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GileS__l7l
05-08-2002, 04:02 AM
Sigh. When the beer tastes good, don't water it down.

The tempo, style, and gameplay of JKO has been changed so drastically with this patch that I personally don't enjoy the game anymore.

Did all the whining newbs that didn't know how to get out of a griP™ or avoid being drained cry enough for this to happen to an insanely fun game? So what if the one hitter was powerful, or you could griP™ off a ledge...experienced players can avoid these things, and I am one of them.

Instead of screwing with the game mechanics, why not just make more maps like BGJ where you cant griP™ someone off a ledge? Or tweak force powers that SUCK like some light-sides instead of killing the ones that make the game fun??

Now what was an even paced game has been transformed into a watered down-swinging-fest that is more reminiscent of it's ancient predecessor. I think I would rather go play Jedi Knight, the force powers are now similar and so is the saber fighting.

And it aint 49.99...since the patch has changed the game so drastically, I would like to claim dissatisfaction with the product and receive a prompt refund. LucasArts/Raven, are you listening?

Hateplow
05-08-2002, 04:09 AM
http://www.strike9.com/file.aspx/path=/Hate+Plow/fullsize%5cOwned/wot+copy.jpg

idlemind
05-08-2002, 04:26 AM
I hate the new patch for reasons I have mentioned on numerous previous occassions. mostly because saber fighting, no matter what people say, is worse now.

There is so much blocking and so many "pretty flashes of lights oooooo" that i have no idea if i just hit the other guy, or if he just hit me. Was the saber fighting really so bad in 1.02 that they had to completely overhaul. And to everyone who says it's really not that different, did you even play the game before today? The only way you could not notive a drastic change is if you used to just run around spinning in yellow or blue, instead of performing controlled combos. There are no more controlled combos, everything gets blocked which interrupts the combos. Or the combos have become so slow that they are useless because someone will just throw their saber at you. So you end up just rushing them with blue or yellow like a headless chicken.

Please make saber fighting back to what it used to be. I can't see how anyone who used to play before today can honestly say they like this system better. I really don't think they are human.

GileS__l7l
05-08-2002, 04:31 AM
Amen, brother, sing it

failsaf3
05-08-2002, 04:39 AM
I think this is actually the Beta that was accidentally released as a patch. What am I saying, I think Raven originally intended for saber fights to happen with your opponent charging you backwards hoping to land a reverse spinning slash- just like the movies!!!

Saber is now lame.

Force is now lame.

Game is now lame.

I'll now be sure to tell friends to save their $50.

Hey Raven just in case I forgot.................Thanks for ruining a halfway MP decent game. My JKII disc can now keep JKI disc company in the back of my closet!!!

Thanks again guys.

rut-wa jodar
05-08-2002, 07:27 AM
WHINERS !!!!!!!!

If you don`t like it ..... MOVE TO RUSSIA
:violin: :violin:

SaberPro
05-08-2002, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by rut-wa jodar
WHINERS !!!!!!!!

If you don`t like it ..... MOVE TO RUSSIA
:violin: :violin:

Sounds like you're a racist, no?

Lucky
05-08-2002, 07:40 AM
The patch has totally screwed up the balance of the game.

The patch is the direct result of all the WHINING that went on on these forums.

What should we do? they screwed it up, apparently whining is the only way to get anything across to the developers. Sitting here and silently hoping that the competitive scene somehow survives is just ridiculous.

Lucky

SaberPro
05-08-2002, 07:44 AM
I wonder why Raven tweaked the hold DFA (heavy stance 1-hitter)...

cuz people are whining and moaning and b*tching about it on the forum :)

rut-wa jodar
05-08-2002, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by SaberPro


Sounds like you're a racist, no?

Sounds like you're on drugs, no ? :violin:

SaberPro
05-08-2002, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by rut-wa jodar


Sounds like you're on drugs, no ? :violin:

A little translation from your quote: WHINER, MOVE TO RUSSIA, therefore, you're concluding all Russians are whiner, no? what makes you think that? And now let me re-ask YOUR question: Sounds like you're on drugs, no?

Samiam
05-08-2002, 08:02 AM
I hate the patch with a passion. N00bs rejoice (they are the only ones that like it because they can actualy kill someone now). I won't be playing MP until they fix this mess. :mad:

rut-wa jodar
05-08-2002, 08:06 AM
Now who`s putting words into peoples mouths ?

That`s only your translation. not mine.... sounds like you have spat your dummy out :violin:

tam
05-08-2002, 08:06 AM
god. u guys asked for sp saber combat. and they brought it to u. and now that u were too used to mp combat and dont wanna get used to sp combat again u hate them? gah. you guys whine at everything. no matter what they do, you people just find 1 single flaw in the game, and start to complain. god. u people make me sick. u wanna do better guys? go and make ur own jk game and we'll see how many complaints u get from it.


on the current issue, the combat is good still. but to satisfy both people in the next patch, why not just make an option for sp style combat and mp style combat for the dedicated server admins. so they decide if they want the new combat or the old combat.

rut-wa jodar
05-08-2002, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by tam
god. u guys asked for sp saber combat. and they brought it to u. and now that u were too used to mp combat and dont wanna get used to sp combat again u hate them? gah. you guys whine at everything. no matter what they do, you people just find 1 single flaw in the game, and start to complain. god. u people make me sick. u wanna do better guys? go and make ur own jk game and we'll see how many complaints u get from it.


on the current issue, the combat is good still. but to satisfy both people in the next patch, why not just make an option for sp style combat and mp style combat for the dedicated server admins. so they decide if they want the new combat or the old combat.

WELL PUT !! :D

Darksider
05-08-2002, 08:08 AM
Here, I brought a platter of cheese to go with your whines.

SaberPro
05-08-2002, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by rut-wa jodar
Now who`s putting words into peoples mouths ?

That`s only your translation. not mine.... sounds like you have spat your dummy out :violin:

Aren't language an united communication tool? I bet most of the people see it like I do (proves you're on drug) and rephrase what you said.

Lucky
05-08-2002, 08:09 AM
*cough* ctf is nearly unplayable now *cough*

*cough* couldn't give less of a sh!t bout which system they use for sabers *cough*

zufuss
05-08-2002, 08:22 AM
btw there was not a mass calling for reducing ammo in ctf. when you play ctf guns are all thats used.

The patch is great...give those lame ctf'ers their ammo back and all is fine.

cept the janitors that do nothing but sweep.

Lucky
05-08-2002, 08:29 AM
There was a mass of people wanking for the saber to be the uber weapon, and another mass of mostly the same people wanking for it to be more cinematic/sp like, and another mass of mostly the same people complaining about DFA and heavy stance.

All of those people got my g'damn guns nerfed, ruined ctf, and generally managed to cajole raven into seriously screwing up the game.

Now sabers are more cinematic, even less balanced against guns, there are even more ridiculous exploits, and the guns are somehow ineffective enough to keep us from playing CTF, mainly due to ridiculous ammo constraints.

On top of that, they nerfed the forces in such a way that THEY'RE unbalanced as well.

Essentially all the whining scared Raven into a reactionary position that screwed the game up for just about everyone.

Its like fighting with wiffle bats and squirt guns. I have more fun flicking lint. At least it looks pretty and cinematic and I can roleplay that I'm luke skywalker if I ever lose my mind =P


Lucky

Krak3n
05-08-2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by failsaf3

Saber is now lame.

Force is now lame.

Game is now lame.

I'll now be sure to tell friends to save their $50.


hmm, don't like it? then go and play somthing else and quit your whining.

Gaming Nut
05-08-2002, 09:31 AM
I'd like them to chaneg some things but suppsoe I can live with it.

People that call anyone with a complaint a whiner. Need to shut up it never seems to cross these morons minds that they might have vaild compliant and that half the itme they where the ones complaining before something changed. its also their opinoin not yours.

What I like: drain nerfed heal nerfed maybe they where nerfed to much but they certainly needed to be toned down, Better looking saber fights.

