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DrazMan
04-20-2002, 11:01 PM
All in all the game is funner than anything i've played in a long time. Some multiplayer issues should, and i think a lot of people agree, be dealt with in a patch. These ideas I will limit to something i believe can be done in a patch.

Drain- Im not one of the people saying it should be removed. Its fine being in the game. It should however be changed. It should not be able to deplete another players entire force pool in one second. Give it some time so light side can actually use absorb as a counter, or people can simply evade it. Also spending about half of there force pool they can drain a group of five entirely. Should be the other way around. They spend there entire force pool to deplete half of someone elses. Or even 3/4 would be fine. Man....didn't think i was gonna get that long winded on that but moving on.

Death from above- far to often you have people spam the death from above move. It is incredibly easy to avoid so why should it be changed? When you're dueling with someone who does nothing but DFA you get bored of just evading them. So you decide to stay a little bit closer to go in after he lands. Here is where the trouble is. Often times even when it looks like they are no where near you you get killed. I dont know if that is a lagg issue or framerate or what. But that isn't even the worst thing. They miss you...hit the ground and are sitting there....you run in to chop there head off and stub your toe on their saber and die? Cmon now. That is just sillyness. Also, maybe make the recover time a little bit longer. A lot of times after you evade DFA before you can get close enough to hit them they roll backwards and do it again.

Im not gonna mention the sheer randomness of most saber battles because i am not sure thats something that can be patched. I hope so.

This is already way to long so i'm going to mention one more thing. Im tired of finding good low pinging games, and joining them only to find out it has guns enabled. I would suggest a few extra filters on the server table which will find only servers with saber only, no force, ect.

Alright..that is all at the moment. See you guys out there.

Taicat
04-21-2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by DrazMan
Im tired of finding good low pinging games, and joining them only to find out it has guns enabled. I would suggest a few extra filters on the server table which will find only servers with saber only, no force, ect.

I use 'The All-Seeing-Eye' (ASE), which has EXCELLENT filters for this. http://www.udpsoft.com/eye/

Another one I use is Q-Tracker (www.qtracker.com), because of it's buddy list. The filters are pretty good in this too, but not as intuitive as ASE's...

The in-game browser is severly lacking, as it is in most FPS games.....

Much luck, and hope to catch you online sometime!

Tai.

[sico]
04-21-2002, 01:03 AM
there are 2 ppl who die from dfa. newbies and idiots.

SPY_jmr1
04-21-2002, 02:56 AM
3 kinds. you forgot idiot newbies:D

Zek
04-21-2002, 03:02 AM
DFA still pisses me off because it turns duels into a roll of the dice; one lucky hit is all it takes for them to win, and it's only made worse by how unreliable dodging it is. The saber-in-the-ground thing prevents me from getting close until they're finished, and then they run backwards until they can try it again. I often end up simply refusing to fight them until they try some real tactics. This is primarily a problem on no-force servers, where there's no other counter to it besides dodging.

[sico]
04-21-2002, 03:07 AM
if i end up fighting someone who constantly does it all i do i just keep throwing my saber at them till they change their stance since you have alot of trouble blocking saber throw in heavy stance.

Demangel
04-21-2002, 07:16 AM
though I agree it's not THAT deadly if you see it coming, it is too easily exploited. I say Change strong style entriely:

The movements:

The windup should take a while, maybe about 50% longer than it currently takes, and should be more obvious. (not totaly nescessary though)

The swing should be faster (more realistic, Ie more like medium style), and have the same lag hit time that medium style has, or maybe even less! In other words no tripping over saber blades... In Medium style it can be annoying sometimes to think you are swinging your saber when you are really just turning, however I wouldn't change that, because it works to make it more interesting and balanced, requiring real skill or luck...

The recovery should be long. the time between two swings should taken anywhere from between 1.5 seconds to 4 seconds (4 for the DFA for example, making it only useful in desperate situations or finishing blows).

Weaken the damage from strong style, not a lot, but enough to make it less able to kill in one hit when you have full health and no shields, even just knocking me to like 10 would be enough.

Make Saber blocking/parry more of a reality, make an animation of the baber blocking more like the reborn uses in SP. Make blocking a bit more intrinsic to fighting, wouldn't take much really, just make it so it works like this.

(note all would work by keeping the defender in the ready stance, FACING the enemy, parrying would only be possible when sidestepping/straffing)

Light, can block any light attack nearly indefinately, but eventualy a shot should go through. It block medium attacks equaly as well but you suffer some reduced damage. against strong style it blocks only rarely, and when it does has the same damage effect as medium but increased. When blocking the player can parry attack in other words attack imediately following an attack, but does less damage (to keep people from simply sitting there spam parrying). the parry would have a different animation to show that an attack is possible, Ie it would happen about 25% of the time Vs all but the strong style.

Medium can block all attacks equally, but some damage is incurred unless blocking light style. however it cannot block indefinately. your saber should be knocked around opening you up to a hit that is well timed or placed. the parry move should be a rarety, but still occur sometimes.

