View Full Version : Bots refuse to stop jumping... sods...

04-25-2002, 08:23 PM
Anybody know how I do the bot nav or information (or whatever) points? cos I sure as hell don't...

If you can help, please do... I can make great maps, or so I've been told...

:fett: Chris Carter :fett:

04-25-2002, 08:54 PM
I have the same problem, I've posted on three different forums, and never gotten a valid reply, I also tried emailing Raven to find out if it's even possible with this release of their toolkit but haven't gotten a reply from them.

maybe if enough people email them, one of us will get an answer.

if you do find the answer please let me know, I'd love to be able to incorporate route files for the bots with maps.

as a temporary fix until a way to create bot routes is found/released, you can load the map in SinglePlayer and spawn in NPC's. They seem to navigate the map perfectly without a route or .nav file.

although my map was only a single room, they were able to identify the playing area, and jump to higher levels to continue fighting. they also didn't jump around like headless chickens.

I know it's not ideal but it does give you some options for using a map or testing it's playability by yourself.

the purple one

04-25-2002, 11:07 PM
Well at least I know I'm not alone.

And if the worst comes to the worst, I have my brother's PC hooked up to mine by LAN, so I can just use him to playtest with...

'course I might not get to see what it looks like when I die, but never mind... :fett:

:ewok:-------:deathii: = :D

04-25-2002, 11:15 PM
Ok Great. Spawn NPCs...

Downloaded ffa_Carbonfreeze but the bloody thing will not load in SP.
.....1 missing sound sets!
(See Above)

ok That gives me no data as there is NOTHING above! So... Am I doing something wrong? Or do I need to load this in JKRad (I hate to touch someone elses map) and fix something?

04-25-2002, 11:18 PM
I think that's because the Carbon Freeze map used custom sounds instead of the default sounds, and they may not be supported in SP for some reason

that's just a guess though
wish I knew more about it.

the purple one

04-26-2002, 07:02 AM
WHen editing for Q3A, unless you compiled the map to run with bots using bspc to create an AAS file that bots used to navigate in maps. Bots were also heavily influenced by item placement.

I've looked at JK2rad and can see no such program to use, so am assuming that some of the new entities may do the trick.

Right click on a 2d view of the map and check out the myiad of selections. Most are familiar to Q3A users, but some aren't. I haven't experiemented with these yet, but one or more may be responsable for improving bot behavior.

point_combat for instance, might be worth experimenting with. Oh, and there's a couple of waypoint options there. Play with them, see what they can do for your bots :D

04-26-2002, 07:49 AM
Yeah, its no fun playing against bots in your maps. I hope something get done about it.

04-26-2002, 09:24 AM
It would help if Raven would release all the other .MAP files from Jedi Outcast, I always work stuff out better from an example, but the BSPs aren't much help.

My other car is an :atat:

04-26-2002, 10:38 AM
Just had an idea, the ctf_bespin.map file is supplied, shouldn't we be able work out how to sort out the bots from that?? DAMN!! Why do I have to be in work??? I can't wait to get home and work on my map!!

04-26-2002, 10:43 AM
Luckily, I am an admin and the eyes of who has what installed in the company... Thus I can "look the other way" when I install JKII, and the editors on my own machine.
"What I don't tell me can't hurt me."

04-26-2002, 11:03 AM
I don't think it's a matter of adding way points or entities to the bsp for bots to work on it.

if you look in the assets0.pk3 file you'll see a folder called "botroutes" and each MP map has a route file there with the .wnt extension.

it seems you need to create a separate file for the bots to navigate the MP maps correctly. Quake3 came with the file needed to create the external file, but I don't see anything like that in JKIIRadiant.

the map that Raven bsp'd for someone in the community to test the tools "Carbon Freeze" didn't have bot support either, so I'm assuming that since they used the JKIIRadiant to bsp that map as a test for the tools, and that they didn't add bot support, that it's possible that this version of the SDK doesn't support bot route files, and maybe they'll release what we need with a patch or toolkit update.

the purple one

04-26-2002, 12:35 PM
And as you may notice, this comes up after Raven kept holding back the JO Tools to make sure that everything was included on release... made a good job of that didn't they?

Then again the chances of getting a complete set of useful edting tools for ANY games are about the same as the chance of seeing a three headed monkey.


Hey! Where the hell did that come from?

