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View Full Version : Patch whiners: Can you tell us WHY the game is more n00b now?


Nax
05-09-2002, 06:39 AM
Honestly, I see all these people hating the new patch, and I cannot see why. Didn't you ever get the least bit tired of the entire game mechanic being based on DFA? Didn't you find it a bit odd the there was a stance in the game that was ABSOLUTELY USELESS? I was appaled at the lack of maturity in the community reading some saber guides, advertising the heavy stance as the only real stance for "experts".

C'mon, haven't you ever noticed how the fighting game with only one "real" character for experts SUCKS? Where's the variety? Where's the lightning-fast adaptation?


In any case, DFA's still in there, for those of you who really know how to use it. Certian overhead swings can still go through block.

Give the patch a chance.

Nax

Way1ander
05-09-2002, 07:50 AM
About the patch..

* The new maps is good

* The other technical fixes is Good

* Totally altering the multiplay saberfights was very bad. They should have settled with removing the DFA-bug. As things are now, the saber is a watered down weakling compared to its predecessors... No skill is now necessary to avoid being killed, the autoblock feature takes care of that..

So instead of having a game where battles are quick and deadly, we now have a game where fights takes ages..

Original game: 4 Mediumstance hits to kill someone in mp was maximum.

1.03 patch: Now people can take up to 10 mediumstance hits before they die..

But i think Raven made a HUGE mistake in not having the same saberstyles and damagecontrol in both Sp and MP from the beginning..

EekTheKat
05-09-2002, 07:58 AM
No skill is now necessary to avoid being killed, the autoblock feature takes care of that..

Nonsense - you make it sound as though it's impossible to kill anyone in a lightsaber duel now. The skilled players are still killing the noobs and winning their matches.

Is it that difficult to put a little more effort into your saber battles?

Way1ander
05-09-2002, 08:07 AM
Its not hard to kill someone now.. It just takes longer to do it because Raven watered down the damagesystem.

Lightsabers aren't toys, they are deadly instruments. And that should be reflected in the game.

EekTheKat
05-09-2002, 08:16 AM
Lightsabers aren't toys, they are deadly instruments. And that should be reflected in the game.

In part, the reason why lightsabers are the way they are now is because of the DFA attack complaints that everyone was complaining.

Remember, if you can score a clean hit on someone you will still inflict full damage.

Remember back when the Lightsaber would kill you if you walked into a DFA attack after it completed? Well now damage at the end of a swing attack is now much lower than it use to be. IMHO this change was done mostly to address this.

RiverWalker
05-09-2002, 08:31 AM
ok, I just played some with the patch..

SUCKS!!

maybe it was the server, maybe it was lag, but it felt sluggish as hell. even the medium and light styles felt like it was dragging the lighsaber through mud or something...

I usually used heavy, but never intentionally DFA'd, and I usually used saber almost exclusively, now it just sucks.

edit: duh, forgot the thing I thought of to explain what I mean. single player sabering rocks, because it's fast, and complex, and you FEEL like you are kicking everyones ass. origional MP saber wasn't as good, because while it was still relatively fast, it was signifigantly simplified. now, it sucks, because it's got some of the complexity of the single player sabering, without the speed/smoothness

Perniciosus
05-09-2002, 10:50 AM
I just got out of yet another TFFA with the 1.03 patch and one of the people I was playing is a very good player who never DFAed to boost stats.

What did the game turn into? A ballerina match. Everyone was spinning to and fro under the fast stance getting all the side glance hits they could, stopping momentarily to regain their bearings doing slash after slash until they're close again and spinning. And again, after trying to plan, aim and attack, under all three saber styles, I broke down and became a spin whore too. Because that's all you *CAN* really do now. I don't care how many people say you can aim you attacks because, once the battle gets to close quarters, you simply cannot, and, let's face it, lightsabers aren't exactly distance weapons. It basically boils down to 'he who spins best kills first' and if you go into that battle in anything other than blue, you're asking for massive hits because by the time you've been able to move and swing your blade in yellow or red, the blue spinners have gotten up to you and spun around at least twice getting in all the sideswipes they can. That's supposed to be "aiming your attack"? In 1.02 I could aim my attacks and link them when necessary - definately NOT the case in 1.03.

People want to claim that the patch makes it more cinematic, but that's hardly the case. I don't recall seeing any of the saber wielders in any Star Wars movie constantly spinning around like a hurricane. Duels may be more cinematic, but they'll probably end up being just like what I just experienced, and have been experiancing since the patch came out: Spinfest 2002. The effects are more cinematic whereas the sabering is not.

So far, yellow and red have proven to be utterly useless unless you're using the special moves. Coincidentially, I am happy that the overhand smash got nerfed, but the rest of the stance is useless now because you've got someone or a group of people spinning around you and if you try to get off a strong swing, you'll be dead before the blade gets near them. Again, I ask: That's supposed to be "aiming your attack" and "more skillful"?

