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GooglyMoogly
05-01-2002, 06:01 PM
I run a server (I rent it so it costs me MONEY!). Last night I was playing with a full crowd when 2 players started abusing the heavy stance. After a short while all the players had left except the heavy spammers (who, of course, had the highest scores).

I want everyone to have a good time when they play on my server, but after witnessing this I have come to realize that heavy abuse DOES ruin the game. As a result I have decided to kick heavy abusers from the game if I witness such lameness.

I want to encourage skillful play and good times on my server and the current state of the heavy doesn't lend itself to that scenario. I generally don't have a problem killing heavy abusers, and I really do think that it is a valid option, but if the actions of a few ruin the experience for the many I feel I need to take action.

Spare me all the "you can counter", "you are lame", "it's a game" responses as I've heard them all a million times before. The bottom line here is that the gaming experience for players that want to actually PLAY the game and not reduce it to a heavy-whore-fest is ruined by those that have no respect for other players.

The debate on heavy has been beaten to death, so I'll not address it here other than to state that I do feel it's not conducive to fun play (unless of course you are the abuser, you must be having fun).

If you want to use heavy go ahead...but there is a point when it becomes abusive and if that occurs, you're gone..so sorry.

Until a better solution comes along, abusive, counter-productive gameplay will be dealt with a swift server kick to the arse.

Goodbye!

Dvlos
05-01-2002, 06:04 PM
Whatever I'm tired of all the crying... I have no problem switching styles and still being in the top 3 scorers.. What next

GODDAMN HEAL ABUSERS!!!!!!


:atat: :atat: :atat: :atat: :atat:

Xanthos
05-01-2002, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by GooglyMoogly
Spare me all the "you can counter", "you are lame", "it's a game" responses as I've heard them all a million times before. The bottom line here is that the gaming experience for players that want to actually PLAY the game and not reduce it to a heavy-whore-fest is ruined by those that have no respect for other players.




Well yes you can counter unless your a newb. and as for the gamin experiance of other players, if they can't take heavy stance, thats great. Then they suck, they are newbs too. No one complains about heavy unless they are too @#%@# bad to counter it. And thats pretty much how it is :).

:jawa

GooglyMoogly
05-01-2002, 06:17 PM
The point is people didnt bitch about these guys, they just LEFT THE GAME. So here I was left to fight two heavy spammers. I do fight them, but the fights are boring, since I can avoid the stupid moves all day long, it forces me to use the same lame counter tactics over and over and over and thats not my idea of fun.

Whether it's the inability of heavy victims to handle it or the inability of heavy abusers to actually use some variety is not the point here.

My personal feelings towards heavy are rather ambiguous, but when my server goes from a full load to 3 people in a matter of 10 minutes, I think that signifies something!

Xanthos...I can counter heavy just fine.

Dvlos
05-01-2002, 06:21 PM
Then what you are saying is you are playing against 2 lamers?

No one likes that.. it has nothing to do with heavy style, just 2 lame players. Same as people who hide and just force push people into holes... repeatedly, or camp, or whatever...

Lameness exists.. boot the lamers... not the heavy stance.

GooglyMoogly
05-01-2002, 06:26 PM
Dvlos...yes that is my intention...I'm not going to boot all heavy users...I've met a few that actually use it well. I'm going to boot the players whose style impedes the enjoyment of the other players on the server.

GooglyMoogly
05-01-2002, 06:30 PM
I know Im posting alot to my own thread, but I want to draw one more analogy.

Imagine a baseball team full of players with the power of a Mark MacGuire. Sure...all those home runs would be fun for a while, but soon the spectacle would wear off and the play would become boring. "Look out...here comes another long ball!"

Not an entirely great analogy, but the same-old same-old just gets...well....old.

Pvt_Dancer
05-01-2002, 06:36 PM
And thats pretty much how it is .

He accepts it... just wants you to remember those exact words when you get booted off a server because the admin doesn't like your repeated overhead heavy slash.

Rogue74
05-01-2002, 07:39 PM
abusing the heavy stance


Unless this meant that they were excessively using the lunge move and not just staying in heavy stance then I say quit whining about it.

Your post made you sound like a big hypocrit because you're obviously "abusing" either light or medium style if you don't use strong stance. I think servers need to start kicking out all the morons who just run around swinging wildly, which I've seen more medium stance people doing anyway.


Besides fighting two "heavy lamers" is no problem if you have any skill in the game.


Anyone that would kick anybody from a server that is not doing things that are major bad is just really petty. I can't win so I'm gonna kick you!

GooglyMoogly
05-01-2002, 08:05 PM
Using yellow or blue all the time is not the same as using heavy all the time. How can anyone play this game and say that?. Heavy is borked..MOST players that I see don't use it skillfully but rather use it like a BFG.

