PDA

View Full Version : Poll: What lvl editor would you prefer for JK2?


Guardian Omega
04-26-2002, 08:38 PM
I chose Jed............

Arawyn
04-26-2002, 08:40 PM
I used to use JED for Jedi Knight and i became halfway decent with it, but i haven't used it in sooooooo long.

DaviJade
04-26-2002, 08:57 PM
Jed is dead.

Radiant is a much more powerful editor. You'll see once you get used to it. Don't expect to make good levels right away. Hell your first few levels probably won't even be released.

DigitalVapor
04-26-2002, 09:51 PM
My first few may never even get finished if I cant figure out how to get the !@#$% cylinder curves to bend to the shape of an endcap! I need ffa_deathstar style handrails for my catwalks

Dross
04-26-2002, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by DigitalVapor
My first few may never even get finished if I cant figure out how to get the !@#$% cylinder curves to bend to the shape of an endcap! I need ffa_deathstar style handrails for my catwalks

If you have a standard bevel curve, switch to xy view, press v and then grab the dots. You can now bend it to your liking. To make it a perfect endcap, make one and align it with it. Hope that makes sense!

VEGETA2K1
04-26-2002, 11:59 PM
what is jed? can it do curved stuff, and make maps for jk2? is it easy? is it like world craft at all? i currently uisng jkradiant, i guess its good, to many options for me, but mapping is simple, just gotta learn you program... thats how i see it atleast ^_^

Schizophrenic
04-27-2002, 12:17 AM
No Q3Radiant? This poll is invalid then.

I use Q3R and it works just fine. Much more stable than JK2Radiant.

JRA_Wolf
04-27-2002, 12:18 AM
ummm....JED is not possible in a quake3 powered game, since Q3 games use brush based levels, where as JK1 used space based levels, so unless the creator of JED makes a variant of Radiant...not gonna happen. Get used to Radiant, 'cause there ain't much else.

Anyways, GTKRadiant is my choice...

ripmage
04-27-2002, 03:08 AM
i know q3radiant is better, and the menus look so much better than jk2radiants, do u need quake to use q3radiant with jk2?

Guardian Omega
04-27-2002, 03:42 AM
Replace JK2 with QE

[MF]PheoniX
04-27-2002, 03:54 AM
Truespace 5 and 3dmax 4 :D

Tarison
04-27-2002, 04:47 AM
I'm not really sure on the difference between the different flavours of Radiant, though I can say this. I've had more luck with radiant in two days, than I ever had with JED in six months.

I find Radiant a lot easier to use. Aside from a bit of a learning curve with the way things are set-up, I'm on my way. I'd take a Radiant over JED any day.

Dross
04-27-2002, 05:46 AM
JK1 used the Quake Engine, so theoreticly you could do basic stuff, but no curves. QEradiant is the same thing as Q3radiant which JK2radiant is based from. GTK is a LOT better:

How about 3d freeroam, 64 undo levels, Undo something and it keeps tex alignment even and so many more options and fixes not to mention massive plugins and it runs better too :)
Someday GTK may have some support.

JK2radiant is only needed for textures, items, enemies, etc in Jedi knight 2

Gesthal
04-27-2002, 05:56 AM
Since many of you seem to like GTKRadiant better than JK2Radiant, and Im currently using JK2Radiant, I want to test GTK. But when you install it it just wants to be used with Q3A and RTCW, not JK2..how do you use it to make maps for JK2.. ?

Dross
04-27-2002, 06:12 AM
Heh, I just noticed JK2radiant doesn't even have a brush merge.. i noticed the sample maps also have a lot of intersects.. I take it these maps weren't optimized very well. I noticed teh texture aligning was way off too, this was noticable in game too. This is mainly due to the editor and it's lack of functions.

D'akt Sangwar
04-27-2002, 06:13 AM
if i had a choice, i would want sumthing similar to the map editor from the game 'Sacrifice' with that i could make decent maps, cos it was easy as hell
but these things are just crazy

Dross
04-27-2002, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by Gesthal
Since many of you seem to like GTKRadiant better than JK2Radiant, and Im currently using JK2Radiant, I want to test GTK. But when you install it it just wants to be used with Q3A and RTCW, not JK2..how do you use it to make maps for JK2.. ?

