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View Full Version : While people are complaining about 1.03 sabers...


EekTheKat
05-09-2002, 06:53 AM
People who are actually playing the 1.03 game and adapting are getting better + better. I've had the pleasure of dueling quite a few *excellent* saberists on FFA games that quite frankly have easily made my post patch experience some of the most fun I've had with this game yet.

The game has not turned away the "skilled" players by far. Heck with every 1.02 "skilled" player complaining about how much 1.03 sucks there's a 1.03 skilled saberist out there learning the ins and outs of the new game.

There's now a new generation of 1.03 skilled players that's all. Some of them are actually on this board...but I think a good chunk of them don't bother posting on this board...

rut-wa jodar
05-09-2002, 07:30 AM
As the mighty :yoda: once said: "you must alearn what you have learned"

C]-[33S3/\/\@N
05-09-2002, 08:40 AM
i think you meant relearn d00d :biggs:

D.L.
05-09-2002, 08:41 AM
I think you meant unlearn ;)

Pvt_Dancer
05-09-2002, 11:37 AM
I think you're right.

DarkAgent
05-09-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by EekTheKat
There's now a new generation of 1.03 skilled players that's all. Some of them are actually on this board...but I think a good chunk of them don't bother posting on this board...

I don't think I would call myself skilled. When 1.02 was up I always finished about middle on the server list. Not the best player and not the worst, but hey, I had a lot of fun playing.

Now that 1.03 is up, I'm finding that I finish in the bottom half of the server list. But I'm still having loads of fun playing. I will never "OWN" the FFA, but I'm getting better... and having a great time.

Its too bad that for some people, winning is the most important thing.

DA :rolleyes:

Corpse
05-09-2002, 05:15 PM
i would post here more.....but im too busy playing this wonderful game :P

the duels are alot more fun and intense, i find theres alot less cheap crap and more skill being put out there.


Kudos to raven for making an already good game MUCH better

(god i swear every post ive ever made is about defending this great patch O_o)

Aegis
05-09-2002, 05:19 PM
I think the only aspect of the game thats really improved (and marginally at best) is the duel. The blocking (though it is still dominant) is a nice feature, and I like that they made the light stance what it was supposed to be. In the process, though, and this is what is turning me off the game, they nerfed the medium stance (slowed it down, removed it's spin which was the best counter move in the game.) and generally made it worse then both other stances.

NewBJedi
05-09-2002, 05:27 PM
Let me put my gripes in issues of importance:

1. Kick is nerfed. GRRRR!!!! It's next to impossible to do now.
2. Drain is nerfed. Hurray more other force spam!
3. Grip is nerf - I just loved fighting grip!
4. Saber defense too high - the attack is actually better.

Okay thank you, have a nice day.

Tozier
05-09-2002, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Corpse
i would post here more.....but im too busy playing this wonderful game :P

the duels are alot more fun and intense, i find theres alot less cheap crap and more skill being put out there.

Kudos to raven for making an already good game MUCH better

(god i swear every post ive ever made is about defending this great patch O_o)

How is getting every swing you make blocked fun? You're right people are doing less cheap stuff, but I can hardly land any medium stance attack. Plus when it's blocked, your swing just stops, or the saber gets flung into the air above your head. Before, you'd block and assumong you still had down the attack buttion, you'd spin aroung attacking from the other side. I wish that they hadn't castrated the medium stance so. Not only is it slower, but has a much smaller arc. I've watched a group of 4 Jedi Master bots, all using medium stance take upwards of 2 minutes to finish each other off.

Plus some of the animations are buggy. A messed up kick still has you bounce off, but revert to the standing animation.

Raven tried too hard.

TheDarkSide
05-09-2002, 05:34 PM
Aegis -

Reread ChangKhan's first post in the Sticky thread up at the top here in the Valley (I think it's titled Details of the patch), he goes into detail about exactly what was changed in the saber system. He even made a point about the yellow stance, that the only thing you could now NOT do was keep chaining the same attack. You can still spin with it, and chain plenty of attacks in the yellow stance in v1.03. He went through all the things that *he* changed in the saber system, and among the things he debunked is that the medium was slowed down, or had its damage lessened here is the quote:

"Medium Stance:
Medium was not meant to be the whirling dervish style, so it was made so that, if you do the same exact move over and over again, you cannot chain as many attacks as if you mix it up a little. "Spinning top" fighters should use fast style. This is the *only* change to medium style."

