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View Full Version : Massive new Force and Saber guides (updated!)


ArtifeX
04-30-2002, 08:34 AM
Anyone interested in extremely exhaustive dissections of both the Force Powers and Lightsaber Fighting moves should check out the new link:

http://antisabercode.50megs.com/

Make sure to email me any comments or just reply to this thread.

Tarus
04-30-2002, 08:37 AM
I glanced at the saber page but didn't bother to read anything else...its basicly the same as every other saber guide out there.

ArtifeX
04-30-2002, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Tarus
I glanced at the saber page but didn't bother to read anything else...its basicly the same as every other saber guide out there.

Make sure to check out the Force guide. There's tons of new info in there.

hydro[/jedi]
05-01-2002, 07:39 PM
Force Jump onto a high precipice and taunt your opponent into following you. When they jump, wait as long as possible then Push them. This is a great way to get them to squander their Force Pool and they will likely take falling damage.

OMG. get in the jail.

leelink
05-01-2002, 07:48 PM
ArtifeX, are you the same artifex thats in the Joc clan?

Warzdak
05-01-2002, 08:31 PM
lol, red/strong stance is lame. Everyone is doing that same move over and over again. Yes, most of the people you see winning is using this stance. Why? because its lame and easy. You all look like a bunch of jumping barbarian idiots. Bring it! I love dancing circles around you lame f--ks!

dkc4C
05-02-2002, 04:35 AM
It's a lot better than "every other saber guide out there" in my opinion.

I love dancing circles around you lame f--ks!

Ok. If I want to dance I'll use another stance, but to kill I still prefer Strong.

BrainStorm
05-02-2002, 10:44 AM
I read them both. The sabre guide is excellent if you are looking to rack up lots of kills.

The force guide was the best part IMHO. There are a few tricks in it that I can't wait to use. I might even run around with my lightsabre clipped to my belt for a while!

Falryx
05-02-2002, 02:01 PM
I've done some testing vis a vis the force guide -- and I think there's two things that aren't accurate -- more may come as I experiment with stuff s'more. ;)

(1) push negates pull and vice versa

We've done testing with this ourselves and found that pull negates pull and push negates push. More over if someone has push 3 and you have push 2, expect to get pushed around.

(2) force seeing enables the entire team to benefit

Unfortunately we didn't see this benefit. Is it supposed to? Regardless of the range when Force Seeing was activated, I was the only character (with FS of 3) to gain benefit from the power.

As a note -- Team Heal also modifies the amount you heal. Level 2 heals 45 points of damage and level 3 heals about 50.

ArtifeX
05-02-2002, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Falryx
I've done some testing vis a vis the force guide -- and I think there's two things that aren't accurate -- more may come as I experiment with stuff s'more. ;)

(1) push negates pull and vice versa

We've done testing with this ourselves and found that pull negates pull and push negates push. More over if someone has push 3 and you have push 2, expect to get pushed around.


Yes, I've been doing some testing as well and came to the same conclusion. Unfortunately, the in-game power descriptions are wrong. They clearly state that Push counters Pull and vice versa. I'll be making that change soon.


(2) force seeing enables the entire team to benefit

Unfortunately we didn't see this benefit. Is it supposed to? Regardless of the range when Force Seeing was activated, I was the only character (with FS of 3) to gain benefit from the power.



If that's so, then again, same problem, take a look at the in-game Force Power descriptions from the main menu. They say that the team benefits. I'll check it out.



As a note -- Team Heal also modifies the amount you heal. Level 2 heals 45 points of damage and level 3 heals about 50.

________
ArtifeX

Aegis
05-02-2002, 02:11 PM
I personally think your guide is rather bias. The strong is not the best stance, and is surely not the one used by the pros. there is nothing "elite" about using one hit kills. If anything, the most experianced players use a combination of all three, often only using the strong stance for an opener, or for a definite finisher.

Indreju
05-02-2002, 03:45 PM
Actually I usually only use the DFA Strong stance for an opener. I can usually get it off from within Duel range without a hitch, and if they don't move, I get a quick win. This is in reference to duels in FFA game types, not Duel game types.

I use the light stance occassionally for the lunge move, or when I'm in the middle of big melee and don't want to be left vunerable for long periods of time if I attack.

The middle I use equal with the heavy in one vs one situations.

Kurgan
05-02-2002, 03:49 PM
Some interesting observations there guys, I've pretty much taken the in-game descriptions as gospel, not having verified all of them to account for mistakes.

Let me know what you find and I can update my own guide accordingly (assuming I don't figure it out on my own before that).

PS, Artifex, finally got your link uploaded. ; )

ArtifeX
05-02-2002, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Aegis
I personally think your guide is rather bias. The strong is not the best stance, and is surely not the one used by the pros. there is nothing "elite" about using one hit kills. If anything, the most experianced players use a combination of all three, often only using the strong stance for an opener, or for a definite finisher.

Are you playing in any ladders right now? I have yet to see anyone use anything but Strong stance in a Full Force Duel.

