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NewBJedi
05-08-2002, 07:07 PM
This thread has one golden rule:

Any personal attacks, name calling, accusations, such as calling people whiner's or noobs, on this thread, will get reported directly to a moderator - no questions asked.

You may discuss ideas, and the pro's and con's of opinions, facts, etc., but in no way may you discuss the person who is bringing forth those ideas, nor discuss the person who is critiquing those ideas.

NewBJedi
05-08-2002, 07:09 PM
I'll start off the thread with a question:

I'm just curious ...

Is it really a question of light vs. dark in JK2's gameplay?

Seems before the patch the best way to stop the lightening force spams was using another dark force - drain.

It seems with drain a bit nerfed, the lightening guys have a hay day without ever using a saber.

Drain 'was' a decent equalizer when people abused their push/pull, grip, etc.

To my understanding healing is also nerfed - and therefore lightening guys are even more powerful.

The only counter is absorb, but if you use dark forces you are screwed.

I believe even dark forces should have counter-balances within.

Thoughts?

NewBJedi
05-08-2002, 07:22 PM
Watch this thread die, because no one really wants a civil/rational patch discussion.

Sigh...

Darth Sun
05-08-2002, 07:31 PM
You forgot one important thing, absorb is your friend!
I played with lightning whores after the patch and I assure you, absorb is 100% effective against them no matter for how long they keep "lightning" you over and over again since you will keep recharging your force and have enough absorb to last several hours (actually for how long they have force power to cast lightning)

About the patch, I like it the way it is, at least for dueling.
I do admit its not the best for FFA since the huge ammount of deflections in FFA might (big might since in the end, it will depend on skill) get tough to kill people, but still very much possible if you know what to do and when to do whatever you are going to do.

NewBJedi
05-08-2002, 07:36 PM
That leads to my original question - is it really about light vs. dark?

What if you are a guy with nerfed drain and grip.

Absorb can't be your friend.

But another dark guy with lightening can sure be your enemy.

Now if the drain and grip wasn't nerfed, you could drain or grip that guy - especially drain.

It's not just light vs. dark, but also dark vs. dark.

In FFA your enemies aren't on one side or another, they're on both sides.

See the problem?

Vanor
05-08-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by NewBJedi
It seems with drain a bit nerfed, the lightening guys have a hay day without ever using a saber.

Drain 'was' a decent equalizer when people abused their push/pull, grip, etc.

Thoughts?

Well drain should still work in these cases, shouldn't it? I don't use drain so I don't really have a clue. But if someone is spaming lightning at me, I could use drain, draining their force mana even quicker, and healing up some of the damage done to me. Same with push/pull, they can use it but if they push and I drain... They won't be able to push as much.

Don't take this the wrong way please :)

But it sorta sounds like you feel that drain should be able to beat lighting/push/pull, rather then be a counter for it. It seems to me it still is a counter, just not as effective as it was. But again I don't play dark side, so I don't really know.

Heal was deffently changed, before you could heal 4 times, at 25pts a time, with a full charge of force mana. Now you can heal twice.

NewBJedi
05-08-2002, 07:45 PM
Well, if you are push and pulling back when someone is doing it to you, and some guy is lightening, there is no way to counter all the force spam occuring.

A good solid swift sweep of drain keeps it all in balance.

In my opinion anyhow ...

Now that can't happen with it nerfed.

What they should have done is just make it so that it takes longer to regenerate but you can still use the same amount.

Long periods between drains, but the same amount of drain.

I'm fairly certain drain - after the patch - just takes so much force you can never get much out of it.

Or they could have made it so it requires absolute full force to start using it - so you gotta save up.

But making it weak - I dunno, too much of a gameplay change.

pipsqueak
05-08-2002, 07:52 PM
Must say I've seen and witness the lightning tendancy, especially in FFA "moshpit" games. With sabers doing less damage, and healing made less effective, a few people fighting it out is more likely not to be at full health but alive nevertheless. Zap! and you've got yourself a few easy kills, passing by, never engaging in the saber combat. Countering it is rather difficult when also playing darkside [though not willing to "steal" kills in this manner]. As for duel, it's less of a problem. Then it's not some by-stander using it so you can counter with drain quite fast enough.

Well that's my $ .02

Jedi Legend
05-08-2002, 07:59 PM
One thing I'd like to see in the next patch is more options for server admins. They should be able to control the amount of ammo a gun takes and the amount of mana used by a force power. While this may lead to servers where there is bias towards one weapon or force power, the majority of the servers will try to keep things balanced or they will not edit the defaults at all.

They should also have a "guns only" option. This will satisfy gunners.

TheDarkSide
05-08-2002, 08:03 PM
In my own humble opinion, I don't think Drain was over-nerfed. Pretty much the only thing you cannot do with it now is fully drain your opponent right from the get-go. If you do start off with a drain right off the bat, you're both left with 4 bars of mana.

The trick to using drain is now only using it when you know your opponent is not at full force. In those situations, you can deplete an opponents entire pool and still have some left over to do what you want to with them.

I think Raven did a good thing in nerfing both sides ability to heal. I know I had become dependent on using Heal to get me out of sticky situations. Now I've been experimenting with putting my points elsewhere, and getting better at sabering people.

I think it's pretty tricky trying to balance a game like this. Not only do you have different force powers, but different levels of those powers, as well as server variable of how much force you're dishing out to begin with! Ack.

Throw on that, does light balance dark, does dark balance dark, does light balance light??? I don't see how it would be possible to balance all three. Oh yeah, don't forget light vs guns, dark vs guns, etc, etc.

I'm glad the game is as balanced as it is!! :D

TDS