Strong style, can block ANY kind of attack once gauranteed in succession. Ie if your being battered by light style you can only block the first swing easily the rest are more or less timed randomly. thus you block much like you already do, but this is an offensive stance thus low on block ability. so long as the defender is in the right arc of the attack, the initial attack should always be totaly blockable due to the firm , and stance, in other words against a DFA you need to face upwards and crouch possibly. No parry ability. This would counter the DFA very well even on non force servers, making it possible to block them if you switch styles fast enough. NO parry ability.

I'm not talking about gimping strong style either BTW, just balancing it, and making it a tad more realistic. Regardless of how you feel about realism in video games, realism allows you to do things more intuitively, and reduces exploits better.

i feel the saber aspect of the game is the most popular, and most loved, it need not be so realistic to suck the fun out (realistically stubbing your toe on that saber would be a nightmare right?), and lead to more mutual killing, than anything else (in real life, about 70% of the time, duelists kill eachother since the best time to attack is when someone else is already attacking opening you up to an attack yourself, make sense? no? well trust me, I teach this stuff... no not lightsaber fighting real sword fighting...)

the force powers? I feel they are ok with the exception that the light side should have more defensive abilities.

Drain wouldn't be so bad if absorb stopped it properly. To be honest though I rarely use drain against lighties unless on a pushing level like the catwalk stages, or when I need HP's and don't have access to power ups for some reason. I actually try to stay away from the power ups, and rely on my drain ability if i can help it, it only makes me more able to survive extended engaments right? Rather than wimping out and running for a health up.

So when do I use drain the most? as I said when I am low on HP's, fighting people who push or pull a lot on catwalks, OR, when fighting a lightning monkey (you know those guys I am talking about, they run around backpeddling so you can't get to them lightning you to death, the evil ones drain you first!).

Though nothing pisses off a lightning monkey like draiing their lightning power, and making it so their lightning does nothing but drain your shields since you get your HP's back equaling the losses.

Grip? Not a problem, the way I figure it if I can't break the grip before I am over a pit, I pull em in with me. i use pull instead of push against grip ALWAYS for this reason. I can't tell you how many idiots I made fall down the pit with me that way, sometimes it works out so I do it before they get me over the pit and down they go :)

I rarely die to being gripped and mobbed... it's hard to hit a stationary target with a saber for 90% of the populace (ironic huh?). by the time they are about to hit me I usualy break the grip somehow and fall below the swings.

thus how do we fix the dark side advantage? make light side a bit more effective in it's defense abilities. How about making the heal force power automatic if you have enough force left over, and under 20 HP's? Or make it somehow more easy to activate in a similar manner? In single player, I don't know if it's a bug or not, but if I get hamered enough by a disruptor, my speed power activates without selecting it on occasion. Cioncidance? Bug? Or put in for a reason?

Or maybe make it so heal at level three is continous, in other words, when you don't activate it, it slowly rebuilds your HP's by maybe one point every 1-3 seconds. then when you activate it, it's instantaneous?

Or make absorb work like a passive drain? You heal yourself instead of take damage, and get force back on the higher level (3)

Thus a guy with absorb three can mock lightning or grip powers. And drain will do nothing negative to you as long as absorb (any level) is on. Drain though should always be useful for healing even if you are using absorb 1-2 against it, but absorb 3 should make you imune to force powers of all kinds the way I think it is intended.

Give light siders a bit more force efficiency maybe. thier force powers are more balanced, and passive, so maybe they require less force power to do the same move? Push and pull for example. (this is just a possible solution, not one I love like the others). Or maybe make their force meter regen much faster?

As it is I play dark force powers more often, and I don't exploit them either, I simply use them as tools to strengthen me, not as the cheap weapons they are sometimes overused as. Do I grip toss people off of catwalks? you bet your ass, but only if it seems fitting. Like at the end of a saber fight, or to quickly get rid of one person so I can deal with others, or to get vengeance for a DFA exploiter who nails me while I'm setting something in the console then mocks me...

all of the probelms in multiplayer though do NOt outwiegh the greatness that JKII Multiplayer is already. I will never whine, unless someone exploits something to no end, and even then I will ignore them for a long time first before it bugs me to the point of whining.

Thus JKII is AWESOME!!!!!!!!! AND I am NOT a big Sw fan, I like SW, but I bought JKII on a whim, and am really glad I did, made me fall in love with SW all over again! WOOT!

Con. Snake
04-21-2002, 08:03 AM
The only problem I have with drain is those bastards who completely drain you, then grip you and run you to an edge(which is so conveiniently placed on almost all maps). Without force, you are completely helpless when gripped(unless he puts you against a wall and comes to you, but this almost never happens). This can easily be rectified if they patched it so you can't use any force for a period of time(5-6 seconds longer than current down time) after using drain. This way, they have a chance to fight back.