I have no problem with players that rotate styles and kill with the heavy as long as it's not their sole tactic. I'm not whining about heavy since I've OWNED many of these players in the past (ho-hum).

I'm whining about the fact that when misused it ruins the play experience for other players. Since I am paying for this server and for other people to enjoy it, I owe it to myself and the players to ensure a fun atmosphere. Anything I see that creates an unpleasant experience for other players will be dealt with.

With all the posts on this topic I still find it amazing there are still those that defend it. After plaing online games for a while I think we all develop a sense for players that are just "ganks". You now the type, no-holds barred all-out I'm gonna find the most damaging weapon and use it all the time so I can win player.

I'll usually spend some time just watching the game and how people play. If I see this sort of behavior continuing for half the game then I'm gonna kick you. Not because I can't fight it, but because I don't want to end up with a server full of people whoring these styles. It's simply not fun.

P.S. I don't play to win...I play to have good, exciting fights. It just so happens my idea of a good exciting fight is not heavy whoring. I'm just as happy winning a game as I am getting 4 good bouts in. It's the quality not the quantity.

Swingman
05-01-2002, 08:07 PM
OMG, kicking people for figthing the way they want to fight. That is LAME.

You kick people for cheating, hacking, typing crap to everyone instead of fighting, etc

Not cause you don't like their fighting style.

Everyone does what is fun for them and what they are good at.

Heavy stance is not better then medium or light stance, it's different.

I use heavy stance cause i am good at it. It takes SKILL to predict where they'll move next so you can slow swing at them cause you definitely can't swing at where they are currently because they'll move by the time the swing comes around

plus, if you miss you're open to attack. Cry me a river about heavy stance, it's not overpowerful (and no i don't use that stupid lunge move on heavy stance, it's leaves the person to open for a counter attack - and it's easily sidestepped)

Kissamies
05-01-2002, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Rogue74
Besides fighting two "heavy lamers" is no problem if you have any skill in the game.

Anyone that would kick anybody from a server that is not doing things that are major bad is just really petty. I can't win so I'm gonna kick you!
-Sigh-
Read. Comprehend. Post.

He's not complaining how those heavy users are unstoppable godlike juggernauts that must be kicked so he can have any kills at all. He's complaining how those heavy users scare his other (possibly less skilled, but that is not the point) players away and are incredibly boring to fight against.

Swingman
05-01-2002, 08:12 PM
What do you do GooglyMoogly, find the weakest weapon and go around dieing because it's fun to die?

Of course everyone tries to go to the strongest weapon or style that they think they can kill you with. It's called COMPETITIVE NATURE and most humans have it.

Everyone wants to win and no one wants to lose.

The noobs that left your server got tired of dieing. They would have left if someone kept killing them with just a stun baton. (Which i think would be more annoying to die from since it's a weak weapon)

The only thing you do by kicking people off your server is making very annoyed gamers who had no reason to be booted, the other people are going to leave anyway if they can't kill anyone.

Swingman
05-01-2002, 08:13 PM
How is heavy stance fighting boring? just slower then the other 2 but not boring.

GooglyMoogly
05-01-2002, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Swingman
OMG, kicking people for figthing the way they want to fight. That is LAME.

NOT when that style of play causes other players to leave.

Heavy stance is not better then medium or light stance, it's different.

Agreed. EXCEPT when heavy can kill *after* the swing and by simply walking into it.

plus, if you miss you're open to attack. Cry me a river about heavy stance, it's not overpowerful (and no i don't use that stupid lunge move on heavy stance, it's leaves the person to open for a counter attack - and it's easily sidestepped)

you're right...I can easily sidestep it all day, but yet they somehow don't get it that their style isn't working since they aren't hitting me, but continue to use the same move over and over...ad infinitum. Boring :)

How is heavy stance fighting boring? just slower then the other 2 but not boring.

See above...lather, rinse, repeat.


AGAIN..the point is not that I have a problem with heavy users..the POINT is that its running people off my server. Now, I can just accept this and end up with a lame server, or try to enforce some guidlines so that MORE people can enjoy the game. If you play heavy and want to bout, bring it on. Play smart and this won't affect you.

tam
05-01-2002, 09:09 PM
googlymoogly is right to a degree

i use various styles of combat, i usually change my style in battle bout 20 times so i cant be predicted. but when i'm playing someone who just uses heavy stance...they are too preditable...i find myself bored for the rest of the battle, he swings...i dodge, i uppercut, he gets damaged, he comes again, he swings, i dodge, i slash, i hit. it does so get boring after a while facing people who just use the same tactic over and over again

now i wouldnt say these people are lamers or cheap whore. i'de just say they need more time to fool around with other styles. for now, they like heavy, next week they'll like light, soon they'll put all the styles together. i wouldnt really be bothered by it again when i think just this one thought.

i could also say they are incredibly new to the game and thing stronger is the way to go. aw well. thats just my opinion

Demangel
05-01-2002, 09:16 PM
GooglyMoogly don't listen to these dorks, they live on the forums to flame people and whine and counterwhine... Surely some toad will flame my post, as some mouth breathing 12 year old troll always does.

