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tempest8008
04-29-2002, 10:21 AM
Just wondering if anyone is interested in creating a list of moves and their counter-moves, including Force powers (light vs dark) and Saber moves.

Or, for that matter, if anyone knows of such a list that is already setup?

We could start out like this:


Move - Force Push

Counter-move - Keep your Force level as high as possible and face your attacker to block.

Comments - Moving, attacking, and jumping all leave you at the mercy of a Pusher. According to Raith, your Health level should not affect if you can be Pushed or not, it is your Force level that matters.

Originally posted by BigMexican
using a force power leaves you open the same way as a weapon does. running allows a push/puller to move you slight amounts, such that they can catch up to you, or perhaps even push/pull you off a ledge with enough attempts, or if you're close enough to the edge. a push can do damage if you push someone into a solid object, and can deflect missiles.

tempest8008
04-29-2002, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by tempest8008
Move - Force Push

Counter-move - Keep your Force level as high as possible and face your attacker to block.

Comments - Moving, attacking, and jumping all leave you at the mercy of a Pusher. If your Health is low, you are more likely to be knocked down. [/B]


If you want to add or refute anything, quote the post you want to comment on, and add your own comments.

Raith
04-29-2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by tempest8008
If your Health is low, you are more likely to be knocked down.

I dont think health makes any difference, Force Meter does though as you cant push back

tempest8008
04-29-2002, 10:30 AM
Thanks for the input, Raith.

Anything you can add to the list? Doesn't have to be proven scientifically, just stuff that you've tried that works...

BigMexican
04-29-2002, 10:35 AM
using a force power leaves you open the same way as a weapon does. running allows a push/puller to move you slight amounts, such that they can catch up to you, or perhaps even push/pull you off a ledge with enough attempts, or if you're close enough to the edge. a push can do damage if you push someone into a solid object, and can deflect missiles.

tempest8008
04-29-2002, 11:03 AM
Move - Death From Above (DFA)

Counter-move - Get out of the friggin' way!

Comments - Most of the time they will be leaping up and toward you, you can crouch and roll under them, or do a backflip, or a back-roll. ANYTHING to get out from under that 'saber.

Originally posted by Raith
You can Push, Pull (Quite Dangerous), Grip, Mind Trick a DFA'er easily

Raith
04-29-2002, 11:10 AM
You can Push, Pull (Quite Dangerous), Grip, Mind Trick a DFA'er easily

GF cReEpEr
04-29-2002, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by tempest8008
Move - Death From Above (DFA)

Counter-move - Get out of the friggin' way!

Comments - Most of the time they will be leaping up and toward you, you can crouch and roll under them, or do a backflip, or a back-roll. ANYTHING to get out from under that 'saber.



Or, MED stance, crouch... when opponent's saber is over head hit attack (follow player into air with crosshair at all times)... will affectivly block DFA if timing and position is correct & if your Mana is above +50 or so (will cause them to deflect bacwards or to side), less than +50 (you will take damage), less than +25 (your a saber shish-ka-bob)...

Have accomlished this numerous times, but is most effective against DFA whores... (since they get kinda predictable after the first 100+ times of using it)

SnowMongoose
04-29-2002, 02:54 PM
My prefered method for dealing with DFAers is quite simple.

I push them away until they realize that they arent gonna get close to me w/ the DFA.
(Pushing rocks..I have right click as push!)
I also like kicking them to death.....its sooo fun to piss off idiots who only know one move...I love it!
(Push works esp well on maps with large drops.... push em off every time they do it)

Good luck vs those idiot DFA spammers!

Snow

Blank1234
04-29-2002, 04:16 PM
the best counter I've found is to DFA yourself. Try to position yourself far enough away, that their DFA will land a few spaces in front of you. Start up your strong swing just a second or two after theres, when they jump and just about to land, you jump and land on their head before they can flip backwords or recover.

Just don't do it too early, or else you'll collide in mid-air, and usually the person who started the animation first will get the kill (he'll be under you, but his saber is above his head so you die).

If you misjudged the distance and think his DFA will hit, you can cancel out your strong swing into a side/backwords roll.

Blank

Icebreaker
04-29-2002, 10:46 PM
Presuming it's duel mode... Just some of my experiences...

Move: Light special attack

Counter: Strong special attack
Comment: If you predicted that he will do a LS (Light Special), ie, he is crouching in blue, then this will take him out in 1 hit.

Counter #2: Jump backwards, saber throw.
Comment: This is one of the most effective, although not the most lethal, recover move. While his saber is in the air he won't be able to block the throw.

