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View Full Version : A couple thoughts on the patch (you might or might not agree with)


JediCrow
05-08-2002, 04:16 AM
Everyone's either bashing or gushing (sorry, old terms from the Force.net boards) about this patch. Here's a few thoughts I've developed.

1. It seems that the "original" MP saber fighting in Jedi Outcast was a just a "place holder" system while Raven worked on putting the "real" saber fighting system in MP. It was pretty sketchy and unrefined in my opinion, but maybe that's just hind-sight. Either way, it makes alot of sense to me that the MP saber system should be the same as in single player, and I'm just guessing that this patch was planned all-along.

2. I think this patch will bring out the "true saberists" in MP. People that enjoy dueling for the sake of dueling, not playing with every cheap trick they can think of to see their frag count go up. I have and still do play primarily on No Force Saber Only Duel servers, and for the most part there is a healthy attitude of "this is the how the game works now and I'm going to adapt" rather than "this patch is g@y d00d, R@v3n sux."

There you have it, a few thoughts of mine regarding the patch. Flame me or agree with me (or even respectfully disagree with me :) ), but that's where I stand.

Andrinor
05-08-2002, 04:24 AM
For the most part, I do agree. However, I don't think it can be said by any stretch of the imagination that all of the "cheap tricks" have been fixed by this patch. I definitely can see another one on the horizon, and I think it'd be great if Raven checked out forums like this one for some suggestions. I think a lot can be learned here about that opinions of the people playing the game, and it may be naive of me to say it, but I think it is really those (intelligent and coherent) opinions that should matter.

JediCrow
05-08-2002, 04:46 AM
I have to bump this before I go to bed, because I think that at least my first point deserves some reading and discussion.

Kincade
05-08-2002, 04:49 AM
approxmately 3 minutes after the patch 50% of the player base learned of the potential of the backsweep move when someone is on the ground. now everyone that dies to saber dies that way. i was in a duel server and not once did i die other than that sweep. one guy ONLY did that, guess what, he was at the top of the score board; one reason might be that he had it scripted. you didn't even see him turn around ever. he just all the sudden whipped out a big wide arcing spin.

Borf
05-08-2002, 04:56 AM
I agree... too many people after kills and not a good time

dammit

blujay
05-08-2002, 04:59 AM
I appreciate Raven's effort to improve the saber combat, and I appreciate their not just moving on to other projects.

However, frankly, while the non-patched sabering may have had a too-strong DFA move, and a useless light-style, it was simply more fun to play with.

I played in several 1.03 saber games last night, CTF and regular FFA, and in one game, after 9 minutes, the leader had a whopping 7 kills. You can hit people over and over now and it hardly does any damage. It seems like we're swinging twigs now instead of lightsabers. Fights just go on and on and on. You can get in lots of hits, but end up with nothing to show for it. If you can get in a good back-roundhouse swing you can pick up 3 kills at once sometimes. But without that you're just doing nicks and scrapes, not any real damage.

There definitely needs to be another patch. The sabers are too weak now. (You know all the people complaining about the wait in Duel games? Well, go join one now. :) )

Again, I appreciate Raven's effort, but I honestly have more fun with 1.02 than 1.03. And fun is the most important thing.

To close, yes, that's just my opinion, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who somehow have more fun with 1.03 than 1.02. :rolleyes: ;)

Pedantic
05-08-2002, 05:26 AM
I agree with blujay. I don't like how it takes so freakin' long to actually kill someone. It makes me want to only play guns now. How the hell is someone supposed to get a kill playing with a lightsaber in a non-saber-only FFA? And my medium spins...wha?

EekTheKat
05-08-2002, 05:53 AM
1. It seems that the "original" MP saber fighting in Jedi Outcast was a just a "place holder" system while Raven worked on putting the "real" saber fighting system in MP. It was pretty sketchy and unrefined in my opinion, but maybe that's just hind-sight. Either way, it makes alot of sense to me that the MP saber system should be the same as in single player, and I'm just guessing that this patch was planned all-along.

While I don't agree that Raven purposely released a placeholder system, I do agree that MP sabers being like this makes far more sense than it being like the older system.

Back during the first week of release there were literally bucketloads of people who clamored for raven to bring in the SP game, and now they managed to pull off something many of us thought was impossible due to technical limitations.

I for one think the saber combat has been changed for the better, as since the patch I've had quite a few very intense saber duels that easily rank among the most fun I've had with this game.