I just think you have proven your point without lifting a finger as to what kind of losers we have playing JK MP these days... I don't give six savory $h!t's about saberist code or anti saberists code...

The rule of thumb is this game like most of these games feature weapons that are by nature cheap and boring after a short period...

It's all a matter of opinion... and you know what I find to be the funniest part about all of this?

these same people who are bithcing about thier rights to play how they want are stepping all over your rights to say what you want. not to mention the even more obvious right that you have to do anything you please on your own server that YOU pay for and THEY don't.

In my mind I don't care about people who might disagree with you, that doesn't bother, me, but the overall attitude on this board is disgusting... No wonder people go to war over stupid **** like religion and what not, if we can't even agree on lame things like this game...


GooglyMoogly

I would love to know the IP/name of your server, if I have a good ping on it, I would love to play on a server that has an admin who tries to keep cheapness to a minimum... so long as you have a loose set of rules, since it CAN be hard soimetimes to draw the line between spamm/cheapness and valid technique. I only hope you only kick the REAL offenders (like the guy who spams DFA as thier only real move missing endlessly... and boring the hell out of me)

I am glad you don't hate heavy style, because I DO use it once in a while, though I suck with it. However I have high respect for anyone who can handle any style with skill. Even more respect for those who know how to switch between them for different purposes ETC.

So please send me a message or whatever or list your IP/server name on this thread, I'd love to try it out...

-Demangel

Zante
05-01-2002, 09:37 PM
-Demangel:

That was full of n00bism.

You complain that winners are cheap?

Are you sure you're not complaining about how they know how to play the game they bought in the shop for what it is?

Maybe you should go make your own mod for the "skilled player" who always loses...

GSA_Mitth_
05-01-2002, 09:40 PM
Hey ...

the game has been out for more than 1 month now ... and people are complaining about 1 attack ...

Just get used to it ... i mean i get the pleasent feeling of getting some real JK2 skilz ... people who are there know what i mean ... the pleasent feeling of geeting real Jedi matches....

there is no heavy spamming in a skilled players duel ... there is a use of 1-strike-kill but the action is so smooth ... close combats are fought with medium or fast ....

I dont hear any1 complain there about spamming ...

just to all newbies and rookies ...
get used to it .. learn it and use it ... eventualy you will chance your tactic and feel the skill-boosting :D

GooglyMoogly
05-01-2002, 09:47 PM
Demangel - the voice of reason. I've actually gone up against you a few times :) . My game name is Muerte. Your style is fine.

I have very loose rules, but if I have 1 player with 15 and the next closest is 5, I watch him. If he's spamming DFA or using other cheap tactics it's likely he'll get kicked. If he's got skillz AND uses heavy but doesn't spam it, all's well. I always say something first..(which pisses them off, then they become even bigger *******s! ironic no?).

This is not to say I always do it...and when I have, most just get right back on. Generally if the tide of the game is turning towards a heavy whore fest I start to take action.

Keep it cool and all is well.

I'm reluctant to post the ip of the server since it would inevitably become an open invitation for certain people reading this thread to "interfere with".

Next time I see you in-game I'll let you know.

DeepEyes357
05-01-2002, 10:12 PM
I agree with you, there are heavy whores out there. Actually I guess you can consider me one of them, its like my crack. :nut: Just kidding, I used to use it alot but I actually have skill in it...well atleast i think so. But now I know how to use medium also but I only use it agianst one on one, but if there are a bunch of people after me, I switch to heavy (I call it my crowed clearer). I mean people calm down last time I checked this is just a game there isnt people really dieing. This guy just wantes the people on his server to have fun.

Swingman
05-01-2002, 10:43 PM
Demangel,

The old trick of put down others and make yourself look good, I think i used to that when i was 6 years old

I'm way older then 12 years old and GooglyMoogly said he's gonna kick out heavy stance users that don't have enough smarts to try different moves. That's mature (sarcasm)

I didn't say he didn't have a right to an opinion. I was giving my own opinion and that was his reason for booting those people was lame.

Of course, it's his server so it's his rules but I can still have an opinion about how lame his choice was.

Of course, i agree, there are a lot of crappy lamers out there

But coming in and calling everyone else dorks is pretty CHILDISH

Swingman
05-01-2002, 10:46 PM
LoL

So the rule is don't get a big lead on Googly's server, otherwise you stand a chance of getting booted. Key word chance since you said you'll watch their actions carefully

Kincade
05-01-2002, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Swingman
Demangel,

The old trick of put down others and make yourself look good, I think i used to that when i was 6 years old

I'm way older then 12 years old and GooglyMoogly said he's gonna kick out heavy stance users that don't have enough smarts to try different moves. That's mature (sarcasm)

I didn't say he didn't have a right to an opinion. I was giving my own opinion and that was his reason for booting those people was lame.

