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muchafraid
05-06-2000, 06:51 AM
I was thinking, why is Jar Jar in Episode One? What significant part does he really play, besides the fact that he provides the link to the Gungen Army; there is really no place for him. And I think they could have found a better way to write the Gungans in, rather than Jar Jar. Anyways just a thought. I donít know, I didnít care too much for Jar Jar. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif

muchafraid

Zoom Rabbit
05-06-2000, 08:06 AM
Me either. That's it for him, then. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif

<font color=orange>"No! Mesa don' wanna go in th' airlock! No! Helllllp--!"</font>

SCHOOOOMP--!

Aw, look. That precious look on his face will be frozen there forever. *Sigh*

[This message has been edited by Zoom Rabbit (edited May 06, 2000).]

wizzywig
05-06-2000, 03:43 PM
muchafraid--

Yours is about the mildest expression of disapproval for Jar Jar that I have seen on this forum. In the past, there have been absolutely gungacidal expressions of hate and loathing for the harmless little fella.

If Lucas has kept his finger on the pulse of SWfan opinion, he will probably have a small-to-nonexistent role for "General" Binks in the next movie.

Personally, I like Jar Jar. But then I've always had an affection for offbeat, doofusoid characters who end up saving the day. To me, Jar Jar is Disney's Goofy, Mayberry's Barney Fife, Curly of the Three Stooges, and Frodo of The Lord of the Rings all rolled into one. I enjoyed him immensely in the film--and I thought he was used effectively in a role that Tolkien first carved out in literature for his hobbits, a role described by the Apostle Paul in 1Corinthians 1:27: "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong."

--wiz



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"God never wrought a miracle to convince atheism
because his ordinary works convince it."
--FRANCIS BACON (1551-1626)

Obiwon15
05-06-2000, 06:41 PM
I agree with you muchafraid I really didnt think they needed to put jar jar binks in episode 1. I hated him he wasnt funny at all he was stupid why couldnt lucas have Obiwan and qui gon find the gungan city some other way.

"I am a jedi like my father before me"

theahnfahn
05-06-2000, 06:42 PM
Jar Jar was one of the things I truly despised about that movie. If it wasn't for the podracing scene I would call that a horrible movie. Maybe I should hold off on my judgement until the next two, but nothing was really entertaining in Episode 1.

To me, Jar Jar is Disney's Goofy, Mayberry's Barney Fife, Curly of the Three Stooges, and Frodo of The Lord of the Rings all rolled into one.

I LOL, because I can't stand any of those! I think Kramer from Seinfeld is the only goofy, lanky guy I've ever been able to enjoy.

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And there he is. The reigning champion of the Boonta Classic, and the crowd favorite-TheAhnFahn

Zoom Rabbit
05-06-2000, 07:59 PM
Frodo was not goofy! The Tolkien readers in the house may, after reflection, realize that Frodo played a tragic/heroic role in the ring saga...while the hobbits played such a role in the geopolitical environment of Middle Earth at the end of the Third Age, such wasn't the niche filled by the good Frodo himself.

Sam Gamgee...now he was a doofus. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif

wizzywig
05-06-2000, 10:22 PM
TheAhnFahn--


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To me, Jar Jar is Disney's Goofy, Mayberry's Barney Fife, Curly of the Three Stooges, and Frodo of The Lord of the Rings all rolled into one.
-----------------------------------

I LOL, because I can't stand any of those! I think Kramer from Seinfeld is the only goofy, lanky guy I've ever been able to enjoy.

Oh, yeah, and Kramer from Seinfeld.

--wiz

wizzywig
05-06-2000, 10:31 PM
Zoom--

I didn't mean that Frodo is goofy like the others. I meant that Frodo fulfilled the 1Corinthians 1:27 role that Tolkien brilliantly designed: "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong."

Goofy, Barney, Curly (and Kramer) are of a kind. They are models for Jar Jar's personality. Our much brighter and more dignified and esteemed hobbit, Frodo, is a model for Jar Jar's role.

Jar Jar is the linchpin for uniting the Gungans, the Naboo, and the Jedi into a unified force to defeat the Trade Federation. Without Jar Jar, it doesn't happen. I mean, sure, the storyline could have been written to accomplish the same thing through other means, but I personally enjoyed Jar Jar.

(Could it be that I identify with a klutzy sap like Jar Jar?)

