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Ready Wan
05-09-2002, 03:05 AM
I'll admit it...I'm addicted to the grip and toss. It is challenging, and strategic (gotta keep some force around for defensive push/pull etc).

However with the patch, grip is so slow that its rare that you can get someone to the edge to toss them.

also,

it doesnt seem possible anymore to grip, lift, push. if I move so slow to the edge of a chasm, shouldnt I at least be able to grip and push them? push while gripping doesnt work any more.

I'm not ragging on the patch, except for this one point. I think that I can live with the saber changes....but playing dark side is rather silly now...what's the point?

NewBJedi
05-09-2002, 03:08 AM
Exactly.

I personally can live with new auto-block defense saber style - but the whole nerfing of dark forces is pretty lame.

And nerfing kick is probably the worst move ever.

Why not just remove the dark side all together.

At this point, it's pointless to bother using them at all.

Ulic Quel Droma
05-09-2002, 03:55 AM
I'll admit it...I'm addicted to the grip and toss. It is challenging, and strategic

AHAHAHAH thats the stupidest thing i've heard
it ISNT a challange nor is it strategic to grip someoen and drop them off a cliff, it just shows lack of skill

Homosexual Ewok
05-09-2002, 06:43 AM
Actually, it is more of a strategic move now because you have to wait for the opportunity (or lure them into it) when your opponent is close enough to a ledge to toss them. Since it is slower (the grippers walking speed) your victim also has much more of a chance of getting off a Force push before getting tossed. Besides, the "cannon" (grip+lift+Force push+wave bye-bye) still works fine. Even though it was cheap as Hell I used to use the "grip and roll" to slaughter new/slow responding players, granted I kind of miss it but oh well... One thing I have noticed about this patch and its changes is the fact that most of the complaints are coming from players that relied on one and one move/power only. Now forced to use all 3 saber styles for full effect or having to use a saber instead of simply relying on a couple of powers to finish off opponents is not a bad thing, it's a good thing.:D

Ready Wan
05-09-2002, 12:07 PM
The grip walk is more of a crawl. It should be a BIT faster....
as it is now, if you grip someone, not only can they break the grip with little or no effort at all, but you are a walking pinata for anyone with a saber or a gun to annihilate.

no defense at all. This change needs to be balanced a bit.

Vision
05-09-2002, 02:18 PM
I loved grip rolling, I prided myself on no one behind able to escape it hardly. I miss it too :(

NewBJedi
05-09-2002, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok
Actually, it is more of a strategic move now because you have to wait for the opportunity (or lure them into it) when your opponent is close enough to a ledge to toss them. Since it is slower (the grippers walking speed) your victim also has much more of a chance of getting off a Force push before getting tossed. Besides, the "cannon" (grip+lift+Force push+wave bye-bye) still works fine. Even though it was cheap as Hell I used to use the "grip and roll" to slaughter new/slow responding players, granted I kind of miss it but oh well... One thing I have noticed about this patch and its changes is the fact that most of the complaints are coming from players that relied on one and one move/power only. Now forced to use all 3 saber styles for full effect or having to use a saber instead of simply relying on a couple of powers to finish off opponents is not a bad thing, it's a good thing.:D

I rarely used grip myself.

But I found it very fun to fight other people's gripping powers.

Am I wierd? Well, probably, but I used to love to fight other people's grip and drains.

Now grip is so pointless, I dunno, it's like why bother having it.

The strategy was more interesting to fight grip than use it.

Drain was a fun one because if you see someone abusing push/pull or lightening you just give em a nice sweep of drain humility.

Oh well, this patch just sucks, let's face it.

With 1.03 you end up downloading a new version of the game.

I'm so much against drastic changes in gameplay I'm wondering who decided on all these major changes - LucasArts or Raven.

I'd be very dissapointed if it's Raven - I always thought they understood gamers.

If Raven really did make all these decisions in gameplay I may hold off or never buy SOF 2 and Quake 4 - unless they fix this damage to the J.O. community.

Ready Wan
05-09-2002, 08:59 PM
I am very impressed with JKO. I hope Raven takes the feedback from everyone and comes to a sensible conclusion when writing the next patch.

I dont think things have to change drastically, but obviously things DO need to be changed.

I wont comment on the saber blocking...which seems extreme, or the inability to turn while using the Strong special move (I take that back, I will comment here briefly....put it back the way it was, and lessen the damage...or at least allow a 1/4 turn in either direction. who stands still to be hit? it's just a launch and hope someone moves into your patch move at this point).

I concur that it's not as much fun since this patch. I've got a LAN planned for next week with 10 attendees....I'm just trying to decide whether to run it patched or un patched.

Patched we wont have as much fun, but we'll see the strengths and weaknesses of the patch more clearly since there is no lag.

unpatched we have more fun, everyone is used to the game, few if any spam the DFA or the absorb/drain.

How will the patched games work in a full weapon game? seems that the guns are not too usefull at this point....dunno, I cant seem to find any servers that have guns enabled.

sigh.

Homosexual Ewok
05-09-2002, 09:35 PM
Grip is still a great move, I admit I liked it a little better before (ever try grip+flip kicking an opponent to death?), but it is still very effective. Whenever I play NS Streets or any other catwalk/pit map I use it with great success.

The only gripe I have with this patch is drain.
If you want to increase the amount of Force energy it takes to use it so people don't run around every 2-3 seconds spamming it, fine.
But do not make it so the user (the drainer) almost wipes out all of his Force energy, gains almost nothing (health wise) for it, and hardly depletes any Force energy from the target opponent.
Drain pretty much now makes you a sitting duck. I am all for balance, but there should be a penalty and reward for using powers like this.

Darksider
05-09-2002, 09:39 PM
grip is great, in multiplayer grip + push never worked you have to drop them before you can push them, however hold em up high release grip and push - cant be resisted they go flying - CANNONBAAAAAAAAAAALLL!!

Its also no easier to escape if you know what you are doing, just turn while gripping them, their point of view changes and they cant line up a push (its REALLY hard) the only way to get out is absorb

and so you cant grab someone from the middle of the level and run them to a pit for a cheap kill , thats a GOOD thing not a bad one

Ready Wan
05-10-2002, 01:33 PM
I think just a few tweaks will make JKO outstanding again....as opposed to some of the drastic changes that took place.

leave the force powers the way they were when the game shipped, but if necessary, tweak them *slightly* in either direction (perhaps needing a bit more force power to perform, or a bit less damage, or a bit less effectiveness).

leave the guns the way they were....I didnt have any problem vs jedi or gunslingers...it was fun either way.

make the changes to the saber dueling, but not as much with the blocking (again, a small adjustment would have been just fine), allow the dfa move to turn 1/4 in either direction during the move, decrease 10% the damage for DFA and all backstab moves, leave the combo swings the way they are now post patch...very nice addition IMO.


there. The problems are solved. :D
no point in reiterating all these things as they are in so many threads... :\

as for my lans? 1.02 (non patch). More fun for everyone involved.

thanks for the discussion