Of course, it's his server so it's his rules but I can still have an opinion about how lame his choice was.

Of course, i agree, there are a lot of crappy lamers out there

But coming in and calling everyone else dorks is pretty CHILDISH


i suppose you also think it is lame to boot people who use the model of only kyles arms. or how about the frames that make people look dead. that not a reason to boot people? This is similar to spawn camping in games like DoD for halflife. sure, its not against the rules, but its really lame to do a move over and over again. i can't tell you how many times i've died to a DFA-lamer who flew past me, i dodged and i attack him from the back just to die to the saber with is 180 degrees in the opposite direction, not to mention it just happens to be imbedded in the ground.

good for people who can use strong style well, but it is quite annoying to be dodging 5 people who don't swing except to DFA. specially since they can change direction in the air, so if they fly past and i pull them to slash them in the back, they can still hit me. is there any logical reason why the move should be the easiest special to land, do the most damage of specials, as well as a 360 degree hit box. yes, 360 degrees, i've been hit by it when they were faced to the side of me as i ran up to counter attack. same for back, same for front, same for every diagonal.

GooglyMoogly
05-02-2002, 12:06 AM
Swingman....you are totally missing the point.

If you have a big lead and you got there because you play well then I have no problem with that. I'm not going to kick people just because they are good...I'm going to kick people because they are ruining the game for other players.

This includes other forms of misconduct as well. More time than not even if they are being whores I won't kick them unless it becomes a problem for other people.

Im glad you like heavy Swingman, and I'm glad you are good with it...but there are MANY MANY players out there who aren't and just use it cuz it's almost a guaranteed kill if you make contact. I think we would ALL agree that there are some questionable issues with the damage zone. Too much of the SAME thing just sucks in my opinion.

Anyhow...this is how its gonna be..I'm not Hitler and I'm not out to ruin your play experience...I want to improve it for the masses, not lower the standards so some lamer can get his rocks off.

OOO
05-02-2002, 12:15 AM
The overuse of heavy stance is enough to have stoped me from playing the game. I have not fired up a multi match in close to two weeks now.

I come back mostly to see if the state of the game has changed, or to see if a patch has been released as well as to post to the off topic forum (I'm a star wars nut kinda).

The guy comes out and makes a point that at times people will leave a match when they get tired of being DFA'd from the same people over and over and over and over again. Now what happens if they have to leave several matches for the same reason? They go and play another online game.

And I have nothing at all against one hit kills. My main online game is AvP2 and that game has a huge number of one hit kill weapons.

OOO

Tozier
05-02-2002, 12:19 AM
*sighs heavily* Here's an idea.... just don't post about this kind of topic anymore... it's getting kind of old, and REALLY childish. Please, spare my sanity and SHUT THE HELL UP!
:explode: GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!




___________________
QUIT WHINING!

Darth Abbadon
05-02-2002, 12:23 AM
With some of the replies I've seen, I wonder about their reading comprehension scores on tests. Now to get back on topic.
I give a big thumbs up to what you are doing. It's nice to see an admin who is there to insure a good experience on his server. There are too many servers out there that are unattended, and also don't have a way to get ahold of the admin in the motd.

Tozier
05-02-2002, 12:28 AM
If you're refering to me, I usually don't read the last few post because by then the people have usually calmed down and qiut yelling at each other. :) My posts telling people to.... SHUT THE HELL UP. Are directed to the thread starter or any one who flames or whines.

I have no patience what-so-ever, for whining (which is obvious to anyone who recognizes me.)

OOO
05-02-2002, 12:57 AM
"I usually don't read the last few post"


Then why are you posting into this thread. You have nothing more constructive then a 'shut up' to contrubute to this topic. Perhaps if you had read all the posts you might be able to add something that people will take into consideration as more then trolling.

OOO

Swingman
05-02-2002, 01:00 AM
My list of reasons to boot people was not exhaustive. I didn't take 2 hours to think of every reason to boot people. so you don't need to flame about things I missed in my short list. I was giving examples of good reasons to boot people.

I agree, the damage model in JK2 stinks, gtg.

forethought
05-02-2002, 03:57 AM
Heavy stance will not be a problem once they fix:
1. Being able to rotate on the ground after doing the Attack from Above move.
2. Walking up to a vulnerable player after they've done the Attack from Above move and getting full damage (the lightsaber is in the ground, why take damage?)
3. Being able to run backwards at full speed.

Take these away and heavy will be more tollerable. Yes, there are ways to beat it, but when 3+ people you're fighting against are using it or SPAMMING it, then it gets annoying. Fast.