--wiz



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"God never wrought a miracle to convince atheism
because his ordinary works convince it."
--FRANCIS BACON (1551-1626)

Darth Crater
05-07-2000, 04:04 AM
I believe that besides uniting the people of Naboo and the Gungans, Jar-Jar was also used to teach a lesson about respecting others. The way that Obi-Wan looked down on the goofy gungan as a pitiful lifeform (the same attitude that he held toward Anakin), was meant to illustrate a point: that we shouldn't be so quick to call someone inferior because they are a misfit. So, whether you like Jar-Jar or not, you must admit he stood for something pretty noble.

Darth Crater
05-07-2000, 04:07 AM
wiz-

No comment on that last question. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/smile.gif

Orbvs_Terrarvm
05-07-2000, 05:11 AM
I bet Jar Jar will be in all three movies. George is all pissed off that so many people hate his creation he has too much pride to get rid of him. Yeah.. that'll teach us! I mean we already have 3PO to give us a comical character we dont need two of them. Almost every scene Jar Jar has is a distraction from the plot of the movie. I say he gets fed to a Rancor. Or maybe we can make a website showing Jar Jar in the stomach of a Sarlaac slowly digesting. No I need something quiker. The more I write about Jar Jar the more angry I become. I AM GETTING MORE PISSED BY THE SECOND!!!! ARRRRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!! ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRR!!!! KILL JAR JAR!!!!! PAPER CUTS TO THE EYES!! MAKE HIM SLIDE DOWN A RAZOR AND LAND IN POOL OF ALCOHOL FILLED WITH DRUNKEN PIRANAS!! IF HE ISNT SAWED IN TWO FIRST!!!! I WANNA PRY OPEN HIS MOUTH WITH TOOTHPICKS THEN STOMP ON HIS HEAD TO DRIVE THEM THROUGH HIS NASAL CAVITY! OKay, sorry I need to calm down. Talking about Jar Jar is not good for my constitution.......................

Zoom Rabbit
05-07-2000, 05:52 AM
My goodness, citizen! You need to visit the baths and relax a little... http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif

Hm. I like your argument here, Wiz. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/smile.gif While I did (like many) find Jar-Jar's over-the-top klutziness a bit overplayed, I liked the part his character played in the story. In TPM we see all kinds of galactic politics and theological forces alligning in the background, and at the heart of the adventure is a group whose numbers include a simple, backwater, Rastafarian space frog. Old George works a lot of mythological technique into his storytelling, and the presence of this 'humble innocent' is one such example. Professor Tolkien worked in the same way, so we find Frodo filling the same role in his trilogy.

But Tolkien, IMHO, did something slightly different in his story. He chose to amplify the noble qualities of Frodo while still having him fill the role of humble innocent, so he assigned the coarser qualities of naiviete and silliness to a second character...Sam Gamgee. One will notice in the story that Frodo and Sam operate almost as a single individual, one representing the noble sacrifice and strength of will, and the other respresenting the simple folk wisdom and earthy survival abilities. I think both are meant to fulfill the role of humble innocent that Jar-Jar represents by himself in TPM. But what do I know--I cook for a living. You want fries with that? http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif

I think it would be okay to bring Jar-Jar back in the next movie...as long as we see him mellow a bit. If he continues to act brainless, well...it's airlock time for sure!

http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif



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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

Orbvs_Terrarvm
05-07-2000, 06:39 AM
Chillin in a dry sauna with a Sarsaparilla root beer,getting a massage, playing multiplayer, wearing Superman underoos unashamed..... forgetting about Jar Jar....

muchafraid
05-07-2000, 09:05 AM
good point... 1Corinthians 1:27: "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong."Also bring to mind, Matthew 5:5: "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."How so quickly we can begin to think that we are better than others, when what we need to realize is that we are all the same in God's eye. Psalm 49:10: "For all can see that wise men die; the foolish and the senseless alike perish and leave their wealth to others."This doesnít mean I didnít appreciate Jar Jar, I do agree in a way he brought Ďbalanceí to the movie. Obi Wan did appear to look down upon him, but that wasnít the only person he looked down upon. He also looked down upon Anakin at first. Still either way you look at it, Jar Jar needs to mellow out at bit. I didnít care much for the performance as I said, but maybe hesa mighten be clamed down by Episodeado 2sa o maybe 3sa . I hope anyway. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif

muchafraid

wizzywig
05-07-2000, 05:19 PM
Zoom! Brilliant analysis!

