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View Full Version : ? To Kurgan About Bleem!


Jedi Calypso
06-12-2000, 10:59 PM
Kurgan, (or anyone else who can help)

Upon reading the posts you had about bleem!, i decided to go and pick up a copy. But now i have a problem.

OK, i got this cheap controller, and now none of my games will take to it, can you tell me what brand of controller you have and how much you got it for.

Thanx, GOD bless.


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http://www.aaces.com/GR/images/Monkey.gif
<font color = "gold"> Say "hi" to Bango, Jo-Jo's friend and faithfull sidekick.He helps me bounty hunt.</font>

The Un-Council's Disgruntled Bounty Hunter
-Calypso

[This message has been edited by Jedi Calypso (edited June 14, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jedi Calypso (edited June 14, 2000).]

Jedi Kenobi
06-12-2000, 11:23 PM
I don't know about Kurgan, and I don't have bleem!, but I have a Gravis GRIP Gamepad that is modeled exactly after a playstation control, and that probably would be your best bet.

[This message has been edited by Jedi Kenobi (edited June 12, 2000).]

Kurgan
06-13-2000, 12:26 AM
I do not own bleem!, I only was testing out the pc demo of it and asking people what they thought of the full version, as it looked good to me.

I own dual Gravis Xterminator gamepads. Each one cost me about $35.

I like them alot, as I enjoy emulation, and typically console and arcade games work well with them. The feel of the controllers are nice as well.

I like them because they have a ton of buttons, that can all easily be mapped to keys and key-combos. This makes them ideal for what I use them for.

One downside is that they don't daisy chain to the controller itself (like the Microsoft Sidewinder gamepads) instead they link to the end of the cord which connects to your tower. But, for my setup, this works fine. If you wanted to chain a dozen of them together, it would be pretty cluttered.

bleem! was pretty easy to setup, as I just set it to this controller (as a preset) and then it worked pretty well. You can go back and tweak it as well.

If you like, I can go through bleem! and give you specific step by step instructions on how I got it working with my controllers.

Kurgan

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 12, 2000).]

Commander 598
06-13-2000, 12:47 AM
emulaters are supposed to be illiegal as well as roms

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Yeah its interesting to me that preparing looks is a great bit like sitting on your ass.

Jedi Kenobi
06-13-2000, 12:54 AM
Bleem! isn't exactly an emulator. Go the the webpage (http://www.bleem.com) to learn about it. And it doesn't use roms, it uses the game's cd. Btw, Commander, don't be offended by the comment I made about the script. And I beg of you to post the rest or at least tell me where/how you came to find it!

Kurgan
06-14-2000, 04:13 PM
bleem! is an emulator, because it imitates the games hardware enough so that the games will work on a PC (or soon DC). Emulators are not inherently illegal.

Let me repeat Emulators are NOT illegal and I don't think they SHOULD be either (and neither do thousands of other gamers).

They're fun, and they let people who can't afford or can't find the hardware to run older games (many of which are no longer for sale anyhow). Plus they're great because they offer stuff like improved speed and grahpics and extras on your PC.

Also, roms are not illegal either.

That's one of my pet peeves, when people say "roms are illegal" or "mp3's are illegal."

C'mon, that's like saying "photocopying is illegal."

It depends on the situation and the thing being copied.

Roms are legal if you own the game that the rom is of. It's just like making a backup copy of software. Plus, many games that are obsolete and systems have had the roms released and they are now public domain (anyone can use them provided they are free).

Plus, while some roms are technically illegal (as the copyright/patents haven't expired), the companies have been out of business for years, so there's no chance anyone is going to be prosecuted for using the roms even if they don't own the game (that is unless some big company buys the rights to that game then decides to go hunting down people who have).

MP3's aren't illegal either. You can make MP3's of any music you own. Plus, MP3 is just a music format, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's illegal. What's illegal is if you make an MP3 of a band's music that hasn't given permission for it to be distributed (some bands, like the Beastie Boys, and many indie bands have given permission and even made their own MP3's to be distributed for free on the 'net) and then give it out to people who don't own the CD's.

What's bad is when people slap commercial emulators, roms or MP3's onto CD's (when they don't have permission to do so) and then sell them off as "bootlegs" to people. First off, it's a total rip, because you could just get the stuff yourself for the cost of a CD, or just download it onto your HD or a zip disk free. Plus, they are making money off of stuff that is either free already, or that isn't their's to begin with.

Sony is taking everybody and their mom to court over PSX emulators (sounds alot like what Nintendo used to do to anybody they didn't like...) to try to get them to stop, because they feel it hurts their sales.

However, emulators like bleem! don't use the ROM bios of the PSX. See one emulator, PSEmu requires a rom of the PSX system bios in order to run games. They were told by the court that they couldn't distribute the system bios Rom because Sony owned that piece of code, even though the emulator was free. Sony won that case.