Father Ruckus
05-02-2002, 04:39 AM
Originally posted by Swingman
OMG, kicking people for figthing the way they want to fight. That is LAME.

You kick people for cheating, hacking, typing crap to everyone instead of fighting, etc

Not cause you don't like their fighting style.

Everyone does what is fun for them and what they are good at.

Heavy stance is not better then medium or light stance, it's different.

I use heavy stance cause i am good at it. It takes SKILL to predict where they'll move next so you can slow swing at them cause you definitely can't swing at where they are currently because they'll move by the time the swing comes around

plus, if you miss you're open to attack. Cry me a river about heavy stance, it's not overpowerful (and no i don't use that stupid lunge move on heavy stance, it's leaves the person to open for a counter attack - and it's easily sidestepped)

His server his rules....dont like em start your own server.

Zante
05-02-2002, 07:18 AM
People don't leave when their opponent starts spamming heavy stance...what the hell gave you that idea?

Your "research" is flawed.

People leave when they start losing horribly due to the fact of having little experience and being unable to compete.

If anyone agrees with this totally radical idea of booting winners from their servers then they should be shot.

Everything googlymoogly ever came up with is based on pure assumption after watching people leaving his server after losing...

I suppose you want to kick healers, drainers, grippers, pullers, pushers, D.F.A.ers too eh?

THIS WHOLE THREAD IS JUST ANOTHER RANT FROM YET ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY JEDI OUTCAST PROPERLY AND HIS LITTLE ONE MAN ARMY AGAINST PEOPLE WHO CAN.

-end :guard:

Luc Solar
05-02-2002, 02:42 PM
Oh, for the love of god... Didn't someone say a few posts back that you should: (and I quote)

"Read. Comprehend. Post."

Reverse
05-02-2002, 03:09 PM
i dont care care about the stances, sure i want them to fix the strong styl bug, but thats it.

the only thing that gets my frustrated are the dark jedi that refuse to fight and only use grip, again and again and again, even though i counter it alllll the time they never stop using it lol

GooglyMoogly
05-02-2002, 05:23 PM
Zante...um...did you even READ these posts?

Anyhow...looks like Raven has seen the light as well...after the patch lets hope I won't have to take this stance anymore.

As an FYI for all of you that think I have one finger on the Kick command....I played for quite a while yesterday and the top player was a heavy whore..he ended three consecutive rounds with almost 4x as many kills as anyone else. I didn't kick him, why?...because everyone else was still having a good time. All of the players besides him were using a combination of styles and we all had a blast....no one cared that they didn't win against the heavy.

Oh...I fought him several times too...he beat me...I beat him...but it was the usual fare...he would swing, then backup a mile away and charge me again. Correct me if I'm wrong but when dueling sabers the idea is to get in tight and mix it up...NOT spend all your time trying to get enough distance so you can whore your heavy swings. Very annoying...

I also saw some DFA SCRIPTS being worked on in another forum...WTF?... DFA is such a fun way to fight I guess it's more fun when all you need to do is press ONE button for insta-death. Gimme a freakin break...if you are gonna use it and claim mad skillz then at LEAST try to use the movement keys and attack button MANUALLY.

Swingman
05-02-2002, 05:32 PM
Father Ruckus,

READ THE POSTS BEFORE REPLYING

If you had read one of my other replies to this post you would have saw that I typed that same thing about it being his server his rules. So don't say dumb crap like that unless you read every single post.

Don't just copy one post and say oh, i found something to flame.

Kurgan
05-02-2002, 05:36 PM
Well here's the thing to remember.... 1) you can't force anyone to stay in your server, no matter what you do. and 2) if they want to play that way, you can't really stop them, unless you kick/ban them, which is up to you, but I suggest you instead get some more skill. I mean really... the way it is, the game will only be "fun" as long as everyone plays at the beginner level and nobody wins.

As soon as people get better, then suddenly it's "not fun" because people lose, and you desire to kick these folks or something? I guess you just have to continually get better, because competition is what the game is all about!

GooglyMoogly
05-02-2002, 05:47 PM
ARRRGGGHHHH!!!.

It's not about WINNING....I don't care ONE BIT whether or not I win....It's NOT about SKILLS...I do just fine when I fight...no complaints.

Fun does not equate to winning....not to me anyway. FUN for me is having some nice STRATEGIC kick-azz, flipping, jumping, wall walking, fights.

Jezus, can't anyone state an opinion about a particular style of play without everyone assuming I don't like it because I suck?.

Styles are in the game to give more variety and options to the players, but as in Life most people want to find the quickest easiest way to the top. Well that's not my philosophy in Life and it's not my philosophy in games.

It's the JOURNEY not the DESTINATION.

DARTH_VADER2002
05-02-2002, 06:32 PM
GooglyMoogly is damn right!