GTK does not support Jedi Knight. You can, however, install it and use it for brush editing. You would need to texture your whole level in 1 tex, or something. If you are comfortable in JK2radiant, don't worry about it. If you would rather use GTK for brush work (depends if you texture as you go along, I don't) then install it. The map files will be compatible and if you choose to texture at all, it just won't show up in JK2radiant. GTK has a lot more options for brush editing(merge, find intersects), as well as free look in 3d mode.

Later,

D

Schizophrenic
04-27-2002, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Dross
JK1 used the Quake Engine, so theoreticly you could do basic stuff, but no curves. QEradiant is the same thing as Q3radiant which JK2radiant is based from. GTK is a LOT better:

JK2radiant is only needed for textures, items, enemies, etc in Jedi knight 2

Jedi Knight 1 did NOT use the Quake engine. It used a custom engine made by Lucasarts. How somebody cannot tell the two engines apart is beyond me.


You don't need Quake 3 to use Q3Radiant. I really don't need JK2Radiant at all right now. The only things I probably would need it for is some of the Icarus level-scripting things which I believe require some funky things in JK2R. Right now, with Q3R, I'm able to do brush manipulation, textures, and entities, all for JK2. All I did was install it in base\Q3Radiant, then copy the entity files, the project files, and sof2map into that directory. Then I just edited the project files to use sof2map instead of q3map.


Originally posted by [MF]PheoniX
Truespace 5 and 3dmax 4 :D

You're a brave soul. :)

VEGETA2K1
04-27-2002, 01:10 PM
in my 2 days of mapping experice.. i find that jkeradiant, isnt very stable... is it possible to use this gkradiant(i hear very stable?) and manipulate it like Schizophrenic did?
like change paths etc.? cuz it really pissdes me off when i have done some thing really cool to my map, then all of a sudden, boom all gone!

chrispcarter
04-27-2002, 03:19 PM
JED RULES!!! (OK, ruled)

Hehe I want Build, now there was stability...

Dross
04-27-2002, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by chrispcarter
JED RULES!!! (OK, ruled)

Hehe I want Build, now there was stability...

hahaha.. yeah build ruled. No compiles either.

PurplWulf
04-27-2002, 04:40 PM
I'd love it if they fixed all the glitches in JK2Radiant and got it working

I'm used to mapping with H2ed and the shortcut keys and options are all pretty much the same, aside from shaders and curves.

the purple one

Darth Draugmahl
04-27-2002, 05:02 PM
LOL I want RuneEd for JKII......but since that won't happen, JK2Radient is fine for me. All these radient editors seem to me to be almost identical so I don't care which one I use as long as it works and doesn't bug out too much. Thank God for the autosave map is all I can say.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
04-27-2002, 05:46 PM
Saying Radiant is more powerful than Jed is well... wrong. Radiant works with a more powerful engine, so the results can look better. But there are things you can make in Jed that are impossible to make in Radiant simply due to the lack of grid control in Radiant.

The Truthful Liar
04-27-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
Saying Radiant is more powerful than Jed is well... wrong. Radiant works with a more powerful engine, so the results can look better. But there are things you can make in Jed that are impossible to make in Radiant simply due to the lack of grid control in Radiant.

Like what... :rolleyes:

Vorax
04-27-2002, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
Saying Radiant is more powerful than Jed is well... wrong. Radiant works with a more powerful engine, so the results can look better. But there are things you can make in Jed that are impossible to make in Radiant simply due to the lack of grid control in Radiant.

What do you mean grid controls? snaps for vector and vertex, adjustable grids? Radiant does those. What else are you thinking of.

I have never used Jed, but I find that hard to believe. I can't imagine anything that I could not build with a Radiant editor. I have seen photorealistic architecture developed in Radiant. Also, I hear that Jed and JK1 had no patch mesh capabilities, so there definetly are things that you can make with Radiant that you can't make with Jed.

Were the details in JK1 maps better then JK2 or more detailed? I never saw the game, so I can't say. Seeing that JK2 is new and based on Q3, I can't see it...but...

- Vorax

VEGETA2K1
04-27-2002, 11:11 PM
i hacvnt played jk1 yet, but from some screens, its a 8bit game, anfd graphics kinda looks sheaper then half life.