However, bleem! doesn't have the system bios, and doesn't require it, so they won the right to sell their emulator, and Sony lost that case. bleem! was deemed legal.

Of course Sony is probably still pissed and will try to get it made illegal if they can.

Hey, nintendo sued people because they made NES compatible games without going through their liscensing stuff, and they tried to make the Game Genie illegal (because they lost sales on strategy guides? who knows..).

Only time will tell, but for now, gamers can use this stuff, and I don't see any reason why they should not.

PSEmu is still around, but you need to find a bios image (hey, if you own a PSX, it's not illegal to have the bios rom anyhow). bleem! is perfectly legal because it is it's own self-contained thing.

Sony just needs to get a grip. Sure they lose some money on their systems, because face it, the PSX has the worst graphics for the PSX games. It's so much more convenient, and it looks much better, to play it on your PC or Mac, and soon your DC. They made the right decision making PS2 backwards compatible with PSX games.

No I don't think they should be illegal. It just limits choice for consumers. You paid good money for the games, why shouldn't you be able to play them on your PC if you want to? What if your PSX breaks down? What if somebody else is hogging the TV?

The games still sell, because you still need the discs to play.

Emulation is one of the best things to happen to gamers, really. The big corporations ***** about losing money, but hey, they make billions already, and most of the time it doesn't hurt them anyhow, it helps them.

Kurgan

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 14, 2000).]

Jedi Calypso
06-14-2000, 04:35 PM
yeah Kurgan, giving me those step-by-step instuctions would be great. I've been trying to play the games i have on Bleem! with just the keyboard, but it only really works that good with FF7, 9because the controlls are'nt that difficult anyway). But playing games such as JPB or resident evil through the keyboard is just out of the question. So, yeah, that would be really cool if you could type up some instrucions for me.

Thanx, MTFBWY....A


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http://www.aaces.com/GR/images/Monkey.gif
<font color = "gold"> Say "hi" to Bango, Jo-Jo's friend and faithfull sidekick.He helps me bounty hunt.</font>
The Un-Council's Disgruntled Bounty Hunter
-Calypso

[This message has been edited by Jedi Calypso (edited June 14, 2000).]

Argath
06-14-2000, 06:03 PM
For all practical purposes, bleem! can be called an emulator, but it technically doesn't fall under the same category because it doesn't attempt to emulate the PSX's hardware. It'd be more comparable to a 3D API wrapper, which translates calls into a useable format, rather than attempts to emulate the piece of hardware itself. WINE (WINE Is Not an Emulator) is also similar, as it allows Windows compatibility on Unix platforms without actually using any of Microsoft's code.

That is what Jedi Kenobi was referring to when he said bleem! isn't an emulator. There is a fundamental difference between emulators and programs like bleem! and WINE, but I usually refer to bleem! as an emulator simply because it's easier.

[This message has been edited by Argath (edited June 14, 2000).]

ChosenOne
06-14-2000, 06:04 PM
I've been using the 3dfx Hammerhead FX gamepad with my PC and I like it a lot. I bought it particularly because of its similarity to the configuration of the PSX Dual Shock pads. It has two analog sticks in the center, 6 buttons on the right side, 2 top buttons and 2 triggers. It is quite a bit bigger than the Dual Shocks but that is great for me because I have big hands. Unless you've got tiny paws it will be a good fit. It also has force feedback (ie. vibration) although I rarely use it because it uses 2 AAA batteries which make the controller heavier. It works great with Bleem!.
My only complaint is that I have only been able to find the one which connects to the gameport. There is a USB version out there, but it has eluded my grasp.
I've seen a Dual Shock ripoff which looked exactly like a PSX controller but it was only available for the Mac. I still probably would not switch even if they had a PC version though because I've grown to like the extra two buttons for PC based games.

Jedi Calypso
06-20-2000, 06:40 PM
http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/cool.gif hey, very cool you guys http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/cool.gif

I got a Gravis GrIP controller, and it works really great, thanks for the help everyone!

Cheers!

-Calypso

Kurgan
06-20-2000, 07:30 PM
Well Argath, whether or not that is true (I wasn't aware that it could not be considered an emulator), that doesn't change that facts of what I said... that emulators and roms are not illegal.

If bleem! is an emulator, that does not make it illegal. In any case, bleem! is legal..

Step by step instructions for what? Setting up your controller? That should be in the readme, why don't you check that first.

Kurgan

Commander 598
06-20-2000, 07:54 PM
Its illiegal if the company didn't make it.

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Yeah its interesting to me that preparing looks is a great bit like sitting on your ass.

Kurgan
06-20-2000, 11:36 PM
Well, the court ruled that bleem! was perfectly legal, and they are being sold as we speak. I think I'll buy one in fact, as I was so impressed with it. ; )

Perhaps you don't understand legality.

Are tape players illegal? Because you can copy commercial tapes and distribute them for free you know! Last I checked Metallica doesn't make tape players.