But Tolkien, IMHO, did something slightly different in his story. He chose to amplify the noble qualities of Frodo while still having him fill the role of humble innocent, so he assigned the coarser qualities of naiviete and silliness to a second character...Sam Gamgee. One will notice in the story that Frodo and Sam operate almost as a single individual, one representing the noble sacrifice and strength of will, and the other respresenting the simple folk wisdom and earthy survival abilities. I think both are meant to fulfill the role of humble innocent that Jar-Jar represents by himself in TPM.

That's dead-on. Frodo was a noble and self-sacrificing (but ordinary) Everyman--not a hero of the classical mold. Sam, meanwhile, was the more Jar Jarish of the two--though obviously not nearly so cartoonish and buffoonish as Jar Jar. If Lucas had possessed a canvas as vast as Tolkien's, perhaps he could have divided Jar Jar's role between two characters, and would have made the more major of the two more Frodoish than Sammish (and Goofyish).

Still, I'm amazed at the absolute pesticidal hatred people feel for poor, daffy, innocent Jar Jar.

--wiz

Zoom Rabbit
05-07-2000, 08:43 PM
Thanks, Wiz. *Blush*

BeastMaster
05-08-2000, 05:29 PM
I think JJ has a very important symbolic role to play in the prequels; Anakin's soul.

Watch TPM again, and note that JJ never once actively tries to hurt anyone. Even his Buster Keaton antics in the Gungan battle are made more from his trying to avoid hurting himself.

Jar Jar is something we see all too rarely in any movies; an Innocent.

I think we'll see JJ mature alongside Anakin, paralleling Anakin's own growth. When the time comes, I believe it will be Anakin (perhaps in his incarnation as Darth Vader) who finally kills Jar Jar. JJ could be the first Innocent (as opposed to enemy soldier) Anakin ever kills.

How better for Anakin to graphically lose his innocence and fully embrace the Dark Side than the death of an Innocent?

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"The Beasts know much that we do not." -Ancient Jedi proverb

wizzywig
05-08-2000, 06:06 PM
BeastMaster--

Much as I like Jar Jar, I like your idea--if Lucas doesn't go that direction, he is missing a powerful plot and characterization idea. Of course, it would be a downer for all the kiddies who find JJ as lovable as Barney the Dinosaur, but the dramatic possibilities are great, and so is the symbolism--the sacrifice of an innocent.

It would also have the advantage of being a very popular scene that would be roundly cheered by the "I Hate Jar Jar" faction.

--wiz

theahnfahn
05-08-2000, 06:13 PM
I must admit, Jar Jar did serve a very big purpose in that movie - to sell Jar Jar toys. Other than that, he was nothing but a complete goof. But it wasn't as if his goofiness was even funny. I can't put my finger on it, but there is just something about Jar Jar that angers me. As much as I hate to give Lucas money for such a sorry character, maybe I should just splurge and get one of those new fangled Jar Jar punching bags.

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And there he is. The reigning champion of the Boonta Classic, and the crowd favorite-TheAhnFahn

muchafraid
05-08-2000, 07:17 PM
theahnfahn--

Agreed. That was pretty much the only Jar Jar was in the movie. Sad, really.

muchafraid

Zoom Rabbit
05-09-2000, 01:52 AM
I like Beastmaster's analysis, and prefer it to the jaded commercialization view. I mean, I'm down on big corporate mind control, too...but I try not to let it keep me from enjoying what good things our corporate structure does create--like a good movie. http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif The movie wasn't the greatest sci-fi epic ever filmed, but it was at least a fun film to go see...and a big part of that fun (and that part which I enjoyed the most) was the story's mythic qualities. Jar Jar's place in that, as much as I find his character annoying, was an important one. Like Beastmaster was saying, if we take the story to be about Anakin, then Jar Jar represents nothing less than the innocence of Anakin's youth.

But I suppose he did sell a lot of toys, that one...

http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/biggrin.gif!

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"The entire universe is simply the fractal chaos boundary between intersecting domains of high and low energy."

wizzywig
05-09-2000, 04:47 AM
I see Lucas as the kind of savvy mythmaker who always thinks of the story first--but quickly sees the merchandising possibilities.

-w