Guardian Omega
04-28-2002, 12:00 AM
I chose Jed because of one reason: the cleaving tool.

Emon
04-28-2002, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by DaviJade
Jed is dead.

Radiant is a much more powerful editor. You'll see once you get used to it. Don't expect to make good levels right away. Hell your first few levels probably won't even be released.

JED obviously is for JK, but a newever version would be far superior to Radiant. Radiant is buggy, it often crashes, it's texture browser sucks, and it has a really poor GUI.

When you become a JED master like I have you'll realize that it's WAY more flexable than any Radiant editor. I also hear UnrealEd and the Serious Engine editor are really awesome compared to Radiant as well.

Emon
04-28-2002, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Dross
JK1 used the Quake Engine, so theoreticly you could do basic stuff, but no curves. QEradiant is the same thing as Q3radiant which JK2radiant is based from. GTK is a LOT better:

How about 3d freeroam, 64 undo levels, Undo something and it keeps tex alignment even and so many more options and fixes not to mention massive plugins and it runs better too :)
Someday GTK may have some support.

JK2radiant is only needed for textures, items, enemies, etc in Jedi knight 2

You sir are VERY VERY WRONG. JK did NOT use the Quake engine at ALL! The Quake engine runs on OpenGL, Jedi Knight runs on the SITH engine which runs on DirectX 5.0. The SITH engine uses sector-based levels, where as Quake uses brushes.

Also, Q3Radiant is slightly different than QERadiant. QERadiant is the Quake II editor, Q3Radiant is an updated version.



Also, DeT-iQ is right about JED. Radiant is a pain in the ass for vertex snapping and manipulation in many cases, it has lots of limits on it. There are some things you can do in Radiant which you cannot in JED, but JED is far more flexible, faster, has a way better GUI, and is overall more powerful for it's engine than Radiant is for it's engine.

Jedi Howell
04-28-2002, 01:48 AM
JK1 is an 8 or 16 bit game(take you pic, it does both), with very low-poly preferences. It's not a pretty engine, but you can do a load of stuff with it. Make new entities without source code or compiling, for instance. And the cleaving tool was the a really great thing about JED.

on the jk2radiant subject, wtf is up with the lighting. I have a large desert scene, and I'm having a ton of trouble getting it to light properly. It's like the contrast is super high. Really bright right next to the light, nothing further away from it.

jh

jh

Emon
04-28-2002, 01:59 AM
The JK/SITH engine supports 16-bit textures, which is the prettiest part about it. It's alpha blending is horridly ugly and buggy, though.

Jedi Howell, there's a way to statically light your level. You might want to add some static light to most or all of your level, then add a light source, like from the sun, to add shadows. It would be more realistic this way, too.

Jedi Howell
04-28-2002, 02:17 AM
ok. err...how might i do that. just give me some general directions; im good at figuring things out once at the destination.

sorry; im used to the HL engine editing. quite n00b at anything particular to q3.

jh

Emon
04-28-2002, 02:31 AM
1. Radiant tutorial sites: http://www.planetquake.com/quake1/hosted/editing.shtml - http://planetquake.com/qworkshop3

2. Half-Life is actually based on the Quake I engine, and Quake III is Quake II with better graphics which is Quake I with better graphics... so in a way, you might have a little bit of experiance. :D

I'm so used to the ease and power of JED that it's hard switching to something so crappy as Radiant...argh.

Jedi Howell
04-28-2002, 02:35 AM
interesting...i thought HL was q2...

danke

jh

VEGETA2K1
04-28-2002, 03:00 AM
emon, your wrong about a few things, quake1 didnt run openGL untill a bit later when they relased a GL version, before thta it was bit more crappy..dont rememerb what it renderd with before...

also, half life uses NO quake in it...(as u stated ^_^)
buut,,, quake2, is not a better quake1, well.. in a way it is.. but its really not, they probably used LITTLE tiny bit of source form it.. but that pretty much it, quake3 is also no run on quake2... 2 different engines they are... again since theyr by jhon carmack(sp?) im guessing they are quit similar..

Vorax
04-28-2002, 05:25 AM
^^^ Actually Half Life was originally built on the Quake 2 engine.

