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View Full Version : Single player effects in Multiplayer ?!?!


Smood
04-24-2002, 08:30 PM
I've noticed, that overall, the single player saber effects are far superior to multiplayers. Is there a way to mimic those exact effects in multiplayer?

There might have to be a code transfer into a pk3 file that would alter mp's effects.

Care to comment anyone?

Smood
04-25-2002, 01:10 AM
anyone?

Usurper
04-25-2002, 12:34 PM
People are working on trying to bind certain animations to keys.
But, I wouldnt expect to much to change as far as effects go.

*T¥RANITH*
04-25-2002, 12:56 PM
Damn that's a shame :( cos the SP fights look completely different from the MP :P
I actually haven't played SP yet, I left that to my bro and watched him @ times. They look cool but there isn't as much skill involved as in MP methinx...

Pseudonym
04-25-2002, 01:02 PM
In duels you can have some of the same effects as SP like saberlocking and less force whoredom.

DarthFreak
04-25-2002, 01:10 PM
Yep, I think that multiplayer combat is harder to master, 'cause the saber clasing and defense is quite different from the SP, but the overall star wars duel atmosphere I think that's greater in SP.. don't know why, maybe the player's thinking is different from the AI one..

Moleculor
04-25-2002, 01:14 PM
Hopefully Raven will make MP like SP in a patch.

Usurper
04-25-2002, 01:40 PM
There is alot of skill involved in MP.
It just takes time.

After you get out of the "swinging randomly praying for a hit" phase,...you will start to notice what it takes to score a direct hit.

And dont let the people who use one move over n over and score many kills trick you into thinking the game requires no skill. That particular person just lacks in skill, that is all.

It is those that score hits consistantly at a high rate and land their hits where they want their hits to land that have tremendous skill.

It doesnt take much to figure out skill from spam.

*T¥RANITH*
04-25-2002, 02:32 PM
Yea absolutely true, there is a hell of a lot of skill in MP. It is really easy to beat someone who is spamming a certain move, and I can pick up what their style is within seconds if they don't make any sort of variety...
I am most scared of those that can change their tactics and style in a moment's notice and adapt quickly to the style used against them.
Last night I met this guy who was a real DFA spammer. All he did was that one move. We was playing NF, and after he used the move twice, all I did was back off, and start swinging red stance as soon as he did an attack. Then he would lunge at me, and i'd hack his head off as he was unable to move. That repeated about 10 times, till the match was over... I still can't figure out how someone could be so dumb as to not use any sort of variety, seeing as he was obviously losing...
Variety and adaptation is the best way to winning a duel :)
Ph33r those who can use every style well, and know when to use them (cough yours truly cough)

Jedi Howell
04-25-2002, 02:41 PM
lol

are you guys talking about graphically, the effects, or in style?

graphically, alot of the stuff could be ported over. I'm playing around with different saber flares. I got a really nice one, sorta looks like a muzzle flash. also, try downloading that Menace of the Sith mod; gives some nice graphical effects in MP. Although, I can't say I like the saber flare.

jh

Usurper
04-25-2002, 02:54 PM
I was talking about style and skill.
I am perfectly fine with the graphics as they are, I dont see anything wrong with them.

*T¥RANITH*:
We would probably have some awsome fights because I am always changing up my style between medium and strong, depending on the situation.

Skyro
04-25-2002, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Usurper
There is alot of skill involved in MP.
It just takes time.

After you get out of the "swinging randomly praying for a hit" phase,...you will start to notice what it takes to score a direct hit.

And dont let the people who use one move over n over and score many kills trick you into thinking the game requires no skill. That particular person just lacks in skill, that is all.

The problem I see here is that, as you said, those who lack in skill "score many kills." That is why some people are saying that to "score many kills," you don't have to be good at the game. Therefore, the game's objective (to get the highest score) doesn't take much skill... you've already agreed to this. That's the issue here. Everyone agrees that those with more skill can lay waste to those who don't, but that's not what this was about. The very fact that you don't have to possess any skill to, again, "score many kills" is the problem many people are trying to address.

Maybe everyone's still a newbie, and that's why it works for the skill-less. As deep as this game is, I feel it isn't deep enough for people to not grasp for this long. I don't know... what are your thoughts?

*T¥RANITH*
04-25-2002, 03:32 PM
In FFA servers this style might work. Swinging randomly around can score u a few kills.
I think what Usurper was getting at was that some people spam DFA into large groups and can rack up a lot of kills in not a lot of time. Also, as I pointed out above, anyone doing this in anything like a duel, or in an area in a FFA game will get their ass whupped by any half-baked Jedi out there.

Patton
04-25-2002, 05:19 PM
I'd like to see an option for duel-servers to use sp combat. The SP combat is different in that sabers cannot and will not pass through each other. Which means that if you swing your saber, and its still covering your body, and someone swings at you, the saber will still block it, albeit not as well, because you weren't totally ready for it.

The result? Beautiful fights with much more parrying and blocking than you see in the current MP fights. I think Raven said that they tried to work on MP and SP lightsabers at the same time to get them identical, but because of bandwidth constraints, the MP sabers had to be toned down.

So, here's hoping for a "high-bandwidth" saber pack.