04-26-2002, 12:36 PM
Just had a thought, I can't do this as I am currently at work, so I might try this when I get home unless one fo you guys tries it first -

Open the ctf_bespin map in JKII Radient - compile it as is, don't edit anything, then rename it (so that it doesn't clash with the ctf_bespin file in the assets0.pk3 file),

Then start a multiplayer game, open the map(go to console, type devmap xxxx - where xxxx is the name you changed it to), once in, spawn a bot and see if it jumps around like a psycho in a padded room?

If the bot acts normal, then the answer MUST be in that .map file, we just need to find it, I'm hoping this is the case, if the bot ends up looking like a 100m hurdler then we probably need to wait for another release of the tools with bot support.

Mal Brigand

04-26-2002, 12:55 PM
good idea brig, I just did that

I renamed the map file and compiled it, and guess what
the bots are still jumping fools on the map

as an added test, I took the route file for ctf_bespin and renamed it to the same filename as the new map file, and added it to the botroutes directory, to test it, and guess what, the bots ran normally after that.

so we have two options now:

1. either there IS a way to create the botroute files, but nobody has figured it out yet.

2. Raven didn't incorporate bot support into this version of the toolkit and we're all screwed until they release a patch or update for the toolkits (assuming they ever intend to let us add bot support to maps at all)


the purple one

04-26-2002, 01:44 PM
Well I just opened a bot route file (duel_bay.wnt) and *argh* it looks like coordinates or something. Have a look:

levelflags 7
0 0 0.000000 (-2336.000000 -24.000000 600.125000) { } 87.102173
1 0 0.000000 (-2248.913818 -22.330891 600.125000) { 71 72 73 } 61.925743
2 0 0.000000 (-2247.737793 39.583683 600.125000) { 72 } 115.939774
3 0 0.000000 (-2246.855225 153.248352 577.286560) { } 94.026985
4 0 0.000000 (-2245.737061 243.111023 549.636536) { } 79.344994
5 0 0.000000 (-2226.197510 318.816193 536.125000) { } 79.793770
6 0 0.000000 (-2161.569336 365.616241 536.125000) { } 74.112915
7 0 0.000000 (-2088.206055 376.130646 536.125000) { } 90.117432
8 0 0.000000 (-1998.447510 368.096039 536.125000) { } 58.003513
9 65536 4.000000 (-1940.925049 360.641235 536.125000) { } 87.653442
And that's just the first 9 lines of 148!

04-26-2002, 01:56 PM
What about adding an existing botroute file to the new maps? I have a funny feeling though that our bots wiill then zig when we want them to zag cos they think there is a pillar in front of them when really it's an X-Wing.....hmmmm.....

Mal Brigand

04-26-2002, 02:06 PM
I already tried doing that too

I renamed the pit route file to my map name, and the bots just ran into the walls endlessly until the map crashed

they don't like having invalid route files

the purple one

04-26-2002, 02:20 PM
Nice one for trying Purple. Looks like we're gonna have to wait for Bot support, unless a coder can make a small(ish) program whereby you can input the map schematics and dimensions (is that grabbable from the map file?) and then let the program work out some random routes for the bots.... I honestly don't know if that's feasible but it's an idea.

Mal Brigand

04-26-2002, 02:27 PM
Quake3 used a file called bspc that would generate a .aas file from the bsp, and calculate a bot route for you.

I had hoped that the .aas files and the .wnt files were the same type, and just different extensions.

but even if that were the case, the bsp files for Q3 and JKII are incompatible, I tried running the bspc file on my bsp for the new map I made, it just came up with incompatability errors and shut down.

so even that isn't a usable fix.

either there's a function of one of the tool programs that generates route files and we've just missed finding it, or there is no bot support for JKII mapping yet.

I did try emailing Raven and got no reply, maybe if others did too, someone would get a responce and we'd know for sure it was doable or not.

I've exhausted all my ideas for trying to get the bots to play on user made MP maps, and nothing has even come close to fixing it.

but like I've posted before, IF you can load the map in SP without errors, you can spawn NPC's and still practice on the map.

for some reason the NPC's seem to navigate the maps very well even without route files.

the purple one

04-26-2002, 05:19 PM
I e-mailed Changkhan and got this answer -

"We need to release a document that explains how to set up maps for bots. We're pretty busy with a couple other Jk2-related things right now, but when we get to the point where we're working on the tools release 2, that document will become available"

Ok, it CAN be done!! That's good news, more good news is that Raven will tell us how it's done, we just have to be patient! ;)

Now I'm curious as to what "other" JK2 related stuff they could be doing if it's not Tools related....hmmmmm.....

Mal Brigand