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View Full Version : JUST A QUESTION.......


pg_22_99
04-11-2000, 12:46 AM
i need to get some opinions from ya'll. ok i know these are 2 totally different movies but in every1's opinion which had better effects(sounds, etc.)the matrix or ep.1??

Dark Jedi
04-11-2000, 03:32 AM
Defenately the Matrix. That had awesome special effects. It was so good it won an oscar for it! Anyways I personally think the Matrix rocked and Episode 1 sucked but I think anyone who has seen the Matrix would agree with me that Matrix is far better at least in special effects. I think in all ways but thats cause I hated Episode 1 http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/smile.gif. They are kinda hard to compare though.
Just my $2 worth (adjusted for inflation).

Dark Jedi

Conor
04-11-2000, 01:05 PM
I totally disagree. The sound in Ep1 beat the matrix silly, and the sheer effort that ILM put into it should have got it an Oscar for effects. Not to mention I thought it was a much better movie than the matrix.

I left TPM feeling great and loving the movie. It was really, really cool. I left the matrix feeling disappointed and wondering why all the characters were so imbecilic.

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"If there were not God, there would be no atheists."
-G.K. Chesterton

Ikhnaton
04-11-2000, 01:46 PM
When I left the theater after watching the Matrix, I was so pumped! It was such an awesome movie! I got the video for Christmas and have watched it at least 5 times since that time.

When I left the theater after TPM, I was disappointed, mainly because of JJB. I saw it two more times in the theater and had similar reactions. I bought the collectors edition and watched it the same night, and I am almost regretting having bought it.

As amazing as the SW universe is, and the effort that was put into it and how seamlessly it was integrated into the film, the effects still weren't as eye-popping as the Matrix. The Matrix still gets my blood pumping, whereas I like TPM less each time I watch it.

lightbulba
04-11-2000, 07:51 PM
there's no contest here. the matrix, in one scene alone, took down its lazily constructed competitor effortlessly. what the matrix's graphics do is support the premise, not be the premise. and as the entire matrix cast interacted fully with each other, they were surpassing the star wars actors and the empty stares they give to their cardboard companions, soon to be replaced with pointless cgi extras. and the matrix , as opposed to episode one, actually revitalized some actors' careers. plus, incomparably less merchandising than its counterpart.
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http://www.starwars.com/snapshot/1999/20/img/merchant_sm.jpg

[This message has been edited by lightbulba (edited April 11, 2000).]

StormHammer
04-11-2000, 08:26 PM
Okay, I'm gonna sit on the fence and say I liked both films.

Now for the dissection... <g>

The Matrix had great special FX, some of which were ground-breaking (and have since been used in just about every ad going...). But so did TPM - the sheer number and quality of the FX was astounding, and immediately made it recognisable as Star Wars.

TPM had a fairly weak story for the Star Wars universe - too bound up in politics and trade disputes. There was no epic quest, like in the originals.

The Matrix did have a sort of quest - the search for the Chosen One again... Oh dear. And that pretty much summed up the entire story. No marks for originality of plot, I'm afraid...

In terms of sound, yeah, I guess The Matrix is pretty good. The music to TPM was too far removed from the originals and didn't gel - it's infinitely forgettable, in fact, apart from the 'Duel Of The Fates'.

In terms of acting, they both did a good job. Keanu was put back in the spotlight, transforming himself from wood back into flesh and bone - while some of the TPM cast almost managed the opposite. Of course, that annoying little Gungan didn't help matters (spits to one side in disgust...)

Blow for blow, I think the films come out about even, because The Matrix just tailed off toward the end, while TPM had a fantastic lightsaber duel which will be difficult to surpass...

That's my opinion, anyway...

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----[] So be it...Jedi []----

Darth Kurgan
04-11-2000, 10:47 PM
If we are just talking about EFFECTS, then TPM all the way.

Why? Well no movie up to that point had as much digital footage seemlessly spliced into every scene. Jar Jar was annoying as hell, but he definately made an impact on the audience (albeit mostly a negative one with the "over 12" set). He was a well done totally digital character. Let's not forget other classics like Yoda and Jabba. The Pod Race was a triumph.