What I dislike: Grip nerfed it was fine, The lameness of saber combat say what you will but random swinging works better then slow well placed shots well now, turbo blocking makes combos **** as they just get blocked, still hard to tell if you’ve hurt a person, the guns wheren’t bad IMO as said CTF is now very hard to play its gonna have to be CTY now since you can’t use the forces when you have it, janitors nuf said.

As you can see the bad outweighs the good atleast for me it may not have ruined it thou it’s less fun. Also theirs frankly no other game out their that simulates melee combat with long swords.

Ill still play thou I bet that clone campgains will take up more of time then JK2 now.

Darth Skyw@lker
05-08-2002, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Hateplow
http://www.strike9.com/file.aspx/path=/Hate+Plow/fullsize%5cOwned/wot+copy.jpg

OH YEAH WE KNOW IT;)

tam
05-08-2002, 09:48 AM
god, will u guys stop complaining. do what i did, dont hate it, suggest things to improve it :P

uteboy
05-08-2002, 09:57 AM
Of course there is also the possibility that after noting some of the comments on these boards and elsewhere, that Raven actually went and EXTENSIVELY PLAYED THE GAME THEMSELVES to figure out which parts of it needed balancing/altering.

I very much doubt they altered the things they did just because some people complained about it. It would only have given them ideas as to what needed looking at. The decision for change I am sure would have come from their vision of what makes the game better/more playable.

The_Mormegil
05-08-2002, 10:07 AM
The saber combat is so ****e now, all the whining gay playersl are happy with this patch but I want them all to burn in hell for being stupid. I really, really, really £ucking hate this patch.

im not gonna use it because its just not fun ffs, this patch doesnt even deserve any intelligient comments & I can't control the anger i feel for the patched version.

PATCHED VERSION = GOOD FOR WOMEN AND FAGGOTS

Desslock
05-08-2002, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Krak3n


hmm, don't like it? then go and play somthing else and quit your whining.

Don't like whiners? Goto another forum. Any task force will never get rid of them..

I never heard anyone wanting SP combat in MP. I would like to see, at least 3 threads on the subject. I know it couldn't be as heavily debated as the DFA. And Raven actually said that there was something wrong with the DFA. Now, if it was combined with the old saber damage system, it would be fine.

If Raven changed the game back to the old system, no one would really notice or whine since no one has wasted an extraordinary amount of time practicing with it.

The_Mormegil
05-08-2002, 10:34 AM
I could never get into the sp saber combat, why would I? Ive got a decent bloody connection. The pre patch MP version was just way more playable.

The games just doesn't even look right anymore. The animation's wierd. I can't stress the fact that i hate it enuff.

Way1ander
05-08-2002, 10:51 AM
The 1.03 patch changed the multiplayerexperince totally... Before the patch, real skill was needed in multiplayercombat.

Now your character runs around with a weapon that Luke Skywalker, jedis and siths everywhere would have scorned as a inferior saber. Fit only for children..

That they took away the DFA powermove was good, the rest should have stayed.

Dvlos
05-08-2002, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by failsaf3
Hey Raven just in case I forgot.................Thanks for ruining a halfway MP decent game. My JKII disc can now keep JKI disc company in the back of my closet!!!


AHAHAH!!!

Didn't you just love JK1? First mouse had a regular attack, the second one did this figure-8 super slash around the world however.. To land it you didn't have to connect with the player but probably make sure the saber went about 2-3 virtual feet in front of him while you used force speed to dance around the map.

JK1 Highlights... 4-8 players on force speed jumping wildly at full force speed doing nothing but alt slash hoping to get lucky...

But you still played it and love it right? So if you think the patch is now wild spamming and crazy swings... YOU MUST LOVE JK2 NOW TOO!! WOOHOO!!

DarkAgent
05-08-2002, 11:25 AM
WAAAAH! I can't spam DFA anymore!

WAAAAH! I can't spam Drain anymore!

WAAAAH! I can't spam Heal anymore!

WAAAAH! WAAAAAH! WAAAAH!

Grow up people. :rolleyes: The patch was put in to prevent spamming. It is totally playable - get used to it.

DA

:atat: :atat: :atat: vs:mad: Whiner

Desslock
05-08-2002, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by DarkAgent
WAAAAH! I can't spam DFA anymore!

WAAAAH! I can't spam Drain anymore!

WAAAAH! I can't spam Heal anymore!

WAAAAH! WAAAAAH! WAAAAH!

Grow up people. :rolleyes: The patch was put in to prevent spamming. It is totally playable - get used to it.

DA

:atat: :atat: :atat: vs:mad: Whiner

Except people are NOT WHINING ABOUT THAT as much as they are about the new damage.

Zek
05-08-2002, 11:42 AM
:violin:

DarkAgent
05-08-2002, 11:47 AM
A wise man once said: ":violin:"

(I think it was Zek)

LOL :p

Damar Stiehl
05-08-2002, 11:50 AM
I could give a f##k less about Drain and Heal being spammed, because now instead of that saber combat is being spammed. You can play at being skillful and all, but in general, "switch to light and press hard" is a nary-infalliable strategy.

Sure, it looks like the movies; oh hell, I guess everyone in Star Wars was a light-stance spammer. I don't care much for DFA; never over-used it myself and never fell for it too much once I got a bit better. It's was and is the most avoidable move in the game.

And for sakes, stop calling complainers whiners. You whined before, and whined yourself a patch. And rut-wa jodar, say something else about Russia and you'll need a proctologist to extract your teeth from your lower intestines, moron.

TheDarkSide
05-08-2002, 12:00 PM
Before the patch, real skill was needed in multiplayercombat.


Okay once for all, will somebody explain in a flame-less, intelligent
sounding post, how the above statement could be true?

I will post my thoughts first:

First what the patch primarily did was add blocking into the equation. Auto-blocking and manual parrying. Yes manual parrying. In light stance, I've swung at the same time as my opponent with the intent of hitting his attack mid-swing, with a successful deflection of his attack. If you think this doesn't require skill, let me know. In essence they made it harder to
land a frontal attack. Side and rear attacks are not blocked.

Pre-patch there was no blocking of sabers, ever! If you had saber defense level 3 all it was really good for was blocking gun fire. What this had the effect of was all you had to do was wait until your opponent did ANYTHING (didn't matter what it was) and you knew he was vulnerable to ANY attack you wished to perform. If he was in the light stance he was pretty much vulnerable to anything but gun fire even when just standing there.

I think you can't really say that either system requires more or less skill. The automatic portion of the whole system has just changed from easier offense to easier defense. Makes people harder to kill, definitely.

The basic gist of the argument I see from people upset is that it's so easy to block now even newbies can win. Well, don't you see the glaring flaw in that logic?? It's way harder to land a hit with a random spamming attack, but yet somehow a newbie can land aimed hits on you, a skilled veteran player of a month (slight sarcasm), while you can't do likewise?

One last thing - to everyone complaining (whining is something way different from complaining, so I'm not going to stoop to calling anybody whiners here) about the red or med stance backswing. You guys are acting like it wasn't there in the previous version. It was. It was just as powerful...Raven
didn't touch anything with that aspect.

TDS

fitzwilliamd
05-08-2002, 12:20 PM
The game is ruined.

I played the game exclusively for the intense light saber combat. The experience was so enjoyable that I planned on upgrading my memory and video with a Geforce4 just to play JK2.

I do not post to be argumentative. I post because I am disappointed that Raven chose to completely change the saber combat system that made this an award winning game.

:usa:

Gaming Nut
05-08-2002, 12:21 PM
Blocking was their and it worked quite well just wasn't animated well and didnt work quite As well moving. But if you stood still in any stance but heavy and got in coner no attack save DFA could get trough.