Counter #3: Medium 3 hit combo. Foward, left, right.
Comment: While you may take some damange, the 3 hit combo (Moves up with a downward attack, immeadiately swings left, then right.) will be worth it. In most cases, he will die from it.

---

Move: Medium special attack

Counter: Light special attack air mode.
Comment: Jump into the air, crouch and attack while in blue do to a 2 hit light special attack while in the air. If you are lucky, you can jump back again and saber throw.

Counter #2: Step back, saber throw.
Comment: Calculate precisely to be just out of his reach, the medium special will take a second to recover. If you are out of his range but close enough, you can land about 2 - 3 throws on him.

---

Move: Strong special attack

Counter: Jump back, saber throw.
Comment: You have no choice but to do this. If you get close, even if you think the attack is over, and touches his saber, you will most likely die.

Counter #2: Medium 3 hit combo (foward, left, right)
Comment: Usually after a strong attack, he is still on red and you have the time to land this combo on him before he swings once. Just be sure that the special attack is FINISHED.



Not all of this may work 100%, but works most of the time for me.

ahgu
04-30-2002, 04:38 AM
Counter Heavy Special...

1 of the many ways is to use Light lunge (crouch+forward+att)
but the thing u gotta take note is the distance...
too far off and u're dead...
i normally do dis when i hit him with a heavy swing...
and he goes to hp25...its a NF duel server
normally when someone is at hp25 and u're full
he'll DS you....so get a gd distance...
when he swings his LS...crouch and when the DS comes...
do the lunge and aim high...

its not that easy and its pretty risky...
but i like to do it...cos its coolz...
keke:p

Dracofyre
04-30-2002, 04:44 AM
If you want to stop a DFA spammer then the only effective way I've found is to not get them to do it. It's a relativly simple affair that basically has you dodge when they do the DFA and leaving a trip mine or 4 right where you originally were. Force speed helps a lot here. They eventually learn to find something else to spam.

leelink
04-30-2002, 07:17 AM
if someone does the DFA just step to the side of them and then do a strafe sidekick and move in for the kill with a heavy stance swipe down thier middle. 90 % of the time after you do the sidekick they will be laying on the ground. A couple of these and DFA spammers will think twice before using the move on you. you have to time the kick so that you are kicking them right as they are getting up. it takes some practice but once perfected the DFA move can stand for DOOMED F**KER IN AIR. MOHAHAHAHA

tempest8008
04-30-2002, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Icebreaker

Move: Light special attack

Counter: Strong special attack
Comment: If you predicted that he will do a LS (Light Special), ie, he is crouching in blue, then this will take him out in 1 hit.

Counter #2: Jump backwards, saber throw.
Comment: This is one of the most effective, although not the most lethal, recover move. While his saber is in the air he won't be able to block the throw.

Counter #3: Medium 3 hit combo. Foward, left, right.
Comment: While you may take some damange, the 3 hit combo (Moves up with a downward attack, immeadiately swings left, then right.) will be worth it. In most cases, he will die from it.

---

Move: Medium special attack

Counter: Light special attack air mode.
Comment: Jump into the air, crouch and attack while in blue do to a 2 hit light special attack while in the air. If you are lucky, you can jump back again and saber throw.

Counter #2: Step back, saber throw.
Comment: Calculate precisely to be just out of his reach, the medium special will take a second to recover. If you are out of his range but close enough, you can land about 2 - 3 throws on him.

---

Move: Strong special attack

Counter: Jump back, saber throw.
Comment: You have no choice but to do this. If you get close, even if you think the attack is over, and touches his saber, you will most likely die.

Counter #2: Medium 3 hit combo (foward, left, right)
Comment: Usually after a strong attack, he is still on red and you have the time to land this combo on him before he swings once. Just be sure that the special attack is FINISHED.


Great stuff Icebreaker. I just formatted it a bit to make it look 'purty'. If anyone else has stuff like this to add, I'd love to see it in this thread. I'd love to see anyone with ideas on countering Grip or Lightning too (received a lot of requests for those last two).

tempest8008
04-30-2002, 08:39 AM
Wow, I didn't realize that people hated DFA'ers that much.

It's a valid, non-cheating move, and I think we've proven here that anyone worth their salt can defend against it if they are quick.

Personally, I have no problem with people using DFA unless that's ALL they use. Of course, if that's the case, then they are gib-bits....

It's all about balance. Can a person in the middle of a DFA defend against gun attacks? Or a lobbed Thermal detonator? I don't think so....

