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View Full Version : My summary of the patch, and the whiners


BQ Obiwan
05-07-2002, 01:06 PM
Firstly, I think you should all be sincerly thankful to Raven for going out of their time to satisfy alot of peoples wishes.

Secondly - They can't please everyone, its a fact of life, but for those who say it "sucks" etc, here is my thoughts regarding:

You say the patch "sucks", yet how long have you played it for?

You complain about all the things you have no patience to experiment with, yet do not credit the things you like.

You basically complain about this patch because Raven, thankfully, have removed alot of the "easy kill" type tricks. For example, all you death-blow abusers out there will no longer be able to get your cheap kills.

For the past however long you have been playing, all of you whom have been doing deathblow.. Now look, it has been majorly edited and toned down.. What are you going to do now? That is right, you have never thought to practise on the mediums or fast stances because your too busy trying to get the quick kills..

This is why most people are complaining, they have neither the skill nor the patience to do this thing.. its called, practise.

All I have to say is for all you whining people, who will now be put to the bottom of the skill chain, Good riddence - One less cheap kill.

Thanks for reading,

and BTW - Amazing patch Raven, and I am sincerly thankful that the team listens to requests - Overall, extremly happy.

May the force be with you.

Miah-Kit Wan
Initiate
Knights of Alderaan

Damar Stiehl
05-07-2002, 01:32 PM
I personally was perfectly happy with the game mechanics prior to the patch. I wasn't the master of saber yet, but I didn't fall for DFA anymore, learned some dynamics and some counters, and everything made sense and it was good.

Now all of that goes right out of the window. Does it suck for me? Well, yeah, it does, but oh well. JKII is not the ONLY thing I do in life, and my neighbourhood store has a generous return policy.

I am surprized by the amount of crying that I see right now. This patch did one thing: it gave the community what it so loudly asked for, namely a nerf avalanche. Why cry now? Why not squash those who whined for nerfing earlier when it would have mattered, like it was done on, for example, the official boards of Freedom Force? Now anyone who asks to be nerfed there gets a big ol' shaft.

Don't cry now, people. You got what you asked for. Or at least what you'd appeared to have asked for. You don't need a week to see the patch's effects and implications, you need all of about one hour.

jedi-zero
05-07-2002, 01:36 PM
huh???? your winning about the patch? why because its way better more realistic harder to be the best!go return your game moron!!!! i love this patch the saber battle in multyplayer now feel like real duel:deathii:

LooNBB
05-07-2002, 01:37 PM
I'll just do a little dance for you
:elephant: :monkey4: :3headed: :monkey4: :elephant:

Damar Stiehl
05-07-2002, 01:42 PM
Who said I'm whinin'? This game ain't good enough to make me whine. The way I see it, before the patch the sabers were actually dangerous, the way they were supposed to be... I mean, you miss a hit, you lose a limb. Now, it's more like, you miss a hit, you scratch and keep going.

I personally didn't mind killing OR getting killed with one hit, because after a while that happens only if you or your opponent aren't skilled enough to prevent the one-hit kill. That's just me tho. Some people might like the more relaxed mode where you aren't required to be on the edge ALL THE TIME. I don't, therefore the MP no longer has any value for me, therefore back to the store. I am not saying that you should do the same.

So no, I'm not whining. I'm commenting on the state of things. Right now, *skilled* players got shafted. Big time. So skilled players will justifiably be upset. I'm simply surprized they weren't upset enough to prevent nerfing in the first place.

That'll be all...

rut-wa jodar
05-07-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by jedi-zero
huh???? your winning about the patch? why because its way better more realistic harder to be the best!go return your game moron!!!! i love this patch the saber battle in multyplayer now feel like real duel:deathii:

Well put Mate :D :D

The Patch has made the MP game 10 x`s Better even, the bots are more of a challenge now :D I would like to have seen bots accepting duels in FFA though !!

