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View Full Version : patch 1.03 (not a flame thread, so dont treat it as one)


tam
05-08-2002, 07:15 PM
ok, instead of complaining, say what they can do better :P stop being like "ITS RUINED NOW, I HATE IT" ok, we know that, say why and suggest how they can fix it.

second of all. for all the people who loved the normal mp combat, why not just aks them to patch it so u can pick between the two modes for dedicated server "do u want to have sp combat or mp combat". like that. but keep the working dismemberment, keep the chat boxes, and keep the double kick. and keep heavy the same as it is now. all the difference in gamre modes would do is change the yellow and blue to what they were before. red is fine how it is, and dont u think about complaining about that. anyways. i see a option to pick between the two as being a good idea. keep all the force the same too. everything else is fine but some people want sp combat some people want mp combat. thats it. simply fixed

ps. maybe add all the animations and taunts used in sp too?

Tozier
05-08-2002, 07:24 PM
Keep the double kick on walls, but make it a single kick on people, because it's ompossible to kick someone now.

SaberPro
05-08-2002, 07:27 PM
I thought it was easier..now you can jump toward someone coming toward you, and jump again to kick his face :)

NewBJedi
05-08-2002, 07:42 PM
Nice idea for a thread - glad I never thought of it:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51817

:rolleyes:

EDOX
05-08-2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by SaberPro
I thought it was easier..now you can jump toward someone coming toward you, and jump again to kick his face :)

I have to agree... I had the hardest time doing a wall kick or kicking a person before. Now with the new kick it is a little easier. You can't use it exclusively but it is a very useful tool.

Vestril
05-08-2002, 08:02 PM
Nice idea for a thread - glad I never thought of it:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthre...&threadid=51817

Eh, it happens NewB, actually it happened to me too...lol.

tam
05-08-2002, 08:12 PM
sorry newb, i didnt see it. but i made this topic mainly to voice out my ideas and see the reactions of others to it

geronimo27
05-08-2002, 08:20 PM
In my opinion, to make the game better, their next patch should revert pretty much everything back to the way it was, except fix the minor things, like exploits and bugs.

tam
05-09-2002, 12:13 AM
thats pretty much what i said...read it

NewBJedi
05-09-2002, 12:14 AM
I don't like the double kick.

I like the way it was before.

Solo4114
05-09-2002, 12:58 AM
Ok, first off, see my post here. (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=528996#post528996) Read the bit about ASE and being able to stick with 1.02.

As far as the kick goes, which I actually didn't address in the above post, I've had zero problems kicking people down. Just run up and double tap jump. It worked for me. Plus, I don't have to worry about accidentally backflipping over a step or something anymore, I just jump over it. I think the double tap adds a degree of control. I don't think they could really change it to double tap on walls, but single tap on people. I'm betting the game treats people the same as walls for purposes of jumping off them. It's probably more something like "obstacle". This is all speculation, though.

I do agree with the original point of this thread, though. I have no problem with folks who dislike the new patch. I have no problem with folks who want to discuss their dislike of it. I also have no problem with folks who want to discuss it HERE. I DO have a problem with folks who just write that it sucks, that Raven sucks, that anyone who likes 1.03 sucks, and that everything sucks worse than the suckiest thing that ever sucked. If you want to criticize, great, go for it. But please, put some thought into it. Support your arguments. Give examples. Follow logical trains of thought. Try to make your arguments as detailed as possible. And above all, offer suggestions for how to make it BETTER. Who knows, maybe you and the guy who loves 1.03 may NOT be all that far apart, and might be able to come to an agreement on how to fix the game. Then you could BOTH write Raven and hope that they change it the way you BOTH want it changed.

I've got a Muppet News Flash for folks who want the next patch to make things like the old version: It ain't gonna happen. Plain and simple. Raven did not waste time and money developing the patch just to revert things back to the old way. If you don't like the new way, that's cool. You don't have to play it the new way. You can still use 1.02. There are tons of servers out there playing that way. But I can guarantee you that Raven will NOT patch the game such that it is basically 1.02 without the DFA bug. That's just not gonna happen. They put too much time and effort into the patch to throw it out altogether in favor of the OLD way. Your best bet is that Raven may make a second patch which modifies the game where it is a mix of the two styles maybe. But I kind of doubt that'll happen too. Then again, who knows. Maybe they'd do it that way, and I'd like it. I think a server-option with preconfigured server settings (IE: oldway.cfg & newway.cfg) would be the ideal. Then people could tweak to their heart's content. I'd DEFINITELY support a patch that did that, and I actually always thought that was the best option.

tam
05-09-2002, 07:16 PM
amen brother lol

first sane post i've seen on these forums...ouch heh

anyways. back to the intent of this post. i really see only one solution that would make everyone shut up, basically in the next patch, make it so people can pick between sp style combat and mp style combat (for the dedicated server admin to determine) but leave everything else, the working dismemberment, the boxes, the kick, the heavy tweaking, the dfa tweeking. leave all those, just make there be an option

Vestril
05-09-2002, 07:44 PM
You know, someone on a different threrad made the point that he paid for an award winning computer game, and this isn't that game anymore. The completely altered the gameplay of multiplayer games, and have stated that the patch is mandatory. In essence they have created a whole new game--when you think about it that is kind of cheating the customers.

uteboy
05-09-2002, 07:49 PM
I'm sorry, but where have they stated that the patch is mandatory?