For two days now, proponents of the patch have all said that it balances out sabers and makes it require more aim and skill. When I brought up these exact same issues regarding spinners I kept getting told I'm not playing in the right places. Well, here I am, two days later, after having played all over - zone, multiple pub servers, a few private servers, gamespy - and the same problem exists. Sabers were far better before 1.03; players COULD plan their attacks, anticipate where their opponent(s) would be, make links and switch styles when necessary. Now it's mindless spinning and are by no means "balanced". If ever a devteam makes a program to display the mechanics of ribbon gymnastics, JK2 v.1.03 would be a great foundation to study.

Then there's the issue of lag. I've NEVER gotten a game patch that has increased lag in the game as much as this one has. This is a common complaint and even people who like the patch have agreed with me. My pings are a lot higher than they were before and conn interrupts happen far too often.

These are the issues that make the patch horrid for me. I don't say anything about guns because I'm not a big gunner or CTF player (sorry CTF'ers.. I still love my UT CTF, can't seem to part with it). I do like the force tweaks, however.

So, call me a 'whiner' all you want, but I never had a problem with the game prior to the patch and I never asked for anything to be changed; I knew ways to counter everything that people who didn't want to take the time to learn moaned about. I liked that MP sabering was not the same as SP sabering because that meant more to learn and more to do. The old MP style sabering was far superior for multiplayer use. Bring back the old MP style sabering and leave the effects in, unless the effects are part of the cause of the increased lag, in which case I say, screw the new effects.

Prowl lightstar
05-09-2002, 10:55 AM
At the end of the day these "spin whores" are utterly defenseless, they can't attack and block at the same time, just block untill you parry them away and bash them.

Perniciosus
05-09-2002, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Prowl lightstar
At the end of the day these "spin whores" are utterly defenseless, they can't attack and block at the same time, just block untill you parry them away and bash them.

True, but therein lies another problem. Say you've been able to block and parry them away, you go to give them a quick jab and, usually, just as you're about to hit them, they're off and spinning again. Ergo, after the parry, you must become a spinner to get any hits on them and attack them as they move.

This has been the case in every game I've played post-patch, sad to say. That's why it's just not fun to me anymore. Block, block, block, spin, spin, spin. Someone dies. Repeat until frag limit is obtained.

dravin1911
05-09-2002, 11:11 AM
Perniciosus, I'm not trying to flame you here but...Those things you mainly complained about, really aren't that big of a deal. You said that blue stance is the way to go now, and that yellow and red are useless..not true, I think people are in some kind of mindset that some type of attack/move is always "more powerful" or "better" than another one..it's all about situation..and if you're limiting yourself to one style in duels, you're really handicapping yourself (more times than not)...I have seen people spin around a lot with the lightsaber, but if that was the only tactic someone used, they'd probably get made fun of so bad on the duel server that they would leave...Another thing was the ping, you said you've never played a game that has lagged as much as this one, haha well congratulations, you should consider yourself lucky. This game has some very solid netcode, on a reliable engine...You want to see what lag is all about, go play Global Operations or Aliens Vs Predator 2. I dunno, I was just wanting to say that those problems didn't necessarily have to do with the patch. Take it easy!

Solo4114
05-09-2002, 11:14 AM
Riverwalker,

Personally, I've had no problems with the speed of the game, though I want to make sure I understand what you mean.

By speed, do you mean how fast the player moves, or how quickly you kill the enemy?

If you're talking about the game being sluggish because it takes longer to kill a guy, then yes, it's slower in that sense.

The actual sabre moves themselves seem just as fast as SP to me. The one move that might be giving you trouble is the medium stance spin moves. You can't really spin indefinitely now. After a certain point, you'll complete the combo by doing a sort of "finishing spin" where you'll do a slightly slower swing than the usual spin. THAT move is slower than the others, definitely, but that was in the original SP gameplay.

I think you may have been on a laggy server that night. Give the patch a bit more time. You may get used to it and enjoy it. :)

RiverWalker
05-09-2002, 11:19 AM
well, other than that I seem to somehow accidentally hit that finishing spin move thing way more frequently than before, it feels like trying to move underwater or something... I'm not sure, maybe that server had turned down the game speed or something, but it was definitely not enjoyable,

force energy seemed to hardly last at all, doing anything.

Jedi-Bert
05-09-2002, 11:36 AM
if you actualy HIT somone with your medium stance swings, full-on, they do MORE damage than before, the reason is that you are still trying to hit them with the end of your swing, get in close, be aggressive, and take some real big chunks out of your opponent and you can end saber fights just as quickly


trust me ;) sabers are just as powerfull, its just that your OPPONENTS saber is also more usefully