I never said anything about Strong being "elite". I am just saying it's more powerful when looked at objectively.

I would guess from your post that you mainly play no-force matches. In those, the Light lunge and some of the medium swings become more valuable, but their shorter range and inability to pierce defenses still makes them weaker. I actually use an occasional Light lunge or Medium finisher to break up the rhythm of my attacks.

Aegis
05-02-2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX


Are you playing in any ladders right now? I have yet to see anyone use anything but Strong stance in a Full Force Duel.

I never said anything about Strong being "elite". I am just saying it's more powerful when looked at objectively.

I would guess from your post that you mainly play no-force matches. In those, the Light lunge and some of the medium swings become more valuable, but their shorter range and inability to pierce defenses still makes them weaker. I actually use an occasional Light lunge or Medium finisher to break up the rhythm of my attacks. Okay, fair enough, and yes I do tend to play more no force duels (HFE Kandyland FFA), but that doesn't mean I'm a stranger to force duels. But, in my experiance, I have learned that the heavy is not as effective as you make it out to be. In many of the matches I have played, where I have been relentlessly spammed by heavy jumpers, and push/pull/grippers, I have rarely lost. There are too many ways around the heavy stance to a skilled play. I have never ben bested by someone using the heavy stance in a duel in which force was allowed. I have always managed to exploit the slow recovery time, and obscene berth the swings provide me with. Basically, I see a heavy swing, and they have given me the oppertunity to make three or four easy attacks (light stance) right when they are left open.

Granted that everyone has their own style, and I'm not knocking any, but what I am saying is that the mobility, and speed of the other stances are more effective, especially when paired with the force. The heavy just leaves you open too often, especially if you miss a DFA, or other such move.

ArtifeX
05-03-2002, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Aegis
...Basically, I see a heavy swing, and they have given me the oppertunity to make three or four easy attacks (light stance) right when they are left open.

Granted that everyone has their own style, and I'm not knocking any, but what I am saying is that the mobility, and speed of the other stances are more effective, especially when paired with the force. The heavy just leaves you open too often, especially if you miss a DFA, or other such move.

I'm still open to challenges. I would actually love to get beaten in a FF match by a Light-styler--It'd make me quite happy, actually. Email me at arsartifex@msn.com if you'd like to give it a shot.

BigMexican
05-03-2002, 11:16 AM
i generally open with strong stance until i hit them, then switch to blue to try for a quick lunge to finish them off. if i miss a few times, then i'll switch to yellow and use a few combos to finish them off. if they're picking up health or healing then i might switch back to red to dish some more damage.

this is in a duel/ffa-1on1 by the way, in general ffa i stick to red stance only, with the odd finishing lunge. in capture the flag, i use blue stance for the added defence when i have the flag, since i dont do much attacking :)

Raptorz922
05-04-2002, 03:07 PM
Could you put these guides on here as an attachment or something? The monthly bandwith on the site has been exceeded.

ArtifeX
05-05-2002, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Raptorz922
Could you put these guides on here as an attachment or something? The monthly bandwith on the site has been exceeded.

I'm aware of the problem. I'm talking with several groups about hosting the new ASC site. It'll be up in again within a few days.

"Patience. Patience,..." --Yoda

BrainStorm
05-06-2002, 01:30 PM
Excellent guides. I'm glad I printed them.

I used one of the DFA counters with great success. I almost want them to leave the stance alone now.

I'll be waiting for the post-patch re-release of both guides with great anticipation.

Blank1234
05-06-2002, 01:44 PM
Probably should of made a new topic but oh well, too late now :)

Anyways, I was playing around with absorb level 2 on a jedi knight force setting (so I could get protection level 2... don't ask). I noticed that level 3 lightning would still damage me, and when I was gripped and activated absorb I got Force Drain-style lag, and wasn't released for 3-5 seconds... hard to say with the lag. I wonder if absorb vrs lightning/grip (and maybe drain) works the same way as pull vrs pull, and push vrs push? Where a lower level absorb won't counter a higher level lightning/grip.

Or maybe it's just buggy with absorb level 2? Thoughts?

Blank

ArtifeX
05-06-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Blank1234
Probably should of made a new topic but oh well, too late now :)

Anyways, I was playing around with absorb level 2 on a jedi knight force setting (so I could get protection level 2... don't ask). I noticed that level 3 lightning would still damage me, and when I was gripped and activated absorb I got Force Drain-style lag, and wasn't released for 3-5 seconds... hard to say with the lag. I wonder if absorb vrs lightning/grip (and maybe drain) works the same way as pull vrs pull, and push vrs push? Where a lower level absorb won't counter a higher level lightning/grip.

Or maybe it's just buggy with absorb level 2? Thoughts?

Blank

Anything less than Absorb level 3 won't protect you completely from force-powered attacks. Level 1 absorbs 33%, level 2 66% and level 3 100%.

just so you know, any power that produces a colored aura on a player model effectively doubles the polycount of that player model when the aura is visible. Try cutting down the model detail in your video settings.