DarthMark
04-25-2002, 05:29 PM
personally, i think mp saber fightin sucks

sp is so superior, alot of the time it actually feels like ur fightin in a movie, mp is so slow and its like playin baldur's gate alot of the time but in sp there are a lot more clashes and saber locks are smooth and so is the general fightin, if i want a good duel, i load up an old saved game from sp, like the fight against Tavion

Fyunch Click
04-25-2002, 05:33 PM
The question becomes, however, how MUCH bandwidth? The amount of data that would have to be passed back and forth would be immense.
Say you had 2 people logged into a dedicated server, right? They were both using a high speed connection, say 1mbit, The server has to constantly keep both clients updated with the exact position of the other client. This causes a spitload of traffic and ups the processor time, the amount of RAM used and the bandwidth requirements for the server. Next, the clients themselves are constantly spitting info back and forth clogging up their pipe to the server.
Now, to be honest, 1 megabit is great for websurfing and for basic internet gaming, but for high intensity network apps, it sucks. Period. Thats why we have Ethernet going up to Gigabit levels. Your average home connection will maybe get you 1/10th of a 10 Mb ethernet connection. Maybe.
In the world of networks that's dog slow.
The numbers just don't support the type of SP combat in MP.
If someone can do it, I'll be very impressed, I just don't see how they'll be able to.

*T¥RANITH*
04-25-2002, 08:23 PM
Yea v. true, my cable connection is 512Kb, which means roughly 1/2Mbit. Lol, 1/20th of the speeds you're talking about, although I do have a 100Mbit connection on my LAN :D that would prolly do the trick...
Most people either have 56K or cable (512K) nowadays. (some lucky sods have T3 at uni :P ) and these wouldn't be enough to do the kind of things
I like SP fighting too (well the looks of) but the actual skill involved, I believe, is completely different. In SP u tend to flail around pretty randomly trying to score a hit, because they almost always block you wherever you attack. In MP u have to know when to stay still for passive blocking, or when it's a good time to swing at them, and u also need to know roughly where ur saber is...
Imo MP should be kept the same... and if it were possible to make it similar to SP, I think the physics should be the same, just the visuals should be changed (ie u don't see ur saber going thru the enemy after it has been blocked, and it doesn't *actually* touch them) I don't think this would make much of a change to the amount of bandwidth used. But then again i'm not an expert on that kind of thing ;)

TrUeFoRcE
04-25-2002, 09:13 PM
the reason why saber battles in sp are better than in mp....is for 2 reasons basically...1 its a little bit different system but generally the same...also sp has somewhat of auto targeting so whoever u fight is always aimed on you also if u notice ur head sort of follows him, this makes for more accurate aiming also saber blocks etc... are alot more common in sp because in mp they can sometime cause very low fps...

Smood
04-26-2002, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by DarthMark
personally, i think mp saber fightin sucks

sp is so superior, alot of the time it actually feels like ur fightin in a movie, mp is so slow and its like playin baldur's gate alot of the time but in sp there are a lot more clashes and saber locks are smooth and so is the general fightin, if i want a good duel, i load up an old saved game from sp, like the fight against Tavion

Well I must say I like how this discussion is progressing... thanks for the feedback everyone. :)

Anyhow I must say that Darth Mark here has some real truth in his comments. I love MP fights... contrary to what he believes, however I must say that mp fights should have a advance effects options for those people who wish to try it. The servers running JK should simply have it enabled. Then people could decide to play like that.

Now one main reason I enjoy SP duels so much is what Mark said, it is like you are in the movies. I agree that multi does take skill, but I would not denote the skill required in SP. Remember when you fought the green reborn, with all level 2 saber abilities? If you do, you would remember the reborn striking you, and your arm flying back from the collision indicating the difference in abilities.

Furthermore you would remember how when you hit a saber sideways and it was deflected rapidly by a reborn, and you attacked again, you would spin in the opposite direction of the attack using the momentum from the deflection to strike on the unguarded side. THIS IS THE WAY DUELING WAS MEANT TO BE!!! I know many of you don't mind if duels are like this or not, but for those of you who enjoy the movie duels look carefully and you'll see that these are the tactics the Jedi and sith use. It is a much smoother, quicker and logical way to duel, and it looks a whole lot better!!!

So what am I trying to say? Well... I'am basically saying I would like and option of seeing sp effects in mp, and also enabling the sp fighting style, especially the aspect where ocassionally your saber is overpowered by a strong stancer or something of the sort and your arm flys back just barely hanging on to the saber.

I would definately appreciate some more feedback. THANKS.

- DIABLO
[jediknightii.net]
Staff Member

Skyro
04-26-2002, 03:18 AM
Absolutely! Well said.

Smood
04-26-2002, 07:03 PM
Thanks. Anyone else?

Evil_Ferret
04-26-2002, 08:01 PM
I personally think that MP sucks! Raven took all three stances and made them the same. the only difference between the stances is the damage inflicted by the blow, and the speed of the attack. Plus each stance only has 2 special moves!!!!!!! MP Sucks for JK2! im am vary dissapointed in Raven

Smood
04-26-2002, 09:19 PM
Wow... that's pretty extreme. I'am probablly as pleased with Raven's work as you are dissapointed. I believe that not only did Raven do an incredible job with all aspects of JO including the MP, but this game is among the best of games.

I just thought some minor tweaking in an option enabled version should be done... but that is definately one clear point of view and opinion.

Anyone else care to put in their two cents?

the 7th Jedi
04-26-2002, 09:40 PM
Raven once said that the MP 'physics' differed from SP since it would lag the system from all of its intense calculations......however, shouldn't it be possible in DUEL-type games since only two people fight at any given time?

perhaps they could add in the next patch SP physics in duel-type games.....or maybe even in other types of games such as FFA but WITH certain restrictions like number of players, ping rate, etc.

peace.

stfmonkey
04-27-2002, 12:17 AM
bump

Smood
04-27-2002, 03:45 PM
Repeat bump...

magis70
04-27-2002, 03:59 PM
Now,instead of crying about this,we should get organized and get a petition together for raven,well have a much better chance of making this happen.Now whos with me?!

msn magis70@hotmail.com

email esselink@telus.net

Lets do this boys,i dont have any experians with this,but im sure someone here does,so lets get it together...