The Matrix, sure it had those cool bug-robots, and stuff, but honestly, whether or not it had a cooler story or better acting (pick your favorite), but it was mostly footage of people walking around in offices, city streets, or in what looked like a dank warehouse (the ship). Yeah, there were cool stunts, and the "circling camera effect" (interpolation of Trinity for example) was nice, but TPM had effects like that which were equally cool.

Saber duels? Space battles? Droid Armies? The "fields" were cool in the Matrix, but nothing compared to the scale and grandeur of TPM.

Overall, TPM just had more stuff. And the thing is, you couldn't have the movie without it. Digital sets, digital characters, digital faces. I mean, it's ALL ABOUT effects. The Matrix had some, but they were more like regular modern action movies.. you do some "normal" stuff, then you wait for the next "big effect/stunt."

The sound is all up to the viewer's taste. Either you get some recent rock hits or you get some "classical" John Williams music. Both work for the particular story they are trying to tell.

Kurgan

darth_stu
04-12-2000, 12:12 AM
It stinks that there isn't a little smily face deep in thought, cuz I really had to think about this.

My ratings:

SFX: I'll agree that Star Wars had good SFX, but ILM used CGI in like 99% of the scenes, which, in my book, is too much CGI. On the other hand, the Matrx used just the right amount 4 me.
Upper hand: Matrx

Story: Total tie, cuz I can't decide between a really good story and Star Wars, even though it SUCKED!
Upper hand: the 1 that I didn't say SUCKED!

Sound: I have to say Star Wars. I mean, it's hard to get a voice as annoying as JJB's.
Upper hand: Star Wars

Those are the categories I can think of.

The winner: THE ONE THAT DIDN'T SUCK IN THE STORY CATEGORY!

LDB_Leeman
04-12-2000, 04:42 PM
Does anyone wonder why Ep1 got such bad reviews and why fans weren't that impressed?

Personally, I think EP1 lacks something. I'm not sure what. Maybe a couple of sequels.
Yeah, maybe that's it - because the saga has a great big chunk missing at the moment, and EP1 is the only link to this piece, it seems somewhat out of place in the Star Wars Universe, and so is classed as "the worst Star Wars" film.
What are other people's opinions?

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www.thereckoning.co.uk (http://www.thereckoning.co.uk) - My Personal Starcruiser.

StormHammer
04-12-2000, 06:42 PM
LDB_Leeman: No, I'm afraid the lack of the *whole trilogy* doesn't cut it as an excuse. Star Wars stood on it's own when it was first released - it had a solid story with a beginning, a middle, and an end. It threw us into the middle of a space battle, and finished with a big bang.

TPM was a bit too much like ROTJ - especially where you have three battles going on simultaneously - one in space, one on the ground, and a saber duel. Ring any bells? Many people view ROTJ as the weaker film in the first trilogy, and perhaps TPM emulated it too much.

I liked TPM, but as I said, not as much as I should have. The other thing that is really starting to bug me is Tatooine - considering it's situated at the a$$-end of the universe, it seems to be the centre of the universe. Has George got a desert fetish?

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----[] So be it...Jedi []----

Vagabond
04-12-2000, 06:59 PM
If we're talking about the script, I personally found the plot of The Matrix much more interesting and original than Star Wars - Episode I: Here We Go Again. I mean, the matrix had an extremely clever and refreshing sci-fi story, while TPM was basically a rehash of all the previous Star Wars movies.

Who hasn't already seen:

Good guy fighters attacks big bad guy spaceship.
Goofy alien army attacks bad guy army.
Light saber duel takes place.
Good guys blow up big bad guy space ship.
Goofy alien army beats bad guy army.


Granted, there were some new plot details revealed (and one totally awe-inspring saber duel), but we've already seen this movie before. It was called the classic Star Wars trilogy.

If we're talking about substance and not fluff, I found the Matrix a much more enjoyable movie than TPM. Which is a shame because I really, really wanted to love TPM as much as the original Star Wars movies.



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VagabondNomad on the Zone...

All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...

Conor
04-12-2000, 08:08 PM
I didn't think TPM was as good as any of the original trilogy for basically two reasons.

I thought the midichlorians were extremely pathetic. It effectively cut a lot of the fantasy element out of Star Wars. Lucas was simply an idiot to include that.

No Han Solo character. Let's be serious, Han made Star Wars. I really missed a character like him.

