but I am trying to help people to understand that treating people with dignity and respect will make you friends all over the world. So next time you have a duel or are bearing down on a guy you've pushed to the floor think twice. Mercy can be perceived as weakness but it is also the sign of a good person.

Increase the Peace

Jah Warrior H.o.D (Honour or Death)

Big respect to RedeyeJedi, Azz, Watto, Wurzi Wobble and all other honourable players.

04-19-2002, 01:20 AM
Right on! You go girl!

04-19-2002, 01:21 AM
pfffffff. I agree that verbal abuse is wrong, since kids play these games too, but hey, I'm a teenager and I'm going to spout a string of filth at someone who happened to swing the right way to miss my attack and kill me. But I do use "cheap" tactics to win. I'll knock someone down and kill them while on the ground for one reason, he'd more than likely do the same to me. I really don't think anyting is cheap, really. Raven put it all in there for a reason, and if it can be done I'll find a way to do it and exploit it against someone who is unaware of it (such as the sideways Swift Kick or the you keep runing towards me, I'll swift kick you until you fall down) So I really don't det mad at people nomatter what tactic they use, because it's there for a reason.

*prepares himself for horrendous flames*

04-19-2002, 01:23 AM
I also play in such a manner. Jedi's are honorable people. I will not attack a defenceless person. It's just no proper. Glad to here there are others like me.

I cannot stand how cheap some people are.

04-19-2002, 01:29 AM
i can understand playing with honor and such....like if ur in a game with friends...but if your playign with someone u dont know then whats so wrong about knocking a person down and killing him? and alot of cheap tactics have counter offensive moves u can do so there not really all that cheap, just showing who knows how to get a quick kill......

04-19-2002, 01:29 AM
If a player wants to use swears and verbal abuse and just plain rude gameplay tactics, maybe they should play some of those mindless shooting games like Quake or something, where all the players are scumbags and idiots (just kidding Quake fans... using you as an example). Courteous gaming (or at least mildly considerate gaming) should be exercised at all times, unless its a "uncensored" server. Blech.

-Stan Tencza
"Now you see that Evil will always triumph...
Because good is dumb." - Lord Helmet

04-19-2002, 02:01 AM
Heyas Stan...So far in Quake and UT I have meet a much nicer group and more civil servers than in JK2...so watch it buddy ;)

04-19-2002, 02:26 AM
it's refreshing to hear stories like that, its not common enough,

if dueling, I won't intentionally kill them if I win a saber lock or something, but I might attack them, but not kill them, unless for some reason it'd be really dramatic, or I have a grudge against them or something,

if someone stupidly jumps in an area they should know better, sure I'll pull/push them down the hole or whatever, and if I'm trying to go somewhere and someones in the way or I am full force powers, I might push em over, lol, but not attack em,

and I even play dark side! (gotta have that grip to throw people attack after a duel challenge off the edge,... )

04-19-2002, 02:30 AM
I'd say the vast majority of the force powers are dishonorable in some way or another...

Jah Warrior
04-19-2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by DannyJAllTheWay
Right on! You go girl!

Hold on a minute I'm a bloke!

Con. Snake
04-19-2002, 08:45 AM
I like it when they push me down and try to get the easy kill - I simply jump kick then as they move in for the blow(hit jump alot and you get up just as they get close enough to strike you), usually hurtling them over an edge - Then again, that's their fault for trying to get an easy kill on a "defenseless" person.

My belief is that Honor has no place in say, FFA(However if I'm shown respect I will show it in return). In FFA I will do everything I can with everything at my disposal to win, even if it means jumping over a group slugging it out and dropping a det pack. I feel, that it belongs in things like CTF(I'm still thinking on this one, not sure) and Duel however as these aren't Death Match modes.

The Truthful Liar
04-19-2002, 08:57 AM
I play however I feel like. Pending what I do at the spur of the moment. No biggie if someone kills me, I must have done something wrong or he's just better than me.

Sometimes I swear... just allitle... because it's annoying that you don't get to play 'other' people and you keep facing the same dam person over and over.

Anyway, yes it is nice not to kill people who fall down - BUT about 90% of the time I will =) No, I'm not evil, its just that I don't want my opponent to ruin my streak or do that move on me when I don't expect it.

Nill the Mean
04-19-2002, 10:32 AM
Just thinking to myself now, is it me or is there never any mention of "Jedi honor" in the movies? What Obi-Wan did to Darth Maul was hardly honorable, that was a cheap trick if I ever saw one. Honor is nice and everything but people are taking it just a little too far. Some guy hit me with my saber off yesterday. The way I gather it to be I am supposed to start hurling every ugly word invented since the dawn of time at him. Which I don't. I said to myself: oooh, that cheecky devil, I'm going to kill him now. So I did.

Con. Snake
04-19-2002, 10:35 AM
Not to mention they ganged up on Maul - 2 on 1.