Aim
05-09-2002, 08:25 PM
I love the new patch :D :BumP:

tam
05-09-2002, 08:43 PM
vestril: wow "i payed to an award winning game that people spent years of their lives on, now i dont like it cause they fixed it for some people and ****ed it for other" oh boo hoo. instead of complaining about that point, say what needs to be fixed and make a suggestion for another patch. thats it, no flaming no extra lines needed. simple no?

and plz, stick to my suggestion as this thread is about MY suggestion, not about someone who wanted to buy an award winning game.

Vestril
05-09-2002, 10:13 PM
vestril: wow "i payed to an award winning game that people spent years of their lives on, now i dont like it cause they fixed it for some people and ****ed it for other" oh boo hoo. instead of complaining about that point, say what needs to be fixed and make a suggestion for another patch. thats it, no flaming no extra lines needed. simple no?

and plz, stick to my suggestion as this thread is about MY suggestion, not about someone who wanted to buy an award winning game.

I apologize for making a point. My point was NOT they need to change X, Y and Z back to the way they were. My point was that they took a game and utterly and completely changed it. This is not a whine, I did not say 'THIS PATCH SUCKS D00DZ.'

Quite honestly from that post you have no idea what I think of the patch--I was simply saying that it is a rather foolish mistake to change a game utterly and completely on the first patch, and a rather ignorant one as well.

Ahem, my post was not a flame. Yours was.

tam
05-10-2002, 12:56 AM
no, mine was a post mocking ur post, same with every other thread in this forum made by people. anyways. plz get back to talking about my suggestion as i do believe it would quell everyones complaints

Vestril
05-10-2002, 07:02 AM
no, mine was a post mocking ur post

Aka a flame--just because other people do it doesn't make it ok, and it certainly makes it ironic when you complain about me flaming...no one? by flaming me. I apologize for going a half step OT but it was an issue I felt should be brought up--rather than being rude about it you could have just reminded people what the topic was about.

second of all. for all the people who loved the normal mp combat, why not just aks them to patch it so u can pick between the two modes for dedicated server "do u want to have sp combat or mp combat".

Interesting idea, it would create two different gaming communities and would kind of be like a mod situation, all things considered not a bad idea--but it's already happened. Someone designed a system that allows you to switch from patch to prepatc at the click of an icon. I think it was UnrealJedi...

but keep the working dismemberment, keep the chat boxes, and keep the double kick.

Why keep the double kick? The chat boxes have their advantages and disadvantages, I suspect servers may be able to disable them though I'm not smart enough to know how. If they can't do that I think they should be able to because many people feel that the chat boxes open up a new range of cheapness (people with chat boxes becoming targets, etc)

nd keep heavy the same as it is now. all the difference in gamre modes would do is change the yellow and blue to what they were before. red is fine how it is, and dont u think about complaining about that. anyways

The game was balanced before. If you implemented the Red Changes without the yellow and blue, the red would be somewhat underpowered and almost pointless. Which is again why I like the idea of switching from prepatch to postpatch easily better than repatching it.

i see a option to pick between the two as being a good idea. keep all the force the same too. everything else is fine but some people want sp combat some people want mp combat. thats it. simply fixed

One set of arguments is simply fixed. Some people feel as though they took too much out of drain and heal, and that that left lightning overpowered, and it's difficult to disagree--lightning didn't seem to take as much of a hit as it needed to balance-wise. I think ignoring the current imbalances in the Force system would be a mistake, and I also think that ignoring the weapon issues are a mistake.

Some people say 'its a Jedi Game, don't play it if you don't like Lightsabers' but that's a bunch of bull, the original Dark Forces game was all about weapons. The Original SW trilogy was as much about blasters as it was about Lightsabers. Guns have their place and they were unduely weakened in my opinion--which is funny because I am primarily a Saberist.

tam
05-10-2002, 07:41 PM
ok first off, i like everything else in the patch, i also like the saber battle, but thats where most of the complaints are going to. i dont want to switch completely to the old version as i like this version with the working dismemberment, the chat boxes and the other wide arrange of things they changed. i dont care if it makes cheapness in the game, and red is fairly fine how it is now, its how it was meant to be when the game was released, no more heavy whoring. and thirdly, about the force issues, its better this way with drain and heal as before it really sucked, as drain drained half ur force in 0.5 seconds and heal...well matches could go on forever. atleast this way, making them almost useless its better as people can still heal them selves...people can still heal a bit and people can still drain a bit, but not on a large scale like before which i like.

and about lightning, its gotten fixed too to have a shorter range and smaller arc, so that its a staight line shot, so the person has to be a sniper to hit u, or just shoot like hell all over the place, and he has to hit u with the "bee line" as it is now, which is rather harder than it was before, so that DOES balance it out.

with the weapon issues, i dunno i never use weapons, they can do what they want with those

uteboy
05-10-2002, 08:17 PM
I'd still like to know where it says the patch is mandatory

tam
05-10-2002, 09:33 PM
uteboy: i got the patch and i like the changes they made, everyone is entitled to their own opinions

Vestril
05-10-2002, 10:52 PM
I'd still like to know where it says the patch is mandatory

There was a thread about it, but it's lost in the bowels of one of the forums, I can't recall which now.

uteboy
05-11-2002, 05:36 AM
Are you referring to this one:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51990

Note the response I made on that thread as well. I still think it's the most logical explanation.