I thought that but didnt post it theirs a big diffrance between whiners and compliants shame it gets lost simlair to NooB and newbie.

tam
05-08-2002, 02:41 PM
ok, instead of complaining, say what they can do better :P stop being like "ITS RUINED NOW, I HATE IT" ok, we know that, say why and suggest how they can fix it.

second of all. for all the people who loved the normal mp combat, why not just aks them to patch it so u can pick between the two modes for dedicated server "do u want to have sp combat or mp combat". like that. but keep the working dismemberment, keep the chat boxes, and keep the double kick. and keep heavy the same as it is now. all the difference in gamre modes would do is change the yellow and blue to what they were before. red is fine how it is, and dont u think about complaining about that. anyways. i see a option to pick between the two as being a good idea. keep all the force the same too. everything else is fine but some people want sp combat some people want mp combat. thats it. simply fixed

ps. maybe add all the animations and taunts used in sp too? :)

flippo
05-08-2002, 03:28 PM
i'm pretty sure this thread was meant as venting area for people who don't like the patch to talk about it with others. now it's just become a flame fest.

remember: i may be a ``whiner'' but you're a flamer.

dansolo
05-08-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by DarkAgent
Grow up people. :rolleyes: The patch was put in to prevent spamming. It is totally playable - get used to it.

Yep.
:violin:

grandmasterlee
05-08-2002, 03:59 PM
I never liked single player saber combat....felt too "whiffle ball battish" to me, and now its in MP........oh well, guess I just won't play anymore, I agree the changes overall are not an improvement overall :(

Admiral Jerrodd
05-08-2002, 04:11 PM
Uh oh... whiners, flamers, "it sucks" and so on and so on. Now haven't I heared and seen this childish behaviour before?

Yes I have.

Please whiners, go back to CS where you apperantly seem to come from. Not to DoD because I will close your whining posts on bloody sight.

Good.. enough of this flamatory action-reaction "debates" We're seeing on more and more gaming forums. It seems the entire gaming communities seem to be sick and going to hell, instead of only the CS community, like most of us thought at first. This seems to be a bigger, more threatening defelopment within the gaming communities of the world.

The root of this might well be what is said on this forum on another thread, which basically comes down to the fact that Players online seem to be interested, only interested at winning, "owning" with high numbers, and NOT with gaming immersion. True gaming pleasure in Multiplayer mode seems only possible on LAN's (with friends even) or with bots who don't go for the cheapest kill or spam certain moves/tactics all the time only for the sake of winning, then bragging about sk1llz0rz in whatever 1337 speech they come up with now. It is this mentality that leads to the apperance of Cheaters and lamers in servers of whatever game that is populair at the moment.


So... to all the whiners. (and that you are who don't give a constructive reason for not liking the patch)

This new patch is one of the greatest patches for a Star wars game released, with extra maps and tons of additions and tweaks for the better. But above all, this patch is about gaming immersion and a more involved, movie-like experience in multiplayer.. the way it should. It is making this game in multiplayer as close to the movies as it possibly could be. That's why it is a game based on a movie series (star wars) in the bloody first place.


There should be no consideration for those who only play a game for the sake of winning, and who disrespect their fellow gamers on servers. because that is the attitude of most of these "1337"/vet players who any star wars game can do without. They should join their fellow "I want to win only" players in any hit-kill game like CS and Quake3.

Kinopio
05-08-2002, 04:28 PM
It stinks, i'll try though

DarkAgent
05-08-2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Jerrodd
The root of this might well be what is said on this forum on another thread, which basically comes down to the fact that Players online seem to be interested, only interested at winning, "owning" with high numbers, and NOT with gaming immersion.

YES !!!! You totally nailed it there.

DA

TheDarkSide
05-08-2002, 04:54 PM
Rack it!

Admiral Jerrod you put many of our feelings into that one post much better than many of us could. Excellent points. Better grab your flame retardant suit...it's going to get toasty in here.

TDS

SaberPro
05-08-2002, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Jerrodd

Please whiners, go back to CS where you apperantly seem to come from. Not to DoD because I will close your whining posts on bloody sight.


Guess why people left CS for JK2. It's because CS is ruined after Beta 5.5, and the people designed it didn't do anything about it.


The root of this might well be what is said on this forum on another thread, which basically comes down to the fact that Players online seem to be interested, only interested at winning, "owning" with high numbers, and NOT with gaming immersion. True gaming pleasure in Multiplayer mode seems only possible on LAN's (with friends even) or with bots who don't go for the cheapest kill or spam certain moves/tactics all the time only for the sake of winning, then bragging about sk1llz0rz in whatever 1337 speech they come up with now. It is this mentality that leads to the apperance of Cheaters and lamers in servers of whatever game that is populair at the moment.


I, for one, don't like bragging about my "sk1||z0rz" or being 1337 (Cuz there's always someone better :)). I, for one, liked realism and accuracy in games. And I PERSONALLY think that the new patch ruined the realism and accuracy in SW Multiplayer gaming. For instance, people in FFAs would now fight BACKWARDS because the backhits are super duper powerful and is capable of killing many in one slash. Now I've never seen a SW movies where Luke fights backward lol


This new patch is one of the greatest patches for a Star wars game released, with extra maps and tons of additions and tweaks for the better. But above all, this patch is about gaming immersion and a more involved, movie-like experience in multiplayer.. the way it should. It is making this game in multiplayer as close to the movies as it possibly could be. That's why it is a game based on a movie series (star wars) in the bloody first place.


Come to think of the unfixed crashes in gameplay, I don't think the patch is all that great. But I have to agree with you that the maps are cool. And as I said above, the patch is making duels like non-movie-liked duels and FFAs into hack-n-slash fest (it's a very sad fact). Only one perspective that the patch made duels like the movie: loads of blockings. The way it is supposed to be.

There should be no consideration for those who only play a game for the sake of winning, and who disrespect their fellow gamers on servers. because that is the attitude of most of these "1337"/vet players who any star wars game can do without.

I second that :)

Above are only facts I've gathered while using the new patch and with some of my own thoughts. :)

Rogue74
05-08-2002, 05:13 PM
OMG, I'm a whiner now... :D

I agree that IMO I think the patch basically gives all the n00bs and the people who didn't bother figuring out the game and practicing the ability to kill more skilled players.

I'm gonna give it a while though, but I doubt it will get any better.

The patch basically makes the game the "new formula Coke..." It sucked.

DarkAgent
05-08-2002, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Rogue74
OMG, I'm a whiner now... :D

I agree that IMO I think the patch basically gives all the n00bs and the people who didn't bother figuring out the game and practicing the ability to kill more skilled players.

I'm gonna give it a while though, but I doubt it will get any better.

The patch basically makes the game the "new formula Coke..." It sucked.

I disagree there. All the patch did was level the playing field <temporarily>. Noobs and Veteren players are now more evenly matched. Skilled players must now re-learn strategies in multiplayer.

It's not going to take long to separate the men from the boys here once people get used to the new patch.

DA

mIRC
05-08-2002, 05:25 PM
Agreed, this patch is ruined.

Just don't even bother with other people, just quitely delete JKII and use the CD as a frisbee for your favorite pet, or you can reinstall and not upgrade and hope that some people will host servers without the patch.

Getting a refund would be better too, maybe Lucas Arts could make that an option.

SaberPro
05-08-2002, 05:31 PM
This makes a perfect poll: Do you think that RavenSoft would do something about the patch from a number of people giving negative comments about it?

65 liked : 33 disliked so far on the poll...

LooNBB
05-08-2002, 05:31 PM
What's wrong with Whining? many of them paid their $$... bitch away.

Now... if you copied the game SHUT THE HELL UP you Ungrateful Warez Whore!

geronimo27
05-08-2002, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by rut-wa jodar
WHINERS !!!!!!!!

If you don`t like it ..... MOVE TO RUSSIA
:violin: :violin:

Actually, the reason I live in the United States is so that I CAN voice my satisfaction or dissatisfaction about a product, service, event, person, or any other damn thing I please.

If you believe that people should not be allowed to voice their opinions, then YOU should move to Russia. You should love it there.

Krak3n
05-08-2002, 06:02 PM
People can voice their opinions, but it's whiners who complain non stop 24 f**king 7 that really pisses people like me off. If you don't like, go play somthing else, stop moaning about it to us becasue we like and play it.

Also if people played it and got used to it like real gamers then theri would be no problem. It's a challlenge to beat, and once you do you'll be glad you stuvk with it!