I also do see the concerns that the CTF players have though, but as a guess I'd say the reason why guns were nerfed the way they are now is because sabers were more or less "nerfed" damagewise - i.e. many of us now have to be far more precise in inflicting full damage when swinging a saber at someone.

To a lot of us the MP saber system that's in place now is not much different than loading up Tavion on the SP pit and dueling it out with her. A month ago (or heck, even 2 weeks ago) the fight with Tavion was to many the definition of how a sword duel should go, and now thanks to this patch we now have a very similar system that's in place that'll let us experience the same thing going head to head with other people. Heck with all the whining going on I almost felt compelled to go back and bump all the different threads that we started a long time ago telling Raven how much we wanted MP sabers to be like SP sabers.

Blocks are *not* occuring too frequently. Blocks now feel a lot like the SP game. The real issue people are having now with blocks is:

1. They have not adjusted to the new saber damage scheme (where the bulk of the damage would come from the meat of the swing).

2. They are having problem gauging whether or not they've inflicted damage on others because for the most part the damage indication (small grunt + very faint sparks coming from the other player) has not changed.

3. The parry's, knockbacks, and interrupts that were not there before are now quite prominent in the game - This is a biggie since they more or less did not exist pre-patch.

Watch very carefully what happens in a saber duel now. The interrupts and knockbacks that occur now leaves the other player stunned a bit for you to begin a counterattack. Where as before the overly aggressive player who randomly attacks without any forethought at all was rarely punished by those who blocked their attacks. This is a very much welcomed changed in my book that goes a long way into making the saber fights feel like saber fights instead of flashlight waving contests. That's all this patch did for the saber game.

From the games that I've played so far, the "old school" waiting game (waiting for your opponent to attack before swinging yourself) still works - there's a good amount of people who have already adapted their old style to the new game mechanics and are still killing in more or less their same manner. Heck I even met a DFA'er who's learned to time the new DFA attack more effectively instead of mindlessly spazzing it out all over the place.

Basically the better players have adapted so far or will adapt to how sabers work now. There's already a good amount of people who are silent or do not post on these boards that are still quite skillful with their lightsabers.

I can't speak much for the CTF'ers...but I do understand their point of view that in a game where players can turn invisible at will, run with super speed, and jump 8x their normal height ammo is crucial in defending their flags. I do think for the most part the ammo nerf is in direct relationship to the saber "damage" correction (where most of the damage from a swing now comes from the "meat" of it)..... one possible solution to this would be to probably up the damage of the sabers a bit while giving ammo back to the gunners.

One thing that I'd love to see adjusted in a future patch is backpeddling speed (and I think this is something quite a lot of people have pointed out) and giving some of the ammo back to the gunners.

Oh well.....I personally love this patch.

flame away.

Imrtl
05-08-2002, 09:25 AM
For the most part I agree with EekThe Kat, people just have to adjust the saber fighting, its no longer a spam fest IMO. Not to say you can't just spam with light and still get a kill because you can. But thats more luck based than skill with the new blocking system.

I for one have a SP game saved right at the Tavion fight and spend hours just fighting her. But now I can enjoy battles like that in MP too.

I feel there are still some issues however that need to be addressed tho.

1) the backswing seems to be more powerful than any other saber swing

2) They need to slow down backwards running speeds. (which actually I think EekTheKat mentioned aswell)

3) give the gunner back their ammo, I think I have only been killed once by a gunner b4 or after the patch and he rocketed me from behind while I was engaged with someone else. Gunners are/were not a real threat to a saber wielder IMO.

4) personally I would like to see sabers do a little more damage but this may just be a result of me not hitting with the meat of the swing I'm not sure yet.

All in all I think that with the patch only been out for a couple days I'm going to give it a few more days before I pass judgement on it. So far for the most part I like what I see.

Lucky
05-08-2002, 09:32 AM
Solution: Quit nerfing crap.

The weapons should be *deadly* they shouldn't be harmless. And right now thats about all they are, its a pillow fight that looks pretty now.

Make the sabers do more damage, give the guns more ammo, make the force powers more POWERFUL and make sure everything has a counter maneuver and then don't ever patch the game again.

On top of that, hire some g'damn play testers and run ideas by them before you release crap like this again.


Lucky

JediCrow
05-08-2002, 11:37 AM
Wow, lucky, thanks for spamming my thread.