All you people who can defend heavy stance obviously haven't been on the receiving end of it. Sure its easy to counter but I personally don't play JK2 just to spend 10-15 mins sidestepping all those "Demented Bunny Hoppers".

You say kicking hvy stance abusers is lame?!, Its his server and he gets my 100% backing and understanding. Heavy stance in the hands of a decent and respectable player is fine but when it is constantly abused and exploited at the cost of enjoyment for others then it becomes selfish and no server host or admin in good conscience can allow such things to go on.

You don't like his rules? Fine, go make your own server and restrict the lameness to there but just know that if/when the latest patch comes out, it will be us players who choose to play JK2 multi the decent way who will get the last laugh.

Don't get me wrong... this post isn't made with the intention of whining or complaining, Im simply defending a fellow player who has the courage to stand up and stop this kind of behaviour from public servers... (I wish there were more like him).

Just to summarize for all of you who couldn't be bothered reading this post in full: (by the looks of a few previous posts, some people obviously don't)

1) Use Heavy stance if you wish... but donít rely on it as a means to win at the expense of others enjoyment (especially in NF duels ffs!)

2) Play respectfully, if you donít wish to bow... fair enough don't, but don't expect other people to show you respect if you arenít willing to do the same

3) If you are one of those people who enjoy flaming posts... then go ahead flame this one. I have come to the point of simply ignoring people who simply have nothing better to do than argue, whine or complain.

4) Play JK2 and have fun!! and next time your at the receiving end of a 'Demented bunny hopper' then think back to this thread...

Thank you and goodnight :vadar:

toolboi
05-02-2002, 06:46 PM
to add to the bowing thing, ya, dont bow, thats cool, BUT DONT SABER THROW OR FORCE-WHEVER SOME ONE WHILE THEY'RE BOWING!

DARTH_VADER2002
05-02-2002, 06:58 PM
Well that is a great example of what Im talking about...

Play fair, show some respect, don't trashtalk and we ALL may get more enjoyment out of this game...:D

:vadar:

Rogue74
05-02-2002, 09:17 PM
I don't even know where to begin to reply after all those posts, some people just don't get it.

This is a G-A-M-E where you are supposed to

kill1 Pronunciation Key (kl)
v. killed, kill∑ing, kills
v. tr.

To put to death.
To deprive of life: The Black Death was a disease that killed millions.
To put an end to; extinguish: The rain killed our plans for a picnic.

To destroy a vitally essential quality in: Too much garlic killed the taste of the meat.
To cause to cease operating; turn off: killed the motor.
To tire out completely; exhaust: ďThe trip to work, and the boredom and nervousness of jobs, kills menĒ (Jimmy Breslin).
To pass (time) in aimless activity: killed a few hours before the flight by sightseeing.
To consume entirely; finish off: kill a bottle of brandy.
Sports. To prevent a hockey team on a power play from scoring during (a penalty).
To cause extreme pain or discomfort to: My shoes are killing me.
To mark for deletion; rule out: killed the story.


your opponent. You're not trying to find the fairest way to accomodate all the other players so they all have equal kills. *End Game* Hey everybody you're all winners you all get a trophy! Now THAT's boring!


Strong stance is a legitimate stance in the game. You obviously haven't actually fought a skilled strong stance user because you said the game becomes boring.

BTW, sidestepping will not defeat a skilled strong stance user, you CAN move while slashing with the lightsaber...

DARTH_VADER2002
05-02-2002, 09:48 PM
Rogue, your post started off stupidly... but that dictionary definition... lol really? Was that needed?

Granted... ITS A GAME!... So is baseball or soccer... but as a sign of respect the national anthem is played before each game.

Respect? Maybe I should get a dictionary definition for that also because that seems to just fly way over a few peoples head.

The sooner some people wake up to the fact that there are REAL people who choose to play for FUN (new word to you too?).

Just because you don't know someone personally doesn't make it right that you choose to ruin their game/fun by acting like an ass or abusing heavy stance.

You can act however you like in Jedi Knight SINGLE PLAYER... Your not gonna see anyone complaining that you use heavy against every single storm trooper... thatís your choice, have fun.

But when playing with other people, you have to consider that playing games online is a social thing to do... and like any member of society there are certain rules or at least things that most people (not all) learn In REAL Life.... e.g., not to act like an Ahole in public.


So next time you log on for a game of multiplayer JK2... remember that there are real people at the other end of your cheap one hit kills...

Perhaps then you might understand...

:vadar:

Desslock
05-02-2002, 10:02 PM
First Googly, it was a mistake to post something like this on *this* forum, seeing how its notorious for reasons evident in your thread.