Krak3n

MARKUSPRIME
05-08-2002, 06:13 PM
The patch sucks bottom line it now just gives all the llamas that got raped before a chance lol. I still own tho with it, but yeah it blows assssss. And no i wasnt just a dfa whore i used hvy and yellow. I got flamed on my post yesterday about the patch sucking, hehe i dont care i actually have a real life and dont need to troll and defend myself to fools that sucked in the first place . CYA!

Admiral Jerrodd
05-08-2002, 06:14 PM
America-Russia?



What's this, a History and Country bashing thread?

I think on another board (*cough*) the Histroy board got closed because of Country/race bashing, followed by the oh so known flaming.

Please be carefull in these matters. They seem to be very sensitive to sensitive persons with long toes.

TheDarkSide
05-08-2002, 06:17 PM
the patch basically gives all the n00bs and the people who didn't bother figuring out the game and practicing the ability to kill more skilled players.

Okay rogue74, I noticed you didn't read or didn't bother to respond to my post a few posts up here. How can you even claim to make such a statement?? :D

I had skill in the old system, I figured out the game, and when this patch came along, I accepted the fact I would have to "unlearn what I had learned" and start over. I can already see the difference on public servers...the saber system is much deeper than before. Sure blocking is easier, but that doesn't make it easier to kill anyone! It makes it harder! The breakdown in your logic is that the new system makes it harder for random attacks to connect, if anything newbies will have a harder go of it, not the other way around.

This sounds like classic whining to me. :violin:

Explain how the new system gives newbies the ability to kill skilled players, but not vice versa? :D

TDS

JRA_Wolf
05-08-2002, 06:24 PM
Ummm....*tries to understand markus*...Like I said, Hooked on phonics..works wonders, mate. You should also get off your high horse. "patch sucks i still own with it but yeah it blowsss asssssss" How 1337 is that? Woo. Who is the _really_ good player here: The player who simply assumes a player is a "newb" or "llama" because of the saber stance they use, or the player who actually enjoys the game and uses the saber stances that aren't totally unbalanced (pre-patch situation. Post patch everything is balanced perfectly, imo, except guns). Now after the patch, someone using light or medium saber stance has just as much of a chance at winning as the person using heavy.

Oh, and to whiners...get used to it 'Cause the patch is staying (right from the mouth of Mike Gummelt)

------------------
*Part of the "I love the patch and whiners can kiss my ass" Army*

Lorilas
05-08-2002, 06:24 PM
All these "Stop the ****ing whining" whiners crack me up.

geronimo27
05-08-2002, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Krak3n
People can voice their opinions, but it's whiners who complain non stop 24 f**king 7 that really pisses people like me off. If you don't like, go play somthing else, stop moaning about it to us becasue we like and play it.

Also if people played it and got used to it like real gamers then theri would be no problem. It's a challlenge to beat, and once you do you'll be glad you stuvk with it!

Krak3n

That's funny, because it was the skilless newbie whiners that brought about all of these nerfs in the first place. If you like it now, then I can only assume that you were, and still are, a skilless newbie whiner.

No, I will not go somewhere else. I enjoyed the game back when it took skill, and just because it has been modified to accomodate you spinning twirlers, doesn't mean I am going to leave. What I have done is reverted my popular server back to 1.02, and all of my regulars are very happy.

Also, I will continue complaining and campaigning for a better patch.

Thanks, and please drive through.

Originally posted by tam
god. u guys asked for sp saber combat. and they brought it to u. and now that u were too used to mp combat and dont wanna get used to sp combat again u hate them? gah. you guys whine at everything. no matter what they do, you people just find 1 single flaw in the game, and start to complain. god. u people make me sick. u wanna do better guys? go and make ur own jk game and we'll see how many complaints u get from it.


on the current issue, the combat is good still. but to satisfy both people in the next patch, why not just make an option for sp style combat and mp style combat for the dedicated server admins. so they decide if they want the new combat or the old combat.

Tam, I am unsure who "you guys" are that you are referring to, but I never once visited these boards before this patch requesting anything, because I was happy with every aspect of MP. However, now that the patch has been implemented and screwed up everything about the game that I enjoyed, yes, I am here now to complain.

Before the patch, I could successfully use all three stances when the type of battle called for each one. I could easily jump or flip whenever I wanted to. Btw, if people are flipping when they meant to jump, it's because they were not positioned correctly to connect the kick - hence they just were not doing it correctly. The whole reason why there were high damage moves in the strong stance is because the swings are so slow, and very predictable. I was able to quickly learn how to guard against these predictable moves. I did notice, though, that there were some people who just never learned. I could kill them the same way 30 times in a row and they would never learn. That type of person will always play stupidly, and will never learn, regardless of whether a strong, medium, or fast stance.

The patch was created for the skilless newbie players who do nothing but use fast stance and spin around in circles blindly swinging away. But now the patch nerfed strong stance, thus giving the spinning twirlers an equal chance against a skilled strong stance.

I will not play any version of this game above 1.02, unless they redo the patch, or else they use a toggle like you suggest. While I don't think it will happen, it would be nice.

Krak3n
05-08-2002, 06:27 PM
nicly said TDS. I too mastered the old system but realise that in order to master the new system i must start over. You can tell a n00b from a l33t player if the n00b player gives excuses for loosing, that is what all the ppl syaing 'the patch sucks' are doing.
If you took time to learn the patch and put effort in you'd see it for what it is....a superb addition to the game.

You all forget it was people on this borad moaning in the 1st place that propmted Raven to make the changes in the 1st place. Truly goes to show how whiners are never happy. When the game was released this borad was filled with 'MP saber combat is crap, it should be more like SP' well now you have it.

DarkAgent
05-08-2002, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by TheDarkSide

I had skill in the old system, I figured out the game, and when this patch came along, I accepted the fact I would have to "unlearn what I had learned" and start over. I can already see the difference on public servers...the saber system is much deeper than before. Sure blocking is easier, but that doesn't make it easier to kill anyone! It makes it harder! The breakdown in your logic is that the new system makes it harder for random attacks to connect, if anything newbies will have a harder go of it, not the other way around.

This sounds like classic whining to me. :violin:

Explain how the new system gives newbies the ability to kill skilled players, but not vice versa? :D

TDS

Agreed.

Nobady has an adantage over anybody else unless they are more skilled at playing. We're all playing the same game here. I loved the game prior to 1.03 patch and love it even more after.

If you don't like it, then perhaps [Jedi Mind Trick ON] "You don't need this patch; This is not the patch you're looking for.... move along!" [/Mind Trick OFF]

LOL

DA :D

Jessicka
05-08-2002, 06:33 PM
patch sucks. Raven has a good track record of sucking. Someone else is doing some BETTER changes tothe game though, a sort of mod. FRIII. Bye

Tozier
05-08-2002, 06:35 PM
I like what they did with the patch, but it's too damn buggy. When you do the middle cartwheel move by pressing attack, then jumping (I find it easier to do that way, rather than jumping over and pressing attack) if you missed with the old system, you would give him a swift kick, now you bounce off like the swift kick, but do no damage, and it shakily switches to the standing animation in mid air, and leave you vulnerable. You could block fairly "realistically" (if Star Wars is realistic) before, but now it's rediculous, like the Reborn Bosses or Desann. It's taking more time to get the same job done, and more frustrating. I could mop the floor with medium, and only use heavy when I got REALY pissed. Now I seem to do less damage, attack more slowly and have less control, possibly because I had the middle stance down to a science. There seems to be an inordinate amount of lag, and I can't figure out why.

What Raven did was to exactly graft the SP system onto MP and prey, without modifying the swift kick bounce-off, but disabling the swift kick. Because of so much whining, Raven provided a quick fix to the annoyances, only to cause a WORSE flood of whining. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but it's true.
I think it would be a good idea to have someone at raven come onto the boards and answer questions and explain some things.

My 2 cents, and I'm really trying NOT to start arguments.

SaberPro
05-08-2002, 07:26 PM
To avoid people who whines about how people 'whine', let's just say that UNPATCHED VERSION OF JK2 RULES! :)

Tozier
05-08-2002, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by SaberPro
To avoid people who whines about how people 'whine', let's just say that UNPATCHED VERSION OF JK2 RULES! :)

Thank you, my friend.

