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View Full Version : Thoughts on 1.3, from a gungan!


Desslock
05-07-2002, 03:15 PM
I want to firstly state that I never mentioned what should have been done ever. This is the first time I thought of it because we had know knowledge of what would exactly change in the patch. Now, on with the ranting!

1) DFA now needs much more timing and aim to pull off and doesn't do the damage it used to. I like how you cant spin with it anymore. Thats a definate design plus. Grade A solution. That fact that it doesnt do enough damage, all the time makes it not worth using anymore save special occasions. This is not what a stance means. It is something to be used for fighting. Since saber throw does more damage that most swings, it seems to be the key to a win.

2) Saber throw in NF. I dont mind it, but why does it do an instant 30 damage opposed to the weaker damage of stance styles.. that just makes it like the DFA used to be, except theres little to no risk to the thrower, and all the risk to the target, as said by someone else that its hard to block.. Not to mention you can use level 3 saber throw in NF matches.. thats kind of going against the point of NF matches. Level 1 would be fine, and maybe do around 25 damage instead of 30, because it certainly looks like the saber is travelling much slower than that of a swinging blade from heavy.

3) New maps are wonderful! I encourage more of this as nothing bad has ever come from new maps :)

4) I think saber combat should have been left the way it was, leaving the adjustments to the DFA move. Now, either your attacks do around 15 damage, or are blocked.. easily. The gist of saber combat is that you offset ranged attack for a close and risky powerful attack (a light stance swing should be more powerful than a E-11 bolt). But instead, theres now more emphasis on 'swinging and praying' than actually standing back and trying to read where your opponent is going, which is what Medium stance required pre-1.3. I'd know, I used it alot :)

5) I may post more points, but I have school so I'll throw this thread on my desktop and check back later to reply/add content.

Damar Stiehl
05-07-2002, 03:31 PM
>> 4) I think saber combat should have been left the way it was, leaving the adjustments to the DFA move.

No shiet. This is Diablo II all over if you ask me...

Patton
05-07-2002, 03:34 PM
There is a simple solution to all of this.

Don't play.

Jedi-Bert
05-07-2002, 04:55 PM
from what i understand, saber damage was only nerfed at the begging and end of the swing, so if you want the large damage, hit them with the swing and not the tip of your saber

Vision
05-07-2002, 04:59 PM
Don't play is a naive way of putting it. But then again alot of people think 39 dollars is nothing these days.

Ferox
05-07-2002, 05:01 PM
hmm i dunno i agree with the dfa move because it was pretty cheap. but i think i like how it is now, it takes more skill if you ask me because you cant just slash and pray or you wont do much damage. and i dont like the saber throw now.. thats stupid rofl, it doesnt take force to throw it.. but it sure as hell takes force for it to come back to ya.

TheJackal
05-07-2002, 05:06 PM
Jedi-Bert is right

but I have a feeling the rest of you dont quite understand. Think of it this way. When you hit a baseball with a bat in 1/3 of the swing the ball will mostly likely go out of the field and be no good. If you do it at 1/2 then the hit should be perfect. You did all you could do... hit the ball correctly
However towards the end of your swing, around 2/3 of it... it would be the same thing as 1/3.

if it still not clear.

how about this. When you punch someone. To succesfully hit someone your arm must be pretty well extended. If you arm is still in its swing then you loose your momentum. If you are is too far you're whole body lunges fowards and you loose momentum and strenght.

understand?

So the new saber damage tweak is good because it more realistic. you want to do damage, time yourself right and practice ;)

Kinopio
05-07-2002, 05:10 PM
Well yea, think about it, to throw something, why would you need force? to pull it back without strings however requires force. I think they should've put in the feature that lets you drop your saber.

Vision
05-07-2002, 05:13 PM
Yeah I wanna see sabers drop like in single player. Throw that saber too much and you'll get screwed..

Dvlos
05-07-2002, 05:13 PM
THink about it... if these guys (RAven) were playing online, and on their LAN and THEY noticed "accidental deaths" and absurd dmg from getting touched by the tip of a saber on the toe of you character and getting nabbed wiht 100 Hlth and 20 Shld damage silly.. then they are seeing the same thing I am seeing.

I can still kill with 2-4 heavy swings, like a user mentioned and Ravensoft already mentioned only the very begging and the very END of the swing has been toned down *not eliminated.

What that means is this:

YOu will have to study the manner in which the saber moves in all stances, pick and chose your attacks, your saber has to CONNECT with the player if you want to seriously injure them. I think that's all they are saying.

Personally sometimes I opted to play the ladder single player on hard, or the SP game all over again, because it was more exciting and dramatic than MP play. I think making MP more like SP a GOOD THING!! I agree with ALL the users that don't want to see JUST ANOTHER QUAKE3 game, and want a Star Wars game.