04-19-2002, 11:00 AM
Yeah, I have to agree to that. Jedi Honor is a nice thing, but when fighting the dark side I don't think there really is much honor involved. In the end it's always about killing your opponent or to be killed.
And everything counts. I sure am looking forward to see how Lucas is going to halndle that once some real Jedi Fights will be shown on the movies.

04-19-2002, 11:07 AM
Can someone please tell me why you would force push someone to the ground and then not kill them? Why use it at all?


04-19-2002, 11:24 AM
Never seen any kind of role-play within the realm of Quake 3 FPS. If players are deign to do just that to enliven the spirit of the Star Wars, I say I am all for it.

But the force powers as Mr. Lucas thought it out, it does not get any complex below the surface level, imo. I think he just designated good and evil (wearing white means good, wearing black means evil), and really did not go into it besides some symbolisms and significant turn of events to depict their struggle. But the honor thing I don't think is really relevant to Star Wars, because of all the reasons stated above. But more power to them if they want to conduct themselves like that, it is a breath of fresh air and very relevant considering how etiquette in online play is improved.

04-19-2002, 11:24 AM
You cant afford to hold respect to your opponents in combat. Choosing not to strong-slash someone who is idle is the basic example of the ideal amount of respect we want (Or perhaps just I) in our servers.

04-19-2002, 12:51 PM
Whats force push for if you cant hit them while they are down? Without using force powers saber fights last a LONG time due to the ridiculous amount of damage someone can take from a lightsaber and keep going, often ending with them running off to heal and no one getting a kill.

04-19-2002, 01:03 PM
If I push someone and they don't hit space to get up right away, I consider it my duty to kill them for their mistake - after all it's the only way they'll learn to improve that particular aspect of their game. To let them live, to not try and win, would be to show my contempt for an unworthy adversary. This has precedent in the movies - Qui-gon didn't hesitate to backfist Darth Maul off a walkway if he thought he could win. Why? Because he respected (and maybe even feared) Maul as an opponent and knew that he had to use every trick to win - for him it was life and death and that sort of intense fighting is the best, when you know that one mistake ends a great fight.

As for verbal abuse in game, there is nver an excuse for it, anyone engaging in it should be kicked and I completely agree with the way you guys handled the situation. Swearing at your computer screen on the other hand is fine :D

Lnt. Kechtt
04-19-2002, 01:03 PM
I've already given up discussing honor. I have it, I just don't want to talk about it. I agree is the verbal abuse. That has no place. I believe that swearing is a weak minds attempt to express itself forcefully. Abuse is not worth dealing with.

04-19-2002, 01:12 PM
I don't mind the occasional tactical use of push, when my opponent sees an opening and catches me off guard, but it gets highly annoying when I'm up against those people that try to push me EVERY TIME we charge at eachother. Granted it's easy to predict and defend against at that point, but people should realize that if you don't vary your attack, a good player's gonna figure you out and walk all over you.

Anyway, the situation I just mentioned is one of the few times I'll push back and hit them while they're down.. To show them how it's done. :D

The only other times I'll hit an opponent while he's down are for other similar situations, when my opponent is trying other cheapish moves against me. It basically comes down to the fact that I'll show respect to those who show respect to me, but get abusive, and I'll be abusive right back... only I'll do it better. ;) :p

As for HBK's question of why one would use push and not hit the downed opponent... There have been MANY occasions where I've used push defensively in order to get an aggressive opponent away from me long enough to give me some breathing room so that I can setup a better strategy. :saberb:

Con. Snake
04-19-2002, 01:25 PM
I like to wait til the "One Hit Wonder" spammers try to jump, then force push them so high they're either dead, or almost dead from the fall, or right over an edge if I'm pissed off.

04-19-2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Con. Snake
I like it when they push me down and try to get the easy kill - I simply jump kick then as they move in for the blow(hit jump alot and you get up just as they get close enough to strike you), usually hurtling them over an edge - Then again, that's their fault for trying to get an easy kill on a "defenseless" person.

:D There is no honor in kick-flipping me as I attempt to slash you after I Push you to your back, Snake! :D

Seriously, though, I don't get *this* point in the original post. You have an advantage, and choose not to use it? That doesn't make sense; why use Push at all, then?

I use this quite a bit, and have it used on me as well. It's a TACTIC, it has nothing to do with 'honor'. Yeeesh!

I don't taunt, I don't curse, but I will kill you if I flip you onto your back.

04-19-2002, 03:05 PM
well i seriously play how my opponent plays. thats my philosphy, if my opponent kicks me and doesnt slash me, i'll do the same from then on when fighting him. when my opponent throws his saber at me, i'll start to throw my saber at him. if my opponent outrageously tries to push me off the edge (which i can just use absorb and laugh) i'll do the same to him. thats pretty much how i play. if someone wants to fight honorably. i'de do some show off moves (like the new animations that were released with the butterfly and stuff) make it a more dramatic battle