TDS

Silent Wolf
05-09-2002, 06:29 PM
some idiots never learn eh darkside.

Aiee
05-09-2002, 06:42 PM
I find it strange that people say every attack gets blocked. I have no problems whatsoever making my attacks connect and do damage. all it takes is a little timing and patience to get used to the new feel.

TheDarkSide
05-09-2002, 06:42 PM
eventually they learn, but what they don't do apparently is read. I suggest everybody who is convinced "this" or "that" was done to the "X" stance re-read ChangKhan's post....here's the link for the lazy.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51296


It's a rather large thread now, but luckily ChangKhan's the one who started the thing so you only need to read the first post. In case some of you aren't familiar with him, ChangKhan is the gameplay programmer for JK2 and the man who devised and implemented the saber system into the program. He KNOWS exactly what was changed, because he is the guy who CHANGED it.

Here's some choice quotes:

"In general, some work was put into making sabers more likely to hit - both the other players and their lightsaber. This was not so much a problem with strong attacks because they are so long and slow, but often medium and fast attacks would miss or pass through. "

"The back-flip off a wall/opponent was changed into a double-tap. This was mostly done because it was frustrating to try to get over a small lip and end up back-flipping off of it. In combat, you can still kick someone and knock them down with this move, but you have to do a double-tap. Also, it was noticed that the strong style was completely vulnerable to this move because of the long wind-up time of it's attacks. A somewhat skilled jump-kicker could always knock down a strong style user (often you could not see the kick coming). So the jump-kick was made to not *knock down* a strong user who is in the middle of a swing. It still does damage and you still flip off them. "


and MOST IMPORTANT IN MY OPINION, this is at the end:

"Regardless of what you feel is different or other posters say, these are really the *only* changes to saber combat...

We tested the new saber tweaks pretty heavily and only stopped when we felt that the three styles were well balanced with each other."

TDS

Jessicka
05-09-2002, 07:17 PM
kick sucks now. Good thing i got a mouse that rapid taps 2 clicks as 1 click so it's still like doing the old kick. Unfair to other players though. Should just return kick to the way it was.

flippo
05-09-2002, 07:49 PM
People who are actually playing the 1.03 game and adapting are getting better + better.

inconcievable. you can't get better at a game as simplified as this has become. sabers are ass, blocking is ass, you are ass. it still amazes me that you people think this game has gotten better. the problems it did fix created new ones. the problems it fixed have made the game newbified. and slowly, but surely,
all the 1.02 servers are dissappearing. it's been a fun month. these are dark days, indeed.
i'm through being constructive because now i have basically given up due to the raven e-mail. wtf

flippo
05-09-2002, 07:52 PM
also regardless of what changkhan said he obviously didn't include everything since there is no mention of light stance's huge speed up. makes you think what else he forgot to mention.

put that in your pipe and smoke it.

steeef
05-09-2002, 07:55 PM
i hate to repeat this, but :violin:

seriously, i've adapted somewhat to the changes, and i feel like i'm a better player. i've had some very intense duels, and overall i enjoy duels more in 1.03 than 1.02. you're entitled to your opinion, as are we. sorry to see you've lost your patience with raven, because i sure haven't.

Sartori
05-09-2002, 08:22 PM
automatic block still sucks!

they should have taken a clue from nearly every successful fighting game and made block something the user had to diliberately do.

perhaps a small level of auto blocking if your saber was already in the right position, but this "i can block behind my back without turning" is just stupid.

if your attacking, you cant block, if your blocking, you cant really attack. parry-riposte is a 2 step action.

not in this game.

sigh.

steeef
05-09-2002, 08:30 PM
i'll admit, i think they upped the blocking frequency a bit too much. although, it just makes it that much more challenging to get a good hit in.

flippo
05-09-2002, 08:42 PM
the violin. what an original retort. anyway, i like how you say i'm entitled to my opinion, yet can't stand to hear it and feel the need to lash out.

also, i'm sure you're much better steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeef, because sabers now benefit from your style of play: mindlessly swinging at anything that moves.