I think it would be utterly stupid if Qui Gonn pirotted over to Darth maul and killed him in .2 seconds... or Vader would have just run around the Emperor saber throwing at Luke, or better yet, LUke with a DFA on VAder and dies 0.4 seconds after their encounter! Yay!

To me if that's the SW you always wanted, play counter-strike. Them far away one hit kills probably makes your day.

I like the new system with blocks, parries, multiple stances, etc. When I got the game I was like "Why did they both with light/med/heavy? They should have just made one style and maybe a double tap or something and make it swing harder. I was only using Med/Heavy and LIGHT ONLY if I was cornered and wanted that lunge attack for a win.

NOW the stances make some sense, and you can "specialize" in different styles. I don't know man, I really digged the single player but ALWAYS felt the MP needed some tweaking to get the same cinematic/dramatic effect the SP had... that's what I'm getting at.

If the game was released this way, none of you would ever know, and I think would still love it.

Why? Because you'd play SP and got used to the game then jump right into MP and do the same thing.

EekTheKat
05-07-2002, 05:41 PM
4) I think saber combat should have been left the way it was, leaving the adjustments to the DFA move. Now, either your attacks do around 15 damage, or are blocked.. easily. The gist of saber combat is that you offset ranged attack for a close and risky powerful attack (a light stance swing should be more powerful than a E-11 bolt). But instead, theres now more emphasis on 'swinging and praying' than actually standing back and trying to read where your opponent is going, which is what Medium stance required pre-1.3. I'd know, I used it alot

IMHO you can still stand back + read where your opponent is going. With the changes in speed between light stance, med stance, and heavy stance now there's now more of an opportunity to jump in on a missed swing.

There's also now interrupt animations (knockbacks, parrys) put back into the MP game...and in most instances "swinging and praying" in a duel will cause interrupts now instead of sabers passing through one another + connecting for damage.

Instead of a slow, methodical game that the MP saber game use to be (and that you're describing) now saber battles are now much faster and much tighter close up.

The issue most people are having now is that saber damage was corrected (or "nerfed) depending on how you interpret it (full saber damage now only occurs at the mid arc of the swing).

In short, saber fights are now longer, faster, and more upclose and in your face.

Desslock
05-07-2002, 07:34 PM
In short, saber fights are now longer, faster, and more upclose and in your face.

Also known as fire and pray battles :p

I think it would be utterly stupid if Qui Gonn pirotted over to Darth maul and killed him in .2 seconds... or Vader would have just run around the Emperor saber throwing at Luke, or better yet, LUke with a DFA on VAder and dies 0.4 seconds after their encounter! Yay!

Jedi in Star wars have the ability to predict an opponents move by using the Force. Do you have a strong amount of midi-chlorians running through you?

Also, it is nearly impossible to create a system to control a saber just like a human hand could using keyboard and mouse. You need a more powerful and flexible input system.

If the game was released this way, none of you would ever know, and I think would still love it.


Thats the case with any patch or fix across any game..

but I have a feeling the rest of you dont quite understand. Think of it this way. When you hit a baseball with a bat in 1/3 of the swing the ball will mostly likely go out of the field and be no good. If you do it at 1/2 then the hit should be perfect. You did all you could do... hit the ball correctly
However towards the end of your swing, around 2/3 of it... it would be the same thing as 1/3.

if it still not clear.

how about this. When you punch someone. To succesfully hit someone your arm must be pretty well extended. If you arm is still in its swing then you loose your momentum. If you are is too far you're whole body lunges fowards and you loose momentum and strenght.

The difference here is that a saber is energy, and those two objects described are physical, and have density. Physical objects and force applied to those objects work differently than handling a nearly weightless blade and force applied to that blade.

It should be a question of not how much a saber cuts, but how fast the saber cuts. Appearently everyone has an invisible cortosis suit over them so it doesn't really matter anyway.

So the new saber damage tweak is good because it more realistic. you want to do damage, time yourself right and practice

Patch has been out for a day.. almost no one is master at the new system, as some were of the last system.

Realistic? Not by the definition of the properties of a lightsaber vs. an unprotected individual.

There is a simple solution to all of this.

Don't play.

Thats one out of a batch of solutions. Since there arn't any real good first person shooter games out yet, this is the best I can find that satisfies my desires to fight with a saber and my desires to play a first person shooter. On top of that, that solution is in everyone's mind by now after the countless rantings on this, and other games. I feel sure we all know thats an option.

Don't play is a naive way of putting it. But then again alot of people think 39 dollars is nothing these days.

Especially if someone like me has only one thing to pay for :D

Why? Because you'd play SP and got used to the game then jump right into MP and do the same thing.

Thats true, but MP is still different than SP. Your facing a different type of AI, human intellegence (if such a word is can be applied to some people :) ) so all the tactics wont automatically 'switch-over' as they could from UT to UT2003 or Unreal II, or from Quake I, to II, to even III, even though IMO, III is totally different in terms of how the game plays than the other two aside from the objectives of the gametypes.