Zodiac
05-07-2002, 03:55 PM
hey. welcome to the forums. there used to be someone who gave a jedi-chocolate medallion to all new users here. :)

The Truthful Liar
05-07-2002, 04:07 PM
Yes, and I got one, I haven't eaten it yet so you can have mine :D

*hands Jedi Chocolate medallion to BQ Obiwan*

Robbiesan
05-07-2002, 04:21 PM
I'd like to see multiple players in duels.. I think it sucks that only one pair of players can engage in a protected duel..

rut-wa jodar
05-07-2002, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Damar Stiehl
I personally was perfectly happy with the game mechanics prior to the patch. I wasn't the master of saber yet, but I didn't fall for DFA anymore, learned some dynamics and some counters, and everything made sense and it was good.

Now all of that goes right out of the window. Does it suck for me? Well, yeah, it does, but oh well. JKII is not the ONLY thing I do in life, and my neighbourhood store has a generous return policy.

I am surprized by the amount of crying that I see right now. This patch did one thing: it gave the community what it so loudly asked for, namely a nerf avalanche. Why cry now? Why not squash those who whined for nerfing earlier when it would have mattered, like it was done on, for example, the official boards of Freedom Force? Now anyone who asks to be nerfed there gets a big ol' shaft.

Don't cry now, people. You got what you asked for. Or at least what you'd appeared to have asked for. You don't need a week to see the patch's effects and implications, you need all of about one hour.

:violin: :violin: :violin:
WHINER !!!!!!

Damar Stiehl
05-07-2002, 04:31 PM
ROTFLOL. You gotta be kidding me. For your information, bots do accept challenge in FFA, unless it was "fixed" by the patch.

In 1.02, Desann and Tavi on Jedi Master skill could actually sock it to me pretty good. In 1.03, I trounce them like an AT-AT stomping rebels (10/1, 10/2, 10/3, 10/4 if they get lucky). Mind you, I am NOT THAT GOOD. In fact, in 1.02 world I was downright bad, but hell, I was learning.

One huge-ass point people are missing is that the strategy of sabre combat has been thrown out of the window. When in doubt, switch to light mode and press hard. Moreover, heavy stance can no longer swat the light-stance prancing fairies as quickly as it used to. And medium stance has gone from moderately useful one-trick pony to a completely useless zero-trick dead cow. No more nasty guessing, no more danger, no more edge. I for one can see why this patch might be boycotted by ladders. Sure, the duels last longer now thanks to less damage overall and less powerful moves, but the guessing game has been replaced by clickfest.

Damar Stiehl
05-07-2002, 04:38 PM
Did you even bother to read what I wrote?

Oh, I guess maybe you like violins. Here then.

:violin: :violin: :violin: :violin: :violin: :violin:

MORON.

jedi-zero
05-07-2002, 05:12 PM
okay its goes to the botom line that JK2 is a star wars game that is it is supose to reflect the battle in star wars ...ok you all whit me .....DID u ever saw Luke fight vader 5 meter away from each other? well i havent before the patch people were miles away from each other to do saber battle ....now its the way it was supposed to be like the fight in star wars!!!!!!!!!!!

NewBJedi
05-07-2002, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by jedi-zero
okay its goes to the botom line that JK2 is a star wars game that is it is supose to reflect the battle in star wars ...ok you all whit me .....DID u ever saw Luke fight vader 5 meter away from each other? well i havent before the patch people were miles away from each other to do saber battle ....now its the way it was supposed to be like the fight in star wars!!!!!!!!!!!

Good point - mind if I add it to the Whiner's Guide in Game Feedback? It would look like this:

I don't like the new lightsaber feel after the recent patch! :ball:

Here's something to think about . . .

Originally posted by jedi-zero:


okay its goes to the botom line that JK2 is a star wars game that is it is supose to reflect the battle in star wars ...ok you all whit me .....DID u ever saw Luke fight vader 5 meter away from each other? well i havent before the patch people were miles away from each other to do saber battle ....now its the way it was supposed to be like the fight in star wars!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.lucasforums.com/editpost.php?s=&action=editpost&postid=524745

mIRC
05-07-2002, 09:11 PM
Welp, good-bye to a great game. Maybe I'll be lucky and there will be servers that don't update.

flippo
05-07-2002, 10:17 PM
just because it's ``like the movies'' doesn't mean it's fun or skillful. all you do in saber fights now isrun at each other hoping to score a hit. the game i bought was much more skillful, and took timing and planning to score a great hit. people who say we are whiners are just talentless. they love this patch because now they can actually win doing what they always do: run around like a headless chicken swinging in all directions. well, i'll wait for a little to see if things are corrected, otherwise there is no point in me owning this game, having beat the single player.

by the way, my beef is of course with the complete destruction of medium stance. the only stance no one complained about.