Ulic Quel Droma
05-08-2002, 07:39 PM
idiots if you dont like the game dont play it dont sit her going on about the saber system its better now if your guys cant handle the changes get off the forums and wait for SOF2

mIRC
05-08-2002, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by geronimo27


That's funny, because it was the skilless newbie whiners that brought about all of these nerfs in the first place. If you like it now, then I can only assume that you were, and still are, a skilless newbie whiner.

No, I will not go somewhere else. I enjoyed the game back when it took skill, and just because it has been modified to accomodate you spinning twirlers, doesn't mean I am going to leave. What I have done is reverted my popular server back to 1.02, and all of my regulars are very happy.

Also, I will continue complaining and campaigning for a better patch.

Thanks, and please drive through.



Tam, I am unsure who "you guys" are that you are referring to, but I never once visited these boards before this patch requesting anything, because I was happy with every aspect of MP. However, now that the patch has been implemented and screwed up everything about the game that I enjoyed, yes, I am here now to complain.

Before the patch, I could successfully use all three stances when the type of battle called for each one. I could easily jump or flip whenever I wanted to. Btw, if people are flipping when they meant to jump, it's because they were not positioned correctly to connect the kick - hence they just were not doing it correctly. The whole reason why there were high damage moves in the strong stance is because the swings are so slow, and very predictable. I was able to quickly learn how to guard against these predictable moves. I did notice, though, that there were some people who just never learned. I could kill them the same way 30 times in a row and they would never learn. That type of person will always play stupidly, and will never learn, regardless of whether a strong, medium, or fast stance.

The patch was created for the skilless newbie players who do nothing but use fast stance and spin around in circles blindly swinging away. But now the patch nerfed strong stance, thus giving the spinning twirlers an equal chance against a skilled strong stance.

I will not play any version of this game above 1.02, unless they redo the patch, or else they use a toggle like you suggest. While I don't think it will happen, it would be nice.

I agree 100%.

Whats the IP and Port of your server? I would love to play there sometime :)

Don't worry about tam either, I've played him and he just complains and bull****s. I play for fun, but one time he said he would own me, I owned him, and he said he was just happy with his kill :)

mIRC
05-08-2002, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Ulic Quel Droma
idiots if you dont like the game dont play it dont sit her going on about the saber system its better now if your guys cant handle the changes get off the forums and wait for SOF2

SoF2 isn't really that great. I know a Quake III Arena mod with better gameplay. The only thing SoF2 has going for it is the graphics. although, I have to admit I still play it.

geronimo27
05-08-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Ulic Quel Droma
idiots if you dont like the game dont play it dont sit her going on about the saber system its better now if your guys cant handle the changes get off the forums and wait for SOF2

No thanks, I will remain here and continue complaining about what I dislike about the game which I purchased, and can no longer return.

I find it humorous that all the people who say they like the patch and cannot stand those who complain about the patch are the very same whiners that caused the nerfs in the patch in the first place.

It's unfortunate they spent too much time whining and not enough time learning the game and gaining skill, and now the game has been nerfed so that any New Newb on the Block can blindly twirl and spin their way into the high ranks of stats pages.

It's funny. Because of Episode II coming out soon I was rewatching all of the original Star Wars movies, and looking at the saber fights. They are true skilled fights. Then I looked at saber fights in the game after the patch, and a horde of people all using fast stance spinning around and around constantly swinging.

Bah - after the patch, saber fights in JK2 are nothing like Star Wars Saber fights. The only thing they have in common is the lightsaber itself.

mIRC
05-08-2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by geronimo27


No thanks, I will remain here and continue complaining about what I dislike about the game which I purchased, and can no longer return.

I find it humorous that all the people who say they like the patch and cannot stand those who complain about the patch are the very same whiners that caused the nerfs in the patch in the first place.

It's unfortunate they spent too much time whining and not enough time learning the game and gaining skill, and now the game has been nerfed so that any New Newb on the Block can blindly twirl and spin their way into the high ranks of stats pages.

It's funny. Because of Episode II coming out soon I was rewatching all of the original Star Wars movies, and looking at the saber fights. They are true skilled fights. Then I looked at saber fights in the game after the patch, and a horde of people all using fast stance spinning around and around constantly swinging.

Bah - after the patch, saber fights in JK2 are nothing like Star Wars Saber fights. The only thing they have in common is the lightsaber itself.

Agreed, its also funny how the people that complain about us complaining just post one or two sentence statements that don't contribute to why the patch is good at all, only something along the lines of "Whiners go away." What a waste of time.

Jah Warrior
05-08-2002, 07:56 PM
:mad:

So you take a good game and just turn it into an unplayable night mare,

Iused to actually win on this game with out laming and with out exploiting the bugs.

I am going to get a refund on this game it is now completely differnet to the game i bought.

I can't even uninstall and get back on the serveres still running the old patch.

Sufice to say this is the last title i will be buying from raven.

Thanks for nothing

idlemind
05-08-2002, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by DarkAgent
WAAAAH! I can't spam DFA anymore!

WAAAAH! I can't spam Drain anymore!

WAAAAH! I can't spam Heal anymore!

WAAAAH! WAAAAAH! WAAAAH!

Grow up people. :rolleyes: The patch was put in to prevent spamming. It is totally playable - get used to it.

DA

:atat: :atat: :atat: vs:mad: Whiner
Have you even read our comments on saber combat? We're not complaining about DFA. It's like you're so excited to see DFA whores fall flat on their face that you fail to realize most of us were YELLOW whores! So we are complaining because they destroyed a perfectly good and pure medium stance and turned it into something only useful for backstab. Try and attack someone face first with Medium stance. just try it. I bet you'll see lots of pretty sparks and you'll do some damage to the other person, and they will do some damage to you. Everytime. There is practically no way to attack someone face first with yellow now and come out of it unscathed. i.e. all the skill for yellow is gone. The best yellow combo is to run forward and hold down attack. Does that sound like skill to you?

mIRC
05-08-2002, 07:59 PM
Also, people need to stop saying only the people who play the game only to win/"own" hate the patch. This is infact not true. The game isn't fun anymore and thats why we don't play the patched version.

Another thing, don't say it was to stop spamming because what people are doing now is just that on a much worse scale. I can easily dodge a DFA in the pre-patch but twirling fairies in the post-patch just mow you down.

JRA_Wolf
05-08-2002, 08:05 PM
You want the saber fighting in JK2 to play like the original trilogy? So....an old man (obi wan) standing there while vader kills him...and an untrained kid who swings his saber around like a madman and get's his hand cut off, then goes into a fit of rage and starts hitting on vader like he's mugging him with a baseball bat? Fun times....

geronimo27
05-08-2002, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by JRA_Wolf
You want the saber fighting in JK2 to play like the original trilogy? So....an old man (obi wan) standing there while vader kills him...and an untrained kid who swings his saber around like a madman and get's his hand cut off, then goes into a fit of rage and starts hitting on vader like he's mugging him with a baseball bat? Fun times....

In your attempt at wit and sarcasm you missed the point completely. And by the sounds of it you didn't quite grasp the movies either. At no point, even as an untrained kid, did he swing his saber around like a madman.

EekTheKat
05-08-2002, 08:29 PM
You want the saber fighting in JK2 to play like the original trilogy? So....an old man (obi wan) standing there while vader kills him...and an untrained kid who swings his saber around like a madman and get's his hand cut off, then goes into a fit of rage and starts hitting on vader like he's mugging him with a baseball bat? Fun times....

No that's not what he was talking about when he mentioned the original trilogy :

The Sir Alec Guiness Obi Wan vs. Vader saber battle is more along the lines of traditional Japanese swordplay....

It's highly methodical, and very few movements were wasted in the way they fought.

As for the battle between Luke and Vader, you said it yourself that Luke was infact untrained...and Vader took his hand on their first battle.

