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View Full Version : To the whiners...


Zek
05-07-2002, 04:17 PM
The patch has only been out a day, and as anyone who's ever played an online game could have predicted, whiners are aplenty. What pleasure these mystical beings take out of complaining about every change they didn't personally suggest is beyond me. The inability for most of them to form logical opinions that aren't blatantly false or poorly thought out is baffling as well; a popular argument seems to be that the game was fine in the first place, and if it's not broke don't fix it. They insist that the entire community agrees with them and Raven is about to lose their whole playerbase.

To the whiners, I make a couple suggestions:

1.) You can post about how you don't like the patch if you want, but PLEASE think it out a little bit. Minimize the use of expletives. If you make a statement, be sure to BACK IT UP with logical arguments and/or examples(if you haven't played 1.03 yet, don't even bother). Compare how it was before and how it is now, and why you think a particular aspect was better before the patch.

2.) Remember that anything you post is only representing your OWN opinion, and not necessarily anyone else's. No one wants to know about the vast number of people you think feel the same way as you do; if they do, they'll post and agree with you, we don't need you to tell us about their existance. Refrain from using blatant exaggerations such as "everyone" or "always."

3.) And last, but certainly not least: if you can't bring yourself to play and enjoy the game, then stop bothering the people who still want to and do something more worthwhile. If it sucks so much, why are you posting about it on a fansite? Feel free to keep track of the new patches hoping someone was listening to you, but please spare us your incessant moaning.

Face it; the game has changed now, and whether you like it or not, you either have to accept it, play the previous version against bots, or do something else. Things change; maybe you'll have to learn things all over again to adjust, but if you open your mind a little bit I think you'll find most of these changes are for the better.

:violin:

For the rest of you, I propose we start a new trend I like to refer the Whiner's Symphony. Whenever you see a pointless whine, respond with the smiley demonstrated above(type violin with a : on both sides). Maybe it will help them to realize the futility of the uphill battle they're trying to win; at the least, they'll get tired of being unable to start an argument and leave.

Nill the Mean
05-07-2002, 04:22 PM
Worp up, great idea.
I'm all for ignoring people who don't give proper facts to go with their opinion.
Let us all ignore those who want to complain and listen carefully to those who make proper suggestions.

PsYcHoSiX
05-07-2002, 05:09 PM
K, you want legit complaints?
here goes.

My main beef with the main patch - the ammo cost changes. For any of you who have played JK2 ctf with people who actually know anything at all about what they're doing (JO pubs do not count, 95% of the people pubbin JO are true newbies playing their first FPS who run in straight lines and stand still to push/pull, usually not even bothering to do anything else), you would realize that getting a direct hit on someone who knows how to move is extremely difficult. now all they have to do is move a little and push your shots back, evade the others, and in no time you're out of ammo trying to shoot him with a bryar since they changed sabers to be so that it now takes longer for you, running alongside him and swinging, to kill him, than it does for him to make it back to his base with the flag.

ok, you say use other weapons? do you realize both, how weak most of the weapons in JO were to begin with, and how the new blocking affects them? strifle was useable as last ditch. not so now. all that capper has to do is pull out that saber and he'll block an entire clip. knock him down? he still blocks. shoot his back? he still blocks. dont believe me? test it. friend did. turned on rage, fired a full clip of secondary strifle into someones back who was also testing. EVERY SINGLE SHOT WAS BLOCKED. so.. strifle is entirely blocked, bowcaster was difficult enough to hti with.. but those are blocked too now. primary repeater? that always required a lot of time on target to kill. .02c i was able, as a sniper, to snipe using secondary disruptor on somebody, and hit them twice before the spray of repeater shots knocked me down to more than half, this with me standing still. but now it doesnt even matter. cuz the whole clip is blocked anyway, nto that you even have any ammo for it after you fire your shots with secondary that wouldnt even kill him if they had all hit anyway (ever hear of bacta?). DEMP is not in any of the ctf levels, its a moot point. primary flechette? blocked. that leaves us with rockets and its low ammo count as well, the only gun left that is useable, but the ammo has always been even scarcer than that of the other guns. now you'll never find it, cuz everyone will be fighting for it. which brings us back to the saber.

oh joy, once again its mario kart all over! follow the bouncing red capper!

force changes - IMO drain needed a nerf, and heal did too to an extent. but raven, in all their wisdom, instead of 'balancing' as they should have, they just nerfed them to complete uselessness. (look at the mana cost/mana taken from opponent ratio now. its a less than 1 balance, so whats the point?). heal is as bad, if not worse now.

skill isnt an issue when the gameplay type is killed completely.

for thsoe of you who say 'you should be using sabers and force only anyway, if you want guns go back to q3.' well what if I want guns and force? guns are offered everywhere... force is not. play your duels and on your saber only servers, fine, thats what raven made the option for. but why make guns completely unplayable vs anybody who has a clue.