Now.. *cough* Your prerequisites seem to be for someone to deserve a kick, they need to cause other people to not want to play and not have fun. Have you considered the integrity of the people not having fun, instead of just the person 'causing' the harm to the others? Maybe its the fact that they're just burned out and will get pissy and leave if a lucky shot hits them.. I don't know, and you probably won't either unless they have a public record. Besides, maybe the people who left just went to go find another game-type server, but were having plenty of fun on yours. Who's to say...

Regardless of any arguments on this thread, it is your server. You can kick/ban someone for having a Weequay skin.. its your choice, and your money, but no one likes a server admin who kicks/bans for that sort of thing. (Not implying anything by the way).

DARTH_VADER2002
05-02-2002, 10:31 PM
*sigh* Personally... It has been my experience that Heavy Stance abusers (especially in NO FORCE duels) do ruin the experience for others in the game.

Its not about winning and loosing... personally, if I loose I donít quit a server or trash talk the winner. If I was beat fairly and both parties enjoyed the game then im happy.

But I think it is widely accepted that Heavy stance is UNBALANCED.... why else would the developers be working on balance issues with heavy on the latest patch?

I think Googly was making the point that most people play on his server with a few expectations. Expectations of playing a few games, winning or loosing. It don't matter the reasons they all left... for that we can only speculate... but still we cant be blind to the fact that a large proportion of players are opposed to people who exploit heavy stance at the cost of a good game.

(Notice how there are NO complaints about people exclusively using fast/medium stance...doesn't that tell you anything?)

But, I think your right in saying this topic has been talked to death... I think all we can do is wait for the patch and take it from there.

:vadar:

Aegis
05-02-2002, 10:55 PM
Alright, after half an hour of reading through the posts, laughing my ass of at the unfounded allegations towards Googly, and just seeing how many flamers there are out there, I have come to a decision to post.

You people have completly missed his point, minus a few others. He posted one of his pet peeves about the game, and how he intends to deal with it. That sounds fair. He made his own server, so he doesn't preach to others in their server. His peeve is a valid one, as DFA is spammed horribly. I am a Dueslist (says so in my name) and I can say that there is nothing more tedious then beating down the same vanilla DFA over and over. Does this mean it should be removed? No. Every game has to have that sort of move. What it means is that it should A) be toned down in strength, or B) be harder to implement.

Also, before anyone gives me the rant about being a newb who can't duel, back off, and pull your heads out of your asses. I duel constantly in servers that allow only sabers, and no force, and I'm usually on the top of the list, or damn well near to the top, so I think I know a thing or two about saber combat. You people who are saying that DFA is a completly skillful thing to do, and because of that you are on the top, then you obviously prey on those who can't defend against it yet. Try taking on people who have learned the other stances, and know how to beat the heavy with ease. All your doing by spamming/whorring/(multiple other explitives) the new people and less talented people is turning them off the game.

If any of you feel like proving me wrong in this, and actually show me a DFA spammer with skill, feel free to take me on, one on one. HFE Kandyland FFA. you beat with it, so be it. you proved me wrong. Just show me that you know something more than that one move, then you'll earn the respect you claim you should have.

Now, get off Googly's back. He don't deserve **** like that.

DARTH_VADER2002
05-02-2002, 11:05 PM
Finaly... Aegis I agree 100%

Im not saying Heavy should be removed... I myself like to switch to it on occasion... But rather than spam the one hit death move over and over I choose to vary my stances... Trust me this makes for a more enjoyable game.

Motto of the story... Use Heavy? Fine... Just donít abuse it constantly. It won't win you much respect or many friends... so don't go crying on these boards if an admin kicks you off his server.

:vadar:

GooglyMoogly
05-02-2002, 11:11 PM
For those of you that support my "radical" notion of enjoyable gameplay, Thank You.

Let this thread die quietly.

NewBJedi
05-02-2002, 11:55 PM
Server admin need the ability to disable stances.

That would solve most problems, if not all heavy stance issues.

Zante
05-03-2002, 12:34 AM
Disable stances, k that's just dumb.

I'm not even gonna read this thread anymore, I know where it's coming from.

Aegis
05-03-2002, 01:10 AM
I agree, disabling stances is a rather poor solution to the issue. When you do that, your not only getting rid of the DFA spam, but also the variety of moves and unique thing that saber dueling is. Without the stances, you have JK1.

DARTH_VADER2002
05-03-2002, 01:55 PM
I agree that disabling stances seems a shortsighted way to solve the problem. It would be almost like cutting off your nose just to spite your face, and in the long run would hurt the game for all.

I think rather than disable heavy, It should be made more true to its original purpose. Less Damage, Alot slower recovery time and the possibility that a missed special attack could knock the player off balance etc.

Alternatively, perhaps it would be a good idea to have the heavy special move harder to achieve (it is one of the easiest moves in the game, which is part of the problem). Or infact how about each special move takes 90% of a players force power to do successfully. That would force players to have to wait for his/her force powers to regenerate before attempting the move again.