In an odd way, with MP dismemberment on with the current MP sabers, I've seen the occasional random swinger/spazzer get the very same treatment from skilled players who saw that opening + took it.

As fror their rematch in ROTJ, to me it seemed like Vader threw the second fight unintentionally (I guess it was supposed to look like Luke overpowered him leading to Luke chopping Vader's hand off, but on film it looked to me like Vader just all of a sudden went from blocking to leaning against the rail by himself).

Desslock
05-08-2002, 08:40 PM
I think the violin crew plays their instruments so much they can't hear any of the logical posts in the board. :)

[/sarcasm]

EX4R KUN
05-08-2002, 09:04 PM
I agree, the patch sucks. The Lightsaber is now officially the equivalent of an overgrown chopstick. I am bummed out, but oh well. I will just take my game back and trade it in for something else like dungeon siege.

I will re-purchase JK2 if Raven someday manage's to put skill back in the game with yet another patch. Before the patch we had Saber Only NF servers which allowed many of us this luxury, but with the Lightsaber the way it is now, even these servers blow.

geronimo27
05-08-2002, 10:53 PM
mIRC,

btw I meant to throw this in an earlier post. The name of my server is "Seattle Saber CTF 1.02". I even added a couple of new maps to try out, but I am keeping it at the old v1.02.

Stop on by and say hello ;)

fitzwilliamd
05-08-2002, 11:48 PM
:swear:

CENSORED!

I edited out a harangue against the 1.03 nightmare which included a barrage of profanity and some highly inappropriate 'heat seeking' Latin.

:angel:

failsaf3
05-09-2002, 02:04 AM
To avoid people who whines about how people 'whine', let's just say that UNPATCHED VERSION OF JK2 RULES!
Amen!
65 liked : 33 disliked so far on the poll...
which poll are you looking at?

pnags
05-09-2002, 02:43 AM
wow, this patch really doesnt change all that much. you should play cs and then you can see some patches that REALLY change gameplay everytime :(

Desler
05-09-2002, 03:40 AM
I've finally given myself enough time to test out this patch. The good news for me is I can still own in it without much trouble - going server to serverl without a loss. The bad news is, I hate it. Game balancing should come from small precision changes, not large thrown in your face changes that force you to change your entire style. Incremental changes would have been very much appreciated, instead, we get the style of the game changed around tremendously, and are forced to adapt. I think this is where most people have the problem. Adapting is fine - but some people enjoy playing a game a certain way, now they are forced to play another one or else revert to the earlier version which will eventually be invalidated for competitive gameplay.

I do like the fact that heal and drain can now be used with a lot of consequence - the consumption of a gallon of force power. I still think however that drain whoring is still alive and well. The problem with drain is, it takes 4 force power to use, and it will stop once you reach the minimum amount of force power needed to start it. Meaning, once I get down to 3 force power, it stops automatically. Instead, it should stop when it gets down to null, and only be able to start up again when you get 4 force power. THAT will eliminate the spamming. If I had a choice between drain or heal, I'd still take drain any day. Heal is fine - however, the amount of force needed to heal is horrendous, and I feel for light side users. Instead, how about a scale like drain, make heal a continuous power instead of a one shot power, healing like 3 points per force point, until the user runs out of force, only able to heal again when they have 4 bars.

The decreased damage (I think) from Kick is fine - however, I think the game would benefit from being able to have both styles - one jump or two. Two jumps is nice because you can kick in midair, but one jump rocked because it didn't make your hand hurt after hitting the jump button so much from kicking someone who insists on repeatingly charging at you. ;) Something I would -love- to see is kicking different areas having different effects. Kicking in the legs wouldn't do much. Kicking in the head would send your opponent down for a bit. While kicking in the back would knock em flat on their face.

Backwards moves are nifty - and making them hard to block is ok - BUT, the damage must be reduced. Again, incremental. Don't -kill- the damage, just make it like 3/4ths what it is. At the very least, give people with full health pools a chance to survive the attack. I personally have had little difficulty predicting and countering these moves, but your average player just doesn't have

DFA is still extremely useful. One of my old style techniques, while not -as- effective, still works well. The damage seems to all be there - but it isn't totally unblockable as it was before, which is why people think the damage just isn't there. It works well against some players, and others you shouldn't try it against unless you want a mouth full of saber. Good change here, no complaints or suggestions.

Lightning finally isn't totally useless with the heal and drain changes - and despite what many think, I don't think it's overpowered either. I have never used lightning at all in my career because I think force powers should be used as tools to aid your sabering, not as tools to damage your opponent. Lightning is fairly easy to dodge if you are quick, you'll likely get scorched a bit, but that is inevitable.

Overall, sabering style itself is what I dislike. It's more luck then timing now. However, I try to stay away from constantly clashing saber fight swing fests and concentrate on timed aimed blows. Quality, not quantity. This has always been my strategy, and every good person I have played against will always go for the timed blows as opposed to the swing like a madman style.

nattydred
05-09-2002, 03:48 AM
I love it


The title of this thread asks for people who dont like the patch to post here, but the poll is still very close. That indicates that as many peope like it as dont,or maybe more.

Its the same story in every game. One persons "playstyle" can also be an "exploit".

GileS__l7l
05-09-2002, 03:50 AM
The poll doesn't lie...

The majority of the votes say that Lucasarts/Raven need to take this patch back, man.

I could list things about the patch, many many cons, but the most weighty one is that IT ISN'T THE SAME GAME AND DEFNITELY NOT FUN ANYMORE.

Sheesh, why do companies do this? Spend more time testing it, you wankers, instead of getting the public hooked on a game and then TOTALLY altering everything about it!

Did you guys talk to Blizzard before you did this?

GileS__l7l
05-09-2002, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by The_Mormegil
The saber combat is so ****e now, all the whining gay playersl are happy with this patch but I want them all to burn in hell for being stupid. I really, really, really £ucking hate this patch.

im not gonna use it because its just not fun ffs, this patch doesnt even deserve any intelligient comments & I can't control the anger i feel for the patched version.

PATCHED VERSION = GOOD FOR WOMEN AND FAGGOTS

LMFAO

Man, I couldn't say it better myself. Mormegil, I will be running pure unpatched games on the MSN IGZ. Look me up, my username is the same :)

Here's to the ANTI-PATCH MOVEMENT!!!!

SaberPro
05-09-2002, 04:30 AM
Originally posted by GileS__l7l
The poll doesn't lie...


I demand a recount! Go Gore 2000! :lol:

Fear
05-09-2002, 06:16 AM
There are things the patch does good.... the bug fixxes, chat icon, new levels,(even though I don't play duel levels) and a few others. But what they did to the force powers and sabre battles just watered down the entire online game play. Before you had to react to someone or you could get killed fast.... not now. The sabre battles are too long and its not how good your are but how many times you can hit him to kill him now. And they might as well take all the darkside powers and thrown them out after how they stripped the punch out of them. Take Grip, its useless unless you have someone that does not use force. You walk so slow now when using the power anyone can just push there way out of it and half the time send you on the floor. Also they boost a power that was more than powerful already in absorb. Oh ya, they make healing cost more but who cares there are health packs all over and bacta. So the light side gets very strong and the dark side gets left with lightning.(which I hardly use unless they run from me) So I am left with force pull and push on the darkside. Well I am unpatching after this and if they don't fix this in another patch I will play it till I can't find players, then shelf it. But I will remember when it comes time to buy another game from them.

DarkAgent
05-09-2002, 10:16 AM
Why is it that everybody who hates the new patch has to be babbling crybabies? Why am I even reading this thread?

Here's a big clue for you all:

If you don't like the new patch then STFU and PLAY THE UNPATCHED VERSION !!!!

OMFG how simple is that?

DA :confused:

DarkAgent
05-09-2002, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by GileS__l7l
The poll doesn't lie...

The majority of the votes say that Lucasarts/Raven need to take this patch back, man.


[Sarcasm]
Ya, your absolutely right man. They should take the patch off right now :rolleyes:
[/Sarcasm off]

You don't think the whole title of this thread has anything to do with the results do you?