I still thought TPM was a much better sci-fi movie than the Matrix, but it was barely Star Wars.

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"If there were not God, there would be no atheists."
-G.K. Chesterton

pg_22_99
04-12-2000, 11:28 PM
thanx goes out to all the folks that gave me feed back on this matter!!! i really appreciate it!!!!

LDB_Leeman
04-14-2000, 04:48 AM
Ah yes, the Midichlorians.
They kind of ruin the whole point of the Jedi Order being a religion - you can only be a Jedi if you're lucky enough to have been born with a high Midichlorian count...
What a crap way to pick out Jedi...

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www.thereckoning.co.uk (http://www.thereckoning.co.uk) - My Personal Starcruiser.

Darth Kurgan
04-14-2000, 10:42 AM
Yes Vagabond you're right, (sarcasm), TPM is a rehash of ALL Star Wars movies combined:


Good guy fighters attacks big bad guy spaceship.


That means they copied AHN and ROTJ, except both of those were death stars.


Goofy alien army attacks bad guy army.


They copied ROTJ there.



Light saber duel takes place.

What a rip-off! Except they really didn't copy the others, notice Darth Vader was in the other three.

(repeat, repeat).

You forgot to mention:

John Williams plays some music (total rip off of the other three movies).

"A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far, Far Away..." followed by scrolling Star Wars logo.

Episode #....____ (fill in titl) followed by yellow text scrolling off into space on starfield at beginning.

Aliens appear onscreen.

Stuff gets shot with blasters.

Body parts get "cut off" from various creatures/people.

Droids do stuff.

Ships fly around.

Ends with black-out wipey thing to starfield with blue text scrolling for ending credits.

You might be able to say the planets were similar, but you can excuse that because you were on some of the same planets (well Tatooine, that's it Coruscant we only saw in a few brief shots in ROTJ SE).

I think when you mean that TPM copies ALL the other Star Wars movies, you really meant that it has some similar elements to at least one of the other Star Wars movies.

However it is primarily differnent (and I think alot of your annoying Vaggy with the plot and other elements is from the EXPANDED UNIVERSE, not the movie trilogy, there are after all only three other movies), in that we have, for once NEW BAD GUYS. ESB goes against the grain of ANH and ROTJ by having a sad ending, no super-weapon, and a different plot focus.

The EU of course rehashes the plot-lines of the movies A TON. We get super-weapons, new characters upstaging the old characters (with the same roles: spunky high-born female, dashing rogue male, young naive jedi, wise old sage (who usually dies), twisted dark jedi/sith/wizard, lovable droid/alien companion, etc), a super-weapon of some sort (or, a "super fleet"), a threat from an evil force user or maniacal military leader, something about the past like the lost history of the Jedi Knights or a lost Jedi artifact, and so it goes. Many of them even rehash well overused lines from the first three movies ("I've got a bad feeling about this" "may the force be with you" etc). In the EU, except for a few characters dying off or having kids, you have very little character developement of the original movie cast. Maybe this is partially out of reverence to GL, that his characters aren't being "messed with." Luke never seems to change much, Han is the same guy, etc, etc. I know people's personalities don't change that much over their lifetimes, but still, they are far too static for my tastes.

Without the background music, the visual effects, and fresh plot-lines, the EU tends to degrade itself into generic contrived Sci Fi "cookie-cutter" stories with the Star Wars name slapped on. There, now if you disagree with my stereotyping of the EU, read on and see what I have to say about the previously posted analysis of the movies (and then I can put this mammoth post to rest, lol)...

The Dark underpinnings of TPM, that is, the whole Sideous/Palpatine and Maul plot thing was what made the story interesting. You got something similar to that towards the END of RotJ. That is, you start to get the feeling, and it is spelled out for you, that Palpatine, had planned all these events in advance, and it was turning out just as he wanted. Of course TPM doesn't TELL YOU, you just see the events unfold. In the rest of the trilogy, you don't get that impression.

Let's say you didn't know anything about star wars. You go along watching the movies in order. You get the impression, okay, there's this other galaxy, there's a civil war, there's these Jedi Knights that died off and only a few are left. Darth Vader, this big bad guy is kind of stumbling around looking for something. ObiWan, the wise sage.. dies, oh, and Luke is his replacement, sort of. Who's this Han Solo guy? Okay, so he's the hero. Alright..