:newbie:

Aiee
05-09-2002, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Sartori
automatic block still sucks!

perhaps a small level of auto blocking if your saber was already in the right position, but this "i can block behind my back without turning" is just stupid.


You know, the backwards block is really just the opening of a normal, swing. If you stand still (or run either forwards or backwards) and hit swing in medium or strong stance, your character will perform an overhead swing. The overhead swing starts with the character quickly pulling his/her saber over the head and behind the back. The fact that saber collision detection has been upped means that this cna now be used as a blocking maneuvre. It is a conscious choice by the user to execute the backwards block, most people just don't realize it. ;]

steeef
05-09-2002, 10:33 PM
i didn't say i couldn't stand to hear it. also, since when have you seen me play?

Aegis
05-09-2002, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by TheDarkSide
Aegis -

Reread ChangKhan's first post in the Sticky thread up at the top here in the Valley (I think it's titled Details of the patch), he goes into detail about exactly what was changed in the saber system. He even made a point about the yellow stance, that the only thing you could now NOT do was keep chaining the same attack. You can still spin with it, and chain plenty of attacks in the yellow stance in v1.03. He went through all the things that *he* changed in the saber system, and among the things he debunked is that the medium was slowed down, or had its damage lessened
I did read the post, and I understood it, but the fact remains that the medium spin is basically no longer there (I know, I know I worded it differently before). Considering before the patch, the spin was easy, and effective. One could pull it off as a quick counter, and thats what I did several times. Granted people tended to spin like tops, but what do you think people do in light stance now? Also, I'm not talking about chaining the spin (as I know how ridiculous I would look), I'm talking about the exact method you have to take in order to get the spin into effect. It is too complicated to pull of in the middle of a heated duel (and by this I don't mean difficult, but that it's harder then it should be). When paired with how slow the stance is now, it's a useless attack, paired with a now useless stance.

RedXian
05-10-2002, 12:07 AM
I've only had the game for a few weeks, I played a little of SP but I mainly played MP so I got used to the sabre battles there. When I actually got further in SP to where I foughts the Reborn, I was amazed at how cinematic the sabrefights were. I kinda wished the fights were more like that in MP. I got my wish and I'm happy with the result.

But there are complaints being made by people (some valid and some not so valid) that I have a few comments on.

First of all, the double jump to kick. I have no problem with this, jump is a key for me. But it was annoying in SP when I was trying to jump over a crate and I kept backflipping. The double jump to kick was a good move, it gives you more control over when you want to kick. And if you're having a lot of problems kicking because you have jump bound to the mose button and you can't double click fast enough, then bind the double jump to a key. Simple as that.

Second, duel fights were taking longer and some people complained that they had to wait 15 mintues for a fight to finish. Well, you know it is possible to put a time limit on the fights. Just set it to 5 minute duels, no more 15 minute waits for one duel to finish. Oh, what happens when duels keep ending in draws? Well there are plenys of moves, styles, force powers and weapons out there for you to creatively come up with new attacks and strategies. Because really, it's the creative players who come out on top when facing a possible stalemate.

Finally, there's the increased "auto-blocking". I use the quotes because it's not really blocking in the true sense. Yes the attack was block but it was an offensive block. ie. Your attack block their attack because you were both using the same attack. If you slash from left to right and you opponet does teh same slash (from you POV they are slashing right to left) the sabres will clash when they hit the middle. That's why people seem to be autoblocking you attacks when you are behind them, you saber is clashing with theirs on their backswing. If everyone did the "whirling dervish" spin attack, then there'll be a lot of sabre clashing. This makes the move less effective and give incentive for people to discover more effective moves.

That's all I have to say for now. Heh, pretty long post for my first one. :D