TheMadDoofer
05-07-2002, 10:34 PM
My only complaint is that it has screwed some of the textures on the stormies on one level. He turned black, and then one side of his head was an imperial and the other side was normal. Can you tell me what happened? Also, I cannot see the electrical leaks and flames when you are trying to escape the Doomgiver's shields. Please help me here.

:confused:

Kinopio
05-07-2002, 10:35 PM
We asked for SP combat and now we got a taste of what its like in MP, it stinks!!! some like it, some hate it. Before i would time my hits almost perfectly waiting for the perfect time to strike. Now when i swing at them at them while their in an open red swing, i go for the vulnerable side and he still blocks it! they fall down, a lot of the times, i'll get guys blocking hits while they're trying to stand up. too slow................................. it's become one of those games that just becomes mindless after so long.

So for all you people that tell me to just quit the game if i hate it so much... no i wont, instead i'll pray they make a compromise between the players that love the new combat and those that despise it.

P.S. kickflip was fine how it was.

Jedi Legend
05-07-2002, 10:43 PM
Play Single player! It's much more fun anyways. I love the new patch; I could have done without the ammo-sucking guns but I'm not to troubled by it.

snakeeyesa27
05-08-2002, 12:05 AM
most people think us whiners are upset at losing our heavy dfa. this is not true. i don't EVER use heavy stance. i am married to medium and was GREATLY saddened at its castrating, that and the dumbing down of a game that involved great skill and tactics to win. it has become a whackfest, with no timing involved, no skill. whereas i used to be able to kill 10 jedi master bots to 1 death, now i can barely keep up. why? because after a missed heavy swing they can immediately block my medium attack. forget DFA i dont use it i don't condone it. THE PATCH HAS TAKEN ALL SKILL OUT OF MP, ESPECIALLY MEDIUM STANCE. and all because people who suck whined. don't call us whiners. we WERE happy.

flippo
05-08-2002, 12:11 AM
preach on brutha!

mIRC
05-08-2002, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by snakeeyesa27
most people think us whiners are upset at losing our heavy dfa. this is not true. i don't EVER use heavy stance. i am married to medium and was GREATLY saddened at its castrating, that and the dumbing down of a game that involved great skill and tactics to win. it has become a whackfest, with no timing involved, no skill. whereas i used to be able to kill 10 jedi master bots to 1 death, now i can barely keep up. why? because after a missed heavy swing they can immediately block my medium attack. forget DFA i dont use it i don't condone it. THE PATCH HAS TAKEN ALL SKILL OUT OF MP, ESPECIALLY MEDIUM STANCE. and all because people who suck whined. don't call us whiners. we WERE happy.

Finally a medium stance user speaks against it!

God, thanks to the whiners of the heavy stance they ruined the only thing the game has going for it in MP which is sabers. with this new patch everyone is the spinning top I said they were gonna be but still others are happy with it? Its completely stupid.


BTW, NewBJedi, thank you for preaching to make the game suck.

ShadowCell
05-08-2002, 12:17 AM
I used to wish I had a faster connection so I could join servers and kick peoples' @$$es (and vice versa, I would undoubtedly lose to the skilled or lucky).

Well, there's always single-player.

And, for all of you who still want something out of the game rather than returning it to the shelves, head over here (http://darkforces.thegamingunion.com/index.shtml) to get a look at a MOD that's just gotten started. It aims to recreate all the original Dark Forces levels, enemies, weapons, etc., rendered in Jedi Outcast's graphics. If Multiplayer has now been ruined by the folks at Raven who didn't have to make this patch, then maybe you can relive all the fun we had blasting Imperial scum in Dark Forces oh so long ago. Maybe they'll recreate Jedi Knight next.

