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View Full Version : RAVEN: Suggestion to balance guns and force.


DNACowboy
04-19-2002, 03:39 PM
Ok this is just a little tweak that i think would go a long ways to balancing the Force, light sabres, and the large guns.


The Force Pull (ing) of weapon distance is directly proportional to the lethality of the gun.


Right now you have to be fairly close to force pull a weapon away. Personally i find this annoying coming from JK's style. but i learned to live with it, but then it struck me. The lightsabre should be the ultimate weapon, BUT the guns need to be there to.

A good balance might be reached IF the larger the gun the further a way it can be pulled out of the hands.

Example:
the Storm Trooper rifle/cross bow/ would be the same distance as it is now (lets say this is 5meters since i don't know the actual distance)..

Now the Heavy repeater/rocket launcher etc. can be pulled from 50 meters away. ( or 10 times the current distance).



The reason i say this is because JediKnight was so well balanced that it was no longer a matter of who had the largest gun ( a la Q3) it now became a game with a little more finesse. And i am by no means ratting on the gunners, guns are an essential part of the game ( without guns some CTF games would be very tedious), i am one of those that uses both guns and sabre on a regular basis. But on the other hand in this universe, the bottom line should be the sabre..

IMHO this would go a long way to balancing an already great game.

Essobie
04-19-2002, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by DNACowboy
Ok this is just a little tweak that i think would go a long ways to balancing the Force, light sabres, and the large guns.


The Force Pull (ing) of weapon distance is directly proportional to the lethality of the gun.


Right now you have to be fairly close to force pull a weapon away. Personally i find this annoying coming from JK's style. but i learned to live with it, but then it struck me. The lightsabre should be the ultimate weapon, BUT the guns need to be there to.

A good balance might be reached IF the larger the gun the further a way it can be pulled out of the hands.

Example:
the Storm Trooper rifle/cross bow/ would be the same distance as it is now (lets say this is 5meters since i don't know the actual distance)..

Now the Heavy repeater/rocket launcher etc. can be pulled from 50 meters away. ( or 10 times the current distance).



The reason i say this is because JediKnight was so well balanced that it was no longer a matter of who had the largest gun ( a la Q3) it now became a game with a little more finesse. And i am by no means ratting on the gunners, guns are an essential part of the game ( without guns some CTF games would be very tedious), i am one of those that uses both guns and sabre on a regular basis. But on the other hand in this universe, the bottom line should be the sabre..

IMHO this would go a long way to balancing an already great game.

Ugh. A few points:

1) It's already been said by one of the game's designers that the Lightsaber CAN'T be as powerful in a video game as it is in the movies. So that's not how it is "supposed to be."

2) JK1 WAS about having the largest gun. In FFA, the top scorers typically held on to Concussion Rifles for the majority of a game, usually relying on Absorb to block force Pull.

The only reason guns get you more kills now than Sabers is because too many people are actually playing with nothing but Sabers in FFA games where guns are available. Just makes them easy targets for big splash damage weapons.

Two people with Heavy Repeaters and Force Jump going at it looks a whole lot different than 1 guy with a Heavy Repeater and 3 people waving sabers around not paying attention to the first guy.

TrUeFoRcE
04-19-2002, 05:10 PM
the way the game is set up is perfectly fine, most people like the ightsaber so thats all they use and it leaves them wide open, besides force push can push back most of the explosives like the repeater secondary fire and the rockets from the rocket launcher so its pretty much a matter of whos smart enough to switch to a gun when someone else has one....and the lightsaber isnt the ultimate weapon even in the movies, it can block the smaller blasts but when something like the repeaters secondary fire comes at you theres no stopping it unless u push it, so even though the saber is seen as a great weapn i odnt think it should be seen as the ultimate weapon because it really isnt compared to some guns, also if the lightsaber was "the ultimate weapon" in the game there would be no use at all for the guns, and i know alot of people who like the guns alot better than the saber...

Pvt_Dancer
04-19-2002, 05:24 PM
Heres my balance suggestion....

Do nothing about it. Its fine the way it is. If you have such trouble dealing with guns play on no guns servers. Thats what I do when I feel like doing the saber only thing...

See, thats why there is a CHOICE. Some people like playing with guns and some don't. I personally use the saber MOST of the time. I rarely feel like I need the guns.
From time to time, however, I will play saber on gun servers because I like the challenge. I played on one the other day and I think that if you aren't dueling with the sabers on a gun server then you have a screw loose... don't do that... just asking to be shot at. Also, I find that with a little creative force use you can get right up to a gunner and cut them down with no problem.

DNACowboy
04-19-2002, 05:46 PM
hehehehe
"
If you have such trouble dealing with guns play on no guns servers.
"

i AM a gun user.. sorry if i didn't make that clear in my post. i'll say it again.