But by the end of ROTJ, you get the impression that an epic saga has taken place.

I think the biggest flaw perhaps in TPM is that we ALREADY KNOW WHAT IS TO HAPPEN, we just get to find out "What occured prior to the events in ANH, in order to set the future events in motion which would cause the other trilogy."

Alot of people were disapointed, because they expected TPM to be somehow all things that the other movies were and MORE. The only way in which TPM really "tops" the other films is in its special effects.

I liked TPM for what it was, a prequel to the other star wars movies. On its own, it had an interesting story (the magnitude of which is greatly diminished if you haven't seen the other Star Wars films IMHO), and the saber battles were excellent. Jar Jar was quit annoying, I agree.

But to say that TPM is merely a rip-off of the other Star Wars movies is a rather generic and somewhat simplistic interpretation. It really isn't, it just fits into the series.

Kurgan

Vagabond
04-14-2000, 12:02 PM
Kurgan,


...ESB goes against the grain of ANH and ROTJ by having a sad ending, no super-weapon, and a different plot focus...


Agreed, The Empire Strikes Back is the most unique Star Wars movie to date. I confess that when I first saw it, I left being somewhat irritated because Han had just been captured and the Rebels had just suffered a serious ass-whupping. To a 6th grader, it seemed an enternity until I found out what happened in the next Star Wars movie. But being more mature today, I realize who a great movie it was.

All I'm saying is, that for me personally, I found TPM to be recyling many of the same plot devices from the classic Star Wars trilogy, except for maybe ESB as you noted. And if you'll note, I already conceded that the light saber duel in TPM was the best, bar none. I just wasn't impressed much by it. That's my opinion, so sue me http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif


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VagabondNomad on the Zone...

All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...

Ikhnaton
04-14-2000, 12:59 PM
Actually, as far as the midichlorians go, I was reading the first book of the Jedi Academy Trilogy, and they discovered a tool that the Emporer used to find Jedis and others strong in the force. All you do is scan them with this thing and it presents a holo image that glows blue if they are, doesn't glow if they are not. So this fits in well with the midichlorians.

Kylilin
04-17-2000, 12:52 AM
matrix, although, if the entire Phantom Menace was only lightsaber duels, it would be better then the matrix

Kylilin
04-17-2000, 12:59 AM
let me go further into my analysis
first off, efx wise, i'd say tie, because what is better than two jedi's beating the crap out of robots?
story: Phantom Menace, I think most people don't realize exactly how much the Phantom Menace hints at things to come, TPM was a setup for what is coming, and wht is coming will be great.
overall: the matrix, becase Morpheus would have kicked JarJar's butt in the first 5 seconds of meeting him, and much more of a complete package than TPM, liek i said TPM is only a setup for things to come, but the Matrix has a truer ending. besides, Neo would whoop darth maul.

Ikhnaton
04-17-2000, 12:44 PM
I just watched the Matrix again last night. I love it more and more each time! Of course, it has a special place in my heart since my sweetie is named after the lead female role http://www.jediknight.net/mboard/wink.gif

Dark Jedi
04-22-2000, 10:28 PM
Besides the fact that The Phantom Menace was just a bad movie in the first place I think that it really has a constriction—it is a prequal. If The Phantom Menace were the first star wars movie released in addition to the first movie in the series I belive it would been viewed as a far better movie. Why? it gets compared to the original triology as a base line. I do not think there is anything wrong with this however, I belive that the Phantom Menace is harder to please fans now that it has an entire trioligy in front of (or behind depending on how you think) it. Main reason I think Phantom Menace was so bad besides Jar-jar, special effects went overboard. It seemed in afterthought that special effects were being concentrated on more here than the far more important elements such as story, plot, etc.

In the Matrix special effects were of course essential to the movie.

Lord_Maul
04-24-2000, 03:19 PM
Star Wars, how can anyone vote with a movie that had keanu in it? I mean that guy was in bill and ted's excellent adventure...then embarassed himself more by being in part two of it.

Lord_Maul
04-24-2000, 03:22 PM
Yes, but with all legend and mythology everything repeats itself. I suggest looking into the book magic of myth by the late philosopher joseph campbell. All heroes are placed through the same journey. did you expect lucas to leave the philosophy he created the greatest space opera ever from?