Title = "All who hate the patch, post here"

I'd say that this poll was just a litttttttle bit biased. Check out the OFFICIAL poll results in this forum for the UN-BIASED results.

(Currently 87 Like and 35 Dislike) :p

Have a nice day :D

jaded030
05-09-2002, 12:24 PM
First off, I will say that Raven's efforts to appease fans should be recognized and appreciated even by those who dislike the patch. Regardless of what was changed, it is clear that most, if not all of it, was due to the requests of players. So, big kudos to Raven for putting forth the effort to improve the game based upon player requests.

However, my personal opinion is that "the vision" of Star Wars and the reality of multiplayer online play (particularly Saber-fighting) have become confused and distorted. The problem I have is that, though the new changes to multiplayer (inclusion of the single player saber fighting system) serve to make saber fights look more "realistic" and more like the movies, actual gameplay shows a distinct lack of depth and strategy when compared to the former style. What they did was essentially trade gameplay for "the vision", and anyone who's played EverQuest can attest to the fact that sometimes you have to sacrifice "the vision" to create a fun game.

There are some great aspects of the new patch:

-DFA changes -- good changes, though I think simply altering the clipping problems and disabling turning while performing the move would have sufficed. As it is now, DFA is still a viable move in the right situation -- the way it was intended to be.

-Light stance changes -- Big big plus. Though the light stance in the previous style was not as useless as many believed (Backstab and the lunge/upward slash have always been excellent moves), the new changes are definitley welcome.

-Absorb -- This change single-handedly shifted the balance of power from Dark to Dark/Light. IMO the forces are now more balanced than ever.

There are also some bad ones:

-Blocking -- The parry system is good, everything else sucks. Constantly applied combos are basically the only way to mount a frontal attack. The "headless chicken" style of play just became the ONLY way to play the game -- players now will be classified as "players spamming combos" and "players spamming regular moves because they don't know any combos."

-Heavy stance -- The reduction in speed was unwarranted. The only change this stance needed (besides DFA tweaking) was a slight reduction in damage dealt. As it stands the stance is far too cumbersome to be used realistically in saber combat.


With all these changes, the game is still playable. The problem is, JKII MP before revolved around timing and strategy -- knowing when to risk a DFA (unless your opponent was a moron), knowing when to risk a pull/kick, and generally being able to handle yourself with a saber in regards to general defense and offense. Being a successful saberist in all situations required a mastery of all stances, forces. Now, being a successful saberist involves memorizing combos and repeatedly executing them, hoping a few slashes manage to get through the ridiculous blocking.

Desler
05-09-2002, 12:50 PM
A nice evaluation Jaded, although the best combos still lie not in saber combos, but in force/saber combinations. When your opponent swings like crazy, he'll often leave open a blind spot that can be hit even in heavy stance (with the forward-left quick swing). Same goes for those who jump around wildly trying to kick people, same move, just a little more aim. As I said in my post earlier - if LucasArts or Raven did this process a bit slower and more incrementally (making smaller minute changes instead of game changing changes), they could have weighed the reaction accordingly.

The true veterans however have no problems playing in this patch, though knowing most of their styles, I can say that they are probably having a lot less fun, because like myself, they prioritize precision, accuracy, and finess over spamming.

RGF_Derfla
05-09-2002, 12:52 PM
Pretty simple really. You bought the game. You decided to get elite. You did what everyone does you found the little tweaks in the game like the one hit in the toe death red stance move. You practiced it hard to perfect it. You owned. Then one day poof it's gone. You have to hunt for new things to practice. Your not sure you want to do that all over again. So you complain - don't upgrade - only play on the old servers where you own.

I never really liked the saber the way it was. I didn't ask Raven to change it - I just play games with forces and guns. Yeah they increased the ammo usage of my two fav guns because you could kill the saber guys easy enough. I'll just adjust...

So if you are truly good. If you can really play MP games - you'll adjust. If you just practiced to get kills on little things the programers missed then your outta luck.

Thr RGF has a CTF ver 1.03 server up 206.206.105.181. Come play if you like...

kDaWgG__l7l
05-10-2002, 12:06 PM
OK this is one dumbass patch that could have done better not being made at all and that person shouldnt have wasted time like that.

The spamming was a problem I would guess but why create something this stupid designed MAINLY to stop this but, yet screw so many more of the aspects of the game up? :rolleyes:

This just goes to show you how game maker just wanna screw you out of your money and make more by having bugs in it so you have to patch it and click their banners and blah blah blah.

They really do need to take this GHeYBie®™ patch back for the good of the people, I mean why play the game if it sux.....?

Xombie
05-10-2002, 12:19 PM
Just an FYI:
Developers don't listen to simple whining. They don't bother reading it. They aren't masochists.
Try using constructive criticism.

Chastan
05-10-2002, 03:46 PM
i hate all of you haters

MARKUSPRIME
05-10-2002, 03:47 PM
I own on 1.02 and 1.03. Regardless of what people defend 1.03 it is a noob friendly patch and lets the people with no skill live longer and do the lame ass auto blocking. Yes the patch sucks the force tweaks are good except lightning which is to powerful now and yellow is fubar. And no im not a noob or a former DFA whore i still own with the llama 1.03 system it just sucks now and is boring as hell. The truth hurts, you know it to be true hehehe!

-=VIB=- Wang
05-10-2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by SaberPro


Sounds like you're a racist, no?

Ummm.... neither Russia nor whiners is a race, dumbass. Russia=country
Whiners=pathetic dumbasses on the jk2 board who are crying b/c they can't DFA all over the damn place

Sounds like you're a moron, no?

Trannyn Covnant
05-10-2002, 04:33 PM
Ive read enough about the new patch and i refuse to download it seeing as how from what ive read it completely screws up saber combat.

:duel:

Chastan
05-11-2002, 02:54 AM
No, you mean you're gonna get screwed up in saber combat, cause you suck àss.

nemis111
05-11-2002, 05:52 AM
Would all the people think that the patch haters are whining because they cant spam dfa, STFU and STICK YOUR HEADS IN YOUR ASSES, THE FKING GAME IS BORING !!!!! IT HAS LOST SOOO MUCH OF IT"S RUSH, TENSION AND ABOVE ELSE FUN !! I swear it was the best Ive ever played online EVER, and now I FCKING HATE IT, I FCKING HATE IT. IT"S LIKES SOMEONE GIVING U PURE BLISS AND THE SUDDENTLY DECIDED TO GIVE YOU A FCK IN THE ASS. IT"S NOT FUN ANYMORE< GET THAT THRU YOU THICK SKULLS !!!!!! I"TS NOT ABOUT SPAMMING DFA< I"TS ABOUT THE GAME BEING A FKING WRECK NOW< BORING BORING FKING BORING!!!!!!

BRING BACK 1.02 !!!

BRING BACK 1.02 !!!

Jeffie
05-11-2002, 06:41 AM
The "Newbies gets kills easier" remark is the supidest thing ever!
This game is still a testing of skills vs skills no matter what you think, its always (almost) the best player who comes out on top.

Now the saber duels do go on ALOT longer i can gree with that, and it IS also harder too get a kill but these things just improve gameplay. I always wanted long even duels in this game not the ones pre patch that could be over in 2-3 seconds (although this still does happen)

What the game was about before was wait for the fellow to attack and then counter it, now you have too swing alot more but this does not make it a less skillfull way of playing as you will have too dodge alot more swings aswell.

I dont win as much as i did before, the game has become harder, but it dosent matter as i still have fun playing, alot more fun i might add.

This is a more balanced version of the game I have no idea how anyone can think differently, so what if you have problems killing the spinning N00bs just learn too counter it that is what have always been said when someone whines about the DFA or whatever.