By the way, for all of you who will inevitably whine about both the patch and this MOD, typing in all caps really makes you look intelligent. TRY IT. THEY DO.

Zodiac
05-08-2002, 12:20 AM
I FEEL JUST LIKE EINSTEIN NOW. AAAAAAAAAAH THE POWER!!

flippo
05-08-2002, 12:56 AM
Finally a medium stance user speaks against it!

umm excuse me, OVER HERE! i'm probably the most vocal disgruntled medium user there is! :D

Gmeister
05-08-2002, 12:59 AM
mIRC, goodbye to a heavy stance whore like yourself. We don't need no skill whores like you. You're pissed because your tip of the light saber can't heavily damage someone anymore when the momentum of the swing has obviously slowed down. Haha, I don't feel one shred of pitty for you. I'm glad cuz I heavy stance whore were WAYYYY too easy to beat.


.....now this patch forces people to use HEAVY STANCE when the right situation arises. Not like a dirty whore who has to hide their lack of skill by doing DFA every 8 seconds leading to a bore fest of a fight.

Although I have some issues with the patch because it isn't balanced.

Gmeister
05-08-2002, 01:07 AM
BTW, medium stance was perfect how it was. And light stance should not have been changed. Maybe tweaked a little but not as much as they did in this patch.

...All the should have messed with really is the DFA animations where you touch the saber at the end of the animation and still get as much damage as you would when you actually get hit during the animations when the opponents saber is in full momentum. That's the only thing that really pissed me off.

i'll test more, but they had the right idea, but they went to too much of an extreme. In the next patch, they need to restore some of the skill and effectiveness. Make it so that you play with sabers with req. skill but don't die because of a error in the collision detection. Don't dumb the game down for some teeny bopper who spins like a little prick.

stellerwinds
05-08-2002, 01:16 AM
/agree BQ Obiwan

flippo
05-08-2002, 01:46 AM
teeny bopper, LOL!

and yes to everything you said G.

Desslock
05-08-2002, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by Gmeister
mIRC, goodbye to a heavy stance whore like yourself. We don't need no skill whores like you. You're pissed because your tip of the light saber can't heavily damage someone anymore when the momentum of the swing has obviously slowed down. Haha, I don't feel one shred of pitty for you. I'm glad cuz I heavy stance whore were WAYYYY too easy to beat.


.....now this patch forces people to use HEAVY STANCE when the right situation arises. Not like a dirty whore who has to hide their lack of skill by doing DFA every 8 seconds leading to a bore fest of a fight.

Although I have some issues with the patch because it isn't balanced.

Pardon.. but uh stances in real life combat are not used via situation. You use a stance according to how you like to play. That, and I met plenty of people who didn't use DFA for every attack.

And DFA was possible to chain every 3 to 4 seconds if you know how. Just a little FYI :)

Now, no one uses heavy, and everyone uses light and runs around with the button held. Either that or mops the floor with pull on a FF server.

I fear this game will walk the path of a HL mod called FLF.. God rest its soul.. one of the most original mods after Counter-strike.

Mr_Sharky
05-08-2002, 02:28 AM
Well I loved medium stance and was fairly skilled at it but most of the people using it were clearly just strafing and spinning hoping for a hit. I like the new med stance because you need more timing to get a hit and the spins aren't as easy so you don't get as many headless chickens. As for the kickflip, I understand why they did it and agree that it did get annoying accidentally kicking small ledges etc... it doesn't take any time to tap the button twice and for me it's still just as easy to pull off. I also like the blocking as it's more "movie-like" and imo fun.

As for guns well I never play on gun servers because I only like the sabers and saber combat so I can't comment on them.

At the moment I'm still getting used to the stance changes but it'll only take about 1-2 days on on-off playing to get back to my previous level of skill.

Finally can people stop saying "your just annoyed because your cheap/lame/noob tactic doesn't work!" or similar... you know nothing about how they play/who they are and have no right to make such sweeping generalizations.