I Use Guns, Guns are essential to the Game.

The point of my post isn't that guns are NOT bad (guns are good), it is my OPINION ( wow some of you can get so testy to opinions) that in JKO the balance between guns and Force/Sabre can be IMPROVED!!! Please note the difference between change and improve.

gaeb
04-19-2002, 06:01 PM
A lot of problems would be removed if the opponent couldn't run backward while shooting at the same speed you chase them. Then getting close and yanking the gun would be less tricky. I agree the range could be upped... SLIGHTLY...

- Gaeb

NeJJa
04-19-2002, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by DNACowboy

The reason i say this is because JediKnight was so well balanced that it was no longer a matter of who had the largest gun ( a la Q3) it now became a game with a little more finesse.

dude, there was only one gun in JK, the concussion rifle. if you didnt have it you just try to get a lucky kill with the rail or saber and grab his pack.

p.s.
i miss packs :( and wtf is up with not being able to get a weapon as ammo...

aletoledo
04-19-2002, 08:54 PM
in terms of the star wars universe, I don't think the lightsaber should be the "ultimate" weapon. if you are familair with stars wars, you should know that the light saber wasn't meant to cause vaste destruction, but rather to be a precise tool. I like to equate most guns to a butchers clever and a light saber to a surgeons scalpel. of course in multiplayer they is rarely a downside to killing your friends (jedimaster it gives points to the jedi though)....perhaps the only 'balance' required here would be to penalize random destruction and reward selective fighting....but of course thats really none-sense in regards to a game based upon quake.

in terms of defeating guns, by using only a light saber...I honestly have little problem and if the map is an open area, its even easier. of course I die to the alt-fire of the repeater occasionally...but I enjoy fighting against a alt-fire flechette or rocket user now believe it or not. in both these weapons, they fire slower than the alt-fire of the repeater, enough that you can push back every other shot (every shot of the rocket though) if timed correctly....but after a couple shots I'm either in pulling range or the guy has backpeddled so much that I can duck around a corner and wait for him to return into range (playing third person view makes it easy to view around corners)

want some fun and you think you're good with a saber? try guarding one of the guns from the countless people rushing it and use nothing but the saber to do it. last 10+ player game I was in doing this (star destroyer map), I really had people avoiding going for the flechette and as a result placed 2nd or third despite 80% running around with a gun and me solely with a sbaer.

Saient
04-19-2002, 09:16 PM
I honestly wouldn't know what to do about balancing issues but talking from a hunting point of view a jedi with a saber has got to be the easiest prey

should the jedi be the easiest to kill? No
should the jedi be the ultimate fighting force in the game? No
should a gunner be the easiest to kill? No
should a gunner be the ultimate fighting force in the game? No

Now if you took the force away from the gunner then that would even things out, but that would also suck

Now if you had Gunners apply points to their weaponry that might do something, but it doesn't make sense spending force on weapons

If you had Jedi's with their sabers out "not be affected by the force meter and it always stayed full" then Jedi vs Jedi battles would be interesting and fair but the second they switch to a gun and start using force their "FORCE CONCENTRATION SLIPS" hehe so they have to use their force bar again. Now that might have some decent effects The jedi would be able to force push as many rockets/Concussion Grenades/thermal detoators as he wanted with out running out of force power.. which would in turn cause the gunner to aim more carfully on a jedi

I think that might work a little

Is there a cheat to have your force bar constantly full? it would be worth a try on a cheat enabled server

i dunno I just got back from work at the bar so Im not really thinking straight. I think if there's a cheat for it I could test it because right now if I see a jedi in a game its basically a joke and pi$$ easy to kill em which is a shame.

also the rate of force push would have to = the rate of fire from weaponry

what do you guys think, do I have an idea here or should I take a nap???

Saient
04-19-2002, 09:39 PM
never mind the driveling crap post I wrote above..Im obviously not thinking about how jedi's having full force all the time would efect the game.. DRAIN DRAIN DRAIN HEAL HEAL HEAL... 10 times worse


Im going to bed now.. goodnight

Mattman
04-19-2002, 09:41 PM
You make some interesting points, Saient, but there are some serious issues with having unlimited force power. Primarily, I thinking of absorb and protection. In the current state of the game, with unlimited, you could turn them on and be nearly invulnerable to any attack for as long as you were holding the saber. To a lesser extent, drain would be useless against sabers, and heal could be used indefinitely. So maybe instead of unlimited force, a much faster recharge rate for the force power. That way, a jedi could push away more shots, but not be too overpowered.

I don't think that a jedi should be able to push back all explosives fired anyway. Just enough that a skilled jedi could buy a window of time to get to the guy firing at him.