I dont know about you but i bought this game because i wanted too have fun with it, not go out on servers just too 0wn people.

idlemind
05-11-2002, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by nemis111
Would all the people think that the patch haters are whining because they cant spam dfa, STFU and STICK YOUR HEADS IN YOUR ASSES, THE FKING GAME IS BORING !!!!! IT HAS LOST SOOO MUCH OF IT"S RUSH, TENSION AND ABOVE ELSE FUN !! I swear it was the best Ive ever played online EVER, and now I FCKING HATE IT, I FCKING HATE IT. IT"S LIKES SOMEONE GIVING U PURE BLISS AND THE SUDDENTLY DECIDED TO GIVE YOU A FCK IN THE ASS. IT"S NOT FUN ANYMORE< GET THAT THRU YOU THICK SKULLS !!!!!! I"TS NOT ABOUT SPAMMING DFA< I"TS ABOUT THE GAME BEING A FKING WRECK NOW< BORING BORING FKING BORING!!!!!!

BRING BACK 1.02 !!!

BRING BACK 1.02 !!!

that's exactly how I feel. it's not about no DFA, or about newbies owning, or about people being able to spam, or about backstabbing. it's about the saber combat feeling like I'm playing in mud and just not being fun anymore. Obviously I could get good at any game given adequate time. I just choose the games I want to get good at by how much fun they are to play, how much they draw me in. Quake 3 did that to me like no other game. It required total concentration at all times. JK2 did that for me UNTIL 1.03. Now I just can't really be bothered to play hard because I don't enjoy playing at all. I had my month in online gaming paradise, and then Raven out of nowhere took it away for no good reason.

Dahrsis
05-11-2002, 09:56 AM
The patch has good and bad sides. Problem is, the bad sides are on subjects, never to be touched. Spoiling the fun.

At first, (if i play with force on) i played Dark Side, i played Duels, i used Yellow stance and played (mostly) in NF duels. And i was good (subjective). You see from that, i was a saberist, so my main focus lies on Saber Combat.

This is no whining post. You want a solution? Repatch and incorporate a button to change between 1.02 and1.03 whenever you like. Make it OPTIONAL.

Main problem is, that the patch has good and bad sides as stated above. I could live without the good things, but i absolutly cant live with the bad things.

Good things:

-DFA isnt that variable anymore. BUT it could had been changed with a mere hitbox correction, so the buried saber wouldnt do full damage. Overexaggerated move from Raven.
-Red stlye has a 2 chain combo now. Not that easy to pull out in actual combat, BUT it gives at least a chance on tactic.
-The mere standing attack (attacking without pressing directional keys) isnt randomized anymore. I still cant see why there were people complaining about hat, but hell, i am deseperate to get good things to post about the patch :p
-New maps. It is a good thing, BUT its just an add, IT IS NOT THE PATCH. So why do you patch lovers field it as positive aspect for the the patch?
-Absorb has finally some chance on tactical deployment (if the drainer has his sound turned off).
-Chat boxes and finally the ability to redo player settings without loosing you place in the duel listing.

Bad things:
-The autoblock or "keep the nOOb alive" feature is way overexaggerated. The blocking prepatch wasnt the best but it worked to some extent. I wished they would have added "a bit" more chance on blocking, but this now, is just plain stupid. More movie like? Nope, because there were no headless chickens in the movie.
-Saber Throw in NF duels. WTF!! Grats Raven. You still dont know the way of the exploit. Optional, ok (like force powers optional? Nice idea but THIS is NOT in the patch).
-The killing of the Yellow Style. Have you ever realized that the range of yellow is only then at full extent when you spin? Guess not. The yellow style lacks now tactical deployment and range. There is now only ONE (useless) combo with yellow. Just holding the attack button is no combo peeps. I understand that this was done to boost the Blue style a bit more. Overexaggerated as allways. With the addition of one more special move to blue, this wouldnt have been neccessary. Just a special that can cover some area OR range at normal damage.
-Make MP like SP?? Hell nearly everyone who said that just wanted more special moves like the things the Reborn, Shadow Trooper and the named pulled on us. Did we get it? Of course not. We got a dead yellow style and autoblock (You played SP after this patch? Even in SP the autoblock isnt that extreme).
-More control. Lol, peeps. The moves and the Saber combat were perfectly under your control prepatch. No randomizing, nothing (only the standing attack). If you had trained a bit, you would have realized it. You have control now too, like before. But you loose it due to the high block chance and the resulting headless chicken combat.
-Heal and Drain. Gee i used the word too often, but IT IS OVEREXAGGERATED. Yes, both of them needed a nerf, but WTF, not that. Heal is a joke. Let Heal replenish about 35 HP for half the force bar. It would be still useful AND is counterable. Drain should just drain less. Not 200% but about 125% to 150% of the used force to drain someone. You could still deploy it, but it wouldnt be overpowered.
-Guns and the Ammo problem. I hate guns, but THIS was just plain stupid. CTF is just complete crap now, and the only weapon that would have a right to be nerfed was the Imp Repeater and his secondary fire rate.

There are still things to be changed, not even touched by this patch. Push/Pull kills are too easy and opens you without ANY defense. And the janitor action. Backstab, just shouldnt do that much damage, or make it blockable (but more difficult to block).

Rant about this, flame me or do what you like. But try to be constructive and think about it.

And for you who say "Just use the old version if you dont like the new". Think about what you say. All new things which will be released, will be based on the latest version. So it is our concern to have a good compatible game. And in my opinon, the game isnt very god atm.

Regards,

+ManusDei+[JDG]

Jubatus
05-11-2002, 12:08 PM
Didn't even bother to read the whole thread, but got one question:

Who's whining now?

Former DFA spammers, cuz they no longer can exploit bugged hit detection and have virtually still sabers doing max damage?

Oh no, they made the game more realistic and now you actually have to learn some skills to compete! What is the world coming to?!

Sure, there are some headless chickens out there, but to claim that all blue or yellow stancers are just swinging their sabers around hoping for a miracle is plain ignorance. I use yellow exclusively and I know what I'm doing. The far biggest reason why I'd sometimes lose to a 1.02 DFA spammer is cuz I'd lose my patience with this boring one-hit/evading spammer and make some foolish mistake.

And on the issue of crying 'whiner'; it's just plain sad to see people coming to boards to proclaim all having a complaint as whiners. It's easy to brand someone a whiner and abusive, cuz you're simply playing on the common perception that no one wants to be branded a whiner and they'll immediately back off or continue by forming a flamefest between the lot of you. A flamefest that will (virtually per definition) lead to nada and zip.

Calling whiner is what I call a shallow crowd pleaser. You see these often in political debates with an audience. When one party is backed into a argumentative corner they will use some witty remark or cliché, which the audience swallow whole and suddenly that party has the backup of the audience without really having said anything of relevance. They put themselves on top by belittling the opponent, not by counterarguing.

Now, while abusers of shallow crowd pleasing should be blamed more so should the audience letting themselves be manipulated by these shallow crowd pleasers.

Knowing that this post will change nothing I am

Jubatus

*Darth Vega*
05-11-2002, 12:58 PM
I like the new patch.
Why do I like it?
It makes the game more what I imagined it to be like.
When I first saw this game I thought it would be cool to replicate those long saber battles we saw in the movies. And it did it in singleplayer, but not multiplayer. Instead people would run forward and swipe and run backward till somebody died. That was gay. Now it's more like what I saw from the movies.
Maybe it requires less skill now...but you know what? I don't give a flyin fuc|< about all these l33t cl4n d3wds who have m4d sk1llz. I play cause it's neat. It wasnt neat before the patch, it is now.
Boo hoo your little league is gh3y now, lets all cry cause everyone cares about how good we are right? My heart bleeds.

And to those who disagree with me, may a pox of rancid blisters sprout on every open patch of skin hanging on your wretched sleleton, you worthless son of a lepritic whore and a french jahovas witness.;)
lol

flippo
05-11-2002, 06:42 PM
i love the new patch! not for it's content, but for what it's done to the 1.02 servers. ever since it's come out, the 1.02 servers have been a joy to play on. no more spamming DFA, no more drain/grip whoring, i love it! just skilled people fighting fairly and nicely.

THANK YOU 1.03 YOU'VE MADE 1.02 EVEN BETTER!

MARKUSPRIME
05-12-2002, 01:14 AM
Yes 1.03 sucks its noob auto block lame(whiffle ball bat) saber combat patch that lets no skilled players live longer . I still own their sorry arse tho.