It's even listed as a Quake engine product on ID's web site. Sierra licensed it and mod'd the heck out of it.

As for the complaints about Radiant, the biggest problems with the editor, and why it crashes, are usually memory related. It has memory issues, especially with JK2 because most of the textures are double sized over Quake 3 textures. JED would have probably had the same problem if it had used large sized images for textures. The textures you see in the editor are actually 2 times larger (unless you changed the preferences). Even though you are viewing them at 50% scale, those puppies are still massive That eats tons of your computers RAM. It's really an operating system problem. Windows says it can handle memory allocations, when really it can't. To get less crashes, upgrade your computers memory.

Once GTKRadiant is updated to handle JK2, you will see alot less bugs, they have a different strategy for memory management and it is better for brush rotations and curves. I use it for 90% of the map, then just do the final touches in JK2Radiant. I do my compiles using batch files.

I think once you JED guys get on to Radiant you will learn to like it. The power of what you can build with it is awesome. Just look at Quake 3 maps (or JK2 maps in some places...they really could have did alot more in many of the maps, but they are still impressive).

- Vorax

Gesthal
04-28-2002, 07:44 AM
So how much memory do you need? I have 576 MB of it, which is more than enough for most things, and JK2R still crashes all the time for me...

MilesTeg
04-28-2002, 09:56 AM
Since Ive worked with pure JORadiant, I know how good Gtk was. I think its better than Q3Rad. Im using version 1.2.6 with the assets0 in my quake directory and the shaders in base/scripts - thats enough for comfortable brushediting and texture manipulation. For compiling and bots Im still using JORadiant.

[QGA]Vertigo
04-28-2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by [MF]PheoniX
Truespace 5 and 3dmax 4 :D

HELL YEA !! :)

I've started with GTKRadiant a while ago, and simply, I don't like working with brushes... it's too restrictive IMO...

Could you do this with brushes ? :

http://vertigo.kicks-ass.org:10001/d3_1.jpg

And this ? :

http://vertigo.kicks-ass.org:10001/d3_2.jpg


(yes, I made that, for Descent 3 ;) )

:D :D

Wired
04-28-2002, 10:53 AM
I'd like to post a suggestion: UnrealEd :D

Phantomas
04-28-2002, 11:22 AM
is that a serious vote for JK2radiant...

Emon
04-28-2002, 11:47 AM
1. I was talking about the GLQuake version of Quake I that some source was taken from for Quake II.

2. Half-Life uses Quake II as you said, but in a way it does also use Quake I.

3. The textures aren't the problem... most JK2 textures are 512x512, most JK textures were 256x256 (you could go higher in software mode) and JED could handle even higher than 512x512, however like I said it gets funktified unless your running in software mode. JED just has one hell of an awesome GUI and design... it's really easy to build stuff really fast.

Also, I hear that UnrealED and the Serious Engine editor (using both sectors and brushes) are really awesome.

brigand1138
04-28-2002, 01:14 PM
I had a dabble at UnrealED, for some reason I couldn't grasp the whole "negative space/carving rooms out of a block" system. I find JKIIRadient easier, even though I'm having a lot of trouble with it!! ;)

Mal Brigand

Vorax
04-28-2002, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by [QGA]Vertigo


HELL YEA !! :)

I've started with GTKRadiant a while ago, and simply, I don't like working with brushes... it's too restrictive IMO...

Could you do this with brushes ? :

http://vertigo.kicks-ass.org:10001/d3_1.jpg

And this ? :

http://vertigo.kicks-ass.org:10001/d3_2.jpg


(yes, I made that, for Descent 3 ;) )

:D :D

Actually, you can build that very easily using Radiant, and it can be done in about 5 minutes (not kidding).


Here is something by Dubblin, one of our WLS mappers (he is awesome):
http://www.planetquake.com/images/image.asp?/quake3/features/lotw/01-08-06/lucid.jpg

Another, for the up comming WLS Map Pack:
http://wls.jediknightii.net/screenshots/shot0026.jpg

Here is something by Me for the WLS Map Pack (work in progress):
http://wls.jediknightii.net/screenshots/ctf_concrete5.jpg

To get a better idea of what is possible, visit:
Planet Quake (http://www.planetquake.com/quake3/features/lotw)

You can make anything in Radiant once you know it.