Zek
05-07-2002, 07:37 PM
I don't play CTF much, so I can't claim to know everything about it, but I do know that guns were never supposed to be able to dominate saber-users, which is what the repeater alt fire did. CTF never did seem like a very well thought out gametype(what with Dark Rage, Speed, Force Jump, etc... Catching people is hard). I haven't played CTY much either, but it seems as if it would be better; does Saber Defense work as well with a Ysalamiri?

Originally posted by PsYcHoSiX
force changes - IMO drain needed a nerf, and heal did too to an extent. but raven, in all their wisdom, instead of 'balancing' as they should have, they just nerfed them to complete uselessness. (look at the mana cost/mana taken from opponent ratio now. its a less than 1 balance, so whats the point?). heal is as bad, if not worse now.

I think you're overestimating how useful the heal powers were intended to be. Before, it was basically as long as you had force power and you're paying attention, you can't be killed except by heavy stance. For this reason, 3 stars in your respective power was a must; otherwise you're pretty much screwed in duels. What they are now is more of an extra bonus, a little extra longevity. If you want to be able to heal much health, you can't use the more expensive powers very often(though Push and Pull are cheaper now).

Originally posted by PsYcHoSiX
for thsoe of you who say 'you should be using sabers and force only anyway, if you want guns go back to q3.' well what if I want guns and force? guns are offered everywhere... force is not. play your duels and on your saber only servers, fine, thats what raven made the option for. but why make guns completely unplayable vs anybody who has a clue.

What Raven is trying to do with guns I don't know, but I don't think they're supposed to almost always beat a saber user one on one. The reason gun users dominated the top spots in FFA games before is because they can interrupt duels(even easier now that people are blocking eachother more, you'll have more opportunities to shoot them) and rake in the kills in less "honorable" methods. 1.03 doesn't hurt this kind of gameplay much. Saber users are forced to get up close and hold their attention for a while to make a kill; if they don't want to fight you, have fun catching them.

I'm not delusional enough to think that the gun/saber balance is totally perfect, but you're exaggerating a good deal when you say 1.03 made them useless.

ShadowCell
05-08-2002, 12:42 AM
If you don't like the way MP is now, either play the single player game or play bots, or go look at the Dark Forces MOD site I posted a link to in another thread.

Rogue74
05-08-2002, 12:52 AM
I'm done with MP until Raven fixes it back. They basically made it so even unskilled players can win and killed any fun strategies in the game. Lightsaber fighting was basically made so that you just repeatedly smash your mouse button and you'll eventually hit something!

So everyone who complained about the whiners, now we see that whining will get your point across if your vocal....

jarek
05-08-2002, 01:27 AM
whats worse than a whiner? hearing people whine about whiners!

S!TH!NAT0R
05-08-2002, 01:27 AM
Be a Winner, Not a Whiner!:violin:

Desslock
05-08-2002, 01:35 AM
but if you open your mind a little bit I think you'll find most of these changes are for the better.

Wheres your proof on this statement? :p Its only been out for a day or so. Theres no way to tell.. and yes I'm being a smart-ass.. but a smart-ass with a point, none-the-less. :)

I don't play CTF much, so I can't claim to know everything about it, but I do know that guns were never supposed to be able to dominate saber-users, which is what the repeater alt fire did. CTF never did seem like a very well thought out gametype(what with Dark Rage, Speed, Force Jump, etc... Catching people is hard). I haven't played CTY much either, but it seems as if it would be better; does Saber Defense work as well with a Ysalamiri?

When were guns said to never dominate a saber user?! "If the ways of the jedi were easy (and with little risk), there'd be millions of them". Just because Jedi completely own in the movies is not always the case.. heck Desann killed some Padawan because he didn't think he was powerful enough. Probably never even got to test his abilities much either.

Holy
05-08-2002, 01:42 AM
the patch is overkill.

Holy...out