I feel that would at least stop the spamming of the dreaded "one hit wonder" that has been the scourge of many a decent duel,(Notice I said DUEL and not FFA or CTF) and may infact make a number of current players learn to use the other stances as well.

:vadar:

Gav
05-03-2002, 06:00 PM
I'm not a flamer, not here to argue.

No offense DarthVader, but i disagree with your earlier post. What about the enjoyment of the "Demented bunny hoppers?"
If they enjoy rackin' up frags by dfa then let 'em. Like you, I like to switch to hvy stance now and then.

But I don't think that hvy should be toned down, maybe except its collison thing. Whatever it is that decides when it's hit you.
Of course it has moves that kill with one hit. that's why its called strong stance :)

back to the enjoyment of others

I'm sure that nobody likes to get killed. I'm also sure that it would make a difference how you died, but i learned long ago not to argue with the way other people play. In the past, i played virtua fighter with my brother and he almost always chose a guy who was really fast. I called him a cheapshoter and all that because he kept beatin' me, but i finally realized that, that's just the way he played. He thought it was more efficeint to play that way 'cause he could beat me about seventy-five percent of the time.

These DFA spammers obviously think that's the easiet way to go. Do i think everyone who does it should be deemed skill-less cheaters worthy of flamin', not really?

It's all about rights. They have the right to play the way they want to, just as you have the right to play as you want to. You may say they're invading the rights of others, but i don't think it does.

I admit, when i see people flamin' others for flamin. I think, what's the point. That's why i'm trying not to flame.

You may think i'm a stupid, brainless noob, (i hope you don't :) )
but this is just the way i feel.

and no, i'm not a "Demented Bunny-Hopper. :D

Kurgan
05-03-2002, 06:14 PM
If for you the game is NOT about winning, then you shouldn't complain when you lose. ; )

And if my goal is winning, what's wrong with "spamming" what WORKS? Exactly!

DARTH_VADER2002
05-04-2002, 10:41 AM
Bah :D

Well not once in any of my posts did I say that there is much to be done about you abusing the heavy stance (besides from concerned players kicking heavy abusers if the majority wants it).

Sure, you have a right to use it and if you do then so be it, but an attitude like that is counter productive for JK2 in the long run.

If a high score means more to you than a "good fight" then that again is your choice, and if you had your own server then thatís great, you wont see me or anyone else complain :D

Its just when your style of combat spills out into the public servers, it has a way of disrupting the game for all the other players who do want a good fight and what once was a good duel degenerates into a tedious "Dodge that DFA fest".

Now don't get me wrong... when used the way it should be, heavy is great! Its great as a finishing move or to simply even up the odds when yer down to 5 health hehe :rolleyes:

lol and even spamming the DFA in CTF or FFA etc is ok (heh I use it as crowd control lol :D ) .... but what concerns me is when it is abused and exploited in duels.

"Duels?" I hear you say.....

Yup especially No Force duels where in a crowded server of say 8 to 10 people, loosing a duel at the cost of a single cheap heavy shot and having to go back to the end of the line and wait 15 mins only to suffer a similar fate can become annoying to say the least :mad:

And as googly said in an earlier post... it puts off newer and less experienced players from sticking around, often choosing to find another server to play on.

Now before anyone who hasn't bothered reading earlier posts buts in and says "ooh but its easy to counter you n00b" etc, etc then I say this...

Yes it is easy counted, and vs. a heavy player my chances of survival in a NF duel arenít to bad, but I get no joy in ducking and dodging my way past a barrage of DFA moves for 10 mins...gets very, very boring and predictable.


*plays jerry Springer music*

Ok time for "Vaderís Final Though" *gets stool to sit on*

"Remember kids, in the hands of a true Jedi, heavy stance is a valuable tool... but overused it wont win you any respect or many friends... Its almost as annoying as having a good fight in FFA with one guy and then someone running into the fray firing rockets killing both lol SO think twice before reaching for that heavy :rolleyes: Take Care Of Yourselves.....And.. Each other" :cool:



*ending credits play, crowd cheers wildly*

:vadar:

Nill the Mean
05-04-2002, 11:23 AM
TO ALL WHINERS
God all I ever read on this forum are people bitching and whining and crying their eyes out and more importantly: FLAMING.
I bet at least 80% of all the posts here are flames! Well, here's mine:

[edited by digl - your useless flames are not appreciated here. If you post something like that again you'll be temporarily banned.]

avenger_au
05-04-2002, 01:01 PM
Nill - I've found a useful website for you :

Here (http://oror.essortment.com/troubleshooting_rzlu.htm)

Just scroll to the "Only Types Capitals" section. I'm not sure if it will work on your version of keyboard. I'm running Keyboard XP. Or that's what the guy at the shop told me. I hope this solves your problem.