Are photocopiers illegal? Because you can photocopy commercial books and give them away. Last I checked Stephan King wasn't making photocopiers.

Are cd burners illegal? Because you can copy cd's on them and give them away. Last I checked Game companies weren't selling Cd burners, and neither was Norton Utilities or anyone else who makes CD-ROM's...

Just because something can be used for an illegal purpose, does not make the thing illegal automatically. Cars, guns, crowbars, baseball bats, knives, swords, clubs, and alcohol are not illegal, even though they can be used to commit crimes.

Just because the emulator wasn't made by the company doesn't mean it's illegal.

Whether or not it is Sony that produces a PSX emulator has no bearing on whether or not the emulator is legal. PSX emulators are LEGAL period, because they do not use portions of code owned exclusively by Sony. The same goes for other types of emulators.

The ONLY thing that is illegal about emulation is when the following conditions are met:

1) Roms of a commercial game or system are given to somebody who does NOT own the game or system.

AND

2) The Roms being distributed have not been released by the copyright owners for distribution (so if it's a freeware company, or if the copyright holder gives the game away, it's okay).

If #1 and #2 are met, then the person who is holding onto the roms is commiting a crime, that is, breaking copyright laws.

But in every other case, it's legal.

Kurgan

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited June 20, 2000).]

Commander 598
06-20-2000, 11:56 PM
How much does bleem cost?

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Yeah its interesting to me that preparing looks is a great bit like sitting on your ass.

ChosenOne
06-21-2000, 12:07 PM
I got it at Best Buy for $29.99, but I've seen it since for only $9.99 at CompUSA.
Maybe Best Buy should change their name, huh?
http://www.sevaan.com/starwars/fanart/images/thumbnails/wendy7.jpg

[This message has been edited by ChosenOne (edited June 21, 2000).]

Argath
06-21-2000, 01:37 PM
Well Argath, whether or not that is true (I wasn't aware that it could not be considered an emulator), that doesn't change that facts of what I said... that emulators and roms are not illegal.

Why would I say something that isn't true? Just because you post ridiculous, unsubstantiated comments on topics you know very little about doesn't mean everyone else acts the same way.

http://www.bleem.com/about/FAQ.html

[This message has been edited by Argath (edited June 21, 2000).]

Kurgan
06-21-2000, 04:37 PM
So what would you call it, a PSX simulator?

You said yourself it could be called an emulator, and though they try to "differentiate" themselves (I can see why they would from the recent legal cases) from "traditional emulation."

The reason you gave yourself for saying something 'not true' was that it was "easier"

I usually refer to bleem! as an emulator simply because it's easier

No need to call me "ridiculous," Argath. What I said was still true, from a certain point of view.

So then by using the term to apply to bleem!, aren't you lending support to the idea that bleem! is an emulator in the "practical" sense?

Maybe it doesn't "emulate" the hardware in the "traditional sense", but it certainly emulates the gameplay of the original game.
To a gamer, there is really no difference. You aren't playing a re-creation of a PSX game, you're playing THE PSX game, just using different hardware.

I'm not a lawyer, so maybe I can't explain it the best way possible.

Are you saying that because bleem! is not an emulator ("in the traditional sense," according to them) that thus emulators are illegal? I would think not.

bleem!'s legality does not depend on it being an emulator or not.

Apparently, this is yet another case of squabbling about a minor point, thus using it to discredit everything I said. Or do you just like to argue about everything?

Okay, a compromise: if you don't like the bleem! example, how about this? Virtual Gaming Station. Legal, and it emulates PSX games. Not made by Sony. Does that prove my point? ; )

Kurgan

Argath
06-21-2000, 04:59 PM
I've said nothing about the legality of bleem!, nor do I really care to discredit anything you've said, since most of it has been accurate. I just don't appreciate my information being disregarded with a simple "whether or not that is true," considering the creators of the program themselves echo what I am saying.

I don't really care what you call bleem!, as the only reason I posted was to elaborate an earlier comment. Jedi Kenobi originally said, "Bleem! isn't exactly an emulator," to which you replied, "bleem! is an emulator, because it imitates the games hardware enough so that the games will work on a PC (or soon DC)." I was clarifying his point, not commenting on any of the legal issues, which shouldn't really need explaining anyway. Emulation is legal if you don't infringe on anyone's intellectual property. I don't really know where you're pulling anything even remotely related to legal issues from my posts, but I'm well aware of what is and isn't in violation of the law.

In fact, I read a decent article on the legality of emulation (among other things) a while back; if I can find it, I will post a link, as it's actually pretty interesting.

Kurgan
06-21-2000, 08:28 PM
Okay, now I understand what you're trying to say. ; )

Hey, I got an email from bleem!. They explained that it was more like a translator/simulator, because of the way it enhances the hardware visuals. Okay, so you guys were right. They just call it an emulator, because people know what that is. Makes sense.

Kurgan

[This message has been edited by Kurgan (edited July 08, 2000).]