It pays sometimes to read things without trying to assume the worst.

Vestril
05-11-2002, 05:47 AM
I never got the chance to read it, I had wanted to and I searched the Swamp and the Valley to find it again (I had no interest when I first noticed).

I appreciate your dragging this out when you clearly knew what I meant, having posted on that thread days ago. You could have said something like 'is this what you're refering to' and posted the link, rather than being a wee bit smart alacky about it. I apologize if that wasn't your intention, as I'm sure you'll tell me it wasn't--but that is how you have come across to me :).

This argument is also possible:

But they could have put it in the user agreement. By installing it you must agree to it. Not doing so is against the law. (in the same thread)

No matter the explanation my point still stands, Raven has stated that the patch is mandatory, for MP:

The use of this update is pursuant to the Software License.

All Multiplayer users must use Jedi Outcast version 1.03.

uteboy
05-11-2002, 06:38 AM
Yes you are right, I should have pointed to it in the first place, It wasn't my intention to be smart alecky about it. There was the posibility that something had been stated somewhere else, and I didn't want to corrupt that as a source by explaining what had already been discussed


The fact remains that you will only read the lines :

The use of this update is pursuant to the Software License.

All Multiplayer users must use Jedi Outcast version 1.03.

if you install the patch. Therefore it can't be mandatory simply because there may be many users who never know the patch even exists, whether or not they wish to install it ( especially think of users who are new to gaming, I know of a couple of guys who are still running the original release version of halflife, they only network it between two home computers and never have had the inclination to update).

Again if you have installed the patch then only 1.03 users can connect to you if you are hosting multiplayer, and this is what this line is referring to. Even if you have installed the patch and then reverted to 1.02 ( although this scenario only works 100% if you do it by deleting the entire jk2 directory and reinstalled from scratch ) then the file that contains this line is gone and you should no longer be bound to it.

Raven cannot force you to install the patch, therefore they cannot force you to be bound to that one line.

The main reason I've wanted to try and sort this out is simply because I feel that Raven has been getting enough bad press ( and maybe some of it is deserved - the jury's still out on that one ) but I do not believe they deserve having a reputation of forcing their consumers to do things that may be legally questionable.

Vestril
05-11-2002, 07:06 AM
I don't know...Raven's heart seems to be in the right place--they have definitely gone all out on customer support in this patch, it's just that they went a little too far, and made a few too many crowd pleasing decisions and wound up hurting the people that were utterly comfortable with the game.

Like most people I was a little unhappy with the hit detection scheme, specifically in the finisher moves, but beyond that I was fairly satisfied with the game. Then Raven dumps the game on its head in ONE patch?? This makes very little sense from any standpoint, and I think it's clear that it was overzealous. I was VERY satisfied with the pre-patch, but understood that a large chunk of people were unhappy with the state of the game.

When they changed the game around essentially as much as they could have, they gave credence only to those who were dissatisfied, and left those who were satisfied dissatisfied. They basically switched the people who were complaining lol. This is why you see those posts about how 'everyone is still complaining, even though they got what they wanted'

Not true, I didn't get what I wanted, and I wasn't really complaining very much, and now I am. Why? Because I am a dissatisfied customer, I do not like the product as it is, and especially now that Raven has shown that they are willing to bend over backwards to try to please their customers, my feelings that I should be appeased are not exactly unreasonable.

In any case, whatever their intentions the statement was fairly stringent, and any misconceptions on my or any other persons part as to their intentions are not particularly illogical.

Also, I'm glad you weren't being a smart a$$ :)

uteboy
05-11-2002, 09:00 AM
I can understand your points completely. I also understand most of the other posts it's just a shame that more people are not as articulate.

Without turning this into another 1.02 vs 1.03 thread I'd just like to say I'll be very interested to see what comes next.

Vestril
05-11-2002, 09:02 AM
Without turning this into another 1.02 vs 1.03 thread I'd just like to say I'll be very interested to see what comes next.

I completely agree, it should be very interesting, at the very least academically :)

tam
05-11-2002, 01:04 PM
atleast we know raven's intentions were good when making the patch, they made it from listening to complaints, so whatevers wrong with it comes from those complaints.

plz guys can u just discuss my idea as this is what the topic was about.

Vestril
05-11-2002, 03:22 PM
atleast we know raven's intentions were good when making the patch, they made it from listening to complaints, so whatevers wrong with it comes from those complaints.

plz guys can u just discuss my idea as this is what the topic was about.

I think we've done that to death...what else is there to discuss about it?

Areoch
05-12-2002, 07:21 PM
I think this needs a bump as its a pretty good idea and if Ravan implements it then people would be happy..if seperate ;)