- Vorax

Darth Draugmahl
04-28-2002, 03:53 PM
Hey Vorax, what are the chances of me picking your brain for about a half an hour sometime? I am not a mapping n00b BUT I am new to mapping for q3. Most of this stuff is coming real easy,but I am having a problem wrapping my brain around a few things which could probably be easily resolved by someone who is clearly as well-versed in the editor as yourself.

VEGETA2K1
04-28-2002, 03:53 PM
bah! unrealED is stupid! its soo confusing, i'd rather work with a box, then work with a solid then carve my way htough...
but any who, Ithink jkradiant sux, cuz it doesnt work all that great... like it crashes, doesnt compile(for me) and many more...maybe thisw ill be fixed in next version? and its true the gui for it really does stink.. maybe they should hvae it more graphical, and user friendly....

Darth Draugmahl
04-28-2002, 04:29 PM
You'll only find that if someone other than the game designers make the editor. The game designers take whatever editor and slap together whatever changes they need to make to it to get it to do what they need it to do. They tweak it until it's stable enough for them to work with and then they get on with making the game. Raven is pretty good about releasing the tools they used and even trying to make them a little more stable for public consumption but the fact is still that they are in the business of making games, not editiing software.

Jedi Howell
04-28-2002, 04:58 PM
ack. not working. setup a shader for it, and still pitch black except for this one area, which should black, as there are no other lights in the level.

i have 640mb pc133, and radiant loads in 20sec, and has never crashed once on me.

jh

ArmchairAthlete
04-28-2002, 05:07 PM
I want WorldCraft 3.3! So powerful and user-friendly! Fast compiling! Arghh, if only it was JKII compatible somehow.

I could do enemies, lasers, glass, elevators, items, buttons, various doors, custom textures, breakable stuff, custom sounds, nice easy to make prefabs, teleporters... ahh so much! Can't do much of that know, or I just don't know how to easily.

Jedi Howell
04-28-2002, 11:02 PM
WC is nice, but Radiant has all the features of WC, without the pains. Sorta. I think. :P

WC is for HL and Q2 only. It doesn't support things like patches, shaders, or mirrors. You just can't use WC with Q3-based games. And I wouldn't want to.

jh

Vorax
04-29-2002, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Darth Draugmahl
Hey Vorax, what are the chances of me picking your brain for about a half an hour sometime? I am not a mapping n00b BUT I am new to mapping for q3. Most of this stuff is coming real easy,but I am having a problem wrapping my brain around a few things which could probably be easily resolved by someone who is clearly as well-versed in the editor as yourself.

Sure send me a PM and I will give you my MSN ;)

- Vorax

gumplunger
04-29-2002, 05:57 PM
Seems i may be the odd man out here, but i wanted to be able to use Quark with JO. The only problem is that quark's .map doesn't work with radiant's .map and no radiant means no compiled map and no entities and no curves. Damn. I still use quark for Half Life and Counter-Strike mapping though. Yeah, go Quark!

Tarison
04-30-2002, 12:19 AM
I've heard mention by some people on the forums that there is a new version of the editing tools coming out, with a few fixes to whatever people seem to be having problems with.

Anyone know if this is for real, or just wishful thinking?

Jafo
04-30-2002, 03:14 AM
Game developers have no interest in updating tools. Why would they? They used them and didnt update them for there own employees. GTK is stable and you can use it now untill it has "written" support for JK2 if you know what your doing. For a tutorial see Jedi Knight 2 Editing (http://jk2ed.jediknightii.net) JK2radiant is based off of Qeradiant beta 1.0 build 147. Thats about a 2 year too 3 year old set of tools. You can't use JED, or WorldCraft. Unless you like building a box which no one will play in. GTK will support JK2 soon, if you don't use it we look forward too not playing your map. Because when it comes down too it only good mappers use GTKradiant period when it comes too the Quake III engine.

JMH_Link
04-30-2002, 03:36 AM
I'd like to see something much easier then the programs there are now. Like in JK1 there was a guy that made the JkEdit really easy that program(JkEdit) took a little under a week to learn but i tried Jed for almost a year and i still haven't learned a thing about it.