ArtifeX
04-30-2002, 08:57 AM
http://antisabercode.50megs.com/

2 guides that will answer your questions.

Icebreaker
04-30-2002, 06:46 PM
I don't really beleive in that guide, because I don't think that the only stance that is calssified as "experienced" or "thoughtful" is strong. All stances are usefull in most cases. If you stick with the "experienced" stance during your entire JK2 life then you won't be as "experienced" as you think.

Icebreaker
04-30-2002, 06:59 PM
As for Lightning and Grip, I don't think these are as lethal, they are just annoying.



Move: Force Grip
Counter: Push/Pull
Comment: It's not rocket science, you just break out of his grip by pushing or pulling him. This should be practiced to a point where it becomes a reflex.
Follow-up: If you used pull, then saber throw at him. If you used push, go to red and do a special.


Move: Force Lightning
Counter: Force Grip
Comment: If your opponent doesn't use drain, then you should grip him. The reason is that if you can estimate that he used enough lightning to prevent him from pushing or pulling, your grip will do more dmg than the remaining of his lightning. Just don't drop him into a cliff, not often.

ldeviator
05-01-2002, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by Icebreaker
I don't really beleive in that guide, because I don't think that the only stance that is calssified as "experienced" or "thoughtful" is strong. All stances are usefull in most cases. If you stick with the "experienced" stance during your entire JK2 life then you won't be as "experienced" as you think.

I totally agree.. I think that a good lighter stance player can give those "experienced" and "thoughtful" people a run for their money. It's all what you practice.

Just like in any other game... you can hit someone in the head with a rocket and do tons of damage all at once, but suffer slow reload and be open to attack, or you can use a pistol and do a little damage over time, all the time... it's all how you work it. :)

kaeris
05-01-2002, 05:56 AM
I've found that against DFA spammers I can just sidestep as they're doing it (it's really quite easy to tell) and throw my saber at them. Do it to them a couple of times, and they pretty much abandon the DFA and try some other tactic.

BigMexican
05-01-2002, 06:07 AM
when you sidestep though, you really gotta get outa the way, otherwise they just turn and still get you.

and all stances are useful, you cant rule any out as completely useless.

tempest8008
05-01-2002, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by ArtifeX
http://antisabercode.50megs.com/

2 guides that will answer your questions.


Great guide for the Force Powers, although I do admit the 'Saber guide seems a bit one-sided.

I would recommend reading this, however, as it does contain a lot of good tips on the Force and for 'Sabre fighting...and for defending against the various moves.

I think all ArtifeX is saying with the use of the Strong stance is that, used correctly, it is the most damaging stance. If you're on Strong and just touch someone while swinging, even if it's the back swing, you'll cause a LOT more damage than on Light or Medium.

The major drawback with it is the recovery time. I regularly kill DFA'ers or dueling a Strong Stancer just by timing my attacks well.

KingJohn
05-01-2002, 02:56 PM
__________________________________________________
Counter Heavy Special...

1 of the many ways is to use Light lunge (crouch+forward+att)
but the thing u gotta take note is the distance...
too far off and u're dead...
i normally do dis when i hit him with a heavy swing...
and he goes to hp25...its a NF duel server
normally when someone is at hp25 and u're full
he'll DS you....so get a gd distance...
when he swings his LS...crouch and when the DS comes...
do the lunge and aim high...
_________________________________________________

How do you know when their at hp25?

Jhenne
05-01-2002, 03:17 PM
as though there arent enough already, here are 2 more dfa counters.

1. heavy stance, right strafe swing. initiate it as they start the jump, stay out of the way and then demolish them when they land on the ground. this swing has longer range than the saber in the ground, so with a little practice it's very easy to defeat dfa with this move.


2. medium stance. left strafe swing. to pull this one off, you run past them on the side while they are in the air. done correctly you will slice them in midair. not as powerful as #1 and harder to pull off, but more stylish looking =p

tomservo51
05-01-2002, 03:58 PM
Id like to hear some good counters for drain spammers! Anyone?

tempest8008
05-01-2002, 04:52 PM
Move: Force Drain
Counter: Absorb/Drain, Missile Weapons
Comment: As soon as they begin to Drain you, switch on Absorb. YOU will drain THEM. If they are in range to Drain you, you can Drain them.

While they are using Drain, they can't defend with the 'sabre. Pull out something with rapid fire (the Repeater or alt-fire on the rifle) and take some chunks out of them.

Jhenne
05-01-2002, 06:35 PM
my counter to drain is drain =/